Boundries being set after the fact

ilangasun

New member
Hi
I've recently started dating a wonderful man, he and his wife were looking for separate poly relationships, when we met his wife had a bf and from the onset when I asked if there were any restrictions or boundries that were to be honored they both said no. I've been dating my bf for a couple of months now, and recently we became intimate, meanwhile his wife broke up with her bf, she was still fine with our relationship, a couple of weeks ago we all went out together, myself, my bf and his wife, we all had fun, after the date I was told by his wife she was having a few twinges, but was working through them, since then the twinges have gone to her not knowing if she can handle a poly relationship between us, to again her working on it, to her now saying she doesn't want us to have sex, or oral and only have an overnight twice a month, we see eachother one once a week, to not texting or talking to him in the evenings as this is their bonding time. I am trying to be supportive and know that feelings do arise in a poly relationship, but can't help feeling that these are just passive aggressive moves to end the relationship without her seeming to be the bad guy. Am I overreacting? Do I give her the time, but put a time limit on it?
 
well if you break up with him because he's honoring he demands of his wife then she's getting her way.

seems to me like he needs to stand up for your relationship and tell her that those restrictions are unacceptable and that you will continue the relationship the same way as you have been.
 
In my book, no one manages any relationships except the people in them. I would not tolerate that bullshit - I am the one who calls the shots in how I conduct my relationships and my partners call the shots in how they conduct theirs, but metamours do not get a say about anything beyond certain scheduling concerns.

In other words, his relationship with you is not her domain - she doesn't get to set rules about what kind of sex you have nor how often you have it IN YOUR OWN RELATIONSHIPS - she may be married to him, but your sexuality and how you wish to express it and share it is your business and no one else's. It is is up to him and you to conduct the relationship you two have, as the two of you see fit. She is not a part of that and should not feel she has any right to steer it in any direction, no matter how uncomfortable she is - it's her job to deal with her own feelings and work through her struggles without trying to control him and you. That is what mature adults do.

She needs to back off of his relationship with YOU and make sure she's only managing his relationship with HER. If she needs more time and certain considerations from him, she should make those requests from him, and it's up to him whether or not he wants to honor them - but control YOU and what he can do with you? No fucking way.
 
In my book, no one manages any relationships except the people in them. I would not tolerate that bullshit - I am the one who calls the shots in how I conduct my relationships and my partners call the shots in how they conduct theirs, but metamours do not get a say about anything beyond certain scheduling concerns.

In other words, his relationship with you is not her domain - she doesn't get to set rules about what kind of sex you have nor how often you have it IN YOUR OWN RELATIONSHIPS - she may be married to him, but your sexuality and how you wish to express it and share it is your business and no one else's. It is is up to him and you to conduct the relationship you two have, as the two of you see fit. She is not a part of that and should not feel she has any right to steer it in any direction, no matter how uncomfortable she is - it's her job to deal with her own feelings and work through her struggles without trying to control him and you. That is what mature adults do.

She needs to back off of his relationship with YOU and make sure she's only managing his relationship with HER. If she needs more time and certain considerations from him, she should make those requests from him, and it's up to him whether or not he wants to honor them - but control YOU and what he can do with you? No fucking way.

I have to agree with this. I would never dream of setting limits on the relationship between Bud and Sweet Lady. It just isn't my place to do so. I have been asked my thoughts on certain things, like sex between them without condoms. I said as long as everyone has been tested and results have been shared it's up to the 2 of them when they were ready for that step. They did it when they wanted to not when I said they could. We check in once in a while with one another to make sure there is nothing we should talk about, needs are being met etc. But we don't control what the other partners do with one another. That's insane!

His wife wouldn't like it if you were trying to do the same to her relationship so she needs to sit down, shut up and deal with it like an adult. If she needs extra support she can find it in places like this forum to work through her issues. It's not your burden to carry.
 
I both agree and disagree with what's been said. Yes, in an ideal world you wouldn't have to deal with the reality of envy and jealousy, and would only have to concern yourself with whatever you and one other person agree upon. In the real world, people - especially inexperienced people like this couple - have to learn how to handle the issues and concerns that arise. You can choose not to accept this and walk away, or give them some time to learn to resolve these problems.

While it's not your concern, if you walk away his wife will not have to work on her issues, and they may repeat the experience. Yes, that's their problem. You do lose the opportunity for THIS relationship, though - whether it is worth some time to see what happens is your choice. If you push back on him (rather than simply provide information and try to be supportive), then the likeliest result is that he will bow to his wife's wishes and just end your relationship. That's no-win all around (even for his wife, who learns nothing). Giving her some time to work on this may result in a good outcome. That's a risk, versus the certainty of walking away.
 
When you're a live in partner, quality time can be hard to come by. I'd feel aggrieved if my live in partner was spending all the evening we have together communicating with other people.
 
. . . If you push back on him (rather than simply provide information and try to be supportive), then the likeliest result is that he will bow to his wife's wishes and just end your relationship. That's no-win all around (even for his wife, who learns nothing). Giving her some time to work on this may result in a good outcome. That's a risk, versus the certainty of walking away.
The wife working on her issues is distinctly not the same thing as drawing up rules for what another woman is allowed to do with her vagina. Dealing with insecurity and jealousy does not require dictating what her husband may or may not do with his girlfriend. The wife did have a bf when the OP started dating her husband, so it may just be envy if the wife's bf is no longer in the picture, but since when is envy a basis upon which to justify shitty behavior? His wife can work on her issues without trying to control their relationship, which is not her business. If the OP stands her ground and says she will not accept being bullied by her metamour, that is a win for her, whether he breaks it off to kowtow to his wife's insecurities or not. The OP is not responsible for her metamour's emotional state. Establishing and defending one's personal boundaries is important and healthy, even if it means losing someone who can't deal with it. However, having personal boundaries and setting rules for someone else to follow are two vastly different things. No relationship is worth allowing a third uninvolved party to dictate its terms and micromanage it.
 
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No relationship is worth allowing a third uninvolved party to dictate its terms and micromanage it.

Not in the long run. But maybe in the short run if that gives her a chance to figure things out.

I understand you have your principles, but they seem to lack an element of compassion, and seem as unyielding and judgmental in nature as the veiws of staunch monogamists. Do you think everyone trying to establish a poly relationship is going to get it perfect from the very start? The ultimate goal may match your view, but how can anyone achieve it without making mistakes and learning?
 
Well, you don't know anything about me. People can make as many mistakes and learn from them as they need to, and I would have a shit-ton of compassion for them.

However, I have my boundaries.

One of my boundaries is that I am respected in my relationships, and another is that no metamour will dictate terms of my relationships. So, if a metamour starts telling me how deeply I can be emotionally invested, or what I can and cannot do sexually with a man I've been seeing for several months (as in the OP's scenario), even though she is married to him, I would tell her that is unreasonable and I will not accommodate her. I do understand time commitments and scheduling issues and would be very accommodating in that regard, but if there starts to be many cancellations that look like manipulation and exerting control, I would not accept that. If her husband, my lover, wanted to comply with her rules about how I can be in relationship with him, in any way, I would tell him our relationship will end because I am not being shown respect.

I am an autonomous individual with feelings and needs of my own and I will not be treated as a secondary or less important than anyone else he is involved with. Therefore, I don't get involved with men who have hierarchies in their other relationships. His obligations and commitments to other partners, including one to whom he is married, are his business and not mine, just as his obligations and commitments to me are his business, not his wife's.

If I had a lover whose wife has problems with a lack of attention from him, she would need to address it with him, not limit my freedom; logically, limiting my time with him will not automatically improve how he behaves with her. If she is just dealing with her own internal issues, like insecurity, jealousy, envy, etc., no amount of limits placed on my relationship with her husband would fix that when it is an inside job that only she is responsible for. If we are friendly with each other, I would be happy to make suggestions as to how she can handle her issues, if that is welcome, not because I think I'm so evolved or superior but I do empathize and enjoy talking about ways to become more self-aware and overcoming self-imposed struggles.

However, I don't feel that the level of my involvement with a lover of mine, whether we are talking about emotional or physical involvement, is anything that a third person has a right to try and control in any way. Otherwise, what am I in a relationship for? It certainly is not to be controlled like a puppet by someone I am not in a relationship with.

For these reasons, I choose to get involved with mature, independent adults who value each person's autonomy and do not subscribe to hierarchical poly. I am the boss of me, no one else is. So, I tend not to date married poly guys unless they are very independent and not couple-centric in their approach to poly. I prefer dating other indie solos like myself. It may hurt, but I would rather walk away from a relationship than endure unreasonable demands that inhibit me in being myself. It may sound like I'm a hard-ass, but I am one of the most easygoing and fun-loving women around, and men tell me they are very comfortable being themselves with me. I simply strive to nurture my self-esteem by maintaining and defending my personal boundaries. The quality of a relationship is more important to me than "being poly." I don't need someone else's bullshit in my life. There are plenty of fish out there, as they say.

If I am involved with someone who is new to poly and he and his wife aren't able to handle the very real ramifications of managing multiple loving relationships, one or both of them making up stupid rules about what I can and cannot do won't make them suddenly able to handle it.
 
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Thank you all so much for your thoughts on this, it certainly has given me lots to think about and sort through, I really appreciate you taking the time to respond
 
...However, I don't feel that the level of my involvement with a lover of mine, whether we are talking about emotional or physical involvement, is anything that a third person has a right to try and control in any way. Otherwise, what am I in a relationship for? It certainly is not to be controlled like a puppet by someone I am not in a relationship with. ..

I agree with you, except she isn't and can't control what the OP does, she can only try to control what he does. It's not about the OP (unless she spoke directly to the OP about it) - it's about them. Whether or not the OP works with this for a while or not is her choice.
 
I simply strive to nurture my self-esteem by maintaining and defending my personal boundaries. The quality of a relationship is more important to me than "being poly." I don't need someone else's bullshit in my life. There are plenty of fish out there, as they say.

If I am involved with someone who is new to poly and he and his wife aren't able to handle the very real ramifications of managing multiple loving relationships, one or both of them making up stupid rules about what I can and cannot do won't make them suddenly able to handle it.

"Stupid rules?" "Someone's bullshit?" That's not very compassionate or empathetic.

The wife of the OP is struggling. Take a bike metaphor: she needs training wheels on her bike.

Having recently been in a similar situation with my former bf (though not married to him, I would be the "wife" in this situation), I can relate. I did not try to limit what xbf did sexually with his latest lovers, a married couple. When it comes to sex, in for a penny, in for a pound. Kissing, diddling, oral, intercourse, it's all sex to me. So, that is moot. Obviously it isn't for the wife of the bf of the OP.

Now, lots of texting to new gf during what is supposed to be quality time between husband and wife? That, to me is "stupid" NRE behavior. If it bothers the wife, the husband and she could agree to limiting how long he can be texting new gf during what is supposed to be their couple time.

Overnights? Again, that can be a tough one to handle when one is new to poly. Everyone has their comfort levels about being "left out" when they are new to poly. It can take time to get used to that. I can totally see not wanting overnights at all for a new relationship, for a few weeks at least.

Now, yes, all this can seem hypocritical of the wife, since she had a bf formerly and perhaps her h was fine with his own laissez faire of that relationship. But when the tables turn and now he has a gf and she doesn't have a bf, she is probably surprised by her own envy and jealousy.

In my case, the married couple my bf was suddenly in a triad with wanted a lot of time with him. NRE like MAD. And they also had a hard time planning in advance when they would be free for a date. Also, the husband was jealous of his wife's feelings for my bf and so made a rule all sex was to be 3somes (both men being bi, but new to MM sex).

So, since they had 3 small kids, first of all, both members of the couple needed to be free on an evening, plus they needed to find a sitter. It seems this was hard for them to plan in advance. So I kept getting bumped out when I thought I'd have a day with bf but all of a sudden new people were free at the last moment and I had to just step aside. I tried to get them to try and do a little advance planning, and they wouldn't or couldn't. And when I tried to plan in advance myself, my dates got shorter and shorter to make room for their sudden availability.

I guess I was "stupid" too, to want more consideration. :rolleyes:
 
I think this is a classic case if the wife's relationship petered out so now shw wants her husband back all to herself. Well tough luck on that I say. He's already in a relationship, I don't think her controlling behavior deserves compassion. Where is the compassion for the girlfriend? Essentially being told to fuck off? Wife makes crazy demand knowing gf will eventually gwt tired and leave then ahe gets what she wants, until of course wife gets another boyfriend.
 
"Stupid rules?" "Someone's bullshit?" That's not very compassionate or empathetic.
You are quoting what I would call it if a metamour tried to make rules for me to follow. I was only using an example from my perspective: A metamour who is struggling can make all the rules she wants - for herself. She can ask for agreements - from her partner. But a metamour does not call the shots over how I conduct my relationships. If her agreements and rules between her and her partner will affect me, I should be informed of them and I will consider them, but am under no obligation to comply nor accept any of those things that would hamper my ability to manage my own relationship. In that context, what I meant by a "stupid rule" is any rule that a metamour would expect me to follow.

The wife of the OP is struggling. Take a bike metaphor: she needs training wheels on her bike.
Fine. Find those training wheels and use them, but don't expect the husband's girlfriend to give them to her. The OP is not responsible for his wife's self-esteem or emotional well-being. A struggling metamour expecting to limit my freedom as an autonomous person is not what I would call training wheels. No limits she can place on someone she is not involved with will suddenly make her handle poly well.

Now, lots of texting to new gf during what is supposed to be quality time between husband and wife? That, to me is "stupid" NRE behavior. If it bothers the wife, the husband and she could agree to limiting how long he can be texting new gf during what is supposed to be their couple time.
That issue, to me, is just a combination of good manners and time management. If someone needed to be handed a rule about knowing when and when not to text someone, then they probably wouldn't be the type of guy I'd get involved with. I have no qualms about someone saying something like "Sundays and Wednesdays are the days I reserve to be with my wife." I would just automatically give them space and not expect texts on those days. I am not someone that needs to be in touch with a lover every day anyway. But telling me there is a rule against texting every single evening, without any designated for me? That smacks of control issues. No, I would not accept that.

Overnights? Again, that can be a tough one to handle when one is new to poly. Everyone has their comfort levels about being "left out" when they are new to poly.
Again, that is for them to work out internally. If it's just a matter of time management and scheduling, okay, I would work with that. But if a metamour just wants to control the pace of how my relationship with her partner develops, that is not respectful of me, and really does nothing to help her handle her issues.

It sounds like the OP's boyfriend and his wife were very unprepared for poly, and yes, as Inyourendo said, the wife is just having a tantrum about being the one without a second partner now, as if it's all okay while everyone is equally hooking up, but not okay if she's feeling left out. I say she needs to put her big girl panties on and deal with the fact that the genie has been let out of the bottle! No amount of superficial "control" she tries to exert over the OP will fix the wife's insecurities.

In my case, the married couple my bf was suddenly in a triad with wanted a lot of time with him . . . when I tried to plan in advance myself, my dates got shorter and shorter to make room for their sudden availability.

I guess I was "stupid" too, to want more consideration. :rolleyes:
Asking for consideration is not the same as making rules. Discussing and negotiating is not the same as dictating.
 
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