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Old 01-06-2010, 06:05 AM
Ravenesque Ravenesque is offline
Senior Member
Join Date: Dec 2009
Posts: 297

Ceoli, you voiced many of my views when I could not while at work. I would only end up repeating much of what you said so I won't backtrack too much.

LovingRadiance, point out where I said that poly parents should make one choice above another or that you had to declare yourself polyamorous.

Originally Posted by redpepper View Post
I'm sorry, I don't understand who you are directing this too, me? and what you mean by this.... could you please clarify for us? Perhaps a definition of sex positive and negative? Your version?
My statements are based on comments from this thread and from others within this forum. From discussions where it is insisted that relationships where sex is prevalent cannot be considered polyamorous (sexless is fine and dandy) to discussions such as this where it is rationalized that accepting a sex-negative culture and disassociating from parts of the poly community who do not, is acceptable.

Simplest concisest definition. It is broader than the below.

Sex positive is accepting of sexuality and expressing it openly. Sex positive education would include teaching safe sex.
Sex negative is moralizing sex to be a vice. Something shameful. Something to be avoided or hidden or suppressed.

Originally Posted by redpepper View Post
you are right, it is a choice. Did you hear when I said that I didn't like making that choice? Just wondering, cause I feel a little like you are telling me I am not a good parent. Are you directing this towards me? If you aren't, perhaps you could use a different way of stating your opinion that doesn't come across as judgmental?
My words were pretty exact. Where is the judgment and the statement that you or others who make this choice are not good parents? Did it seem a judgment because I said I would not make the same choice? It is a choice. I do find moralizing it as what makes a good parent questionable. What kind of parent is the one who makes a differing choice?

Originally Posted by redpepper View Post
This seems very vague to me and again feels like it is in some way directed at me. Do you think I am clinging to ideals? Do you think I am hiding from reality? Do you think I am not associating with people as a way of hiding? to make it okay? If so, how? I don't get where you are getting this from.... I take this all personally and perhaps that is not where I should take it, but I do, so correct me if I am wrong in that.... If you are talking about people in general, some people in general, who are not writing on here, but our society/culture/country... then I would be more willing to engage in that kind of conversation as I think you are right in a lot of cases. I just need some clarification first.
My thoughts were not only directed at you. There are behaviors and attitudes in our society/culture/country which are replicated here on a smaller scale. Normative means what is generally accepted as normal and the morally right way to do things.

Originally Posted by redpepper View Post
Yes and I was one of those queers fighting for what queer women take for granted now. My mother was one of those women, with her kids on each side of her. Ironic now isn't it that 30 years later we can't even talk to each other.... yet she raised the person I am, similar values coming head to head. I would go on and clarify what my childhood was like as the daughter of a women's rights activist, but I feel I have put myself out there too much and that it will only cause more judgment from you at this point.
Again what judgment are you referring to? Is simply not thinking as you do being judgmental?
Originally Posted by redpepper View Post
Again, directed towards me? Do you think I am blaming oppressed people for my oppression? Do you think I am trying to "pass" with everyone in my life? Yes, I go for passing sometimes... why? because that is how I have chosen to quietly make change that has worked in the past.... after I stopped yelling at people and being angry and frustrated about the world. I just shut people out with this approach, it didn't work for me.
My statement was that there is a taught mindset that oppression is the fault of those who are oppressed. Poly rights were spoken of in another thread and it was pointedly stated that oppression wasn't being spoken of. When questioned, the response was that a victim mentality was not the reality of those seeking poly rights and how sad it must be to have that reality. Insulting. Born of a privileged perspective. Victims don't choose victimhood yet when they do fight against it, calling an egg an egg (oppression and naming their oppressors whether people or structures) they are told they are wallowing in victimhood. So hey, if having one's kids taken away is not being victimized and treated unjustly, if that isn't oppression I don't know what is. Maybe it's a definitional problem No I think it's just a matter of disassociation again.

Originally Posted by redpepper View Post
I have no idea what you just said here.... say again? Maybe my response above was enough? In a nutshell, I disagree with your last statement.... you sound like my anarchist friend... he talks like you do. Do you identify as an anarchist?
The pretenders don't usually contribute to the change which enables them to stop pretending. Not unless we're talking about espionage.

What is anarchy to you and what about my statements seem similar to his statements?

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