Gay, Bi-, Queer Polyamory

Back to the idea of gay-schmay

That's my term for bouncing all over Kinsey 6 and back. My new question is about love types. Do those of us with a very gay history have a difference in how we love - or the depth of feeling we have- for new loves of other genders? Having two people now, I have a feeling of difference but articulating the way the difference manifests is difficult. How do other describe this ?
 
.... I have a feeling of difference but articulating the way the difference manifests is difficult. How do other describe this ?

Heck if I know! But I know what you mean. It's different. Not less or more, just different.
 
Gender/orientation imbalance in poly

Getting back to an old topic (and I readily confess I haven't read the whole thread), I wonder if this is similar to what others have seen in their local poly community.

1) Bi/pansexual women form the largest constituency of poly. As per bisexual men, bi women have the largest dating pool; they can potentially partner up with straight men, bi men, bi women and lesbian women.

2) Straight men are close seconds to most commonly found poly peeps (and for the sake of argument, I'm pretending that there are only two gender identifications and three orientations available, and that they are mutually exclusive). However, their dating pool is much smaller, and consists only of straight and bi women. And as we have already learned, even though bi girls are the most numerous, there is a lot more competition for them.

3) Gay guys are almost non-existent. Why is that? I can think of three possible reasons;
a) There is more or less overt homophobia in the community.
b) Gay guys are more often to be found in open/swinging relationships vs. poly.
c) With a gender imbalance in favour of women and straight men being so prevalent, gay guys don't have a much of a dating pool to speak of in poly circles.

So, there is a dearth of straight women compared with straight men in the community, and a definite dearth of gay guys. Is anyone else seeing this?
 
That's my term for bouncing all over Kinsey 6 and back. My new question is about love types. Do those of us with a very gay history have a difference in how we love - or the depth of feeling we have- for new loves of other genders? Having two people now, I have a feeling of difference but articulating the way the difference manifests is difficult. How do other describe this ?

I come from the opposite end... was in a hetero marriage for 30 years, and now have been partnered with a (trans)woman for 2. There's a huge difference in living with a woman than a guy! We're both girls! We do girl stuff! She's real femme and I'm in the middle, I can go femme (into fashion, interior design, arts and crafts, cooking and other girly stuff), and since she was raised as a boy, we also share some traditionally masculine interests, such as camping and hiking.

However, the biggest difference I have seen as compared to my ex is my gf's communication skill. She is just so much better at talking things over without getting huffy or trying to just "fix" something. She is much more open emotionally.
 
So, there is a dearth of straight women compared with straight men in the community, and a definite dearth of gay guys. Is anyone else seeing this?

Interesting. As a straight woman, I definitely see myself as a minority on these forums and at the few poly gatherings I've attended. However, I'm not sure there really is a dearth on the macro level. I'm thinking of the polygamists with all those sister-wives, aren't they straight? I don't know enough about those communities. BUT mostly, I wonder if straight women are just more quiet about it. Bi and gay women have, perhaps, more experience in fighting for and being vocal about expressing their sexuality, living out loud about it, and being ready to rock the mainstream boat. I have a feeling there are lots of straight women in poly situations that do not feel the need to be an activist or join a community, and so we just don't hear from them as much. They're just getting on with... getting it on. I think that it is most likely that the majority of straight women in polyamorous relationships would be involved in Vees, Quads (where it's more of a "wife swap" than everyone being sexual with each other), or just living solo with several loves in their lives.
 
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My observation has been that a lot of gay men who are polyamorous aren't active in the poly community, so they look underrepresented in polyamory.
 
Yep, very much true. A specific subset of people in consensual nonmonogamy are attracted to poly, and an even more specific subset are hanging out on forums like these.

I read an interesting article on how some people might lack sexual orientation alltogether. I don't mean asexuality, but that some people (the argument of the writer was that more women than men lack sexual orientation) don't have a strong gender preference, in that they would be attracted to the female/male form in general, or desire sex with a man/woman specifically. So a heterosexual woman would go 'Oh, I just really need a man right now', a bisexual woman would check out both guys and girls at work, and a woman with no sexual orientation would really rather desire intimacy/sex on a more general, abstract level, or only with specifically their current partner(s). Women in the last group would not understand magazines like Playgirl at all, even if they had male partners whom they enjoyed being with.
 
@ Scramcity: I dunno if gender has as much to do with it. Both my partners are men yet I love each in very different ways. And I'm sure each of them could say the same. No two people are alike in how you fall in love with them.


3) Gay guys are almost non-existent. Why is that? I can think of three possible reasons;
a) There is more or less overt homophobia in the community.
b) Gay guys are more often to be found in open/swinging relationships vs. poly.
c) With a gender imbalance in favour of women and straight men being so prevalent, gay guys don't have a much of a dating pool to speak of in poly circles.

Mostly (b) really.

I think I mentioned this elsewhere but my observation is that most gay men see things as one of two extremes---either you're in a 100% fully monogamous couple, or you're completely sexually open with no boundaries.
For many gay men...this in-between zone of being in love with multiple partners yet still having a level of open/honest commitment & devotion to them all---is a strange Grey Area that they just don't quite understand or feel comfortable with. They'd rather things be more black and white.
And this is very ironic seeing as I'm convinced most gay men would probably benefit from open and honest polyamory! (I know now I could never go back.) I wish more of them understood it better.
Oh well! :eek:

My observation has been that a lot of gay men who are polyamorous aren't active in the poly community, so they look underrepresented in polyamory.
I agree with this too. We've visited our local poly group some, but it's sporadic at best. Most of our friends are still in the gay community and while we felt very welcomed at the poly group, we certainly stood out quite a bit. (Not to mention some of their meeting topics didn't apply to us...like the "Poly with Kids" discussion...LOL!) :D
 
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I think I mentioned this elsewhere but my observation is that most gay men see things as one of two extremes---either you're in a 100% fully monogamous couple, or you're completely sexually open with no boundaries.

Perhaps you were being too quick when writing that, Rfrom. Or maybe that's been your experience, as said. But my observation is that [American] gay men are somewhat infrequently sexually monogamous when coupled up, while very frequently emotionally monogamous while sexually non-monogamous. Many of the latter also practice DADT (don't ask, don't tell) regards their casual sex adventures.

One sad result of this situation is that only a small(ish?) minority of gay men are actually available for what I call full spectrum intimacy (relating with people in a whole and rounded way which can include sexual intimacy), while ever so many are available for NSA (no strings attached) casual sex. It's sad because it leads to loneliness. And all of the hot sex in the world can't fill that void.

And this is very ironic seeing as I'm convinced most gay men would probably benefit from open and honest polyamory! (I know now I could never go back.) I wish more of them understood it better.

I couldn't agree more. But almost all of the men in question seem to believe that "true love" is exclusive and dyadic. This is unsurprising, given the songs, movies, novels and other forms of relationship propaganda (mostly hetero, of course).
 
Same sex couples now have the legal right, and ability, to marry in New York state! Yay!
I hope this trend continues.
 
River, I'll join in the Yay! About this thread though... Let's not hurry to give theories about the gay men - let them speak for themselves. It might just be that we don't hear much from them 'cause we're not inviting them enough. And giving theories about how they work probably isn't helping that cause.

As to the original post about a folder for the bi's & queer's in here - I'd like it. I do love to talk to straight people, but the message "I'm totally OK with you guys" comes up a lot, and while I appreciate it, it'd be nice to sometimes have discussions that don't get so clogged up.
It's something about who have the need to speak their minds, and in what circles. I've learned to keep my mouth shut around straight guys, and it's sadly a habit that seeps over to other areas. I do love the straight people, but they haven't had that experience, and sometimes speak accordingly. It'd be nice with some corners for the more soft-spoken of us.

Second thought, looking at this rant, it's a bit weird to call me soft-spoken. But there it is.
 
New to this, and new to here, but I read plenty of the post. I can see how a "sub-forum" would be very helpful.... It's a good idea : )
 
Same sex couples now have the legal right, and ability, to marry in New York state! Yay!
I hope this trend continues.

River, I'll join in the Yay!

Woohoo!!! (Not that I plan on marrying ever again, but great for those who want to.)

As to the original post about a folder for the bi's & queer's in here - I'd like it. ...It'd be nice with some corners for the more soft-spoken of us.

a "sub-forum" would be very helpful.... It's a good idea : )

It's not a subforum, but it's a group and it's already here.

Go to Community in the bar above.

http://www.polyamory.com/forum/group.php?groupid=3
 
Go New York! And it more than doubles the number of people in the US who have access to it now, so it's more that just "the sixth state" allowing it, it's a state with more population (queer or overall) than the previous five and DC combined!
 
Interesting statistic, TB. Thanks!
 
Are there any bi guys in here who have both a boyfriend and a girlfriend, husband and wife, or anything like that? Just curious.
 
Is bisexuality enough? Not really, I think. As a label, it's not highly useful. If somebody says to me they are gay/straight/lesbian, I understand that they are interested in and at least theoretically capable of sex, romance and long-term relationships with people who posses the gender identification of their choice.

Not so with "bisexuals". I know of all those fancy terms like "bicurious", "hetero/homoflexible", "bisexual lesbian", "pansexual" etc., but the sheer popularity of "bisexual" will ensure it's survival as an umbrella term that covers all the above variations and then some.

Are there genuine Kinsey 3's out there? Must be. But how many and how to tell them apart from the rest, if everyone's bisexual at least in principle, theoretically, never say never, "I fall for the person not the gender" -way?

Don't get me wrong. It's wonderful that more and more people don't auto-assume they're straight just because everyone else seems to be. But an intellectual nod to the bi potential in all of us is a far cry from actually being available for courting by both (all) genders.

What I really want to know is this; if a girl calls herself bisexual, does it mean she likes to kiss girls when she's drunk, enjoys threesomes with her boyfriend (because let's face it - he wouldn't do it with another guy for her), had a girly crush during her teenage years, has agreed on an OPP and really has no choice but to seek out other girls...?

When does bisexual mean "yes, I am open and willing to engage in long-term committed romantic relationships with members of both (and in the case of pansexual, any) genders"? Because frankly, I don't have time for the others. Casual has a lot of good to it, but I just don't want to sex up anyone who is a priori uninterested/unavailable for a relationship with me that goes beyond the hydraulics.
 
It is my observation that a very large percentage of men who are bisexual are not also biamorous. At least not yet. They may have the potential to become biamorus, but they'd have to deal with their internalized homophobia and fear of intimacy with men.

A biamorous person can be both romantically and sexually attracted to persons of either sex. (That would be me.) But a bisexual person may not be romantically attracted/capable at all, or may only be capable and interested with one or the other sex.

A person can be bisexual and totally uninterested and/or incapable of 'romantic' loving. Many, many people substitute sex for love, and avoid emotional intimacy and bonding.

I suspect bisexual women are more often also biamorous than is the case with bisexual men. But this is just the results of a very informal and unscientific poll.

I'm also not terribly fond of the term "bisexual" as definitive for people like me, because so many bisexual people are just not like me at all, in that they may not include and involve loving relationship. Sex is not love!, and it's too bad we as a culture have put sex over love in defining ourselves.
 
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. . . an intellectual nod to the bi potential in all of us is a far cry from actually being available for courting by both (all) genders.

What I really want to know is this; if a girl calls herself bisexual, does it mean she likes to kiss girls when she's drunk, enjoys threesomes with her boyfriend (because let's face it - he wouldn't do it with another guy for her), had a girly crush during her teenage years, has agreed on an OPP and really has no choice but to seek out other girls...?

This may be an unpopular statement, but I do think that many, many women are "going bisexual" just to please the guys in their lives. Not saying that quite a lot of them wouldn't have found bi- or pansexuality on their own, but that individual exploration and discovery seems to be less and less, while doing it at the suggestion of a male partner seems to be happening more and more, from what I've seen here and elsewhere.

It is getting so prevalent that my first inclination is not to believe it when a woman who is currently involved with a man says she is bi, especially when they are looking for a "girl" (ugh!) to add to their relationship. I admit, it alarms me -- not the bisexuality, but the use of another person to satisfy their fantasies, AND a certain vibe that tells me there is a neediness on the woman's part for their male partner's approval -- so much that their own sexual ripening becomes tainted by it. I dislike the lack of a conscious choice. And when you do something just out of a co-dependent need to please, I think it always backfires. And is usually full of drama.
 
This may be an unpopular statement, but I do think that many, many women are "going bisexual" just to please the guys in their lives.

It is getting so prevalent that my first inclination is not to believe it when a woman who is currently involved with a man says she is bi, especially when they are looking for a "girl" (ugh!) to add to their relationship.

Ditto. And when a woman tells me that they have an OPP in place but that she is free to date other "girls", I instinctively balk a little. It tells me that they really don't have a choice. It's okay if she is simply uninterested in dating other men, but not being able to do that because of the insecurities of the male partner?

First, as has been gone over this site a many times, statements like that totally denigrate the potential value and importance of lesbian relationships. Second, I've observed that although men might think that in principle, they wouldn't get jealous of a female partner dating another woman, it's when the relationship is no longer a potential fantasy but actually there, in your face, women suddenly become a lot more threatening and the guy starts closing ranks.
 
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