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  #11  
Old 04-01-2014, 11:21 PM
Tonberry Tonberry is offline
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Yeah, the children argument is one of the most stupid ones. If two people of the same sex shouldn't get married because they can't procreate, why was it legal for my grandfather to remarry, when his second wife was way past menopause? And should people take tests before they get married to make sure they're not sterile, in which case the right would be removed? What about people who don't want children, are they not allowed to get married either?

All these people are allowed to marry even though they can't or won't have children. So quite obviously, being able to marry has nothing to do with whether you can have children or not.

Not to mention in the US, adoption by same sex parent is allowed in many places where marriage isn't. So the people who want to get married, in many cases, already have children. I fail to see how it's good for the children that their parents aren't allowed to get married.
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  #12  
Old 04-02-2014, 12:18 AM
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I would definitely say that gays have it worse than polys, however I'm just as sure that polys experience persecution which, while not on average being as severe as anti-gay persecution, is certainly comparable to anti-gay persecution in the sense that it is fundamentalists' way of trying to pressure people into living the "right" way (that is, as red-blooded God-fearing church-attending heterosexual monogamists).

It would be an overstatement to say that poly is the "new gay." First of all because gay people's struggle for rights and equality is far from over (e.g. especially in Russia and parts of Africa, and same-sex marriage is a major legal and ideological battleground in the U.S.). But it does seem likely that once gay people do have their due rights, then the fight for poly rights will be next on the agenda. And I suppose there'll be (or rather already is) some overlap between the two battles.

Note that when (I'm an optimist) poly marriage is legalized, many poly people will decline to take advantage of it, because it's not their style to cement themselves that much to a particular poly partner. Though we (read: we = our great-great grandkids maybe) may also see a complexification in marital law where people have more options as to which and how many ties a given marriage will entail.

Just some thoughts,
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  #13  
Old 04-02-2014, 05:15 AM
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SchrodingersCat SchrodingersCat is offline
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Even though I'm poly, I disagree with legalizing multiple marriages. It would provide advantages to poly people that are not allocated to mono people. For example, having multiple people on your health insurance, receiving multiple tax breaks, etc. I would prefer to see the abolishment of marriage as a legal institution, allocating no special legal rights to people just because they live together and/or signed some paperwork. Then poly people and mono people alike are free to live with and commit to whomever they wish, without any other members of society paying an extra premium for their life choices.

Even though I enjoy the tax benefits and free dental care provided by being married to someone with health insurance through his job (being Canadian, I already have free basic health coverage), I fully acknowledge that it's basically bullshit. I'm not the one who works there, why should I get the health insurance? And why should single hard-working citizens pay "more" tax than my husband just because they aren't married to someone who's making crap wages as a grad student? He's basically getting paid to invest in my future earning potential.

The underlying assumption for declaring your unemployed spouse as a deduction is that they're home with your kids. I don't have kids, and many people who claim this deduction do not have underage kids either. Meanwhile, the people who could really use that tax break, i.e. single parents and minimum-wage earning young bachelors, are not getting much help at all. Where's the logic there?

The difference with gay people is that they just want what everyone else has: the right to marry the one person they choose to marry and claim them on their taxes and/or health insurance.
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Old 04-02-2014, 05:58 AM
Tonberry Tonberry is offline
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I'd be fine with each person being only allowed to have one person on their health insurance. However, if you can add unlimited kids, it seems weird that you could only add a single adult. But sure.

I think the health system is completely broken in many countries. Everyone should have health coverage, employed or not. Until it works that way, though, being able to add someone is definitely helpful for people who are unemployed or homemakers (with or without children). I would be in support of it having nothing to do with marriage, so that you could have a friend on your health insurance for instance, while your spouse is on their own because they have one too.

If I could marry a second person, though, I have to be honest, I couldn't care less about things like health insurance. I don't need to be on two people's health insurance (or three if I include my own). But allowing my partners to visit me at the hospital, giving them the right to speak for me, that kind of things, that would definitely be nice. I'm fine with creating contracts for that replacing marriage, but I think people would probably still call them marriages.
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Old 08-15-2014, 01:54 PM
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While I am part of the "identity" camp, I don't want to speak for those among our number who are in the "choice" camp.

Part of my realization as a bisexual woman was realizing that I was in complete denial of my sexual identity because I was a serial monogamist with many long-term relationships with men. Coming to terms with my ability to have romantic/sexual attraction, intense emotional connections, and even love for multiple people helped me come to terms with my bisexuality.

I don't think polyamory is a direct comparison, because we are not a targeted minority for persecution; and I think this is mostly because many of us can "pass" because of the heterosexuals and bisexuals among us.

I think SchrodingersCat has a good point about stoning, but I wanted to elaborate a bit further: how many times have you had the "cheating" accusation thrown at you from people who don't understand polyamorous relationships? I have had this accusation thrown at me from homosexuals and heterosexuals alike.

Living with a third adult when you are married is illegal in most parts of the country, even though it isn't enforced. I agree that we don't have it nearly as bad as other minorities. I wouldn't even go so far to say that we are a persecuted minority. But I am very concerned with the laws on the books that make parts of poly life illegal.

My fiance wants to get into politics, and he's not a die-hard liberal. Let's be honest, there are plenty of journalists on both sides of the aisles who would love to ruin a politician's career if they aren't heteronormative and entirely liberal.

I want to have the conversation about polyfidelity, multiple marriages, in the terms of marriage equality. To date, none of my liberal, LGBT-friendly friends and acquaintances will even have that conversation. I don't care about tax breaks and insurance benefits. I'm okay with having one spouse benefit from those things. I just want it to be legal for multiple people to marry, and for it to not be illegal for poly folks to live with their lovers or spouses. I want poly folks to be able to visit their spouses in the hospital, to have funerary rights, not to worry about losing parental custody, etc.
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  #16  
Old 08-15-2014, 10:10 PM
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kdt26417 kdt26417 is offline
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Re:
Quote:
"I just want it to be legal for multiple people to marry, and for it to not be illegal for poly folks to live with their lovers or spouses. I want poly folks to be able to visit their spouses in the hospital, to have funerary rights, not to worry about losing parental custody, etc."
Right on.
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