Religion, politics, sex .. and other taboo subjects

Sorry Spork. I don't have any toilet jokes. But I do have this:

2011-10-17-105.-Polyamory-and-the-Bible-138f8092.jpg


Source.
 
I heard a piece on NPR last week, & it's been bothering me. In it, someone said that it's up to the Progressives to "keep the lines of communication open" with the various-striped Rightists.

I disagreed strongly. And after consideration, I still disagree, strongly.

The implication is always that it's solely up to the Lefties -- & any remaining Centrists, I guess -- to "be reasonable," to "hear all sides," to negotiate, to compromise. As a result, the Neocons have knowingly dragged the conversation ever-Rightward since at least the mid-1980s, to the extent that a hardcore '60s Conservative like Barry Goldwater would nowadays be clearly a bit Leftward of Barack Obama (& I am NOT kidding).

Read up on GOP propagandist Frank Luntz --
he helped Gingrich produce a GOPAC memo that encouraged Republicans to "speak like Newt" by describing Democrats and Democratic policies using words such as "corrupt," "devour," "greed," "hypocrisy," "liberal," "sick," and "traitors."
No more. I believe it is immoral to even think about giving further ground.

Sure, be open to discussion. However, that assuredly DOES NOT mean caving in to someone's verbal abuse & threats of physical assault. That DOES NOT mean "supporting" them in parroting memes & slogans rather than thinking. It DOES NOT mean giving them "understanding" for brandishing LIES as superior to verifiable fact.

Better to turn around & walk clean away rather than retreat gracefully & gradually so as not to bruise a Right Wingnut's delicate little feelings. Tell them they're WRONG. If you have the nerve, tell them what they're saying is STUPID, something only a STUPID person would say.
 
I agree. The problem with a lot of lefties is a pathological need to not offend anyone. A lot also like to stay within their bubble, where any policy discussion is basically just an intellectual exercise. Then, suddenly, members of their own group are the enemy, ignoring the real problems of society.

Also, an inherent quality of people on the left is we ARE open to discussion. We are not like the mindless drones on the right who take their cues from what they are told by people like Fox talking heads. We question everything, including what we are told by our own people. And we (or at least me) are loathe to repeat falsehoods in order to push our agenda.
 
So for the most part, I have eliminated the most vocal and hardcore right-leaners from my social spheres, most significantly Facebook.

It could be said that I've created an echo chamber and thus done myself a disservice somehow, or unfairly "censored" dissenting opinions. I've seen internet trolls scream to the heavens about being blocked from pages because they were "being deprived of their Freedom of Speech!" What they are being STUPID AS FUCK about there is that "Freedom of Speech" as guaranteed by our Constitution, is more about not being jailed or punished by the government for speaking, with a few exceptions like slander and libel and inciting riots and such. But by and large, I can't be jailed for writing that I hate trump and think he's a horrible little orange abomination of an egomaniac who tries to grab unfortunate women with his creepy little hands and pays for beauty pageants because he likes to spy on young women changing clothes, the disgusting piggy pervert...and that's not even getting into his hair or his politics, both of which are famously insane... I can say this and not be arrested for it (yet!) and that's what our "Freedom of Speech" is about.

It isn't about being in a privately owned space shouting obscenities and being verbally abusive to others and not being asked to leave. And we do have the right to protect our spaces from trespasses.

I would not expect to be permitted to say those things, in the living room of trump, a friend or family member of trump, or even a supporter of trump.

If they threw me out of their house, they would not be violating my sacred right to Freedom of Speech. Freedom of Speech does not mean "everyone has to listen to me." You are free to speak, if only to a wall, or yourself. No one has to hear you.

And I do not have to listen to these jackasses, to know what their positions are, or that they exist. I am under no obligation to argue with them. I can defend my ideas and they can defend theirs, and neither of us is going to budge the other. The difference between us seems to be, one takes pleasure in assaulting the other with obnoxiousness, and one thinks the whole thing is a waste of time.

Unfortunately...I do still have a few lurking remnants of the right in my social life, notably (recently) a friend named Mark who was part of my pool team, gaming group, and the social bubble I swam in while I was married. A friend of my ex, from the old days. Given that most of those, my ex and his friends, are veterans or connected to the military, and yeah, they lean rightish. Or at best, libertarian...but a rightie-flavored libertarian, whereas I am a left-leaning libertarian-ish sort. Like, I'd be more liberal, but I have trust issues, is how I describe it.

So Mark and I got into it on the book of faces. *le sigh* All because he feels that people should not be allowed to transition genders, it is a mental disorder for which people should have mental treatment, and making "others" (him) pay in our premiums for insurance to cover such a nonsense surgical and medical procedure that is expensive because only a few specialists can even do it, and on and on...oh, it's so unfair.

I said, "I would prefer not to pay for what I consider to be exorbitant executive salaries. I don't have a say in that. I would prefer not to pay for boner pills or hair loss treatments or even prostate exams, since I'm a woman those things will never affect me. And yet. Everything I have listed has more of an effect on premium costs, than transgender surgeries do."

And he replied in detail about how executive salaries are only maybe 1% of what we all pay for insurance, if that, and demanded to know if I'm mad that they are rich, or because they are not poor, or what, and said that insurance is expensive not because of executive salaries, but because of high demand for insurance.

*sigh* Again though, he used what I said to drag attention away from his initial argument, which was to condemn transgender treatments on the basis that at the very least, "he shouldn't have to pay for them in any way."

See, it's a waste of time. I realized with some abruptness "why am I wasting my time" and went silent. Given how incredibly egotistical he is (he makes sure to inform everyone he meets, that he has a PhD and makes lots of money) I know that he views my lack of response as a "win." That I had no argument to come back with because he's right. I'm sure he feels very smug. I am equally sure that I do not give enough fucks about that, to keep wasting my time and energy on him.

That's the difference. That, right there.
 
But you know, anyone who enjoys comedy can at least appreciate the laughs, even if we're horrified about what is happening to get them.

That Domme in Denver that I have a crush of sorts on, Saskia of Pavlovia fame, wrote this for Facebook today:

Outside of the White House
All covered with sleaze
Sean Spicer's poor ego
Found shelter in leaves
It hid in the hedges
And wouldn't come out
Which forced Mr. Spicer
To answer in shouts

He shouted non-answers
While hiding from lights
While he and his ego
Had one epic fight

They rolled in the wood mulch
They battled with sticks
And after the press left
Were checked out for ticks
 
I haven't eliminated anyone. They've eliminated me...ha. I decided early on to not let them feel comfortable about their decision. Same goes for the dorks who refused to vote for Hillary because Bernie.

The thing is, I love a good debate. Especially when I am right.
 
I was just reading a post elsewhere written by a man who worked in the government under every president from Carter to Obama. He holds the view of the "pendulum swing." That we get a president from the right, then the left, then the right, etc. Bush, Clinton, Bush, Obama, Trump...that holds water. Before that, maybe not. But whatever.

Something occurs to me. As someone who is more liberal than conservative (especially on social issues)...and would prefer to see many of the left's ideals prevail such as marriage equality and even further progress in that regard, marijuana legalization, and yeah, even socialized healthcare...but CAREFULLY...perhaps... I look at the trump administration and for the first time EVER I begin to wonder if maybe this is a good thing, what we have in him.

Because so many Republicans don't take him seriously, or even oppose or hate him. Bear with me...just think if he were a well loved guy, someone that everyone could work with, BUT he was pushing hardcore conservative values and looking to tear apart everything the left had done. With more charisma and less crazy, he might just be able to get more and better results, and with more political savvy, those results might be done in such a way they'd be more likely to stick.

I have a feeling there will not, in the end, be enough mouthwash in the world to rinse the taste of trumpo out of everybody's mouths in a hurry, once we finally get him out of office. His actual support base, in my opinion and estimation, is pretty small. A lot of his voters only voted for him out of Hillary-hate or general party alignment, but did not really like him.

Despite the criticism of Obama, I saw and knew so many more people who actually liked him and supported him. Though the ones who hated him, thought that everyone hated him. I sit here thinking they were wrong, and hoping that in the case of the trumpster-fire, I'm not...
 
Today I note that the "Take Back America" meme is being claimed by a whole big bunch o' different groups, all over the political map. At the top of a Bing search, there's the anti-marijuana campaigners... conferences of the Eagle Forum shell group (the Forum having been founded to oppose the ERA, gay rights, & the MLB's recruitment of non-citizen baseball players)... a rallying point for people opposed to Trumponomics in whole or part... aaaaaand of course the 2016 campagn already being called somewhat chillingly The Cruzade.

I don't know who the f*ck the Wingnuts think stole America. But I do like the idea that now someone's gotta take it back from THEM, with THEIR tacit blessing. :D

Found a HuffPo blogpost for one LaMonte Fowler that cheers me up. Lolts of stuff suitable for your Facebook wall & all your signature lines. Highlights...
We don’t need to take America back. No one stole it.

n reality, we are ruled by an oligarchy. If you don’t know what that is, look it up. Reading will do you good. You probably need to do more of it.

Read lots of opinions and sources and then (stay with me here), THINK! Form your own opinion based on as many facts as your can brain can tolerate.

Speaking of facts... there actually is a difference between facts, opinions and propaganda. You should learn the difference.

Global warming ... IS REAL. Anyone who tells you it’s not real is not a smart person and probably should not be dressing themselves or caring for children.

American Christians are not under attack. We are not being persecuted. We wield so much power in this country that politicians pretend to be Christian just so we will vote for them. No one is trying to take your bible away from you. The gay people are not destroying our families — we don’t need any help from them, thank you. We do a fine job of that by ourselves. So stop saying we are persecuted. You sound stupid.

You don’t know what Common Core is. You think you do, but you don’t unless you’re a teacher. So stop complaining about math problem memes on Facebook. You can’t do the math anyway.

We do not need to rebuild our military. Our military is the strongest, scariest, most badass killing machine the world has ever seen.

If you feel you need a gun to protect yourself in America, you are probably living in the wrong neighborhood and should move before you go out and buy a gun.

If you do own a gun, then make sure you know how to use it really, really, really well. ... It’s a freaking gun and it deserves that level of care, proficiency and respect.

If you are even a little bit unhinged or pissed off... you shouldn’t have a gun. And the Founding Fathers would totally agree with me.

We are the United States of America, and we can afford to... house every homeless veteran, feed every child, and take in every refugee and still have money left over for Starbucks and a bucket of KFC.

Unless you can trace your family line back to someone who made deerskin pants look stylish and could field dress a buffalo, you are a descendent of an immigrant.
 
I find it disconcerting that countries outside Europe that are predominated by white people (e.g. USA, Canada, Australia, New Zealand) can have such a strong anti immigration stance sometimes. Our flags also have a lot of stars, which is totally a European (or maybe british colonial) thing. Look at other previously british colonial countries like India, South Africa, and all the rest of the third world. The majority of their population is still native and they don't have stars on their flag.

Seems to me that if you want to do a good job of colonizing a country, you do it right and wipe out most of their population. Just a disturbing thought I had about our forefathers today when comparing the countries of America, Australia and New Zealand against those others who still have a significant native population.
 
I've seen that picture but didn't notice the t-shirt until now.

This thread sort of died. Is that because there is too much to keep up with or because it is all just too bizarre for words?
 
Meh... I hear somebody offered to tame our dotard with fire. I was wondering if we could just air drop him in, or what...? And would it be on Pay Per View?

*sigh*

Politics, bleh. Gross.
 
The reason we are in the mess we are in.

Nuh uh. I voted. I'll still vote. I just don't want to sit around thinking about the horror of it all.
 
Nuh uh. I voted. I'll still vote. I just don't want to sit around thinking about the horror of it all.

OK, I'll buy that. I was thinking more of the apathy people have towards politics thereby living their lives in blissful ignorance of the world around them.

FWIW, I was sort of taken aback by your comment as I do see you as someone who is politically aware.
 
OK, I'll buy that. I was thinking more of the apathy people have towards politics thereby living their lives in blissful ignorance of the world around them.

FWIW, I was sort of taken aback by your comment as I do see you as someone who is politically aware.

The more aware I am, the more disgusted I am, particularly in the last, oh...I dunno...year or so. I had my criticisms of President Obama, and some of the legislation he passed was in my opinion flawed in ways I was suspicious of, however...my god do I ever miss that man's dignity, and that of his family.
 
The more aware I am, the more disgusted I am, particularly in the last, oh...I dunno...year or so. I had my criticisms of President Obama, and some of the legislation he passed was in my opinion flawed in ways I was suspicious of, however...my god do I ever miss that man's dignity, and that of his family.

I am disgusted by his followers who heap praise on him as if things are the way it should be. It boggles the mind.

Cat campaigned heavily for Obama and was very active in politics. She became very jaded after Obama was elected. She ended up taking a break. As much as I miss her I'm glad she never saw this. I wish I never saw it.
 
In order to not derail another thread --

There's no good reason for polyamory to somehow be made into a movement, & in fact I've gone on record speaking against "activists" who make such noises.

Likely outfall: Monogamists use this as a rallying point to revitalize monogamy by stirring up the 98% of the population that's stuck with it -- much as the Weird Right has convinced "po' white trash" that their lives suck only because they're being actively discriminated against by everyone who's not "po' white trash." Every inherent problem with monogamy can then be blamed on us subversives; certainly, most vees & "open couples" will shelter on the Monogamist side.

People attempting to practice nonmonogamy in their life should focus on learning HOW to best practice nonmonogamy. Once everyone has a grasp on that, I'm certain the tree-hugger stuff (peace, harmony, unity, brotherhood, free healthcare, universal education...) will fall into place. :D

I hope you're not suggesting that everyone involved in poly-amorous relationships has to fall on the "left" side of the contrived political spectrum. Personally, I grew up "po' white trash" and part of that has stuck with me even though I've moved up in the world. :D

I've never really understood how a particular relationship style is expected to dictate a person's politics as well. It would seem logical that lesbians (how I have generally identified myself) would be able to come together to stand for their rights and ignore their other non-related political beliefs while they are together in common cause.

I hope you're not suggesting you're so naive as to be unaware of how "I hope you're not..." is a passive-aggressive gambit...? :p

Firstly, it helps to do research, even the teensiest little bit. :rolleyes: Of course, many Wingnuts might make the case that The American Conservative is a Pinko LibRuhl Lying Mainstream Media rag, but here's an op/ed on "White Plight" & some similar articles:
"The Invisible Poverty of 'Poor White Trash'"

Anyway, what would Righty Utopia look like? A free gun for every citizen? (No free food, of course, because THAT is Socialism!!) Evangelical preachers at "advisory" positions running every court & public office, approving all films & TV shows?

Yes, polyamory is biased toward Lefty liberal Commie Socialism. In part because modern Rightist "individualism" is actually authoritarian & even dictatorial, which don't align at all well with the ACTUAL individualist. The Leftward fit is not great, but veryVERY few people are able to embrace anarchism or voluntary communalism so that's where they run out of steam. ;)

To put it another way, it's not that Leftist sentiments are better soil for polyamory, so much as that it's somewhat less bad than the self-delusion required by today's Rightism.

People who find authoritarianism sexy ought to stick with closed threesomes or polyfidelity or communalism. My bias is that those who don't LOVE obeying commands from Big Mommy/Daddy or the Supreme Council will actively dislike such control as they are forced to notice -- there's really not any "take it or leave it" fence-sitting.

My experience since 1986 is that Lefties can work well with people possessing a wide range of beliefs with which they don't personally agree. On the other hand, mention casually to a Trumpanista that I voted for Bernie in the primaries, & within two minutes they're getting in my face (literally), waving a finger at me, telling me I'm unpatriotic & probably have black friends, & more than once shouting at me.

Once again, the GOP has control of the White House AND the House of Representatives AND the Senate AND the Supreme Court AND 34 of the Governor seats... & once again THEY CAN"T DO SHIT ABOUT SHIT.

And the Wingnut peons blame "Democrats" for this gross ineptitude. :confused: Why? Because that's what Fox News & Facebook tell them to believe.

Rightists have had the brains bred right out of 'em, like turkeys, which Ben Franklin once admired for their wiliness & cunning. :(

Polyamory (as a practice) is NOT friendly to the stupid, the self-blinded, the gullible. QED.
 
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