Polyamory.com Forum  

Go Back   Polyamory.com Forum > Polyamory > Poly Relationships Corner

Notices

Reply
 
Thread Tools Display Modes
  #1  
Old 02-26-2010, 10:35 PM
SchrodingersCat's Avatar
SchrodingersCat SchrodingersCat is offline
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Feb 2010
Location: Saskatchewan
Posts: 2,078
Default swinger-poly-couple questions

Ok. So. I hope I can write this so it's coherent. I'll try point-form...

- We met 3.25 years ago at a fetish event, I was openly polyamorous, he was just playing the field with no emotional relationships

- As we grow closer, I start feeling like I'd like to close off the relationship while we learn to be a couple and deal with the issues that are normal in any serious/live-together relationship, of which this was a first for both of us

- So we close off the relationship and live monogamously for 3 years

- Fast forward 3 years to January, when things are going really good and solid between us, and I start feeling like I'd like to get back into the "poly waters"

- Over the past week, when I've been spending a lot of time on this forum, he's been really quiet, uncommunicative, and a little bit grumpy... which always tells me that he's got something on his mind that he's not ready to talk about yet.

---side note: he grew up in a dysfunctional family where you weren't allowed to have feelings, never mind talk about them, and even after going through tons of counselling, he still has a lot of trouble talking about how he's feeling and telling me when he has a problem. I can usually tell and I try to give him time to chew it over because he always comes and talks to me when he's ready---

- Finally last night, he tells me what's been on his mind. He's really happy for me to be looking for a girlfriend, but says of himself "I don't know about this whole poly thing" i.e. that he loves me dearly and doesn't have any desire to be in any other romantic relationships

---another side note: he had never had a relationship which lasted longer than 6 months because it was never "worth it" in his mind to deal with problems and emotions, he would just bail. But with me, with the connection we share, all of that changed and he has learned and grown so much in terms of dealing with my "very emotiveness" and in terms of him allowing himself to have emotions. So at the extreme opposite of polyamorous I would have called him "nonamorous" before we got together and "monoamorous" now---

- last night, he told me that he's been thinking about and desiring to have casual sex with strangers. Aside from the "how safe are condoms really" issue, I have some concerns, mainly:

- I'm concerned about the "psychological health" of random, detached sex with strangers. In my mind, that was something he did when he was an emotionally unhealthy person with low self-esteem and he used sex as a way to feel better about himself via his ability to please women

- I'm a wee bit irked that this comes on the heels of our relationship growing out of the honeymoon stage, where having a fulfilling sexual relationship now requires a little more effort to create the mood, find the energy, etc... And when I've been saying for the past few months that although I am satisfied with our sex life, I would love it if we had sex more often. So part of me is feeling like "how come you want to have sex with other people when I'm wanting to have more sex with you"

- I'm also wondering if any of his desire is triggered by my wanting to get back into a polyamorous lifestyle and him feeling envious that I would get more relationships, but that since he doesn't want more "relationships" he's responding by wanting sex with strangers, since that was basically his M.O. before we got together


Any thoughts, feelings, opinions etc that anyone can offer will be greatly appreciated. Don't pull any punches, I want to consider everything with an open mind.
__________________
Gralson: my husband (works out of town).
Auto: my girlfriend (lives with her husband Zoffee).

The most dangerous phrase in the English language is "we've always done it this way."
Reply With Quote
  #2  
Old 02-26-2010, 11:08 PM
Ariakas Ariakas is offline
Moderator
 
Join Date: Dec 2009
Posts: 2,830
Default

Quote:
- I'm concerned about the "psychological health" of random, detached sex with strangers. In my mind, that was something he did when he was an emotionally unhealthy person with low self-esteem and he used sex as a way to feel better about himself via his ability to please women
Its possible he still feels this way...He is with you, and is comfortable but may still feel that need to prove it to himself...

Little opening up here, no matter what my wife tells me, or shows me about my ability and how much fun we have, I still have the inherent need to please other women, and know it...while it is no where near as manic as it was when I was single, I can definitely tell you its there. I LOVE to please women. While I don't crave it like I used, when I get the chance to do it, it feels great, more than likely better for me than the girl.

Quote:
Originally Posted by SchrodingersCat View Post
- I'm a wee bit irked that this comes on the heels of our relationship growing out of the honeymoon stage, where having a fulfilling sexual relationship now requires a little more effort to create the mood, find the energy, etc... And when I've been saying for the past few months that although I am satisfied with our sex life, I would love it if we had sex more often. So part of me is feeling like "how come you want to have sex with other people when I'm wanting to have more sex with you"
Thats tough for any of us to guess at. My reasoning for wanting sex with others could be as different as your partners. It could be the idea of freshness, the craving of the new energy, new exploration. Maybe he is craving the initial lust felt with a new person...unadulterated sexual desire.

Depending on what hes looking for (walking into a bath house, or actually finding someone to hook up with) it could be the hunt (I know I will take crap for that phrase, but I am being blunt about it, and its the only word I can think of to encompass what I mean). I don't read much about it in the poly world, but as a single guy, the hunt was half the fun on both sides. The flirting, talking, making out and finally getting what you both want. Having someone there that you care and love, but offers up no real challenge in the end (I hate roleplaying so that doesn't supplement the need). I know our ex loved the hunt, considered everyone she was able to get a conquest.

I don't understand the bath house/key party idea, just walking in and finding...anyone...to have sex with. So if thats what he wants, I can't relate or help.

Quote:
- I'm also wondering if any of his desire is triggered by my wanting to get back into a polyamorous lifestyle and him feeling envious that I would get more relationships, but that since he doesn't want more "relationships" he's responding by wanting sex with strangers, since that was basically his M.O. before we got together
It might be related. It might be he has been thinking it for a while but has been sticking to the mono thing as it was working. Open up one barn door the other might swing open with a big enough wind...
Reply With Quote
  #3  
Old 02-27-2010, 08:35 AM
SchrodingersCat's Avatar
SchrodingersCat SchrodingersCat is offline
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Feb 2010
Location: Saskatchewan
Posts: 2,078
Default

From another thread:
Quote:
Originally Posted by redpepper View Post
I feel as though I separated myself in order to have sex with people that do not care for me, do not cherish me, do not see my worth but merely saw me as someone to use for sex. I didn't know them or even feel a connection. I prostituted myself. I think a lot of women do that because they think it dictates their worth...I did that to me... it sends shivers down my back. I am worth so much more.
I just read this in another thread, and it raises another concern. Besides my concern about my husband's psychological health of having sex with random strangers, I'm not very comfortable with the idea that some of the women he might have sex with would be in the above kind of emotional state. I feel that, by supporting it, I would be an "accessory" to the objectification of those women. And my husband openly admits that part of his desire is objectification. Yikes!

I want to support him if this is what he truly wants, but I'm seriously starting to question the wisdom of it. I would be more comfortable with him having fuck buddies or something. I know that a lot of the women who go to bars to be picked up by strangers are not in positive emotional places, and I'm worried about getting wrapped up in all of that... On the other hand, women at the bar to be picked up are going to be picked up by someone, and they would be safer in my husband's hands than some creep's...
__________________
Gralson: my husband (works out of town).
Auto: my girlfriend (lives with her husband Zoffee).

The most dangerous phrase in the English language is "we've always done it this way."
Reply With Quote
  #4  
Old 02-27-2010, 04:21 PM
GroundedSpirit GroundedSpirit is offline
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Nov 2009
Location: New England USA
Posts: 1,231
Default

Hi Cat,

You've clearly identified some of the concerns & potential issues. Each situation and person is unique and you know your husbands workings better than anyone.

As long as you can stay emotionally unattached to the issue itself and keep being observant & analytical you can make it a no-harm exploration. And in the end, everyone will know each other and themselves better.
There can be a lot of reason as you alluded for someone to be attracted to new sex partners. Some are pretty valid & harmless. Other can be more concerning. (emotional health) It isn't the "desire" in and of itself that warrants big conversations - it's more the "why" of them.

Unlike some poly couples, in our relationship we acknowledge the place for "sex only" fun in our lives. Sometimes it's for no better reason than variation. Sometimes it might be for a particular fantasy or itch that we maybe can't scratch as well ourselves. No big deal. But if it were to become some compulsion that caused complications in our relationship, we know we can sit down and hash it out.

As far as the objectification, I think that door swings both ways. And I know there are people emotionally intelligent enough to be able to slip in and out of being "objectified" without damaging their psyche. We are both that way. But we have fulfillment outside that model so it doesn't present such a threat. That debate to me/us is largely philosophical anyway. Other are more fragile.

So in a nutshell, exploring may be necessary anyway in the long run. Just be awake & sensible and keep talking !

GS
Reply With Quote
  #5  
Old 02-28-2010, 05:30 AM
redpepper's Avatar
redpepper redpepper is offline
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Apr 2009
Location: Canada
Posts: 7,632
Default

I think there is no way of telling what is going on for the women that he is seeking. My version of what happened to me when I was sexually promiscuous and casual with sex is not the same as everyone else. I was forcing myself because I thought that was what was expected of me and that I would not be accepted and included in what is going on culturally right now around sex. Other women won't struggle with this... I did and do.

(just a thought to all those guys who think they are "pleasing" a whole bunch of women? I faked every orgasm I had and was not pleased at all. In fact I was disgusted.... sorry, but you may not be pleasing them at all, what might be pleasing is that they are appreciated for a deep meaningful conversation and a good laugh over your objectifying their body and licking their clit until you think they have cum.)

Do I think that casual sex is becoming far too common place? Yes, I think it is a bit of a free for all for men these days with the atmosphere of "slut culture" and "sex positive" ways of looking at things. I think that people are not getting a balanced view of things and that they make decisions based on what is going on culturally around sex not what might be best for them...

What do we do about it... I don't know? plain and simple. I guess the only thing to do is make sure that he knows what it is he is interested in and why... is he wanting to fill some gap because you are going about looking for another partner? Then that would be a red flag for me that would need some talking about. It isn't a competition. Is he just taking advantage of his position in a situation? ie. some drunk girl who thinks that the only way to fit in is to fuck as many guys as she can? then ya, another red flag... is it that he has a group of female friend that want to extend their friendship with him because it would be fun...? not so big a flag.

It's up to you to decide and then communicate until you are both understood. After he has played around a bit I am sure there will be more talk again.... always the communication. Checking with his gut instinct before engaging in sex with someone and not his cock might help... (don't tell me men can't do that, because I don't believe it. They know as well as I do what feels right and what doesn't)

It could also be that the two of you are just very different sexually. Sometimes that can happen that two people get together and find that they are. I have certainly learned that I don't want poly partners that take sex casually as having fun. Others are able to. I am just not. Everyone has their own way of dealing with things and you will have to decide how you will. Does it affect you to your core values, or just it just make you nervous...? lots of questions and lots of answers only you know.
__________________
Anyone want to be friends on Facebook?
Send me your name via PM
My blog
Reply With Quote
  #6  
Old 02-28-2010, 04:08 PM
NeonKaos NeonKaos is offline
Custodian
 
Join Date: Apr 2009
Location: new england
Posts: 3,221
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by redpepper View Post
I faked every orgasm I had and was not pleased at all.

I have to jump in on this. I have always been amazed and amused by this. Women faking orgasms. I have never faked an orgasm in my life and cannot wrap my mind around WHY someone would do such a thing. I am the only one who can "have" my orgasm and faking it does no favors for the person i'm with and would not fool me into thinking that I had one when I didn't. I wouldn't fake an orgasm while masturbating and I wouldn't fake one with someone else. I've been with guys who have had difficulty climaxing from time to time and i wouldn't expect them to "fake" it just to protect my "fragile" ego (not that they could do so as easily as a female could).

I could say a few more things, but my husband is calling me to go out to breakfast now :P
Reply With Quote
  #7  
Old 02-28-2010, 04:31 PM
GroundedSpirit GroundedSpirit is offline
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Nov 2009
Location: New England USA
Posts: 1,231
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by YGirl View Post
I have never faked an orgasm in my life and cannot wrap my mind around WHY someone would do such a thing. I am the only one who can "have" my orgasm and faking it does no favors for the person i'm with and would not fool me into thinking that I had one when I didn't.
I think this is insightful.

It highlights one of a number of misperceptions about sexuality that people have.

We ASSUME sex is all about orgasms !

We ASSUME our partners think sex is all about orgasms !

Throw out those two assumptions and sex takes on some new & interesting aspects

GS
Reply With Quote
  #8  
Old 02-28-2010, 06:12 PM
SchrodingersCat's Avatar
SchrodingersCat SchrodingersCat is offline
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Feb 2010
Location: Saskatchewan
Posts: 2,078
Default

I've never faked an orgasm either, for exactly the reason you mentioned. Plus, if I fake it, how am I going to teach him how to actually get me off? Or anyone for that matter. It's not doing the female population any good to teach a whole bunch of guys to think they're king shit in bed when really they're about as much fun as sticking a fork in a receptacle. If I've ever been with someone and he just wasn't any good and I was bored, I usually pretty much pushed him off and said "I think I'm done now" and if they asked whether I came, I just said "no."

The people who really take time to learn a woman's body can tell if she has an orgasm. We may not squirt out sticky white goo (although sometimes we can) but there are a lot of physical signs, muscle contractions and the like. It's really not that hard to feel a woman's orgasm, if you're paying attention.

And if you are in touch with energy, like tantric practices, there's a whole other level on which you can feel an orgasm, and then take that orgasmic energy and feed it back into them to make the sky open up and see stars
__________________
Gralson: my husband (works out of town).
Auto: my girlfriend (lives with her husband Zoffee).

The most dangerous phrase in the English language is "we've always done it this way."
Reply With Quote
  #9  
Old 02-28-2010, 07:02 PM
Ariakas Ariakas is offline
Moderator
 
Join Date: Dec 2009
Posts: 2,830
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by SchrodingersCat View Post
I've never faked an orgasm either, for exactly the reason you mentioned. Plus, if I fake it, how am I going to teach him how to actually get me off? Or anyone for that matter. It's not doing the female population any good to teach a whole bunch of guys to think they're king shit in bed when really they're about as much fun as sticking a fork in a receptacle. If I've ever been with someone and he just wasn't any good and I was bored, I usually pretty much pushed him off and said "I think I'm done now" and if they asked whether I came, I just said "no."
Keeping in mind, sometimes orgasms aren't physical but mental of course ...I have had the...misfortune... of being with a woman who has never orgasmed with a partner...it almost shattered me that I couldn't help her orgasm but it just wasn't happening...while I would never claim to be king shit...there are times when even people good in bed, just can't bring the girl to orgasm for other reasons...

Quote:
The people who really take time to learn a woman's body can tell if she has an orgasm. We may not squirt out sticky white goo (although sometimes we can) but there are a lot of physical signs, muscle contractions and the like. It's really not that hard to feel a woman's orgasm, if you're paying attention.
Absolutely. While I have enjoyed a squirter, which makes things obvious, the signs of an orgasm are usually there.

Quote:
Do I think that casual sex is becoming far too common place? Yes, I think it is a bit of a free for all for men these days with the atmosphere of "slut culture" and "sex positive" ways of looking at things.
These days? and men only?...maybe I live in a different world but the decade hasn't changed what happened in the 80s and going back as far as the 70's. My uncle was a slut (definitely a non ethical one) and he definitely sowed a lot of oats throughout many decades. Obviously no stats, but assigning a timeline to the current "sluthood" misrepresents itself imo.

And why are you referencing men specifically. Again maybe it is my generation/area (I do interact with a lot of international women, so maybe that makes the difference)...but women I know, including my wife, used and abused the slut culture as much as any guy I know, in fact, I would be willing to bet they abused it more. Women hold the magic key, they can go anywhere, when they want sex and get it. Period...if a guy wants it, we have to work..and work...and work to hopefully, maybe get some action. I don't see a free for all for guys at all.

Maybe I misunderstood what you meant, but in the world I live in, it seems 100% the opposite of what I know.

As for fake orgasms, as a guy, I hate them. I have experienced them and quickly asked the woman why bother and/or what to do. When I was 17 I was not familiar with the womens body and needed training...I think the woman appreciated that I didn't accept her fake orgasm, learned my lesson and moved along. I tend to gravitate to women who know exactly what they want, where and aren't afraid to talk about it. That level of openess needs to be taught to everyone
Reply With Quote
  #10  
Old 02-28-2010, 07:07 PM
NeonKaos NeonKaos is offline
Custodian
 
Join Date: Apr 2009
Location: new england
Posts: 3,221
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by SchrodingersCat View Post

The people who really take time to learn a woman's body can tell if she has an orgasm. We may not squirt out sticky white goo (although sometimes we can) but there are a lot of physical signs, muscle contractions and the like. It's really not that hard to feel a woman's orgasm, if you're paying attention.

And if you are in touch with energy, like tantric practices, there's a whole other level on which you can feel an orgasm, and then take that orgasmic energy and feed it back into them to make the sky open up and see stars
Indeed. Don't get me wrong, there are PLENTY of times when I've had my orgasm(s) and been "finished". There have even been times when my partner has either "finished" theirself or gone without climaxing. But even when I'm trying real hard to come and can't seem to do it, I have no compunction about calling off the fucking and letting my partner know whether or not I had an orgasm. This holds true whether it has been a situation of "casual sex" or sex within a committed relationship.
Reply With Quote
Reply

Tags
casual sex, sex, swinging

Thread Tools
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off

Forum Jump


All times are GMT. The time now is 09:58 AM.