No dates for me: how to avoid playing the victim?

Yeah... "gal" says to me, "This guy doesn't have any respect for women, he just thinks they're toys or wants to pat them on the head and smile condescendingly." That's just my opinion, but I know I'm not the only one who thinks that way.

The rest of this is also just my opinion, and I realize I'm weird, but still, it's something to maybe consider.

When I read a profile, I don't actually care whether the guy's good in the sack, or has a ton of interests, or is good-looking. Seeing those kinds of things in a profile makes me think the guy is shallow and only seeking sex, and wouldn't be able to carry a conversation in a bucket. Same if a guy messages me.

I don't look for a specific physical appearance or someone who's interested in a specific thing. And I don't look for sex, though if I get involved with someone I probably hope sex will be part of it at some point. I look for someone I can click with on an intellectual basis. Someone I can make an offbeat, obscure reference to and he'll either understand it or ask me more about it, rather than getting annoyed because he has no clue what I'm talking about. Someone I would be friends with regardless of what else goes on between us.

When I first "met" Hubby on AFF, I didn't want anything to do with him. His profile was entirely focused on his physical appearance and stamina (he's a boat captain; he was a swing dance instructor and competitor), and in the chat room he was almost always on cam and talked primarily to the women who were on cam, complimenting their physical appearance. I dismissed him almost immediately as yet another shallow man who thought with his lower head. When I met him in person at one of our chat group's events, he was completely different; he was intelligent, funny, and cared more about the emotional and intellectual connections than physical appearance and actions. But if he hadn't been at that event, I would never have known that, and I would never have met him or responded to any of his messages on the site.

When I first "met" S2, on the same site, it was through what he now says was a generic "email blast" message that he sent to women he was interested in... but it said something about "I commute with the rest of the lemmings." The lemmings reference was unique enough to get me to respond and to read his profile... and his profile was well-written, thoughtful, and intelligent. He mentioned the physical appearance he hoped to find in a partner--AFF is, after all, supposed to be primarily a sex-hookup site--but his profile was written in a way that showed how he thinks, his sense of humor, the fact that he *wasn't* only after getting laid...and a way that showed he and I think so much alike it's scary. When we finally met in person on a date, after a few weeks of communicating solely through AFF messaging, it was like getting together with an old friend you've known for decades.

Before you redo your OKC profile, think about who you ARE, not what you want. And then write something that will show other people who you are. If you go off with the only goal being finding a date-mate, you won't, because you'll get lost in the sea of men who are just looking for dates and sex. Write something that will give women a reason to CONNECT with you.
 
The use of the word "gal" in the profile throws me off more than the mention of being great in bed.

Agreed. I hate being called a "gal" or a "girl" at my age.

I'm an open-hearted feminist who is funny, empathetic, and generous. I'm creative, literate, and good in the sack. I'm also fit and good-looking. And one of the gals here described me as "super awesome." :)

I'm happily married, and my wife and I date others outside our partnership. So while I can't be your one and only, I can be your beau of the moment if you're longing to just relax and have fun with a decent guy. Let's go dancing, play mini golf, go for a hike, get a coffee or beer (IPA, please) ... let's have fun!

I don't think you need the first paragraph. Your writing tells me you're literate, you're pics will tell me if you're fit and goodlooking. I'm interested in hearing the things you like to do (minigolf, hiking, etc.) I'd want to hear about what you do in your spare time and your tastes in music, books, film, food, etc..

What turns me off: "Let's have fun!" I, personally, tend to shy away from people whose profiles say they're "looking for fun" or have the word "fun" in their username. It tells me you're not going to take me seriously. It's up there with "no drama," meaning, to me, this isn't going to be a real relationship with any emotional connection. If that's what you mean, fine, but be warned it wouldn't attract someone looking for an actual boyfriend.
 
this may be just me, but for me it is a turn off when a man says 'you' in his profile a lot (the worst example of this is when he lists 'you' as one of the six most important things in life).

To me it just sounds so superficial.. he is addressing a 'you' that doesn't exist, because dozens of women could be reading that profile, so who's the 'you'?

Your first paragraph, reads like you are trying way too hard. I fully agree with KC43 who said to write about who you ARE. But instead of writing that you're funny and a feminist and whatever, write about what excites you, what makes you smile, what makes you happy, what interests you. Also, write about what you are not so good at. Women love vulnerability (in moderation - no whining please). What I mean is write about yourself with a sense of humor. Don't be afraid to be quirky and unique, instead of trying to be a generic person most women will like.
 
Your first paragraph, reads like you are trying way too hard. I fully agree with KC43 who said to write about who you ARE.

I think the (sadly all too common) problem here is that he doesn't know.

I'm not happy, either - it feels like someone has said, "Hey, there's this great new thing you can have - a terrific marriage AND dates with other women," but when I reach for it, there's nothing there.

Would you be happy if it were only your wife who was seeing other people? It seems there are some relationships where one partner is poly and the other is monogamous. If you don't think you would be happy in this situation, perhaps you want to reconsider opening your marriage.

It might be that there aren't many people who will be interested in dating you, and this might not be something you can fix. Similar to how if you are five foot tall it is unreasonable to set your ambition on being a professional basketball player. You don't seem confident; which may mean that on some level you are unhappy with yourself and where you are in your life. In your 50s this is still possible to fix but will not be overnight and will probably take years to see any sort of significant improvement.

Good luck.
 
Back from running errands, etc. ... I really appreciate the thoughtful answers.

I never considered "gal" to be demeaning -- but if that's how it comes across to the women here, I should probably pick something else, so thanks for the feedback.

Likewise on the "write about who you ARE" suggestion - I see where what I've currently included comes across as an uninteresting, "hey, I'm super great so date me" paragraph.

I do appreciate that pointers, folks.
 
Tangent: We've discussed "girl" on here a number of times - doesn't bother me at all, but is a real trigger for a friend of mine (as is the word "cute"). I was thinking about it further - maybe it's because I have a lot of conversations with children? Girl and Boy just seem to be the simple version of Female and Male. Yes, girls grow up to be Women and boys grow up to be Men. (In the simplified world that is childhood!) but when you are talking to kids you use vocabulary they relate to in order to get across big concepts. "Yes! Girls can be Doctors - like Dr. Jones." "Yes! Boys can be Ballet Dancers - like Baryshnikov."

(The other aspect, I think, is that I have never particularly felt discriminated against because of being female. Anyone who has made a comment using "girl" TRYING to "diminish" me is an object for scorn and pity - and not to be taken seriously.)
 
I don't date outside my relationships and have no experience with online dating, but the things that got me interested in real life was when people were relaxed about themselves and had an agenda without forcing me on it. What turns me on in guys, apart from looks, is the ability to act. You can really feel it if people are comfortable by themselves without being selfcentered. People who are curious about others - and able to connect. I like the wine, the music, the talk - and then some confidant cock at the end of the evening.

I don't see anything wrong with using gal - or girl as long as it is not accompanied by the word "My" or "little". Galpal is a word too,isn't it?
 
I think this thread is all most guys need to read to understand why women are so much damn pickier than guys for online dating. It's bizarre to me to see so many nitpicky arguments about all these subtle variances in word usage and triggers. Jeez o Pete's. Most guys just put it out there in their description without hidden meanings or agendas. It seems alot of you women are trying to find hidden meaning where there is none.
 
Just because you yourself are unaware of the signals and messages that are being communicated does not mean they aren't there. Really, how certain words and terminology are interpreted is an important thing to consider.

The things that have been pointed out here really aren't hidden. Unfortunately, most guys on OKC have a very clear agenda - they want to get laid without having to invest much in a relationship, and that is glaringly obvious in how they present themselves.

The well-written, considerate profiles, with decent pictures are rare. Furthermore, the possibility of receiving messages on OKC that intrigue and interest a woman enough to want to write back are even rarer. And why would I write back to someone whose message only tells me he thinks I'm attractive, wants a good time, and has a great body? Why would I be interested in someone whose profile is only three or four sentences that don't say much beyond that he wants a good time and that we have to go Dutch, with only fuzzy pictures of him in a Halloween costume? Ugh, really.

The guys that I respond to on OKC are the ones who put good thought into the messages they send. Why would I write back to anyone who does not exhibit any intelligence, humor, or evidence that they've read my profile and not just looked at the pictures? Those are few and far between. For every 1 decent message that prompts me to look at a profile that happens to be intriguing, I probably receive about 300 idiotic lame messages that say nothing and make me block them immediately.

Have you seen the dreck guys send? : Your most recent OKC messages. post em here!

Women, for the most part, are thinking, intuitive, sensitive people. These things are important.
 
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I think this thread is all most guys need to read to understand why women are so much damn pickier than guys for online dating. It's bizarre to me to see so many nitpicky arguments about all these subtle variances in word usage and triggers. Jeez o Pete's. Most guys just put it out there in their description without hidden meanings or agendas. It seems alot of you women are trying to find hidden meaning where there is none.

I've been on dozens (about 60, give or take) first dates over the past couple of years. If I had said ' yes' to every guy who asked me out on OKC I think I would have had to quit my job.

So yeah, I'm picky. And nitpicky. The 'subtle variances in word usage and triggers' are exactly what will decide if I want to keep talking to someone or not. And I would like guys to behave in the exact same way (even if I know that they most often don't) because I am not to everyones liking nor do I expect to be, so I WANT guys to be nitpicky about my profile too.
 
I think this thread is all most guys need to read to understand why women are so much damn pickier than guys for online dating. It's bizarre to me to see so many nitpicky arguments about all these subtle variances in word usage and triggers. Jeez o Pete's. Most guys just put it out there in their description without hidden meanings or agendas. It seems alot of you women are trying to find hidden meaning where there is none.
Perhaps women er picker than men. But I also think men also tend to forget that while many men are visiual - and get turned on by the profile pictures in these sites - for many women the visual is less important and they want some kind of action to happen. it is internet, you can't run or chop a log in half or impress with your swimming skills or a nice, alluring smile or the natural chemestry. Words are all you have - and if it is obvious you don't master the skill of writing you loose out. It is like saying that women who can't make themselves pretty are the victims of "pickier" guys. If your looks or words are not your selling point you might want to use something else to make yourself appealing.
 
Some women don't mind the word "gal." To me, when a man uses it, it appears condescending, and the only women I've ever heard using it are my mother-in-law and her sisters (all in their 60s) who use it to describe the groups of women they get together with for gossip and booze. So for me, it has negative connotations, and I wouldn't be likely to have any interest in a man who uses it.

Sure, it might be a semantics thing, but it's a semantics thing that is going to turn off some of the women the OP is trying to connect with. Not all of them, but some. If you're putting yourself out there online with the intention of meeting someone you're going to like and "click" with, why alienate some of the potentials right out of the gate?

And also what Norwegianpoly said... Admittedly I'm far from an expert in this and I'm dealing with a small pool of anecdotal knowledge, but from what I've seen, on sites like OKC and AFF men respond based on the pictures; women read the entire profile. My AFF profile currently says that I'm not interested in meeting anyone and am only there so I can chat with friends in my area's chat room, but I still get at least one email a day saying something along the lines of "You're cute, would you be interested in meeting?" The couple of times I've responded by pointing out that I say in so many words that I'm not interested, I get, "Well, I didn't read your profile, I just looked at your pic, why are you even here if you're not going to meet?"

(My profile pic is a blurry face-only pic that Hubby took when I wasn't paying attention, so the guys probably aren't paying too much attention to that either...)

The women I know who are on AFF have all said, during discussions in the chat room about profiles, that they do look at the pics on guys' profiles, but they won't contact the guy or respond to an email unless the profile is intelligently written and doesn't focus solely on looks and sex.
 
Re (from acutair):
"Let's go dancing, play mini golf, go for a hike, get a coffee or beer (IPA, please) ... let's have fun!"

What's IPA?
 
India Pale Ale!
 
But I'm not happy, either - it feels like someone has said, "Hey, there's this great new thing you can have - a terrific marriage AND dates with other women," but when I reach for it, there's nothing there

Is how you phrase that to yourself the source of the unhappy? Because it leads you to believe you are owed some dates? Because nobody guaranteed you dates.

It is more like someone said ""Hey, there's this great new thing you can have - a terrific marriage AND the ability to ask women out on a date. And the ability to accept if you get asked out."

Which you do have. Your marriage and the ability to ask people out/say yes.

On your OKC profile my only suggestion is to be more specific about what you can offer and what you are looking for and what you do NOT want.

I'm an open-hearted feminist who is funny, empathetic, and generous. I'm creative, literate, and good in the sack. I'm also fit and good-looking. And one of the gals here described me as "super awesome." :)

I'm happily married, and my wife and I date others outside our partnership. So while I can't be your one and only, I can be your beau of the moment if you're longing to just relax and have fun with a decent guy. Let's go dancing, play mini golf, go for a hike, get a coffee or beer (IPA, please) ... let's have fun!

Trim the first paragraph. Pictures will show me if you seem attractive to me or not.

Skip some of those phrases -- "good in the sack" and "beau of the moment" and "if you're longing to just relax and have fun with a decent guy" it sounds like you are looking for a one night stand or fling. If that's what you want -- say so up front.

And why do I need to be convinced you are decent? Usually the ones that try to convince me are the ones that bug me. I rather you describe the fun things you like so I can see if those are fun things to me. And get on to what kind of relationship you want/don't want so I can see if it matches what I want/don't want.

Be more specific. Like...

"I'm an open-hearted feminist who is funny, empathetic, generous, creative and literate. I enjoy humor that is ____. (describe the kind of funny. ) I am a good listener (describe the empathetic skill). I volunteer at/donate to charities like... (describe the generous.) I paint and do pottery. (Describe the creative. See what I mean about specific?)

I'm happily married, and my wife and I date others outside our partnership. So while I can't be your one and only, I can be your beau.

I am looking for a poly-friendly GF who enjoys activities like dancing, playing mini golf, going for a hike, getting a coffee or beer.

I am up for relationships that are ____. (friends only, casual romance , serious romance , short term, long term, long distance?)

I am not up for relationships that are ____. (friends only, casual romance , serious romance , short term, long term, long distance?)"


It does not have to be super long. People can message and chat for more. But put something specific out there so they can put something together with the picture that is meaningful and gives some clues to potential compatibility. If you work 9 to 5 and they work night shift, that makes it hard to have time to see each other. YKWIM?

I was reading another thread here, and some wise, senior member cautioned someone against falling into a victim role - she mentioned it was his choice to assume or not assume that posture.

I don't want to be a victim. Can someone maybe share some coping strategies to get through this rough patch?

What victim mentality behavior do you think you are falling into that you want to lose? You did not say.

Yes, it is a bummer if you have a dry patch poly dating. Dry patches happen. Even with mono dating.

Have you considered skipping online dating if it is not your forte? Date another way? Maybe asking a friend out on a date? Presumably a friend you would already have some things in common could be more successful. Or ask friends to help you out -- maybe they have a friend who is also looking who could be compatible.

Nobody said dating had to be this continuous effort. Dating can be work and expense. So taking some time off sometimes might help some if you are feeling run down and bleh right now. Could spend time with your friends, hobbies, rest, etc. before going for another round.

Where are you needs right now? When you check in with yourself, what are they?

Galagirl
 
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This may be a just me thing, but I see "IPA only please!" And get turned off. Either you mean you- in which case, you are saying you need your partner's permission to get a type of beer, or you'd consider not dating someone because of what type of beer they drank. And if I don't like IPA's, I'm out of there. Smacks of bad boundaries in a way "I love IPA's myself!" does not.
 
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