Poly What?

River

Active member
Those of us who have been on a years long poly journey of some kind know full well that there is quite a learning curve involved.

But one of the most astounding and amazing things many of us will learn along the way is that, depending perhaps on where we live, there's a very good chance our friends, acquaintances and family members haven't even BEGUN to learn about what we're learning about -- including even the five syllable word -- and what it refers to.

I had this experience this evening, in which I told a friend visiting my home that I was having a difficult day because one of the people I've been involved with has sprung it on me that he may not be around much longer. And that's why I'm choosing to stay home while the rest of y'all go out and have Halloween fun. He is and was an understanding friend, but he is and was also a typical person where I live -- a person who knows almost nothing about polyamory -- including even the word.

It seems to me that the notion of polyamory has grown in great strides in recent history, but still most people have little or no recognition of the word and it's meaning. Likewise, too many people treat our feelings as if they are trivial or uninteresting. "Why would you be sad? You have someone in your life who loves you and whom you love." -- as if our pain or losses in relationship are unimportant and irrelevant because, well, we have somebody already.

Such a thought seems reasonable and plausible until one has experienced another perspective -- a poly perspective.
 
Sorry to learn you've received this bad news, River. You have my sympathy.

I remember a few years back my straight brother being amazed that there was such a thing as an open marriage and that a couple he knew had one. As a gay man, where open relationships are nothing unusual, I was amazed at his amazement.

I guess if you're not poly yourself (or ever thought you might have been) and you don't know any people you know to be poly, it's not something that's going to cross your mind, hence the lack of understanding.

As with the gay rights movement, I think visibility is the key tool - once people know people with different relationship/sexual orientations to their own, that's when empathy and understanding grows.

One way to make people understand the emotions involved is to liken it to love for family members - no-one would think of trivialising someone's feelings for the loss of a sibling, because they had other siblings who were still alive.
 
I like to explain polyamory, or my way of it anyway, as monogamy plus. I have all of the feelings from monogamy, for two people. That makes my life richer and also a little bit harder.

Sometimes I explain that it is like having two best friends. You love them both dearly and if something happens to one of them, or in your relation to them, you are nok "ok" just because you have that other close friend.
 
One way to make people understand the emotions involved is to liken it to love for family members - no-one would think of trivialising someone's feelings for the loss of a sibling, because they had other siblings who were still alive.

I'll nit pick a moment on the word "make" here, but it's not that important, I suppose. I'll just say that we never "make" others understand things, though we can invite and encourage them to.

The comparison to siblings is apt. One could also compare with very close loving friends. Most people can relate to such. In my view, a loving "romantic" partnership is very much like a very close friendship, only slightly different (and probably including more sex). In both cases there is a bond.
 
I will very much advice against likening polyamory to having love for two or more siblings, children, parents etc. While it may make sense that you "love more", it also easily gives off a vibe of incest which is not an association you want people to make.
 
I will very much advice against likening polyamory to having love for two or more siblings, children, parents etc. While it may make sense that you "love more", it also easily gives off a vibe of incest which is not an association you want people to make.

I've heard the comparison to family and friends for a long time, and it never occurred to me to associate this analogy with incest, because it's just a rough analogy and the emphasis is on our ability to love multiple people. But maybe we should only mention friends, just so nobody twists things around in a weird way having to do with sex?Of course, I think of polyamory as something to do with love, not sex.

Will some people think, then, that we want to muddle up platonic friendship and sex? >sigh<
 
I think most people will associate it with sex because people usually have sex with people with whom they are romantically involved.

The title of this thread reminded me of a friend when he found out. He thought I was cheating on my wife. I explained to him that we were in an open marriage. He didn't get it because he is the possessive type in his relationship. Then, when I started dating Sprite he said I should move in with her because she lived close to the office. He uses women like that, I don't. I explained that it wasn't that kind of relationship; that she had a couple other boyfriends and a girlfriend. He still didn't get how everyone could be okay with this. I gave him an example: Sprite was going on a date with one of her BF's. They were double dating with BF's wife and the wife's BF. No jealousy, just two couples having fun. All he could think to ask was if they would then all go home and have one big orgy. Doh!
 
I've had people ask "Why did you bother to get married if you were going to have sex with other people?" Because apparently sex is the only component of a marriage, or of polyamory... I also had a friend tell me that she couldn't understand why Hubby "allows" me to do this, because she wouldn't even let her husband be friends with a woman he dated before they met. (And she thinks I'm the one who's messed up...)

I don't bother trying to explain polyamory, because at this point I generally only "come out" to people who I know already have an understanding of it or who will be tolerant enough not to ask ridiculous questions. I don't always use the word, though. I just say I'm married and occasionally have relationships with other men, where Hubby and my other partner know about each other and are accepting of the situation. Seems easier than trying to play dictionary.
 
I've had people ask "Why did you bother to get married if you were going to have sex with other people?" Because apparently sex is the only component of a marriage, or of polyamory... I also had a friend tell me that she couldn't understand why Hubby "allows" me to do this, because she wouldn't even let her husband be friends with a woman he dated before they met. (And she thinks I'm the one who's messed up...)

I don't bother trying to explain polyamory, because at this point I generally only "come out" to people who I know already have an understanding of it or who will be tolerant enough not to ask ridiculous questions. I don't always use the word, though. I just say I'm married and occasionally have relationships with other men, where Hubby and my other partner know about each other and are accepting of the situation. Seems easier than trying to play dictionary.

I read in your blog that you were upset with Hubby because he wants to keep it on the DL at work. I think this is exactly why. People act like idiots. That doesn't mean he's ashamed. It means he doesn't want to have to explain himself to people who don't understand.

My friend above kept going on and on about me "letting" Cat sleep with other guys. I finally told to him to shut up about it if he didn't get it.
 
It wasn't about Hubby keeping it on the DL at work. It was about him telling me to lower my voice when I was speaking in a normal conversational tone, outside, on a day when only two other people were even in the same area of the shipyard as us, one of them using a power tool and the other working on a dock several hundred yards away, meaning they wouldn't have been able to hear me in any case. No one who works with Hubby was there at all; he and I were the only ones.

It was also about his hesitating when I asked whether he was embarrassed, as if he had to convince himself that he wasn't. He says it isn't about whether *he* has to explain it; he claims he's worried about what people would think of *me*, and he refuses to listen when I tell him that first of all, what people think of me is my problem not his, and second of all, I really don't give a shit what anyone thinks other than him and my kids.

I agreed long ago not to talk about polyamory or my other partners to anyone in his family or any of his coworkers, so that wasn't his issue. He was worried about total strangers hearing me talk about one of my partners.
 
Just a heads up Matt, one hears all the time about people being told that though it is sad that they have lost a sibling or a child "at least you still have another one"

Leetah
 
Just a heads up Matt, one hears all the time about people being told that though it is sad that they have lost a sibling or a child "at least you still have another one"

Leetah

Wow! I used this as an example because I genuinely thought no-one would ever be so crass as to make this argument. Just shows how wrong you can be:(
 
I think it's going to be a long time before "polyamory" becomes a widely-known word. Heck how many polyamorists are there who don't even know there's a word for what they do (or want to do)?
 
I think it's going to be a long time before "polyamory" becomes a widely-known word. Heck how many polyamorists are there who don't even know there's a word for what they do (or want to do)?

Maybe. All of us LGBT folks thought, not so long ago, that we'd never see universal marriage rights in the USA in our lifetimes. So who knows.

I can say that in the 15 years I've identified as "poly" there has been a dramatic upsurge in public knowledge of this emerging tradition of discourse and practice -- using this term (polyamory) as a heading. If the graph line keeps swinging the direction it is swinging, we're talking about a dramatic shift in the culture concerning what the word "love" must necessarily mean.
 
I think most people will associate it with sex because people usually have sex with people with whom they are romantically involved.
Yes, while some people will think "love is an allcompassing thing you can feel for anyone", most people think about romance as sexuality and sexual jealousy and when you mention siblings it becomes very weird. People seem to be able to make the connection with friends more. Especially in my country where people don't really date before becoming a couple, many were friends before they married so equalling friendship and romance does not seem weird to most people :cool:
 
he refuses to listen when I tell him that first of all, what people think of me is my problem not his, and second of all, I really don't give a shit what anyone thinks other than him and my kids.

Except, people probably won't tell you. They'll tell him, and put him in the middle. At work, that's a very uncomfortable place to be if you don't want to rock the work boat.

This has been one of my "uncomfortable places" during my entire relationship with Chops, because during the first few months, I had friends explicitly tell me that he's "disrespecting me", and ask me how I could put myself through this, and "was he that good in bed?"

Ugh.

Chops got bent because people should ASK, rather than assuming anything. Ask him. Ask me. Ask Xena. See how the relationship is structured, etc.

But people, on the whole (with some exceptions), don't do that.

They talk to the person they feel is being wronged, in an attempt to help and be there for them. It's not unlike someone talking to a friend in an abusive relationship - they talk to the friend, not the abuser. And yes, there are those who feel that this is something close to an abusive situation, because they perceive you (well, me... or perhaps your Hubby) as being taken advantage of.

I tend to avoid that like the plague now. I have decades-long friendships that have suffered. I have other friends just not want to hear about him at all. And I have zero interest in inviting people's judgment against both me and Chops on a daily basis.

So no, you're not the only person who has to deal with others' opinions of you. If Hubby wants to avoid dealing with that, especially at work, I can understand why.

That said, it's not like I keep it a total secret. Some folks at work know (and I'm sure it's spread out a bit, rumor mill being what it is), but I like to think that, because I was INVOLVED in spreading that information, it gets across a little differently. Not sure about that, but that's my theory, anyway.

As for the main thread, it seems like every time I use the word "poly" or "polyamorous" or any variant, I get the, "Oh, so you all sleep together?" misconception. I then have to UN-explain, and RE-explain what the relationship structure really is. As a result, I don't use the word anymore. *shrug*. :rolleyes:
 
But again, as I said in my response to Vin's post... the issue was NOT about Hubby's workplace. I've agreed to be quiet about poly there and around his family. Also, as I stated in that response, Hubby himself said he isn't worried about what people will say to *him*, he's worried about what they'll say to *me*.

The issue was that I was talking about Woody to Hubby when he and I were ALONE. Yes, we were at the workplace, but NO ONE ELSE was. There were two people, people neither Hubby nor I knew, within several hundred yards of the shop, outside the building, one of whom was using a loud power tool, neither of whom could have overheard me speaking--but Hubby was afraid they would hear me.

Hubby was worried about two TOTAL STRANGERS who wouldn't have heard me anyway overhearing. His issue, as he stated, is that TOTAL STRANGERS might be dicks about me being polyamorous.

That's what I'm having a problem with. I don't give a shit what total strangers think. I don't really care what Hubby's coworkers or family think either, but I respect the fact that he does and have agreed not to mention poly in those settings. So no, it wasn't about people who know Hubby going to him about what I do in my spare time. It was about Hubby being worried about people he DOESN'T know finding out his wife fucks other men. That's what pissed me off.

I'm sorry for all the capitalization, but I thought I'd been pretty clear in my blog and in this thread that I AGREE with Hubby's request that people who know him don't find out, this was about people neither of us knows, who have zero impact or input into either of our lives, and since I'm in a cranky mood anyway, I'm getting a bit annoyed about having to keep repeating that.
 
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Yep, you're right. It's no excuse, but I read the thread first thing this morning and may not have been as awake as I should have been. The capital letters will at least help me read the words I'm supposed to. :eek:

At any rate, I left my coffee in the car this morning, and have been too damned lazy to go get it. That's top form for ya.

I relate to your second paragraph in your earlier post, though, even if I misread the later stuff:
I don't bother trying to explain polyamory, because at this point I generally only "come out" to people who I know already have an understanding of it or who will be tolerant enough not to ask ridiculous questions. I don't always use the word, though. I just say I'm married and occasionally have relationships with other men, where Hubby and my other partner know about each other and are accepting of the situation. Seems easier than trying to play dictionary.

This. Trying to correct other people's definition of the word gets tiring. I just say that Chops has two long-term relationships, he's not monogamous, and then I answer the questions that fall out of that.

For me, it relates to Vin's comment, somewhat:
I think most people will associate it with sex because people usually have sex with people with whom they are romantically involved

And I think it's what makes me very cautious about being open about my relationship structure in the workplace, as I would rather people's minds don't just jump to the sexual side of things once they think "poly". It's not fair that people don't think "sex" when you telegraph a nice, "normal" relationship structure, but immediately jump there when that structure deviates from the norm. It does happen, though, and I'd be bent more than Uri Geller's spoon drawer if my coworkers started looking at me in that light, rather than professionally.
 
Sorry if I sounded ranty. I completely understand the low caffeine thing! I think I hadn't had enough myself, to be honest.

It is annoying that some people assume sex when they hear relationship. In many cases it's a reasonable assumption, but not always. In my case, as I'm realizing through this discussion, in the cases where the "relationship" designation has been applicable, I haven't considered it a relationship unless sex has happened. But it's entirely possible to have a relationship where sex isn't a thing at all; I guess that's a matter of how you define "relationship" and the level of connection and commitment between you and the other person.

I'm frequently amused by some of the people I know from AdultFriendFinder; since Hubby and I opened our marriage, a few of those folks assume that every man I interact with (which is a fair few, since I tend to befriend men far more often than women) is someone I'm having sex with. Apparently since I'm "allowed" to have sex with other men, I must be boinking the lot of them.
 
Apparently since I'm "allowed" to have sex with other men, I must be boinking the lot of them.

Because CLEARLY it's the rules around relationships that keeps people from screwing everything that's not nailed down. :rolleyes:

It's kind of related to why it's so frigging aggravating to say, "Sorry, not interested," to someone and not have it stick because if you're available, then you MUST REALLY want a relationship with that person.

But I digress... :eek:
 
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