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  #111  
Old 07-26-2014, 03:41 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by loveboston View Post
A pagan is someone who rejects your love even if you healed them of their sickness, fed them when they were hungry and died to protect them from religious bigots who claim to be doing god's work when they harm or kill innocent people.
Where on earth do you get that definition of pagan?

I do not believe the word pagan was in the Bible. It is a Latin word meaning country person. Pagans could be, and were, quite religious. Roman Catholic Christians eventually converted "pagans" to Christianity by force, and "pro-pagan-da."

I think it was many Jews who were depicted in the stories in the gospels to have rejected Jesus. Not people practicing the state religion of Rome at the time (ie, worshiping Zeus and the other Olympic pantheon). Romans could, and some did, worship Christ as one of the pantheon.
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  #112  
Old 07-26-2014, 02:12 PM
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Default Pagan

I gave you my paraphrase of what I think Jesus was referring to when He used the word pagan.

A wolf in sheep's clothing is what I think of. A really mean person who pretends to be nice.

Matthew 10:13If they still refuse to listen, tell it to the church; and if they refuse to listen even to the church, treat them as you would a pagan or a tax collector

When I think of a tax collector I don't think of a country person having fun in nature.

We should look up the Greek to see what the word pagan meant when Jesus used it.
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  #113  
Old 07-26-2014, 02:42 PM
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Actually that one verse on which you base your understanding of "what a pagan is," to a Greek speaking Jew of the 1st century, is Matthew 18:17. Not 10:13.

It's easy to look up various translations of Biblical verses on Bible Gateway online.

http://biblehub.com/matthew/18-17.htm

Various translations use Gentile, unbeliever, one of the nations, or "an heathen man" (lol KJV). The Greek word would have been most accurately been translated as Gentile, which, in Hebrew, is goy, meaning, merely, a non-Jew. So, in this case, Jesus is made to say, settle a dispute with a troublesome Jewish "Christian brother" (one who sins) by speaking to him privately, and if that doesn't work, by taking it to the religious community (gathering, ie: ecclesia, which we rather loosely interpret as "church"). If that doesn't work, "Jesus" recommends cutting this troublesome person out of the ecclesia, considering them no longer a part of the fledgling "Christian" community.

A pagan/Gentile/non-Jew did not then, and does not now mean "really mean person" "who rejects your love even if you healed them of their sickness, fed them when they were hungry and died to protect them from religious bigots who claim to be doing god's work when they harm or kill innocent people."

Also, a Roman "pagan" would not be someone "having fun out in nature." Country people were, and often still are, hard working farmers and animal breeders, not vacationers.

And sure, we all hate paying taxes, but a tax collector is not a Gentile by definition. Gentiles and tax collectors are just examples of someone you'd want to avoid.

loveboston, you sure do have a unique take on Biblical interpretation.
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Love withers under constraint; its very essence is liberty. It is compatible neither with envy, jealousy or fear. It is there most pure, perfect and unlimited when its votaries live in confidence, equality and unreserve. -- Shelley

me: Mags, 59, living with:
miss pixi, 37
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  #114  
Old 07-26-2014, 02:52 PM
DebbieandRay DebbieandRay is offline
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Default We Are Poly and Christian.

Me, my husband, my oldest boyfriend and his wife and my most recent boyfriend and his wife have attended the same church for years. My boyfriend's wives have never had a problem with their husbands and me being lovers. And my husband has never had a problem with me having other lovers. We are very open and honest with each other.

Before I learned about polyamory, I only dated one guy at a time. It was my husband who introduced me to polyamory. I liked the idea and had been in love with my best friend for many years, but because he was married, I knew he was off limits. I struggled for years being in love with a married man, but I knew he meant a lot to me and I was in-love with him.

One night when we were at my best friend and his wife's house, my husband brought up polyamory. My boyfriend's wife stated that she had heard of something like polyamory and felt that it seemed like a very loving lifestyle. My husband horrified both me and my best friend by asking my best friend's wife if she would ever be willing to share her husband with another woman. To our surprise, she said, "If that woman were someone like Debbie, who I love and trust . . . yes I would."

My boyfriend's wife added, "You two have known each other for years. I have trusted you two to be alone and often thought that there may be more to your friendship than you let on, and I have never had a problem with that." We talked more on the subject of polyamory and me and my best friend's relationship. We admitted that we both had deep feelings for each other and that we had never done anything with each other, romantically or physically.

My boyfriend's wife said that she had seen the way we looked at each other and how our hugs were more than just friendly. She also said she knew it was only a matter of time before we had a discussion like we were having, and she felt that it was about time we did. My boyfriend's wife gave us her full blessing to date and even be lovers. It didn't take long for us to be intimate, but it was a while before me and my boyfriend felt comfortable kissing each other in front of my boyfriend's wife. I have considered my boyfriend my second husband for the last seven years now.

Several months ago another married man, who attends our church, approached my husband. He mentioned to my husband that he noticed that me and my boyfriend were very close, possibly closer than just friends. When my husband asked this other man what he was implying, he stated that he and his wife were talking about opening their marriage and he was hoping that he hadn't misread our relationship.

That afternoon, me, my husband, my boyfriend and his wife, this other man and his wife went out to lunch together. We talked about this other couple's desire to open their relationship and how any of this was reflected or talked about in the Bible. We talked for some time, then both the other man and his wife stated their true reason for bringing up their desire to open their relationship. The other man told us that he had been attracted to me for some time and his wife had been attracted to my boyfriend for even longer.

Me, my husband, my boyfriend and his wife spoke in detail of what we understood polyamory to be and what it meant to us. The other couple told us that there was an initial physical attraction, but they had hoped there would be more. I ended up going out with the other man and my boyfriend went out with the other man's wife.

Since that day we have been one big extended family. We still attend the same church together. I have my husband and two boyfriends. My second boyfriend's wife has a husband and a boyfriend. Me and my boyfriend have loving legal spouses. And we have had some younger couples come to us and talk to us about how we have some way figured some things out.

My husband has recently started dating a younger woman, who also attends our church, who's husband has been talking with my husband for sometime. This younger husband's interest was in cuckolding. The younger man's wife admitted that before the two of them had married that both of them had saved themselves for marriage. Having been married for a year, both of them realized that the wife's sex drive was much higher than her husband's sex drive.

The younger husband told my husband that he was very attracted to his wife, but the sexual desire just wasn't there. We told both the younger husband and his wife that poly is more than sex. It is about romance, trust, honesty, friendship and love. My husband's relationship with this younger couple was originally along the lines of cuckolding, then it became more. My husband found that he actually had deep feelings for this younger wife.

Although my husband's relationship with this younger couple is still kind of a cuckolding relationship with the husband, the love that this younger wife and my husband feel for each other is evident. When we attend church together, we all sit on the same pew. Facing us, from the right to left, you see my oldest boyfriend's wife, my husband's girlfriend, my husband, My oldest boyfriend's new girlfriend, my oldest boyfriend, me, my newest boyfriend and my husband's girlfriend's husband.

Just last Sunday our pastor approached all of us and told us that we were living examples of what Christ taught. When we asked what he meant, our pastor told us that we seemed to be the go to people for the younger and even some older congregants. He said that we don't see color or age or gender or culture, but instead express love in how we live. He even said that it was evident that we put Christ first in all that we did. And we all agreed.

We are still not sure what our pastor meant when he said, "It's obvious that you all have a special love and bond with each other. You have something other people may not understand or accept, but God's love is evident in each of you." We liked what our pastor had to say, but we are not sure what he really knows about us.

To us Poly is about loving. And that is what Christianity is supposed to be about as well. Why anyone would see the two not being connected is a mystery to us.
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  #115  
Old 07-26-2014, 04:24 PM
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Because to many, many self-styled Christians (more than would admit this), Christianity is supposed to be about tradition (first and foremost).

I am glad you guys are finding yourselves in a loving, unjudgmental place of worship. What church is it if I may ask? Is it Unitarian Universalist? I know there are some other open-minded branches of Christianity as well.
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  #116  
Old 07-26-2014, 05:24 PM
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Wow, I really loved your story DebbieandRay. It's beautiful.
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  #117  
Old 07-26-2014, 08:57 PM
DebbieandRay DebbieandRay is offline
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The church we attend is a non-denominational Christian church. A lot of younger people attend this church.
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  #118  
Old 07-27-2014, 12:02 AM
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Ah, yes, that does sound right. Well I'd say you've found a keeper. I really like the pastor so far.
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  #119  
Old 08-18-2014, 03:17 AM
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LadyManda LadyManda is offline
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Question Why do we exist then?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Magdlyn View Post
Actually I have done away with belief, faith and hope in my life. I find them useless concepts.
I am very new to poly and I consider myself a Christian so it is very encouraging to see that at least some Christians are accepting of polyamory! As I read through this thread, this quote by Magdlyn stood out to me...this seems strange to me...maybe it is bc I am a Christian I find it hard to wrap my head around...

...You have done away with belief, faith, and hope. This makes me pose the question: Then what does it mean to be human? Why do we exist?

It is something I have been pondering a while now and this thread has brought it to the forefront. If we have no faith (in anything, bc IMHO even atheists have some form of faith), no belief in something and no hope at all then why should I care about me, or anyone else or the world or life at all? What would be the point?

Why are faith, belief, and hope useless concepts?
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  #120  
Old 08-18-2014, 06:57 AM
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Maybe Magdlyn is living in the Now?
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