the "cuckold" thing

Ravenscroft

Banned
An insight was posted today (I've edited for presentation here) --
Ok, this cuckold thing has been bugging me.

Poly guys whose wives and girlfriends date other men are not cuckolds. The thought that they are comes from some societal patriarchal bullshit in which it is not considered manly to allow one's woman to fuck someone else.
I agree, pretty much totally.

Some background for my case. I'm not a swinger, though I have plenty of friends in that circle. But our household was more than a bit "polymorphously perverse," & I've had plenty of experiences in three-, four-, & fivesomes, as well as the rare random pile. Additionally, for 15 years our household left plenty of opportunities to hear & occasionally see what was going on in another room. I didn't have any problems witnessing one of my partners "getting pounded"... but neither was it something I went out of my way for.

On the other hand, yes I have truly enjoyed seeing partners get sexual attention from others. I can't say it turned me on MORE than if I were doing it, but it was enjoyable to be able to appreciate the pleasure of someone I love without needing to do all the choreography. ;)

However, I do believe it's important to emphasize that group sex is something ENTIRELY separate from polyamory. It's only dilletantes who want to cram everything together, & in the end reduce polyamory to just another kink.

It does seem to me that someone who wants to "get into poly" in order to exercise ANY fetish has already entirely missed the polyamory boat. :rolleyes:

Personally, I think "cuckoldry" is a really stupid word (& any variant or abbreviation NOT an improvement). It's no better as a concept, being an amorphous wad of situations & fantasies that have some vague similarity.

Is there something about gender expectations that the fetish(es) seem to entirely be "a guy thing"? (Of course, I don't know of even one woman who gets turned on at the thought of a guy urinating... :eek:)

I wonder how much of it has to do with physiology. Supposedly, men have a refractory period after orgasm of 15 minutes or more, where they're not able to get a boner, & therefore are apparently sexually useless. :confused: But according to women I've spoken to, that's quite optimistic: many guys apparently can't manage more than one a day (even with Viagra/Cialis). As well, many guys can't last ten minutes PIV, & polls have found an average as low as two minutes & change.

Many women, though, can happily keep going for HOURS (at least occasionally), sometimes racking off a couple dozen thoroughgoing orgasms.

So is the fetish maybe some sort of expression of fear/envy at a woman's potential sexual appetite?
 
If we're taking this from a purely straight/hetero perspective... I have a couple of things to say about this:

Personally, I think "cuckoldry" is a really stupid word (& any variant or abbreviation NOT an improvement). It's no better as a concept, being an amorphous wad of situations & fantasies that have some vague similarity.

I think there is some confusion relating to the (stupid) term cuckold, which stems from the various, tangentially-related definitions of the word.

Cuckold (traditional): A man whose wife/partner is openly cheating on him with a lover or fucking several men indiscriminately with his knowledge, but either 1.) without his consent or 2.) with his reluctant acceptance, if not his whole-hearted support.

Cuckold/cuckoldry (as a kink/fetish): A man who gets off on the idea or fact of his wife/partner sleeping with other men, either with his knowledge AND support and/or while he watches but isn't allowed to participate. In most of these instances, the wife is not "cheating" but is being asked to, or permitted to engage in "cheating type" behaviours specifically for the man/husband's sexual pleasure.

The difference in the two is in the dynamics, intent, consent or lack thereof.

The first is a product of patriarchal societal expectations of man's "ownership" and domination of women, and how a man "should" feel, behave and react to his wife "humiliating" him in this manner (taking what supposedly belongs to him and giving it to another).

While the second is a sexual proclivity that is generally reserved for a man's private fantasy material OR consensual behaviour between couples.

In this way, I'd (loosely) liken it to the difference between rape/forced sex (a hate crime against women) and women's rape fantasies or consensual BDSM scenes involving supposedly (but not actual) "non-consensual" sexual activity between the couple concerned.

Ravenscroft, you're right in saying that cuckoldry of whatever type is NOT related to polyamory in any way, although of course you'll find cuckolds within the poly world, just as they exist in the mono and single worlds.

Is there something about gender expectations that the fetish(es) seem to entirely be "a guy thing"? (Of course, I don't know of even one woman who gets turned on at the thought of a guy urinating... :eek:)

There are definitely SOME women who fetishize certain sexual behaviours (or acts, objects etc) just as SOME men do, though probably not in the same numbers, degree or extent. Judging by my internet travels, "cuckqueans" DO exist! (Who knew?) ;)

Surely this cannot be the result of Patriarchal suppression too... or can it? It probably makes more sense for women who get off on "torturing" and "humiliating" their willing cuckold husbands to have such desires in reaction/opposition to the traditional suppression of their sexuality by men. But most likely it is just one of the infinite variations of the ways human beings seek sexual pleasure/thrills and variety.
 
I looked at this word also - and wrote some about it just about a year ago as part of a larger context of sexual energy dynamics - a post which I recently referenced to one of our newcomers due to his particular situation.

I think there is some confusion relating to the (stupid) term cuckold, which stems from the various, tangentially-related definitions of the word.

Cuckold (traditional): A man whose wife/partner is openly cheating on him with a lover or fucking several men indiscriminately with his knowledge, but either 1.) without his consent or 2.) with his reluctant acceptance, if not his whole-hearted support.

Cuckold/cuckoldry (as a kink/fetish): A man who gets off on the idea or fact of his wife/partner sleeping with other men, either with his knowledge AND support and/or while he watches but isn't allowed to participate. In most of these instances, the wife is not "cheating" but is being asked to, or permitted to engage in "cheating type" behaviours specifically for the man/husband's sexual pleasure.

And there is still an even more archaic and less relevant definition still to be found in dictionaries:
cuck·old (noun - archaic)
1.the husband of an adulteress, often regarded as an object of derision.


So in this archaic, and completely meaningless sense (in today's world), any man whose wife has had sex with another man is a "cuckold". And 200 years ago, a man may have been branded with that term even if his wife was just having a "single, simple discrete affair".

But, in terms of today's culture, I agree - it is a "stupid" word and has no relevance outside of that particular femdom kink - "and your kink is ok but it is not my kink" - no judgment - other than to say that archaic definition that goes back to the middle ages has no current validity. Al
 
found in dictionaries:
cuck·old (noun - archaic)
1.the husband of an adulteress, often regarded as an object of derision.

Alternately, it seems like a very appropriate word for those who have been cheated on and seems to include and describe the insecurity that comes with it the infidelity.

I do not think it is a poor term, perhaps it is just applied incorrectly too often.
 
cuck·old (noun - archaic)
1.the husband of an adulteress, often regarded as an object of derision.
Alternately, it seems like a very appropriate word for those who have been cheated on and seems to include and describe the insecurity that comes with it the infidelity.

I do not think it is a poor term, perhaps it is just applied incorrectly too often.

A couple of counterpoints to the use of the word as archaically defined.

The number of men who have been "cheated on" at some point in their married (or committed, exclusive relationship) life is probably well over half of that population - thus making the term virtually meaningless.

Regarding the husband as an object of derision because his wife cheated on him is not a statement that fits within today's cultural norms because cheating is so common by both men and women.

Recent studies pretty much agree that married women cheat as much as men. I have read commentaries by therapists who suggest that women actually cheat more - and that the number of women who have cheated at least once (maybe the time they got a little too drunk at that Christmas party) is well over half.

My thought would be that word now only has meaning within the context of the cuckold-hotwife fetish - in which a form of sexualized humiliation plays into a submission fantasy scenario that harkens back to the original meaning of the word. Al
 
The number of men who have been "cheated on" at some point in their married (or committed, exclusive relationship) life is probably well over half of that population - thus making the term virtually meaningless.

Well I don't think the volume really matters for the definition; not sure how that applies.

Regarding the husband as an object of derision because his wife cheated on him is not a statement that fits within today's cultural norms because cheating is so common by both men and women.

Well it certainly matches how I feel right now, that's what I meant to say... I do think there is still a stigma against men who have been cheated on; not to say that it is correct.

I don't think it applies to Poly, I do think it applies to me and what I went through; and describes some of the insecurities that were brought up by the indiscretion.
 
Well I don't think the volume really matters for the definition; not sure how that applies.

First of all, keep in mind that it is an an archaic definition so that affects usage. Gay originally meant light hearted and carefree but using that term to describe someone now would generally mean that you are describing the person as homosexual in orientation. So you would most likely not describe someone as gay because they are carefree in modern times because the common connotation is different. In current usage, the use of the term cuckold almost always points to the femdom fetish, not to a commonplace "betrayed husband".

Secondly, volume does matter in terms of the significance of term as a specific describer. For example, we might say that some random adult is sexually active. The condition is so common that the response would be "so what - and?" - it is so common that is has no special significance.
I do think there is still a stigma against men who have been cheated on

Not in my circles anyway - the response would be more like - so? hasn't everyone? :) Again, it is so common in modern secular society.
 
In the kink world cuckoldry is specifically a Dom/sub thing. Not all men who get a charge from their wife sleeping around are cuckolds. My second wife was a stripper. I got a charge out of men wanting her. It was about pride, not humiliation.

My first wife cheated on me. I was not humiliated. I was pissed. So I dumped her. Again, not a cuckold.

Currently, the word has creeped into right wing jargon as a pejorative, similar to the immature act of calling someone "gay".

As a poly guy I have run into men who have not used the word, but implied that any man who "lets" his women screw others is less than a man. One guy, who regularly cheated on his wife and later his girlfriend, said he could never let that happen.

I could come up with more stories, but in the end it boils down to the following: there is no stigma attached to men who have multiple female partners, but there is a stigma attached to men whose female partners have sex with other men.

Oh..and yeah there are female versions of cuckolds out there...and I've known several women who liked being peed on. Kink is not a gender thing.
 
It seems that Wiktionary has dropped the ball on this one ...
"Cuckold = a man married to an unfaithful wife, especially when he is unaware or unaccepting of the fact."
and
"Cuckquean = a woman who has an unfaithful husband."

Wikipedia adds the fetish version, while retaining the traditional.
 
Vinsanity wrote:
I got a charge out of men wanting her. It was about pride, not humiliation.

Interesting point - as I wrote about early on in this poly adventure, I was somewhat surprised that I came to view Becky's encounters with Ben as hot and sexy. I gave it some real honest introspection and realized - no, it was not about the sexualized humiliation of the cuckold-hotwife fantasy. It was more about how it made Becky seem all the hotter and sexier when she was so desired by another man. So, yep, pride might be a good way of putting it.

Currently, the word has creeped into right wing jargon as a pejorative, similar to the immature act of calling someone "gay".

As a poly guy I have run into men who have not used the word, but implied that any man who "lets" his women screw others is less than a man. One guy, who regularly cheated on his wife and later his girlfriend, said he could never let that happen.

I could come up with more stories, but in the end it boils down to the following: there is no stigma attached to men who have multiple female partners, but there is a stigma attached to men whose female partners have sex with other men.

Yes - there is definitely a very negative stigma attached to the word and has always been - unless the hotwife-cuckold fetish happens to be one's thing - in which case they should own it.

Having grown up in the fundamentalist, evangelical redneck rural South, the idea of "allowing" another man to have sex with your wife was unthinkable. And this inbred culture was a big part of what I had to transcend to make the transition to poly, even though intellectually and theologically I had long since let these ideas go. And it was a difficult challenge to make that transition - ultimately accomplished but not without some real effort.

Good discussion. Al
 
all the hotter and sexier when she was so desired by another man. So, yep, pride might be a good way of putting it.

I've had this feeling for years with my Partner, she's very flirtatious and enjoys the attention, we always had fun when she would dance with other guys and if they got grabby push them away and come make out with me.. lol



the idea of "allowing" another man to have sex with your wife was unthinkable.

I grew up in the west coast with hippies (well, my single mom) and I feel the same way, I don't think it's a regional thing.
 
The meaning of a term varies by context or rather, the nuances will vary depending on the group that is using it.

In heavily patriarchal groups, "cuckold" still very much means a man whose wife has cuckolded (cheated on him) and there's shame applied to the man; the implication for those groups is that the man lacks the power to keep his woman in line. The woman still bears the brunt of the group's shaming, though.

Even in "mainstream"? society, the stigmas/taboos remain, since there is still a lot of patriarchal mindset out there. The terms may have been replaced, but the idea remains.

Naturally, when something is taboo, kinks emerge -- either as acts of transgression against the taboo, or for the giving/receiving of shame/humiliation. All of this leads to several variations on the theme.

When it comes to kink, I have seen a lot of different words used, with various shadings. Cuckold/cuckolding, the consistent component seems to be "a man's wife having sex with a man who is not her husband." After that, the fantasy nuances seem to include:

a) in secret (e.g. cheating).
b) in secret but "getting caught"
c) Encouraged by the husband because he takes pride in how desirable she is. Since cuckold has a stigma attached to it, other terms are sometimes used for this: "hotwife", "Stag and Vixen", etc.
d) Being overcome with desire/wantoness...
e) Encouraged by the husband because it is transgressive for his wife to have sex with another man. This might be just about "the taboo, or might go as far as playing with idea that is shameful for her.
f) Male dominance of the wife, as a power exchange, etc.
f) Female dominance of the husband, either as a power exchange, playing with the husband's shame or humiliation...
g) Many more...

My impression is that any of those can be fantasies for a wife, a husband, or an extramarital partner. And sometimes, there's a flipside, where a wife encourages their husband to have a female extra-marital partner. "Cuckqueen" or "Cuckquean" with some of the same variations as above.

While none of it fits with my idea of polyamory nor my idea of swinging, both of those cultures (philosophies?) would allow people to explore the kinks honestly, since both allow for non-exclusive/extramarital sexual activity. Making it more likely that the fantasy will be more likely to be fulfilled and discussed in those cultures.

Anyway, its good to explore the terms, they give one a starting point for discussion, but I'd be wary, invariably they're going to mean different things to different people, depending where their life journey started and where it has taken them. When discussing the term with someone, don't forget to ask what it means to them. :)
 
Awsome Discussion

cuckold has such a negative sound, lol.

I have been cuckolded in a previous marriage, two marriages actually.

I love cuckold with my current wife

One if these is very negative, and one is positive. Even the minimal context provided allows me to communicate effectively.

On the subject of sharing your wife.

My personal journey with my current wife had had the Hotwife phase where I loved watching her with another man, I loved to see her being pleased. But I am very Alpha so it was as much about "giving" her pleasure through another.

Evolving into Poly for her has been all about wanting her to have the best possible experience she can while in this world. I am the true example of compersion.
 
It's interesting that what some of you consider cuckoldry I don't consider cuckoldry at all.

I agree.

In the old-fashioned usage, "cuckold" referred to a man whose wife was cheating, probably without his consent/knowledge, but often with the knowledge of others in the community (hence, being "humiliated" by her behaviour).

In the more common parlance, a "cuckold" (fetish) refers to a man who gets off on the implied negative aspect of his wife's "cheating" behaviour (which is in actuality becomes a "positive" for him, as the situation is set-up and not "real" in most cases.) In many cases, feeling jealousy and humiliation in a sexual situation is the ONLY way such a man can get aroused.

Whereas simply enjoying the fact that other males desire your wife/gf (pride) or enjoying watching her have sex with others on occasion (a compersive group sex situation or kink) does NOT mean the man/husband concerned is a cuckold. Men who happen to enjoy others desiring their partner on occasion do not usually have a cuckold fetish, as they are able to enjoy sex with their partner alone or in other sexual situations.
 
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