I am brand new to the forum, but I am finally seeking out some advice on the encouragement of a good friend whose judgement I trust. Please bear with me because the context for my problem is a little convoluted.
3.5 years ago my husband and I became polyfi with a woman who was our very good friend. She and her (at that time, now ex-)fiancee were our housemates. We have helped her through a number of traumatizing events in the last 5 years, including her break-up with her fiancee and that was not even the most emotionally trying item on the list. Getting through everything together made us feel very close to her and when she admitted to an attraction to my husband and even a little to myself, I didn't feel that self-conscious admitting that we had felt attracted to her, in return. We had plenty of speed bumps, all of us were new to polyamory, and between the three of us there are 2 diagnosed cases of PTSD. Generally, things are good, we work on easing each other's triggers and supporting each other, but she and I do knock heads from time to time. Unfortunately, these disagreements have become one of my husband's triggers, as is the prospect of her up and leaving us....which makes many minor and certainly any serious disagreement even more difficult than it would be otherwise. We try to handle these things as best we can, with mixed success. Yes, she and he see a therapist pretty regularly, and sometimes I even go and speak with him, too.
Ok, so here's the present issue. She has always wanted children. Given that she has a history of abuse (she was a child and life has not treated her well since, not until she came to my husband and I), and that she cannot support herself financially but relies on my husband and I for many necessary requirements, whether she should even be thinking about kids is something else, entirely. My husband and I, however, know that we are not ready to have children in our lives, at all. We are young enough that we still have plenty of time (he is in his early 30's, I am in my late 20's, and our partner is a couple years younger than me). One day in October of last year, out of the blue, she tells me that she wants to have my husband's children. That we don't want kids yet has never been any kind of secret, but here is this demand. She never asked me, never even asked him, but told him and me separately. Neither of us was happy about this. He does not want to have children with her. I do not want another woman bearing my husband's children. Neither of us is ready to have kids in our lives and given the situation with our partner we know we would end up providing for and raising these children that we are not prepared for. Stunned and not quite sure what to do with this pronouncement, we told her that we aren't comfortable with that and that we don't know when we will be ready to have children. She said she understood and that she could hold off until the new year for some kind of answer. We were still stunned, so we agreed to that.
Yep. Hindsight is 20-20. That probably should have been a red flag right there. Fast forward to the first week of January...and she just dropped it on us, again on each of us alone. She did not ask if we felt any more clear about children, she did not ask if we felt any better about the prospect of her having his children, she just demanded answers and renewed her stated expectation that she would be reproducing with him. It was very badly done and, no, our answers had not changed! What followed was the better part of a month of her playing for time and somehow not understanding that we were not uncertain of our answer, that we had a decision, that she had already been told what it was. I was unable to participate in many of these conversations because I was either at work or in another room because she does not handle confrontation with me well, at all (passive aggression and catty bitchiness), so when situations are very tense with her and she needs a gentle hand I have learned from much pain and trial-and-error that it is best for me to be absent until she has calmed down.
My problem is that this....this broke my trust. She has now been told three times that NO, we are not ready for children! And, NO, she will not be having my husband's kids! Just because I am not ready to be pregnant and bear children yet, and I don't know when I will, does not mean that she gets to be having my husband's children, instead! We don't know where this expectation came from. She never brought up this topic for discussion or negotiation until she was dumping it in our laps as a firm expectation.
I have made it clear to her, accompanied by the worst panic attacks my husband has ever had, what our answer is and that it is not changing. For my part, I know that she has been hurting because her plans have been taken from her, but I have been furious and feeling that my trust has been very betrayed. We are all trying to see if we can get back to a better state together, but I am seriously doubting whether I even feel like she's my partner anymore...and I don't know how to go about allowing myself to slowly trust her again, even though my husband needs that normalcy very badly. I find myself doubting whether we should have her in our lives anymore. Fear of loneliness without her is not enough reason to be with her if she keeps hurting me, and while she and my husband do not fight or disagree like she and I do, I worry sometimes that she unconsciously used his attachment trigger for her to manipulate him in to putting off being told for the final time, and a final time after that, that kids were not in the plan for her and us. As it is, we had had a plan to slowly let ourselves drift apart from her, that she had agreed to...but I am still hurting so badly and am suspicious enough of her that I am fearfully wondering if this will just drag on and on, and what if she tries pressuring us? Or my husband, who is still emotionally compromised?
I'm reading this and..yes..it looks awful. When she is in a right mind she can be wonderful, and we have supported each other through so much in the last 3 1/2 years, so I don't want to throw this away if this is something that we can work through and my trust is something that she can regain over time. But...I worry about that trigger of my husband's. And I worry about being hurt again by her. One more big drama outbreak like this and I don't think I could continue this relationship at all, which would probably end my husband's relationship with her out of loyalty, and would furthermore require her to find somewhere else to live...all while she still cannot even support herself. I have a lot of guilt about this, I feel bad for being suspicious of her motivations, I feel protective of my husband and of my relationship with him...
I...I don't know what to do about this. I am finally starting to feel more like myself after the most recent emotional explosion, accompanied by panic attacks, pain, and admissions of continued anger. She seemed angry and annoyed that I was angry with her for asking the question about my husband's children, but I still can't feel guilty for being angry that she asked. It seems like the sort of question you do not ask if you have respect for your boyfriend's marriage. I am trying very hard to slowly trust her again, to make gestures of good will, but it is very hard and I would be very grateful for the observations of experienced folk that are not involved in this situation (our therapist is wonderful, but we are the first polyfolk he has ever knowingly seen).
Thank you, all. I'm terribly sorry it took so long to get that all out there.
3.5 years ago my husband and I became polyfi with a woman who was our very good friend. She and her (at that time, now ex-)fiancee were our housemates. We have helped her through a number of traumatizing events in the last 5 years, including her break-up with her fiancee and that was not even the most emotionally trying item on the list. Getting through everything together made us feel very close to her and when she admitted to an attraction to my husband and even a little to myself, I didn't feel that self-conscious admitting that we had felt attracted to her, in return. We had plenty of speed bumps, all of us were new to polyamory, and between the three of us there are 2 diagnosed cases of PTSD. Generally, things are good, we work on easing each other's triggers and supporting each other, but she and I do knock heads from time to time. Unfortunately, these disagreements have become one of my husband's triggers, as is the prospect of her up and leaving us....which makes many minor and certainly any serious disagreement even more difficult than it would be otherwise. We try to handle these things as best we can, with mixed success. Yes, she and he see a therapist pretty regularly, and sometimes I even go and speak with him, too.
Ok, so here's the present issue. She has always wanted children. Given that she has a history of abuse (she was a child and life has not treated her well since, not until she came to my husband and I), and that she cannot support herself financially but relies on my husband and I for many necessary requirements, whether she should even be thinking about kids is something else, entirely. My husband and I, however, know that we are not ready to have children in our lives, at all. We are young enough that we still have plenty of time (he is in his early 30's, I am in my late 20's, and our partner is a couple years younger than me). One day in October of last year, out of the blue, she tells me that she wants to have my husband's children. That we don't want kids yet has never been any kind of secret, but here is this demand. She never asked me, never even asked him, but told him and me separately. Neither of us was happy about this. He does not want to have children with her. I do not want another woman bearing my husband's children. Neither of us is ready to have kids in our lives and given the situation with our partner we know we would end up providing for and raising these children that we are not prepared for. Stunned and not quite sure what to do with this pronouncement, we told her that we aren't comfortable with that and that we don't know when we will be ready to have children. She said she understood and that she could hold off until the new year for some kind of answer. We were still stunned, so we agreed to that.
Yep. Hindsight is 20-20. That probably should have been a red flag right there. Fast forward to the first week of January...and she just dropped it on us, again on each of us alone. She did not ask if we felt any more clear about children, she did not ask if we felt any better about the prospect of her having his children, she just demanded answers and renewed her stated expectation that she would be reproducing with him. It was very badly done and, no, our answers had not changed! What followed was the better part of a month of her playing for time and somehow not understanding that we were not uncertain of our answer, that we had a decision, that she had already been told what it was. I was unable to participate in many of these conversations because I was either at work or in another room because she does not handle confrontation with me well, at all (passive aggression and catty bitchiness), so when situations are very tense with her and she needs a gentle hand I have learned from much pain and trial-and-error that it is best for me to be absent until she has calmed down.
My problem is that this....this broke my trust. She has now been told three times that NO, we are not ready for children! And, NO, she will not be having my husband's kids! Just because I am not ready to be pregnant and bear children yet, and I don't know when I will, does not mean that she gets to be having my husband's children, instead! We don't know where this expectation came from. She never brought up this topic for discussion or negotiation until she was dumping it in our laps as a firm expectation.
I have made it clear to her, accompanied by the worst panic attacks my husband has ever had, what our answer is and that it is not changing. For my part, I know that she has been hurting because her plans have been taken from her, but I have been furious and feeling that my trust has been very betrayed. We are all trying to see if we can get back to a better state together, but I am seriously doubting whether I even feel like she's my partner anymore...and I don't know how to go about allowing myself to slowly trust her again, even though my husband needs that normalcy very badly. I find myself doubting whether we should have her in our lives anymore. Fear of loneliness without her is not enough reason to be with her if she keeps hurting me, and while she and my husband do not fight or disagree like she and I do, I worry sometimes that she unconsciously used his attachment trigger for her to manipulate him in to putting off being told for the final time, and a final time after that, that kids were not in the plan for her and us. As it is, we had had a plan to slowly let ourselves drift apart from her, that she had agreed to...but I am still hurting so badly and am suspicious enough of her that I am fearfully wondering if this will just drag on and on, and what if she tries pressuring us? Or my husband, who is still emotionally compromised?
I'm reading this and..yes..it looks awful. When she is in a right mind she can be wonderful, and we have supported each other through so much in the last 3 1/2 years, so I don't want to throw this away if this is something that we can work through and my trust is something that she can regain over time. But...I worry about that trigger of my husband's. And I worry about being hurt again by her. One more big drama outbreak like this and I don't think I could continue this relationship at all, which would probably end my husband's relationship with her out of loyalty, and would furthermore require her to find somewhere else to live...all while she still cannot even support herself. I have a lot of guilt about this, I feel bad for being suspicious of her motivations, I feel protective of my husband and of my relationship with him...
I...I don't know what to do about this. I am finally starting to feel more like myself after the most recent emotional explosion, accompanied by panic attacks, pain, and admissions of continued anger. She seemed angry and annoyed that I was angry with her for asking the question about my husband's children, but I still can't feel guilty for being angry that she asked. It seems like the sort of question you do not ask if you have respect for your boyfriend's marriage. I am trying very hard to slowly trust her again, to make gestures of good will, but it is very hard and I would be very grateful for the observations of experienced folk that are not involved in this situation (our therapist is wonderful, but we are the first polyfolk he has ever knowingly seen).
Thank you, all. I'm terribly sorry it took so long to get that all out there.