Being The Third

Mignonne

New member
Hello,

I had written a really in-depth introduction but I guess my session timed out and I lost all of it, perhaps it is for the best.

I am a woman presently in a V or an... N? I am not even sure.

Though I can see it being contested, in reality I am the secondary parter to a couple in a well established relationship. I am only involved with the man, though I made a strong attempt at being attracted to the girl but just, can't.

I have been in poly-type relationships before, and have had monogamous relationships with both sexes, I just don't find her attractive on any level. She is also going through a quasi-delayed-adolescent phase which makes it even more impossible for me. Still, I do like her as a person, in a friendly sense, and we have gotten along fine with the exception of some hiccups.

I was absorbed into the triad by very unconventional means. I was a friend of the male, his confidant for the better part of a year when my own life collapsed. Suddenly it was made known to me that he had feelings for me and wanted to help.

I was not keen on either idea, and refused to consider it for a long time, besides, even though they were of legal age they were a lot younger, and he already had a girlfriend. In addition, what they did outside of the relationship was three-way type stuff w/o much emotion. Having experience with that, and finding I did not want to be involved with that sort of thing, I really resisted any emotional connection with him.

But the dynamic between he and I had already changed, and an emotional rollercoaster followed where I was being pulled in a direction I did not want to go. I eventually had to lay out that if anything between us did happen it would have to be a lot more than just a tryst. I wasn't going to be three-way girl.

Thus a romantic affair began and I introduced myself to his girlfriend. It was easy enough, but I didn't really know what was going on. He was given the "green light" to delve into a deeper relationship with me and she was given the same.

As I said, though she liked me quite a bit and I attempted a romance with her, attraction and feeling never truly developed for me. She does still refer to myself as her girlfriend to a select few that know what's going on, but I think of myself more as a co-partner... whatever that means, I think I just made that up. lol

I should mention that although I have experience with poly relationships neither of them do, but outside our chaotic lives we get along famously. I have many things in common with her, and even more with him. He and I have similar histories, experiences, upbringings, principles, and hobbies. Sometimes it gets a bit creepy, but overall we make a strange but handsome couple... if only we could really be one.

I'll be upfront, I don't like being the secondary partner. I feel sort of blindsided as I entered into it at a very tumultous and vulnerable time.

As I become more and more connected to the man I have begun wanting things I can't have. Realizing that I will always be the secret friend among their families while they openly speak and show affection to one another. I have never really had a family and when I hear him talk about his, I ache to be a part of that. I want it so bad... but they'd never accept me.

In addition, over the course of this entire year, I'll lie in his arms and think "Wow, I could actually maybe spend the rest of my life with him... " a thought I've only had one other time in my life (I don't love easily). I dream of being his wife, of having his children, and being a part of his family.

All the things that my monogamous relationships offered. It is also painfully obvious that if there was a good enough reason, my inclusion in the relationship or its status could be renegotiated. Not so much has been said, except for once by the girlfriend, but you just... know.

I deeply love this man, but I pine for a primary partner of my own. Problem is, I want it to be him. But there will be no marraige or familial inclusion, I will never have the status his established partner has. I really feel like the outlier.

There are a lot of other things going on but I'm trying to stay on topic.

Yes, I have thought about seeking a fourth, his girlfriend has people she sees on the side now, but I find the whole thing detracting and not adding. He does a bit of his own flirting on the side as well and I'm just sitting here thinking "Okay, what am I here for?" sometimes.

I know he loves me and I love him, I don't want to leave him esp after he put so much work into establishing a relationship with me in the first place. But it just breaks my heart how this all feels, I'm not "poly," at least it's incredibly depressing having secondary status. I have long bemoaned being the third, just from personal experience and observation.

I feel lonely and wishing I could potentially have this life with him. I do not want him to leave his girlfriend, I just wish I could have what she could have with him too without the painful long process of trying to find another...

God, it makes me cry just thinking of it.

He doesn't want to lose me and I don't want to leave him, he isn't perfect, but for once in my life I have maybe met my match in strength, character, endurance, and so much more.

We have had a rocky ride, and still yet to come, I just don't know how to reconcile all of these things.

*Deep breath* Thanks for listening.

-M
 
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Why is it you can't have more? Many people in V dynamics split their time between two partners. Why can't he tell his family about you? Why couldn't he live with you part time? Marr y you? Have a child with you? If he wants to then there is absolutely no reason he can't. Sounds like his other partner and you have a good relationship, thats a good start. She acknowledges that you are a co-partner, that doesn't sound like she views you as a secondary. Don't be afraid to express your desires ad work toward making them a reality.
 
I understand and agree with your last comment: expressing desires and whatnot. But, well some of those things can't happen yet even if I addressed it, and there are reasons why the families wouldn't be welcoming. Most families, that I know of, except for the very liberal usually aren't. Neither of their families is really in favor of their support of me anyway, so that would just be another problem.

It is something I've always wanted though...

He does live with me part time, he has done a lot to get us where we are and I don't want to ask for more, I don't want to bleed the man. Besides this would be in the future. If we got to that point. They didn't sign on to be a future husband to me or a father. I am just not sure what to do except talk about it.

I don't know who to go to for help.
 
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I sympathise - it sucks...

I understand and agree with your last comment: expressing desires and whatnot. But, well some of those things can't happen yet even if I addressed it, and there are reasons why the families wouldn't be welcoming. Most families, that I know of, except for the very liberal usually aren't. Neither of their families is really in favor of their support of me anyway, so that would just be another problem.

It is something I've always wanted though...

He does live with me part time, he has done a lot to get us where we are and I don't want to ask for more, I don't want to bleed the man. Besides this would be in the future. If we got to that point. They didn't sign on to be a future husband to me or a father. I am just not sure what to do except talk about it.

I don't know who to go to for help.

Dear Mignonne,

I really do sympathise I'm in the same situation (secondary to my primary) albeit the hinge is a bi woman.. All those feelings of wanting more, wanting exclusivity I feel and it drives me crazy at times... But, this woman, my Goddess is the person I love because of who she is, and who she is is someone who also deeply loves her husband, her primary. Also, the me she fell in love with was not a needy possessive relationship breaker, but a strong independent woman. Soooo, I don't know if it will help but I'm trying to address MY issues of jealousy and there's lots of great reading on that. I'm also exploring getting some balancing relationship - a new primary, one or many secondaries - kinda why I'm here... That a help? Let me know...
 
Greetings Mignonne,
Welcome to our forum. Please feel free to lurk, browse, etc.

I'm sorry to report that I don't know of any resources that could get you the kind of primary privileges you are aching for in this relationship. Even if the man broke up with his "first girlfriend" leaving just you and him, there's still the problem of getting his family to accept you. Family acceptance isn't even something you can always get, poly or monogamous; I know that by personal experience.

You can of course negotiate for things that would get you closer to the life you want with this man, and he (and his first girlfriend) might be able to accomodate you. But if you're looking for the white picket fence where everything is traditional and harmonious and monogamous and normal, I don't see how you can get those things in a polyamorous relationship like this. At some point you may have to choose between that white picket fence and the man you love. I don't think you can have both. Probably not what you wanted to hear, but I don't even know how to pretend otherwise.

So are you going to have children with this man? What are your plans? Would you want to live in the same house with him and his first girlfriend? Would a commitment ceremony help?

If someone else has better ideas than me, that would be great; I fear my contribution is not quite what you were looking for. :(

I hope your dreams come true in spite of it all.
Sincerely,
Kevin T., "official greeter"

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Welcome aboard!
 
AyFondKiss: Thanks for your reply, it would be nice to just have some friends who are in similar situations to talk to. Maybe that is what I'm looking for, help-wise. Just loving, understanding individuals. :*). I have given much thought to adding another, a different male primary (or an older woman), if I felt another hinge would balance us out, but Igor does not like the idea of other men being involved.

In fact, one of the rules he has with Babs, is that she (and he) can fool around with women, but no men. Thus far, he and I have no such rules other than I require knowledge if he sleeps with anyone aside of her for health reasons. I don't know if I have any "veto power" (that's what they call it) in the triad at all. I just know he really would not like it, he has said as much, but I am still building on what he and I have and other life issues. When/if all that gets to a place where I feel I would like another, I will cross that road. For me, it's still an eventual option.

Kdt: No worries, as emotional as my OP is, I am pretty tough and can take the straight forward truth. I know that being open and welcomed into his fam would be unlikely if not impossible, it's just I like them so much... I tend to get rejected by other people's families too, so it's just a thing I yearn for especially when I see how much they like Babs.

I would never want him to leave her for this, just to clarify. I came later, she was first. That would be an awful thing for me to wish for.

I don't really want the white picket fence where everything is traditional, I mean we are already breaking that. Marraige has been discussed and he seems open to the idea, but I am not pushing for it now. It is more of an eventual thing, wondering if that was an option. He and his girlfriend are... well, when I say "girlfriend" they are obviously not married, not even engaged.

I suppose it would be weird if he married me (legally) and not her, and I don't expect that to happen. I also don't want to do anything either of them are uncomfortable with. I know it seems I want everything but I generally allow her precedence over myself unless it is urgent.

Our end goal is to all live together, and providing my health was good enough, children are also potentially on the table. He does not like the idea of my being involved with another man, so atm he is pretty open to discussing these things.

One thing that makes me a bit nervous is that Babs is infertile, I am not. So... if in the future we did, I can see her struggling with that like I am presently struggling with her family-accepted open girlfriend status.
 
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Well, I think it is a complex situation, and you guys will just work things out a little at a time. The only regret I have about poly is that our society (in general) isn't ready to accept it yet. Heck people are still fighting over whether to accept same-sex marriages. Sad when people can't be happy for other people who love each other. It's like making the issue way more complicated than it has to be, you know?
 
*I dream of being his wife, of having his children, and being a part of his family."

I met my partner after he had a wife and family. He wants me to have all of those things.
 
Well, I think it is a complex situation, and you guys will just work things out a little at a time. The only regret I have about poly is that our society (in general) isn't ready to accept it yet. Heck people are still fighting over whether to accept same-sex marriages. Sad when people can't be happy for other people who love each other. It's like making the issue way more complicated than it has to be, you know?

Yes, I think if it was accepted I would be having less of an internal struggle. The road to equal rights for monogamous LBGT has come a long way, and I am glad for that. But It is rare I have ever seen anything on the polyamory (gamy/andry) front. The last thing I saw was an overturn in Utah (?) where it was ruled that cohabitation did not break the law.

I am unaware if there is a movement for us otherwise; it has been a long time since I have been in a poly relationship.

I don't worry about us getting in trouble, even if I have his children and we have a wedding (just not on paper). He did tell me something rather comforting, that he thinks of me as equal to Babs, and there was no primary (to him). I am not sure what she feels but it was really reassuring to know that though I am a couple years behind I'm reaching equal status.

I still wish I could be a part of his family, but that would be pretty pie in the sky. One can always dream, might as well dream big.
 
Conservative people do sometimes surprise us in how accpeting they can be about poly. I know of many cases where it's happened.
 
Hi Mignonne, welcome to the board. You've got built in friends here, many of whom have had similar experiences to yours. Also, you can search for real life poly groups, if you're in or near a large city there should be some. You can try the online board Fetlife for networking (even if you're not kinky, per se, there are lots of poly people on there).

Please read up on "secondary rights."

http://www.morethantwo.com/polyforsecondaries.html

You should find those articles help clarify a lot of what you are going through.

It's a shame you feel your partners' families wouldn't accept you. I guess acceptance is important to many people, especially younger people. Many here however, have come out to less than accepting families, who came around after a year or so of education and struggle. So, it's not hopeless.

Try to stop thinking of being secondary. Or of "adding people to the relationship." Each dyad is unique and is its OWN relationship. You all have equal status. Your value is just as great as hers.

One red flag: your bf's One Penis Policy (OPP). Do a tag search here on that. You will find most poly people find it inherently sexist. If you really really don't want to ever date another man while with your current bf, ok. But if he's just scared some other guy with a bigger better penis (muscles, car, job, etc) is more likely to "steal you away" than a woman would be, hmmm... think it over.

The fact that you are fertile and your metamour isn't is a sticky situation. But it could help in the long run. If you 3 do manage to stay together and you want her to be a co-parent to your biological offspring, that can be worked out legally. Would save her spending $$$ to try and adopt someone else's biological child.

Best of luck with your growing poly dynamic, Mignonne!
 
Hi Mignonne, welcome to the board. You've got built in friends here, many of whom have had similar experiences to yours. Also, you can search for real life poly groups, if you're in or near a large city there should be some. You can try the online board Fetlife for networking (even if you're not kinky, per se, there are lots of poly people on there).

Thanks, you know, I just might do that. I'm near enough to a major U.S. city there's probably plenty of people. However the age demographic is so young, and I seem to click better with older folks. I will give it a shot though!

Please read up on "secondary rights."

http://www.morethantwo.com/polyforsecondaries.html

You should find those articles help clarify a lot of what you are going through.

I shall give it a read after I make this post, though I was recently told I wasn't a secondary. We don't use... well, Igor and I have been doing poly-ish stuff (I've been more specifically poly by definition, he mostly messed around w/ more than 1 woman, often w/o them knowing or threeway stuff. That's kinda how I found myself with them and why I say I was semi-hostile to his advances for a while) longer than Baby.

This is her first time making an extra party a romantic constant. She uses a lot of terms that Ignor (haha, I am totally leaving that typo...) and I don't use. Anyway, I digress, Igor considers me to be at very minimum another primary, whatever you call that. Sometimes I worry he would favor me over her if distance didn't help equal that out. I still want to read that, since even though I've been doing this I have ignored the culture and its dynamics.

It's a shame you feel your partners' families wouldn't accept you. I guess acceptance is important to many people, especially younger people. Many here however, have come out to less than accepting families, who came around after a year or so of education and struggle. So, it's not hopeless.

Try to stop thinking of being secondary. Or of "adding people to the relationship." Each dyad is unique and is its OWN relationship. You all have equal status. Your value is just as great as hers.

Well, both their families don't really like me even as "the friend," because they are helping me out with a rough time in my life and not completely focussing on themselves. I have not had a chance to speak with either family, though I want to. Distance divides us from west coast, midwest and the south.

The two difficulties with the families are because they feel somehow I am taking advantage of them, in addition Igor's fam are deep south Baptists... so idk about THAT. Baby's family, while in the liberal west-coast are pretty hardcore Christians too, and would discover not only is she sharing her boyfriend but she has had sexual relations with a woman (we have, in fact I am far from her first).

I sort of wish I could take down my OP, I was really in an emotional "me" moment which is rare... oh well. It's probably better that it stays.

Oh, and as I said, Igor and I spoke. And I think Baby would be heartbroken if she knew I felt less than her. We bonded a lot while she was here, though I could not, in the end, develop romantic feelings for her. She still refers to me as her girlfriend though... perhaps I should address that elsewhere; I'm writing a book here people! lol

One red flag: your bf's One Penis Policy (OPP). Do a tag search here on that. You will find most poly people find it inherently sexist. If you really really don't want to ever date another man while with your current bf, ok. But if he's just scared some other guy with a bigger better penis (muscles, car, job, etc) is more likely to "steal you away" than a woman would be, hmmm... think it over.

This is an agreement that Baby and Igor have had long before me, but after having some private heart-to-hearts with her, it is evident she does not like it. Igor has a long history of private dalliances with other women, the level to which he was seeking me out was hidden from Baby at first actually.

His OPP bothers her a lot, because he does this quite frequently while shutting down any male that she even may possibly only flirt with, he says it's just a territorial/jealousy thing and they have remained consistent in this until recently. Again I should create separate posts elsewhere for a lot of this; it is a complex situation! She has a very specific fetish and he is not remotely into it and she has no outlet for it except internet roleplay.

I have not agreed to the OPP because I am more... stubborn? I was the result of him wanting a paramour, and fortunately for her I had the decency to make it an out in the open thing.

Will have to expound elsewhere.

The fact that you are fertile and your metamour isn't is a sticky situation. But it could help in the long run. If you 3 do manage to stay together and you want her to be a co-parent to your biological offspring, that can be worked out legally. Would save her spending $$$ to try and adopt someone else's biological child.

Best of luck with your growing poly dynamic, Mignonne!

I actually did suffer a miscarriage not too long ago, and while I was pregnant it was evident that it was creating feelings in her she didn't know she had. I never got to a visibly pregnant stage though. I told her that if the baby made it and we kept it, if she would like to be a sister-mother with me. And that the child would grow up calling her mother as well.

These were my true feelings, not just trying to assuage her. She was so touched and constantly prayed the child would come and be healthy. I miscarried as sometimes nature decides, and perhaps it was better. She is only 22 and I have several fertile years left. I still think it would be hard on her but I think if we can get Igor to be more lenient with her needs we will definitely make it long-term.
 
OK, so... Let's recap. Correct anything I get wrong.

You got involved with Igor at a "tumultuous" trying time in your life. He was supportive and you bonded.

Igor took up with you as something on the side, without Baby knowing. Eventually he told her though and she's OK with it.

They both come from very conservative families and you fear they will never accept their daughter is bi and you are in a relationship with their son.

You are a distance away from them? How often do you get to see your lover?

Your female metamour (Babs? Baby?) is a friend but not your lover. She is only 22, infertile, you're 31, fertile and with plenty of childbearing years left. She is on board with you having a baby for her to also mother.

You say you prefer hanging out with older people but your male lover (whom you call a "man") is 24, and your metamour (a "girl") is only 22 and still seems adolescent. A bit on the young side for having a baby herself, but some people, esp conservative C'tians, do it that young...

Both you and your metamour dislike Igor's OPP. If he comes from a Southern Baptist background, he might find that "rule" self explanatory, but polyamory is for feminists, dude! You three might want to sort that out tout de suite.

Igor doesn't want you to think of yourself as secondary, and neither do you, but you feel like a "third" that has joined another couples' relationship. Reading up on V and triad dynamics will help a lot.

It sounds like you've all got a lot of work to do before bringing a child into the mix, imo. Do you not feel that way?

I am not being harsh. I'm still making lots of poly mistakes and I'm old enough to be your mother. All this is meant kindly and merely as food for thought.
 
Oh no you're not being to harsh at all! I wasn't thinking of children until things are a lot more stabilized and we are all further along in our development. The pregnancy was an accident, but we discussed and decided to keep it. I lost it though, and there was a sad moment.

But, I think that yes, they are not ready, or rather "we" are not ready. It's just something I would like to be on the table if all goes well. I hope this makes more sense.

They both live with me part-time. He is from the south, but she is from the west coast (so am I), he lives there as well and they come stay with me for periods of time (at their ability/choosing). We're working on getting a place together within the next year, providing things keep improving.

We have a lot of work to do. I agree. I have been talking to Igor a lot about our future and current dynamic, right now Baby is off spending time with family so I'm taking advantage of our time to navigate a relationship that just sort of -happened- (that's why they're younger, I was seeking at the time). I guess you could say Igor and I have been evolving as a couple for 8 or 9 months or so. He began pursuing me a year ago and we have been friends longer than that. I admit things are improving, but it's still bizarre to me.

There was another discussion on the OPP today, it was playful, but I smiled my sweetest smile and said, "I do not agree to it." I never have anytime it comes up, it isn't that it is sexist that I refuse, I just don't want to wait and see. Plus, I may like to have an older male lover someday, or who knows? Maybe I will want us to be poly-fi? He seems to want to be exclusive with just the two of us now. I will see how I feel about it in the future based on his behavior. I should probably talk to Baby about what sort of arrangement she would like, ideally. We get along very well.

Though this does seem crazy, things are fairly stable between he and I, but Baby has a unique issue that I will bring up in another thread. I feel like this is so confusing hah. Sorry. You got most of it right. Oi!
 
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Seems to me like you are handling things pretty well. Complex situation, but I think I get the basic picture.
 
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