Gay, Bi-, Queer Polyamory

OK OK!

Here I am, a queer/pansexual/panamorous woman formerly in a very long term monogamous relationship with a straight guy. I enjoyed het privilege galore for all those years.

Now, I am in a 2+year relationship with a MTF (male to female) transgendered woman, and we are polyamorous.

I can't find a guy who will enter into a more serious committed relationship with me, despite looking for that for 2 years. Not a straight guy, not a bi or pansexual guy, not a single guy, not a stable partnered poly guy. Of course, my lack of success is partly because my dating pool is narrower because of my gender (queer) my sexual preference (all genders), and my lovestyle (poly).

But part of it comes down the the trouble with guys (gay, bi or straight). Guys are just tough. In general (present company excluded) they don't feel comfortable expressing feelings, whether this is cultural, or somehow built in biologically. I've read it's partly brain chemistry. Because of men's long history as hunters and warriors, they've learned to be able to turn off feelings so they can carry on during a hunt or battle despite an injury, deprivation, or witnessing the horror of seeing comrades wounded or killed.

That said, most men are more comfortable expressing feelings, if they ever do, to a woman friend or mate. Sharing feelings with another dude? Nah, that makes them feel all ooshy and womanly. It's a sign of weakness! Let's just drink another beer, deal another hand of poker, and talk about sports, please!
 
Ah, the Kinsey 4 with NO experience whatsoever in the field of women, finding herself in what seems to be escalating into a situation where I am secondary to TWO straight guys! That is me alright.

My problem is exactly the opposite from yours, Magdlyn. Girls just don't fancy me. My animal magnetism isn't coming through to them. I go on dates, and I like them, but NOTHING ever comes out of it!

I've been told I should be more aggressive in showing my interest and pursuing women, because after all the heterosexist conditioning, women are loathe to take the initiative even with other women. Frankly, I don't know how aggressively you CAN express your interest before crossing over to sexual harassment!

My problem is not some sort of deficient socialization, for I have lots of female friends, including very close ones, and talk to girls on-line all the time. So obviously I'm likable but maybe not beddable to other women?
 
.... Sharing feelings with another dude? Nah, that makes them feel all ooshy and womanly. It's a sign of weakness! Let's just drink another beer, deal another hand of poker, and talk about sports, please!

Ooooh, I LOVE feeling all ooshy with men! >Posting lawn sign to this effect<:D

....

I, too, am feeling challenged in finding men who are willing to be a little more ooshy.
 
My problem is exactly the opposite from yours, Magdlyn. Girls just don't fancy me. My animal magnetism isn't coming through to them. I go on dates, and I like them, but NOTHING ever comes out of it!

I've been told I should be more aggressive in showing my interest and pursuing women, because after all the heterosexist conditioning, women are loathe to take the initiative even with other women. Frankly, I don't know how aggressively you CAN express your interest before crossing over to sexual harassment!

My problem is not some sort of deficient socialization, for I have lots of female friends, including very close ones, and talk to girls on-line all the time. So obviously I'm likable but maybe not beddable to other women?

Oh no, I have that problem as well, BU. Women so rarely message me on okc, and when they do, it usually quickly fizzles. Or they bore me, older women just wanting to prattle about their knitting or grandkids for hours... or they live 70 miles away. Or, sometimes, I am 95% sure they are actually a guy just looking to get off.

I think I'd do better in lesbian bars possibly. But I don't really do the club scene. Too expensive.
 
Buy one drink and sip it very, very slowly. :p

Actually I've been chatting on on and off with this tv/transwoman person on okc for a while in a friendly way, and she's always wanted me to accompany her to this gay/les club up in NH. Now that my weekends are more free b/c of my gf seeing her bf overnight, Ive got more free time, and told her id take her up on the offer. the cover's only $5 and she said she'd pay. hehe She said everyone is very friendly there and lots of lesbians ask her to dance... so it would be fun to try my luck! I just need for her to find herself a free Sat night.
 
Magdlyn,

Remember, sip, don't gulp! And good luck.

====

Everyone, ... er.., guys:

Check out www.GayOutdoors.org . A good way to meet folks, I think.
 
I'm guessing you're referring to the theme of "sex sells" when it comes to gay-oriented businesses, like magazines, etc?

I dunno. I mean, there's always the stereotype that gay men sleep around more than straight men. But I've always believed it was not a gay vs straight thing. It was more because men in general are usually more horny than women...and that unfortunately for straight guys, they only get sex when the women in their lives will give it to them. Whereas a gay man, anytime he's in the mood can find another one who is too.

So to get back to your marketing thing, I think it's just reflective of all that. A travel agency advertising a gay cruise will have the ads covered with hot guys in bathing suites, but the ads for a cruise for straight couples will probably have pictures of romantic sunsets and other scenes to appeal to the women.
 
It was more because men in general are usually more horny than women...and that unfortunately for straight guys, they only get sex when the women in their lives will give it to them. Whereas a gay man, anytime he's in the mood can find another one who is too.

So to get back to your marketing thing, I think it's just reflective of all that. A travel agency advertising a gay cruise will have the ads covered with hot guys in bathing suites, but the ads for a cruise for straight couples will probably have pictures of romantic sunsets and other scenes to appeal to the women.

Hehee, since we are getting on to the world of stereotypes I'm happy to inform you that bi-women beat the shit out of men both gay and straight when it comes to having horns, so where are our sexy adds? :D

Seriously speaking, lesbian media marketing too is very sexualized, which doesn't sit well with some of the anti-commercial, anti-objectified-sex people involved in the community. I think it comes down to thinking that gay is a SEXUAL orientation - i.e. it's not about desiring relationships and sharing your life with people who share your gender identification, but it's about desiring a certain set of genitalia.

As to the are women less horny than men in general, I think the question is pretty impossible to solve in our current gender/orientation system. For women, heterosexual activity carries SO much cultural baggage as in being perceived as a bad girl, a slut, putting it out for the man, fear of pregnancy etc. that it would be strange if none of it carried to same-sex relationships, too, particularly since many more gay women than gay men have at some point in there lives been involved with the opposite sex, too. I know women who say that being gay is so liberating because there are no sluts in the dyke scene, just girls who get around. And then there are women who say it's so liberating not to have their female partner constantly initiate sex, unlike their previous male partners.

A woman friend of mine is so excited about her new sexual relationship with a man, not so much for the general sexual satisfaction but because she feels she is a properly functioning, desirable woman who is able to have heterosexual intercourse after all. Just sayin' it's not that simple 'women want it less' -issue.
 
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I think I'd do better in lesbian bars possibly. But I don't really do the club scene. Too expensive.

That, and what doesn't attract me to the scene at all is that many people my age involved tend to use alcohol rather heavily.
 
Women have a much much MUCH! higher orgasmic potential than men. We are just as horny as men, if not more. We've just been programmed to be "pure" because of the patriarchy. We deny our own feelings to be seen as lady-like and mate material.
 
.... I think it comes down to thinking that gay is a SEXUAL orientation - i.e. it's not about desiring relationships and sharing your life with people who share your gender identification, but it's about desiring a certain set of genitalia. ....

Right.

The very idea of "gay" (which I'm here using -- or stretching -- in a broad way, similar to "queer," as to include bi men -- such as myself) is marketed in a certain way, whether or not anything is being literally sold (which, usually, it is). That way--the way the term is tossed around--is sex-centered. Not loving-centered.

Now, I'm a BIG fan of sex. I really am. But sex is not the center of my attraction to men. It's juicy. It's exciting. It's fun. And it's a basic biological drive, etc. But, shit, so is loving! And loving isn't sex!

We men, and maybe women too, are being sold a bill of goods. We're being taught by the "marketeers" of culture that sex is MORE important than loving,
and the two need not have anything whatsoever to do with one another.

And so I think we need another term than gay, or we need to fight the marketeers and "rebrand" "gay".

I like the latter idea better. Let's take "gay" back from those who stole it from us! Let those who are into "just sex" ("NSA," etc., i.e., recreational sex with strangers and the kindred), be "homosexuals". They shouldn't mind. It's sex that they WANT at the center of their label. They don't want those "mooshy" feelings!

I want some damned mooshy feelings! That's what being "gay" should be all about. Er, rather, ... loving.
 
Ah, River, that's why I love The Birdcage/La Cage au Folles. Mooshy loving feelings abound, between the 2 main characters, and in their family as well (their son, their houseboy, the son's gf, her parents, their family of queens downstairs in the club...).
 
From what I can tell, the swinger scene is less open to gay men than polyamory is. I am not sure why except that maybe most porn is herteosexual guy fantasy material.

Hi thought I'd chime in:)
As a multi- decades lesbian turned bi thenswing then poly, I have observed this as well. I found the swing scene to be more poly minded often but yes definitely homophobic for men but not for women. Many bi men I spoke to shared their experiences of being seen as " too gay" and therefore often had to play it str8 to be involved. It seems like some aspects of swing are all about the str8 men's desires, yet they will quickly tell you it's really the women that have the control, as women are the gatekeepers to most parties. For Which the men need the women to gain access. After running thru these changes for myself I've found that the amount of bi people is about 400% larger than I'd previously been aware of. And also that the str8 people in my life have been far more open minded about my relationships than the majority of my gay friends.
 
As a multi- decades lesbian turned bi...

Ooh, women who have transitioned from lesbian to bi intrigue me! Now I know you and Redpepper, there are probably others on this forum. Female sexual fluidity is something I spend absurd amounts of time thinking about, since I've moved a fair bit between identifying as a gay woman and identifying as a bi woman. Just now I'm comfortable with flexbian - primarily interested in women but willing to make exceptions for a few specific men. I find my 'man-phases' come and go, and more often than not probably become self-feeding cycles - opening yourself to one man leads to noticing others in a special way too, and then you allow other men a little more leeway, and sooner than you know it, you are on a man-binge!

I have been informed that nobody who likes cock as much as I do can be a lesbian. But to me, orientation is about emotional attraction first and foremost. If it were easier to meet women I'd probably stop actively dating men all together and just stick with my current sweetheart and any lovely ladies I could put under my spell. Maybe I'm one of those lesbians who end up married with a man after all.

I wonder how much of this emotional preference of mine has to do with having been brought up in a two-female-household. I've never lived with an adult male, related or unrelated, and was thus severely shocked by the discovery that although everyone calls them 'balls' or 'testicles', they are in fact located in the SAME bag! Like what is that about?! ATM I have a live-in mum and a live-in straight gf, and have one male friend who is as gay as a Swiss cuckoo clock. Like, how homo-social can one get, really?

Growing up I thought everyone was bisexual and was quite surprised to discover at the tender age of eleven that it was not so. I experienced my bisexual and feminist revelation pretty simultaneously, so I guess it's one of the reasons I feel so drawn to this quote by Alice Walker;
"A womanist is a woman who loves other women sexually and/or non-sexually. Appreciates and prefers women's culture, women's emotional flexibility (values tears as a natural counterbalance of laughter), and women's strength. Sometimes loves individual men, sexually and/or non-sexually."

So yeah, if the term had wider currency I'd love to be a womanist.

Midnight ramblings. Love 'em.
 
Waving at the sexually fluid on the board!

Count me among the sexually fluid, lesbian-to-bi-to-???? types on the board. I think there are quite a few of us running about. I don't think enjoying cock makes one not a lesbian/queer/bi - I think it just means you like dick. Me too! Men who enjoy a finger in the ass are not automatically turned gay/queer by the experience - the reverse is true too.

Recently, I had the somewhat startling realization that the more I fuck men, the more I realize I have little in common with many mainstream, straight women.
 
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