Are we going about this the right way?

portmanteau

New member
I am in a very new situation and I just want some outside perspectives. I guess that we're doing this the right way and things might be okay. I made an anonymous post on a mainstream forum and things did not go well. I am told I should see the other side of things in a place like this. I am so sorry for the novel in advance, but I don't know how to get your opinion without providing the full picture.

TLDR version: I'm starting a relationship with my best friend. We talked it to death with our husbands and everyone is on board. But, our marriages aren't perfect and I have concerns and want to make sure we're going about this the right way.​

So, this is the situation. My best friend and I are both married and we have children. We have been friends for about four years. We have gotten progressively closer and I guess she had overt feelings that she talked to her husband about starting around the beginning of this year, like 9 months ago. Then, three weeks ago, she confessed this to me. We had previously flirted but I always felt it was mostly joking, not really on the table. Because well, husbands and kids and families, etc. I was just trying to process what she had told me when I told my husband the next day and before even hearing anything about my feelings, he was very "go for it." To be clear, it would be nothing with him or her husband and he isn't interested in that. He was saying that he was not jealous, thought he had lots of time to experiment and have different relationships in his youth and I didn't, you've never been with a woman, etc. I was still reeling.

And then for the last three weeks we have done tons of talking. Talking and talking and talking to each other and our husbands. Trying to make sure we are all on the same page and nobody feels forced into anything. We both got the immediate go ahead from husbands but hesitated anyway, or actually, at least I hesitated. Wanting to make sure that they were sure over and over again.

Two nights ago, she kissed me. We kissed. It was gentle and sweet and we were doing a lot of face stroking, etc. There was so much talking leading up to that moment. We did all the what-ifs many times over with everyone.

We each talked to our husbands since then and they are still alright with everything, they say.

We are planning to watch each other's children for date nights with our husbands this Friday and Saturday and we are going out tomorrow night (mainly because I need to go shopping for some professional clothes and things without kids, but I'm guessing it will feel date-ish). We are trying to make sure nobody feels neglected.

I feel like we did a lot right by the standards of polyamory blogs, etc. that I've been reading. We weren't trying to force anyone or cheat.

EXCEPT, the guideline we may have violated is "work on your marriage first." Our marriages aren't perfect. They aren't awful either. We're both best friends with our spouses (and each other). We both coparent well with our spouses, enjoy each other's company, laugh, etc. However, we both have a history where our spouses broke our trust. To be clear, each of us had a husband break our trust. Cheating, or what felt like it amounted to cheating, via online messages. It was the dishonesty that hurt most. Our incident was three years ago. He moved out briefly, we went to therapy, did trust building exercises, etc. Hers was more recent and they are still working on things, but amicable. And we seem to be amicable also when we are all together. We have stayed over at each other's homes many times (before and after the confession and talks started) and have happy chats and interactions with each other's husbands. Also, my husband and I have sex less often than the average couple. We do have sex and enjoy it when we do, but he has a low drive compared to most men and a busy work schedule to boot. We are always very intimate and touchy, but make time for sex less often than most people.

Anyway, final back story, my parents are in a polyamorous relationship of sorts and have been for 17 years. They don't call it that or talk about it at all, but my parents moved in a woman and her two daughters when I was 8. They are still together. It hasn't been perfect in many ways but nobody's life was torn asunder, I don't think.

So, these are the kinds of comments I'm getting that give voice to all of my fears, so any feedback there?

"I just don't think there's room in a marriage for another person. I think some men I initially feel no threat from another woman however it is a threat in many ways. Both of your marriages are lacking something and that's what you think you'll get from each other but it rarely works out that way. Your friendship will forever change and you're taking a risk of losing that friendship. I think in most cases the men will end up feeling threatened and it will be a bigger deal than they think right now. I just don't think it's worth the risk especially when that risk can affect your children. Is a relationship with someone other than your husband worth risking their happiness, stability and well being? Of this goes bad that's exactly what will happen."

And another, from the same person, "This is going to open the door for your husband to have a relationship outside of your marriage and you really have no room to say no or object to that. It seems like he's smart in saying it's no problem. He knows her, you already spend time with her so it's no big deal but now he gets to find someone else too. Only his wont be with a guy he's already friends with. It will be with a woman who is a threat to your marriage. Him not objecting makes some sense now. "

She says, "Wait whoa, no. Our kids are okay. Our husbands are okay. How can more love be bad? How can somebody else loving our kids be bad?"

I said, "I mean, it was all stuff that we talked about from all sides already, but it was a negative voice to my fears."

Thoughts? Are we on the right page for this? :confused:
 
People who have been "burned" in a polyamorous situation, or those who don't understand polyamory, are likely to give comments like the ones you've quoted. You said this was advice from a mainstream forum? I'm assuming that means the person who gave you the advice isn't polyamorous, particularly given the "I don't think there's room in a marriage for another person" comment. Obviously you're hearing from someone who would shoot down any type of poly relationship because of their own biases, so why even let their words stay in your brain long enough to type them here? Their very first sentence tells you there's no chance of them saying anything positive about your situation. They're giving you worst case scenarios stated as fact but based solely on their opinion.

Yes, your friendship with your friend will change. There's no question about that. Any friendship changes at least somewhat when sex is added. For that matter, friendships that stay purely platonic usually change over time. But that doesn't mean it's going to change in a bad way. It's just as possible that your feelings for each other will deepen, you'll become even more supportive of each other than you already are, and you'll have a long, happy relationship.

As for affecting your children, you're proof positive that a polyamorous arrangement can have zero impact, or even a positive impact, on the children of the people in the relationship. Which is another point...you've asked for advice on two anonymous forums, but have you tried talking to your parents and the other woman who lives with them? If it were me, they would have been my first resource. You know them personally, and they're actually in a poly situation.

Again from the anonymous other poster: They *think* men will end up feeling threatened when their wives have another relationship. *Think*. That, again, is an opinion. In the past two years, I've had relationships with other MEN, at one point had two boyfriends in addition to Hubby, and Hubby has yet to ever feel threatened. Yes, some men are threatened when their wives have other relationships. But not every single man whose wife is poly will react that way.

You said she's been talking to her husband about it since the beginning of the year, and your husband is on board with it, you're taking steps to ensure that each of your husbands has your time and attention...why would they be threatened? Just keep an open line of communication with the husbands so if they do start to feel that way, or feel jealous or whatever, they have the freedom to say so to you in a calm way so it can be discussed and handled.

And yep... in theory, each of your husbands could find another partner. But that doesn't mean they will. Given what you say about your husband particularly, I wouldn't think he would be interested in a second partner, but if it happens, you set the same boundaries and plans and have the same type of discussion you've had to establish your relationship with your friend. If one of the husbands finds a second partner, that doesn't mean they're going to leave you for her. If the husband in question is polyamorous, or at least polysexual, why would he leave his wife? He can have both. And another woman wouldn't necessarily be a "threat to your marriage," particularly if she, herself, is poly and in another relationship.

You say you've talked about these issues from all sides already with your friend and your husbands. I know fear isn't a rational emotion, and you feel how you feel, but I'm not sure why you're letting the anonymous words of someone who says flat out that they don't believe polyamory can work affect you deeply enough that you're questioning the judgment of the four people who are directly involved in your situation.

Those posts? Just like this one, they're just words on a screen. If they're helpful, you take them into consideration. If they're bullshit, you do what you always do with shit... flush it and move on.
 
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Those posts? Just like this one, they're just words on a screen. If they're helpful, you take them into consideration. If they're bullshit, you do what you always do with shit... flush it and move on.


Clap, clap, clap!

Sounds like the only issue here is your fear, portmanteau, and believe me, I understand how that shadow can loom large. Everyone longs for a great situation and a great person, but sometimes it is that very wonderful thing that stirs our deepest fears. You're looking for validation and that is just fine, but just remember that the online comments that touch you are only touching you because they resonate with what is alive within you already. So words of caution will hurt, words of encouragement will soothe - only because they reflect your own thoughts. The key to peace here is to spend some time getting to know what is true and right for you. You'll know it because it feels lovely.

Poly can be a beautiful thing, but only for people who are open to its beauty. You and your loved ones are obviously open to the beauty of "more" and because that feels so right for you, focus on that. Your fears will rise and recede but the more you focus on what feels lovely and right, the more predominate that will become in you, crowding out your fearful thoughts. It's all about what's active in you and not really about what other people think or the advice they have to offer.
 
Like the previous posters have already said, I wouldn't take what the people on the other forum said too much to heart. That being said, be wary of designing your new open relationship with husband too much around the new romantic interest you have with your friend. I think it *is* quite likely that your husband will also want to explore connections with others, and so you should definitely be talking about that possibility with him now rather than on an 'if it happens' basis, when it might blind-side you both by feeling uncomfortable and sudden. You too might also meet someone else you connect well with in future - maybe another guy - and you should be clear on whether this is something he would be okay with too. There is a big difference between him agreeing to participate in an open relationship with you when you are dating your best friend, versus him agreeing to an open relationship with you if you come in time to want someone else (or things don't work out with this girl). You need to be clear now exactly what it is he is agreeing to, because sometimes when there is a specific scenario on the cards, it overshadows the hypotheticals.

Personally I found it much easier making changes to my relationship with my partner if they weren't just to enable her to see one person in particular. Especially since I was effectively in your husbands shoes - she had a relationship ready to go whereas I was unsure if I would a) want a relationship of my own, or b) could even find a suitable relationship given my pre-existing commitment to her. When I stopped thinking of it as 'things I must sort out to enable them to have a relationship' and started thinking of it as 'things we must sort out to enable both of us to have relationships with others', things went more smoothly. So figuring out our boundaries and values and how we wanted to conduct ourselves more generally when we ceased to be monogamous was much more helpful to both of us than us just focusing on her and what behaviours were and weren't acceptable with her new lover.

It does sound like you have a pretty good start though. If the disparity in your sexual drives is the only source of conflict between you, I'd say that is unlikely to cause too much upset. You may even find his desire for you increases if things turn sexual with your friend, whether he starts a relationship himself or not. There tends to be a positive feedback loop for many of us where some of that new relationship energy can seep into our existing relationships, so he might reap some rewards of a more chilled out, sexy-feeling, happy you. Even something as simple as him feeling under less pressure to satisfy you because he knows you are getting some sexual relief elsewhere can be enough to make him more relaxed and open to sex too. Everyone is different.

Basically, you are doing the right thing by thinking about this in depth. Keep talking to him about what you both want, take things really slowly with her, try to be a good friend to everyone involved by always assuming good intentions (you will all make mistakes at some point, so carrying extra goodwill in your heart can make that more bearable). Perhaps encouraging him to ask questions and do his own research might be a good idea, and then discuss whatever comes of that. This is a new thing for both of you to explore, and you can't do all of the thinking/processing/worrying for everyone. If you can, avoid second guessing his wants and fears (or hers) and just get more in the habit of asking, and then believing the answer. Any other strategy seems destined to drive you crazy. :) Best of luck with it!
 
Your approach sounds fine to me.

The main thing is dealing with other people comments and dealing with your fears.

OTHER PEOPLE COMMENTS

Don't take this anon commenter's fears on board for yourself or to fuel your own fears. Talk back to the fears. One at a time with a dose of reality.

I just don't think there's room in a marriage for another person.

That is correct. It is illegal to marry more than one person in most places. One can have a commitment ceremony though.

I think some men initially feel no threat from another woman however it is a threat in many ways. Both of your marriages are lacking something and that's what you think you'll get from each other but it rarely works out that way.

That is correct. If you need hugs from all partners, getting hugs from your GF is not getting hugs from your husband. It will not meet your hubby hug need. You have to talk to him directly about that.

Do you have an expectation that your GF is supposed to "make up" for what you are not getting from hubby? No? Then throw this sentence out.

Expect you to talk directly to each partner about what you want/need from that partner. They are not interchangeable.

Your friendship will forever change and you're taking a risk of losing that friendship.

That is correct. The friendship will have expanded to include romance. That is a change.

Risk of a friendship ending is there all the time. She could get run over by a bus. She could choose to stop participating. So the risk now is still risk like before. No need to blow it up out of proportion.

I think in most cases the men will end up feeling threatened and it will be a bigger deal than they think right now. I just don't think it's worth the risk especially when that risk can affect your children.

See above. Husband can get run over by a bus. Husband can choose to stop participating in his marriage. YOU could get run over by a bus. You could stop participating in this marriage. The risk is there before, and it is there after. No need to blow it up out of proportion.

DO make your wills and list who takes care of the kids if both parents are under the bus. Or divorce. Get that life stuff in order so how the kids are affected is laid out and minimized/handled appropriately.

DO talk about how you want things to end should this relationship with the new GF break up. Are all parties in agreement for a "good ending" and how you all would handle that? Back to couples? Everyone single? Then you can relax that a plan is in place.

Is a relationship with someone other than your husband worth risking their happiness, stability and well being? If this goes bad that's exactly what will happen.

Is your husband not able to speak up for himself? What has he said? He said he is fine with it. After a while this will become regular ol' life for you guys. Having observed your parents in their polyship, have they basically been living regular ol' life? Sounds like it to me. Keep in mind support boards are for those needing support. Poly people living regular ol' life are off busy leading regular ol' life.

In the event of a break up, have you all got a plan? Sounds like you could talk that out... then...yeah. There's a plan in place and expectations for how that would go.

"This is going to open the door for your husband to have a relationship outside of your marriage and you really have no room to say no or object to that.

It's called consent. You always have room to say "No. I am not willing to participate in a poly network with more people. I do not consent."

This commenter sounds used to not exercising consent. This commenter sounds used to having things used against them in a relationship. Don't take this commenter's stuff on board for yourself.

Instead talk to your husband and clarify this area:

Does he want to date anyone else right now? No.

Should he change his mind later, how would you handle it?
  • Is it a deal breaker? Say so up front now if it is.
  • Is it something that could change over time? Clarify.

You guys have talked a lot... so keep talking.

It seems like he's smart in saying it's no problem. He knows her, you already spend time with her so it's no big deal.

He said he is fine. Could believe him that he's ok with it.

but now he gets to find someone else too.

Nope. Not without your consent. This commenter sounds used to being exploited by their partner. They expect partner to offer something "with strings" and keep looking for the strings.

In your life? You don't control him. He could go off. But if he does not obtain consent first, he is not acting in good faith. He is cheating on current agreements. And he could not be surprised if you are not eager to welcome him back after he chooses behavior like that. You don't have to stay. You control your "staying-ness."

Again... keep talking. Talk about what is "cheating on agreements" at this point in time since the agreements are changing. Be clear. And what the consequences are for each of you should one of you cheat on agreements.

Only his wont be with a guy he's already friends with. It will be with a woman who is a threat to your marriage. Him not objecting makes some sense now. "

Is your husband bi? If not, why would he date guy friends? And why would dating guy friends be ok when husband has not even obtained consent first? :confused:

Look, this commenter believes a lot of wonky things about husbands.

  • That husbands cannot be trusted to speak up for themselves. Husbands cannot be trusted when they speak in general.
  • That husbands are not responsible for creating their own happiness. Wife has to make it so for them.
  • That husbands are not stable and will fly off the handle at anything. Wife has to be on guard and "keep them stable" by arranging the World to their liking for them.
  • That husbands are not responsible for their own well-being. Wife has to do it for them and anticipate their needs and caretaker them.
  • That a husband would only agree to this so he can use it against you later to override consent in order to gain access to women who would threaten you. (Ie: Husbands only give things with strings, are not respectful, and cannot be trusted not to pick out nut jobs)

I don't know what kind of marriage this person has or had, but this person has some sexist beliefs (Husbands are big babies wives have to tend). It's blowing fog on your channel. So stop listening to this stuff. If you have actual fears of your own, list them.

YOUR FEAR

To me it sounds like you are voting "no confidence" in believing your husband's word that he is truly ok with this. To me that sounds like YOUR fear when all this "commenter fog" is blown away.

To be clear, each of us had a husband break our trust. Cheating, or what felt like it amounted to cheating, via online messages. It was the dishonesty that hurt most. Our incident was three years ago. He moved out briefly, we went to therapy, did trust building exercises, etc.

You have had all these talks together and he keeps saying YES. It sounds like you are afraid he's being dishonest again.... not really telling the truth.

Well, if you have done all the work in therapy and trust building, sooner or later you have to risk trusting him in order to complete the job of healing. You have to risk being hurt again and find out... NO doom happens. Your trust in him was well founded. He holds up his end of the stick now. And then your confidence in believing him at his Word can grow. Over time you can feel secure in his Word being consistent.

You are not going to grow that confidence if you don't risk giving it some time and space for it to happen IN.

It feels scary to risk being vulnerable sometimes, but there it is. You have to take the risk in order to come out the other side. Hanging back? You are not completing that healing job. 95% there, but not 100% past that old incident.

It's nice to enjoy the NRE with your new GF, but don't neglect your other relationship with your spouse. Finish the job.

That would be my suggestion.

CONCLUSION

  • Talk about how you would like this to end if people stay together AND if people all want to be separate. If it goes well and if it does not go as hoped.
  • Talk about changing agreements again if people change in time -- like husband wanting to date also. How would that be handled.
  • Make sure your papers are done for the kids -- wills and divorce agreements and whatever else. All sorted NOW with cool heads and not really needed vs trying to do them later with hot heads.
  • Finish healing from previous cheating by risking trusting husband at his Word. Grow your confidence in him having and keeping his Word.

I could be wrong... but I suggest you think about talking some more with your people.

Galagirl
 
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Hi portmanteau,

It seems to me that you are taking an adequate amount of caution for what you are planning on doing, and no, your marriage doesn't have to be perfect before you can try polyamory. Don't take too much stock in what that one person on the mainstream forum said. Just keep exercising caution, and keep the channels of communication flowing. I think you'll be fine.

Sincerely,
Kevin T.
 
Thank you.

You're right, fear isn't always rational. This is all so new that there are a lot of fears cropping up though, the most salient of which for her and I are that our kids will somehow be negatively affected. Her husband is a little worried about her splitting her time and putting enough energy into their marriage as well. But otherwise, he seems very supportive. Mine doesn't seem to have any worries or fears, he's so chill it's ridiculous, but he's like that about most things. I seem to take on worries for him and think about all the what-ifs.

There are a few reasons I haven't consulted my parents. One is that it's all so new. In the same way you don't introduce a boyfriend after the first kiss, I didn't want to share this just yet. They know each other already, but I mean sharing the relationship status. Also, despite their situation, it's very possible and even likely that they'll have some disapproval. Hypocritical though it may be, parents, especially my mother, are good at being critical of their children's choices, big and small. Lastly, my parents don't know or use the word polyamory, they don't talk about their relationship status, and, though we lived together, I was 17 before I knew for sure. I have a memory of them freaking out when we were 9 in the grocery store and said something like, "People might think you're lesbians." And, even as an adult, when I referred to their relationship status in front of my husband and my sister's boyfriend, it was a big deal. As if it is a state secret. IDK why they thought we hadn't already told our husband and boyfriend, respectively. They took it like sharing what they do in the bedroom, which wasn't at all the case, as I don't know anyway and don't want to. Just in the past couple of years have we spoke openly referring to it and I am turning 26. There is even sometimes some weird stuff between them all, even after like 17 years together. Like recently my dad told me, "I paid off the house, but don't tell anyone, especially B." So, despite their whole situation, I'm not sure that they are the most "groovy" people to ask for advice.

The affect on children I'm worried about isn't so much to do with us being in a relationship, it was more about the potential for this whole thing to cause a divorce in one or other family. I don't think it will, but that was the fear that the person brought up in me.

Thank you so, so much for the response. It helps to have the views of people who won't write it off right away like in that other forum.

People who have been "burned" in a polyamorous situation, or those who don't understand polyamory, are likely to give comments like the ones you've quoted. You said this was advice from a mainstream forum? I'm assuming that means the person who gave you the advice isn't polyamorous, particularly given the "I don't think there's room in a marriage for another person" comment. Obviously you're hearing from someone who would shoot down any type of poly relationship because of their own biases, so why even let their words stay in your brain long enough to type them here? Their very first sentence tells you there's no chance of them saying anything positive about your situation. They're giving you worst case scenarios stated as fact but based solely on their opinion.

Yes, your friendship with your friend will change. There's no question about that. Any friendship changes at least somewhat when sex is added. For that matter, friendships that stay purely platonic usually change over time. But that doesn't mean it's going to change in a bad way. It's just as possible that your feelings for each other will deepen, you'll become even more supportive of each other than you already are, and you'll have a long, happy relationship.

As for affecting your children, you're proof positive that a polyamorous arrangement can have zero impact, or even a positive impact, on the children of the people in the relationship. Which is another point...you've asked for advice on two anonymous forums, but have you tried talking to your parents and the other woman who lives with them? If it were me, they would have been my first resource. You know them personally, and they're actually in a poly situation.

Again from the anonymous other poster: They *think* men will end up feeling threatened when their wives have another relationship. *Think*. That, again, is an opinion. In the past two years, I've had relationships with other MEN, at one point had two boyfriends in addition to Hubby, and Hubby has yet to ever feel threatened. Yes, some men are threatened when their wives have other relationships. But not every single man whose wife is poly will react that way.

You said she's been talking to her husband about it since the beginning of the year, and your husband is on board with it, you're taking steps to ensure that each of your husbands has your time and attention...why would they be threatened? Just keep an open line of communication with the husbands so if they do start to feel that way, or feel jealous or whatever, they have the freedom to say so to you in a calm way so it can be discussed and handled.

And yep... in theory, each of your husbands could find another partner. But that doesn't mean they will. Given what you say about your husband particularly, I wouldn't think he would be interested in a second partner, but if it happens, you set the same boundaries and plans and have the same type of discussion you've had to establish your relationship with your friend. If one of the husbands finds a second partner, that doesn't mean they're going to leave you for her. If the husband in question is polyamorous, or at least polysexual, why would he leave his wife? He can have both. And another woman wouldn't necessarily be a "threat to your marriage," particularly if she, herself, is poly and in another relationship.

You say you've talked about these issues from all sides already with your friend and your husbands. I know fear isn't a rational emotion, and you feel how you feel, but I'm not sure why you're letting the anonymous words of someone who says flat out that they don't believe polyamory can work affect you deeply enough that you're questioning the judgment of the four people who are directly involved in your situation.

Those posts? Just like this one, they're just words on a screen. If they're helpful, you take them into consideration. If they're bullshit, you do what you always do with shit... flush it and move on.
 
Thank you, that's really lovely. I'll try my best to adjust my focus. I'm perhaps an anxious person in general, so that contributes. Long hours alone with my insomnia sometimes cause me to question everything. Those moments when I am together with her leave me more at ease though. It feels more natural then. And even conversations with my husband help. For instance, tonight I touched based yet again. Is it all okay still? Any worries or concerns you want to talk about? "Are you going to leave me for her?" he asked in a nonchalant I-already-know-the-answer way. Of course the answer was no. "Okay, I'm all good then. Let me know if anything changes."

Clap, clap, clap!

Sounds like the only issue here is your fear, portmanteau, and believe me, I understand how that shadow can loom large. Everyone longs for a great situation and a great person, but sometimes it is that very wonderful thing that stirs our deepest fears. You're looking for validation and that is just fine, but just remember that the online comments that touch you are only touching you because they resonate with what is alive within you already. So words of caution will hurt, words of encouragement will soothe - only because they reflect your own thoughts. The key to peace here is to spend some time getting to know what is true and right for you. You'll know it because it feels lovely.

Poly can be a beautiful thing, but only for people who are open to its beauty. You and your loved ones are obviously open to the beauty of "more" and because that feels so right for you, focus on that. Your fears will rise and recede but the more you focus on what feels lovely and right, the more predominate that will become in you, crowding out your fearful thoughts. It's all about what's active in you and not really about what other people think or the advice they have to offer.
 
Thank you so much for your response! I am really appreciating reading everything that you have to say here. I definitely needed perspective. I'm going to respond within your text just to show the points I'm responding to more clearly.

Like the previous posters have already said, I wouldn't take what the people on the other forum said too much to heart. That being said, be wary of designing your new open relationship with husband too much around the new romantic interest you have with your friend. I think it *is* quite likely that your husband will also want to explore connections with others, and so you should definitely be talking about that possibility with him now rather than on an 'if it happens' basis, when it might blind-side you both by feeling uncomfortable and sudden. You too might also meet someone else you connect well with in future - maybe another guy - and you should be clear on whether this is something he would be okay with too. There is a big difference between him agreeing to participate in an open relationship with you when you are dating your best friend, versus him agreeing to an open relationship with you if you come in time to want someone else (or things don't work out with this girl). You need to be clear now exactly what it is he is agreeing to, because sometimes when there is a specific scenario on the cards, it overshadows the hypotheticals.

Personally I found it much easier making changes to my relationship with my partner if they weren't just to enable her to see one person in particular. Especially since I was effectively in your husbands shoes - she had a relationship ready to go whereas I was unsure if I would a) want a relationship of my own, or b) could even find a suitable relationship given my pre-existing commitment to her. When I stopped thinking of it as 'things I must sort out to enable them to have a relationship' and started thinking of it as 'things we must sort out to enable both of us to have relationships with others', things went more smoothly. So figuring out our boundaries and values and how we wanted to conduct ourselves more generally when we ceased to be monogamous was much more helpful to both of us than us just focusing on her and what behaviours were and weren't acceptable with her new lover.
Hmm, I'll mull this over but I'm immediately feeling that this doesn't resonate with me. Mainly because other people definitely don't feel on the horizon for me and if it doesn't work out with her, I'm not sure that I need anything else right away or ever. It's not so much that I went looking for something else, it just found me. And pursued me for a while. lol. It may be that at some point in the future he wants to be with someone else, but he claims that he can't even picture it right now. He's too busy and focused and uninterested in maintaining so much as a friendship. I have said for our entire relationship that if he did form feelings for someone, I'd rather we talk about it and come up with a plan than lose our relationship over it. So, I'm hoping he would only continue to know that's the plan. My main concern would be the fear that random commenter brought up in me. This new person doesn't just want what my friend and I want- to continue relationships with our respective spouses while forming a new one- but wants a divorce and remarriage and the whole nine yards. So, that would have to be our biggest boundary. That this person is someone who isn't looking to disrupt our family. I have a hard time imagining him maintaining another relationship though. Perhaps sex someday or maybe he'll surprise me.

It does sound like you have a pretty good start though. If the disparity in your sexual drives is the only source of conflict between you, I'd say that is unlikely to cause too much upset. You may even find his desire for you increases if things turn sexual with your friend, whether he starts a relationship himself or not. There tends to be a positive feedback loop for many of us where some of that new relationship energy can seep into our existing relationships, so he might reap some rewards of a more chilled out, sexy-feeling, happy you. Even something as simple as him feeling under less pressure to satisfy you because he knows you are getting some sexual relief elsewhere can be enough to make him more relaxed and open to sex too. Everyone is different.
This is really salient right now! I think this is happening, in one sense at least. I'm not sexual with my friend... dare I say, my girlfriend <3 (you can see how new this all is) yet. I don't know how that will evolve. But, the part about a more, relaxed sexy-feeling me may already be true. I think I had some lingering feelings around rejection. Though he claims he's been attracted to me throughout, those times when I came onto him and he didn't reciprocate stung. So, I haven't. I really haven't overtly come onto him in a long time. I just patiently wait for his initiation, sometimes few and far between. Ridiculous, right? But, I didn't even fully realize I was doing it unconsciously until a conversation with her. Then, all of this is leaving me just a little more energized and amorous, as you said. So, I did initiate, for the first time in a long time, literally a few hours ago. It was really good and he said, "I like when you take charge." So, yeah, I think that energy is being spread around in a positive way. She recently said that she initiated sex with her husband too, and they have the inverse of our problem, he is more interested in sex than she is in general. So, maybe there are benefits for everyone? Here's hoping.

Basically, you are doing the right thing by thinking about this in depth. Keep talking to him about what you both want, take things really slowly with her, try to be a good friend to everyone involved by always assuming good intentions (you will all make mistakes at some point, so carrying extra goodwill in your heart can make that more bearable). Perhaps encouraging him to ask questions and do his own research might be a good idea, and then discuss whatever comes of that. This is a new thing for both of you to explore, and you can't do all of the thinking/processing/worrying for everyone. If you can, avoid second guessing his wants and fears (or hers) and just get more in the habit of asking, and then believing the answer. Any other strategy seems destined to drive you crazy. :) Best of luck with it!
I definitely need to be better at not assuming everyone's worries and fears and believing their answers. That is me. I seriously doubt he'd be interested in doing any research and I don't think he has any questions. He's so relaxed, it's ridiculous. He's relaxed about me, he's relaxed about her, he was about 1000x more relaxed than I was when I told him about our first kiss (even though it was all okay'd before hand, it still made me so nervous to talk about). He is the most calm and comfortable of the four of us, I'd say.
 
Wow, I'm so grateful for your response! You took apart her argument, piece by piece. You helped me deconstruct it. Thank you so much!

Your approach sounds fine to me.

The main thing is dealing with other people comments and dealing with your fears.

OTHER PEOPLE COMMENTS

Don't take this anon commenter's fears on board for yourself or to fuel your own fears. Talk back to the fears. One at a time with a dose of reality. This is the perfect approach for the way that I think! Thank you!



That is correct. It is illegal to marry more than one person in most places. One can have a commitment ceremony though.



That is correct. If you need hugs from all partners, getting hugs from your GF is not getting hugs from your husband. It will not meet your hubby hug need. You have to talk to him directly about that.

Do you have an expectation that your GF is supposed to "make up" for what you are not getting from hubby? No? Definitely no. In fact, I feel I get a lot of the same things from them instead of thinking as one making up for a deficit for the other. I get companionship, conversation, friendship, intimacy, support, and really good kisses. I just get to get all those things from two sources. I really don't think this is about making up for a lack of sex, because it's not primarily sexual. And it's not about making up for a lack of anything else, because I don't feel we're lacking. Then throw this sentence out.

Expect you to talk directly to each partner about what you want/need from that partner. They are not interchangeable.



That is correct. The friendship will have expanded to include romance. That is a change.

Risk of a friendship ending is there all the time. She could get run over by a bus. She could choose to stop participating. So the risk now is still risk like before. No need to blow it up out of proportion.



See above. Husband can get run over by a bus. Husband can choose to stop participating in his marriage. YOU could get run over by a bus. You could stop participating in this marriage. The risk is there before, and it is there after. No need to blow it up out of proportion.

DO make your wills and list who takes care of the kids if both parents are under the bus. Or divorce. Get that life stuff in order so how the kids are affected is laid out and minimized/handled appropriately.

DO talk about how you want things to end should this relationship with the new GF break up. Are all parties in agreement for a "good ending" and how you all would handle that? Back to couples? Everyone single? Then you can relax that a plan is in place.



Is your husband not able to speak up for himself? What has he said? He said he is fine with it. After a while this will become regular ol' life for you guys. Having observed your parents in their polyship, have they basically been living regular ol' life? Sounds like it to me. Keep in mind support boards are for those needing support. Poly people living regular ol' life are off busy leading regular ol' life.

In the event of a break up, have you all got a plan? Sounds like you could talk that out... then...yeah. There's a plan in place and expectations for how that would go.
I think we should talk more about this, but the plan so far is to keep being friends. To love each other enough to make that work. And her husband has done a lot of reassuring before anything started that if he got uncomfortable with the relationship, that wouldn't mean putting an end to our friendship. We're living separately, so there wouldn't be big changes for kids or anything like that.


It's called consent. You always have room to say "No. I am not willing to participate in a poly network with more people. I do not consent." Yes!

This commenter sounds used to not exercising consent. This commenter sounds used to having things used against them in a relationship. Don't take this commenter's stuff on board for yourself.

Instead talk to your husband and clarify this area:

Does he want to date anyone else right now? No.

Should he change his mind later, how would you handle it?
  • Is it a deal breaker? Say so up front now if it is.
  • Is it something that could change over time? Clarify.

You guys have talked a lot... so keep talking.



He said he is fine. Could believe him that he's ok with it.



Nope. Not without your consent. This commenter sounds used to being exploited by their partner. They expect partner to offer something "with strings" and keep looking for the strings.

In your life? You don't control him. He could go off. But if he does not obtain consent first, he is not acting in good faith. He is cheating on current agreements. And he could not be surprised if you are not eager to welcome him back after he chooses behavior like that. You don't have to stay. You control your "staying-ness."

Again... keep talking. Talk about what is "cheating on agreements" at this point in time since the agreements are changing. Be clear. And what the consequences are for each of you should one of you cheat on agreements.



Is your husband bi? If not, why would he date guy friends? And why would dating guy friends be ok when husband has not even obtained consent first? :confused:

Look, this commenter believes a lot of wonky things about husbands.

  • That husbands cannot be trusted to speak up for themselves. Husbands cannot be trusted when they speak in general.
  • That husbands are not responsible for creating their own happiness. Wife has to make it so for them.
  • That husbands are not stable and will fly off the handle at anything. Wife has to be on guard and "keep them stable" by arranging the World to their liking for them.
  • That husbands are not responsible for their own well-being. Wife has to do it for them and anticipate their needs and caretaker them.
  • That a husband would only agree to this so he can use it against you later to override consent in order to gain access to women who would threaten you. (Ie: Husbands only give things with strings, are not respectful, and cannot be trusted not to pick out nut jobs)

I don't know what kind of marriage this person has or had, but this person has some sexist beliefs (Husbands are big babies wives have to tend). It's blowing fog on your channel. So stop listening to this stuff. If you have actual fears of your own, list them.

Yeah, actually, I wasn't too worried about this part of what she said because it sounded so foreign to me. She seemed to be working from the assumption that my husband could be lying about not wanting a partner and only consenting from a place of "heh, heh, heh, now I can go get random pussy and she can't say anything." Bizarre. I can't imagine him conniving that way at all. He's very gentle and easygoing and kind. He's never used things against me in this way or thought I owed him XYZ because he did ABC. So, I didn't recognize this person she was describing who would say yes, I support you in this, and no, I don't want to expand the relationship on my side anytime soon, but really I'm lying and using this as my ace in the hole should I ever want to cheat and/or tell you that I can go do whatever I want. Totally foreign to me.

The worry for me was that something would change for him more slowly and he wouldn't make his needs known. That he wouldn't share what he was feeling and it would slowly eat away at something with us, causing him to want to leave or possibly, leave with someone else. I hope that isn't the case though. I'm going to keep checking in and trusting that he will tell me if something is up.


YOUR FEAR

To me it sounds like you are voting "no confidence" in believing your husband's word that he is truly ok with this. To me that sounds like YOUR fear when all this "commenter fog" is blown away.



You have had all these talks together and he keeps saying YES. It sounds like you are afraid he's being dishonest again.... not really telling the truth.

Well, if you have done all the work in therapy and trust building, sooner or later you have to risk trusting him in order to complete the job of healing. You have to risk being hurt again and find out... NO doom happens. Your trust in him was well founded. He holds up his end of the stick now. And then your confidence in believing him at his Word can grow. Over time you can feel secure in his Word being consistent.

You are not going to grow that confidence if you don't risk giving it some time and space for it to happen IN.

It feels scary to risk being vulnerable sometimes, but there it is. You have to take the risk in order to come out the other side. Hanging back? You are not completing that healing job. 95% there, but not 100% past that old incident.
This all feels really salient. I think I have been hanging back and feeling vulnerable about so many things since then, without really seeing the connection.

It's nice to enjoy the NRE with your new GF, but don't neglect your other relationship with your spouse. Finish the job.
We are trading date days/nights this weekend. She's watching kids so he and I can go out tomorrow and I'm doing the same so she and her husband can go out on Sunday. Neither of us have historically made time for super frequent date nights because we have little kids and tight budgets, etc. So, I'm hoping more adults for child-watching and more attention to making sure all the relationships are getting attention could maybe even help our marriages instead of being a threat.
 
Thank you!

Hi portmanteau,

It seems to me that you are taking an adequate amount of caution for what you are planning on doing, and no, your marriage doesn't have to be perfect before you can try polyamory. Don't take too much stock in what that one person on the mainstream forum said. Just keep exercising caution, and keep the channels of communication flowing. I think you'll be fine.

Sincerely,
Kevin T.
 
Hi, portmanteau (consisting of a ​single woman capable of a ​wide ​range of wonderful possibilities)!

Let me throw a few ideas into the pool and see whether they'll float or whether you think that they're leaky. What I have to say is not necessarily what I believe (except in the first 2 points [a) and b)]), but ideas that you might be interested in considering.

a) You use the word "perfect" (negatively) 3 times in your opening post:
"But, our marriages aren't perfect and I have concerns";
"Our marriages aren't perfect. They aren't awful either.";
"my parents moved in a woman and her two daughters when I was 8. They are still together. It hasn't been perfect in many ways but nobody's life was torn asunder, I don't think."


[You don't think??? I think that if somebody's life had been torn asunder, you'd have at least your suspicions. ;)]

You're new to this forum, so you might not know this: You can create an opinion-poll thread and get people to tick one or more boxes. How about asking the question:

How many of you consider your marriage / main relationship / secondary relationship(s) absolutely perfect?

You might well be astounded by how few people tick "Yes: 100% perfect". (Then again, you might not be astounded at all.)

b) Polyamory is NOT going to solve all your problems, straighten your children's teeth, or make your marriages perfect.

c) There's a possibility that one or both husbands feel guilty about past cheating and is/are agreeing to your relationship with your best friend as a way of "atoning for their sins". I would hope that this isn't based on guilt feelings, but on the wish to "play fair".

d) There's a possibility that your being open about your relationship will make both husbands realise that there's no need to cheat: that if ever they feel attracted by the prospect of another relationship themselves, they will be able to talk with both of you about that openly, instead of sneaking about behind your backs.

e) There's a possibility that one or both husbands "get off" on the idea of your having a lesbian relationship. It's a common sexual fantasy of many men.

f) There's a possibility that one or both husbands hope that there's a chance that he/they will be invited to join a threesome/foursome. Let them fantasise.
Whether it ever happens or not (sometime in the future) isn't something that needs to be dealt with now.

g) There's a possibility that one or both husbands will be fine about your lesbian relationship, but would freak out if you felt attracted to another man. Again, this isn't something that needs to be dealt with now. One step at a time.

h) There's a possibility that your husband - as tenK pointed out - might feel relieved that he is no longer "responsible" for satisfying all your sexual needs. Independently of that, it's possible that your being sexually satisfied increases his interest in sex with you. Don't worry about it.

i) Don't worry about your children being damaged. Do your children know about your parents' love triangle? Do they handle it well? If they don't know yet, you might want to introduce them to the truth, on the lines: "Look at them. Your world didn't crumble because they've been doing this for 17 years. Why should it crumble because your parents start? Have faith in us. We love you and always will."

j) This one's another that belongs with a) and b), because I own up to believing this. Several people have advised you to take it slow or proceed with caution. I honestly don't think you need to. You've been plenty cautious already. My advice is: "Don't close your eyes when you jump, but go ahead and jump into that water. Get wet. Enjoy it." I found your description of your first kisses and face-stroking truly sweet. I trust this woman to treat you well. I get a very strong feeling that she's NOT "just after one thing". She loves you, believe me.

Don't be afraid. Trust your husband. Trust your new love. They might let you down, sure, but don't let fear of what may very well never happen keep you from seeking joy.

Trust yourself. :)
 
Thanks so much! I appreciate all the replies here!

Hi, portmanteau (consisting of a ​single woman capable of a ​wide ​range of wonderful possibilities)!

Let me throw a few ideas into the pool and see whether they'll float or whether you think that they're leaky. What I have to say is not necessarily what I believe (except in the first 2 points [a) and b)]), but ideas that you might be interested in considering.

a) You use the word "perfect" (negatively) 3 times in your opening post:
"But, our marriages aren't perfect and I have concerns";
"Our marriages aren't perfect. They aren't awful either.";
"my parents moved in a woman and her two daughters when I was 8. They are still together. It hasn't been perfect in many ways but nobody's life was torn asunder, I don't think."



[You don't think??? I think that if somebody's life had been torn asunder, you'd have at least your suspicions. ;)]

I think all the "perfect" stuff was just my poor word choice. I was reading articles/blogs/opinions on polyamory and trying to tick off all the boxes saying we were doing things "the right way," in other words, the most considerate, smart, and ethical way. I don't expect things to be perfect in our relationships and I definitely don't expect polyamory to fix things in either relationship but there's a "get your marriage in order first" "rule" that I read and was responding to. I was wondering if these prior issues in our respective marriages meant it wasn't a good idea for us.

About my parents. Well, I think there are mixed feelings all around amongst three adults and four children. The woman who came into our lives was an alcoholic for a long time. That complicated things. Also, we had complicated and sometimes intensely negative relationships between "siblings" for much of our childhood. I also think my "sisters" missed the normal life they would have had with their mom and dad together (they were already long split when my mom and dad met her though, due to abuse). My mom is the... what's the word... hinge? Although they all have relationships. Once, as a teenager, my dad told me something like, "I know she (my mom) loves her more." So, all of those things made it messy and hard to quantify if it was overall good for everyone or not. But, I think the same could be said if she had been a step-parent and they had been my step-sisters. I think we're avoiding a lot of that in our relationship because we're maintaining separate households. We fantasize about a duplex though or being neighbors with a shared yard someday.


You're new to this forum, so you might not know this: You can create an opinion-poll thread and get people to tick one or more boxes. How about asking the question:

How many of you consider your marriage / main relationship / secondary relationship(s) absolutely perfect?

You might well be astounded by how few people tick "Yes: 100% perfect". (Then again, you might not be astounded at all.)

b) Polyamory is NOT going to solve all your problems, straighten your children's teeth, or make your marriages perfect.

c) There's a possibility that one or both husbands feel guilty about past cheating and is/are agreeing to your relationship with your best friend as a way of "atoning for their sins". I would hope that this isn't based on guilt feelings, but on the wish to "play fair".
I think it's possible that this is the case, or partially the case, for her husband. Not really the case with mine, who seems truly at ease and non-jealous and it's been a long time of working through our issues since what happened with him, so he's not feeling guilty.

d) There's a possibility that your being open about your relationship will make both husbands realise that there's no need to cheat: that if ever they feel attracted by the prospect of another relationship themselves, they will be able to talk with both of you about that openly, instead of sneaking about behind your backs.
I hope that's the case.

e) There's a possibility that one or both husbands "get off" on the idea of your having a lesbian relationship. It's a common sexual fantasy of many men.
Nope. It's what you'd expect, right? But, oddly enough, that's not happening here. She identified as lesbian before marrying him and the ongoing joke in their marriage has been that she married the one guy that isn't into lesbian action. Mine is just plain disinterested. He's busy and focused on work and school and it isn't leaving much energy for anything else. They are both supportive, but not asking for or interested in details.

f) There's a possibility that one or both husbands hope that there's a chance that he/they will be invited to join a threesome/foursome. Let them fantasise.
Whether it ever happens or not (sometime in the future) isn't something that needs to be dealt with now.
Nope. See above.

g) There's a possibility that one or both husbands will be fine about your lesbian relationship, but would freak out if you felt attracted to another man. Again, this isn't something that needs to be dealt with now. One step at a time.
Not really worried. We aren't interested in any other relationships right now. Or possibly ever. Also, she claims to not be attracted to men at all, aside from her husband. So, that's definitely not a worry for her.

h) There's a possibility that your husband - as tenK pointed out - might feel relieved that he is no longer "responsible" for satisfying all your sexual needs. Independently of that, it's possible that your being sexually satisfied increases his interest in sex with you. Don't worry about it.
Maybe so. Sex hasn't really played a big role yet since it's all so new.

i) Don't worry about your children being damaged. Do your children know about your parents' love triangle? Do they handle it well? If they don't know yet, you might want to introduce them to the truth, on the lines: "Look at them. Your world didn't crumble because they've been doing this for 17 years. Why should it crumble because your parents start? Have faith in us. We love you and always will."
My oldest is 7 and my youngest is 2. She has three under age 4. It's a pretty grown up conversation. Mine know that they have "Granny, Grandpa, and Grandma" and it doesn't really have any more weight than that. They have laid around or slept in the same bed with Granny and Grandma. So, they know that they go together. That's about the extent of it. My oldest knows that my best friend and I go together a little too. We don't live together but we're always having sleepovers (all the kids sleeping over) or sometimes going out just the two of us. The kids also can't get enough of each other and never want playdates or sleepovers to end. So, I'm not sure we need to explicitly define anything to them yet. They're all pretty young.

j) This one's another that belongs with a) and b), because I own up to believing this. Several people have advised you to take it slow or proceed with caution. I honestly don't think you need to. You've been plenty cautious already. My advice is: "Don't close your eyes when you jump, but go ahead and jump into that water. Get wet. Enjoy it." I found your description of your first kisses and face-stroking truly sweet. I trust this woman to treat you well. I get a very strong feeling that she's NOT "just after one thing". She loves you, believe me.
We read this together and she said, "I like j. They're right." It's all been very sweet and intimate and extremely deep, because we had so many layers of friendship already.

Don't be afraid. Trust your husband. Trust your new love. They might let you down, sure, but don't let fear of what may very well never happen keep you from seeking joy.

Trust yourself. :)

Thank you! I really do appreciate the advice!
 
P.S. I really like these quotes from your signature as well!

And the day came when the risk to remain tight in a bud was more painful than the risk it took to blossom.
~ Anais Nin

I'd rather have a broken heart / Than have a heart of stone.
- from "Boundless Love (A Polyamory Song)" by Jimmy Hollis i Dickson


 
@ portmanteau,
I tried (several times) clicking on "Reply", which should put the whole of your comment in quotes. But I keep getting a reply box with the following message:
Please click one of the Quick Reply icons in the posts above to activate Quick Reply.
So I have to copy-and-paste, then wrap a "quote" around it:
P.S. I really like these quotes from your signature as well!

And the day came when the risk to remain tight in a bud was more painful than the risk it took to blossom.
~ Anais Nin

I'd rather have a broken heart / Than have a heart of stone.
- from "Boundless Love (A Polyamory Song)" by Jimmy Hollis i Dickson
If you like that 2nd quote (the 4th of my signature), you might like to read the whole poem. Click on the title in my signature and scroll down to nearly the bottom of the page that appears.
 
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