my assumptions, his assumptions, never voiced - now voiced and conflict

Hi kdt26417!
Ha - no he isn't bad at all 90% of the time! He's really great. If I've given the impression he is awful - he can be awful at times, but so can I. I have no illusions about this.

This last week has left us both bloody and beaten though and we are having a really hard time bridging the gap back to intimacy.

Norwegianpoly
Thanks for all the suggestions! All good ones! I'd love to talk to you more about time with husband AND boyfriend apart like that - that is an arrangement I hadn't considered before..... Hmmmm.....thoughts. I don't currently HAVE another partner, but still new thoughts. Thank you!

Part of my issue is the comparison factor though - how do you deal with that? I am fairly confident in my looks (a new hard won development) and can look pretty nice going out, but I guess I worry any beauty/mystery/interesting element is seen through a veil of kittylitter colored glasses whereas others who live away from him would be seen through a veil of mystery and beauty simply because of their greater scarcity.
 
Like nycindie said, you could have a standing night each week for dating your partner -- and you both agree to remove the kitty litter colored glasses and keep them off for the balance of the evening.
 
It's all good advice, (and thank you all greatly for it!) definitely to help offset the issue. But I guess it still hangs in the air for me - partially because of what someone else said earlier in that they could never truly and fully compartmentalize and even stop thinking/yearning for another if they had another partner though they felt they could be "present".

Personally I had issue with that statement to begin with - how can you be fully present if you can't compartmentalize enough to stop "yearning" for someone else - so I guess this falls under that scepticism too. You can SAY you're going to take off the kitty-litter colored glasses, but do they really come off? Seems like maybe somewhat but never fully - just like you would never fully stop thinking of other partners. Maybe?

Basically it sounds to me that there is a certain amount of division I should expect no matter what. Which doesn't sound unrealistic to me, just not ideal. And perhaps idealism is what has failed me all along. Not sure - TBD but will keep you guys in the loop. :)
 
Perhaps it has to do with how *much* someone thinks about the person who's not present. A few thoughts here or there seem innocent enough; maybe even a sigh is forgivable. But if they're thinking about the not-present person *all the time?* One sigh after another? Constantly texting the other person, and stuff like that? That's not cool.
 
I agree that's not cool, too. But I don't know what to expect/what would be reasonable. I'm just responding to what MightyMax said before about his "yearning" for one partner while with another partner.
 
I've grown accustomed to thinking of it as less of a "yearning" and more of an, "Oh, hey!" moment.

Such as in a monogamous relationship when you and your partner walk past a concert venue and your eye catches on one of the bands coming to play. You have a friend who's a huge fan of the band, and you think, "Oh, hey! I should tell Friend that Band is coming! I know they'd love to see them!"

You're not spending your day out wishing you were with Friend seeing Band, but it's a transient thought that comes and goes. You may text Friend a picture of the sign and have a short conversation about it. You might just note it for later.

Maybe it happens more often with a partner than with a friend, since there may be more things you know about, or are close to, that you know this person would like, or that remind you of that person... but to me it still feels like one of those transient thought patterns and less of a pining.

Pining / yearning are something different, and really would irk me if we were spending time together. If you don't want to be with me, then don't. If your desire to be with someone else is weighing heavily on you (for whatever reason - the reason could very well be a legitimate one!), then neither of us is going to have a good time together.

But that's my mono-brained rationalization of it. :)
 
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YouAreHere
I agree with your view of how it might be - it feels more reasonable (to me) and something I could come more to terms with over time I think. What MightyMax said was specifically "yearning" and that definitely irks me to think will be my fate.

Anyone "yearning" to be with someone else while they are with me is not anyone I want to spend ANY time with. It's so demeaning. It's as if I couldn't find someone who was "yearning" to be with me and have to settle for someone yearning to be with someone else who is simply blocked by circumstance (like the other person isn't available) or something.

I don't think that's a situation I really want to accept as all I should expect or deserve.

I wasn't making too big a deal about it here though because right now it's all hypothetical and though I can whip myself into a tizzy about just about anything, I'm trying to unlearn that. :)

So - this isn't happening right now and maybe is something I should be aware of but it's actually realistic to expect some bleed-through (is what I'm getting from everyone). It's not something to freak out over should someone "sigh" for example - as you say - if/when it does occur.

Which i thank you all for - this perspective you all are giving me. It is a gift I cannot thank you all enough for.
 

Norwegianpoly
Thanks for all the suggestions! All good ones! I'd love to talk to you more about time with husband AND boyfriend apart like that - that is an arrangement I hadn't considered before..... Hmmmm.....thoughts. I don't currently HAVE another partner, but still new thoughts. Thank you!

Part of my issue is the comparison factor though - how do you deal with that? I am fairly confident in my looks (a new hard won development) and can look pretty nice going out, but I guess I worry any beauty/mystery/interesting element is seen through a veil of kittylitter colored glasses whereas others who live away from him would be seen through a veil of mystery and beauty simply because of their greater scarcity.

I still sometimes love to get a bit mysterious. And I think noen matter how, they are still a bit intrigued as how I actually do it, ha ha! :D I do however also find confidence in the fact that most days they are into me pretty much noe matter how l look. I guess that naked and makeupless, I still look rather hot.
 
Leetah - your questions are very welcome and appreciated of course! We've been together on and off for about 4 years total, but friends for over 10. He has been aggressive and definitely has anger issues which stem from his father, but he is working on them in therapy. In other areas of our lives yes he is passive aggressive and disdainful at times, but who isn't? I definitely can be mean, too.

I am not passive aggressive and neither is my gf/primary partner. My ex h was passive aggressive, we are now divorced. An ex bf became disdainful after the NRE wore off, I dumped him too.

I deserve respect and unconditional love and my gf gives me that, and vice versa.

We get along incredibly well except where it comes to polyamory and his predisposition to avoid conflict by hiding things, which makes me feel he is secretive even if its for things that are non-issues and which then makes me jealous because he's being secretive (vicious circle)...

He came to realize he was poly a while into our friendship. I knew he was poly before we started dating. We did not date for a while because I didn't want to be/date poly. He eventually came to me with a huge plea of fealty and willingness/ableness to do a monogomous relationship with me which resulted in a lot of the secrecy and jealousy i mention above which resulted in a ginormous blowout of a breakup. We spent about a year not talking then became "just friends" again which lasted a few months and then we were deep into it again. Again he pled his fealty to me as a monogomous partner and guaranteed he'd make me feel so loved i would never be jealous again. Sounded great to me so again went for it, and it resulted in a stupendous infidelity on his part. NOW we are going for it as poly. Which is the only reasonable way to try it again at this point. Honestly shame on me for trying it again, but......I'm a masochist apparently.

Yes. Look at this in black and white. He has lied about his willingness to be in respectful relationship with you time and time again, and you keep coming back with a "kick me" sign on your back. You could stop accepting this kind of treatment. Sounds like he has shown by his actions his true colors.

All this stuff about thinking of other lovers, texting others, lacking a focused date day/night, and day to day chores reducing romance and mystery, etc., wouldn't be a problem if you felt wanted, in sweat pants and a messy ponytail, or in nice dress and makeup.
 
I agree that's not cool, too. But I don't know what to expect/what would be reasonable. I'm just responding to what MightyMax said before about his "yearning" for one partner while with another partner.

Such as in a monogamous relationship when you and your partner walk past a concert venue and your eye catches on one of the bands coming to play. You have a friend who's a huge fan of the band, and you think, "Oh, hey! I should tell Friend that Band is coming! I know they'd love to see them!"

You're not spending your day out wishing you were with Friend seeing Band, but it's a transient thought that comes and goes. You may text Friend a picture of the sign and have a short conversation about it. You might just note it for later.

Maybe it happens more often with a partner than with a friend, since there may be more things you know about, or are close to, that you know this person would like, or that remind you of that person... but to me it still feels like one of those transient thought patterns and less of a pining.

I think this is a more accurate way to describe it. However, when I answered this thread, I was actually thinking about a LDR that I had. As the time between visits went on, it would become a yearning and I guess I would be somewhat out of sorts until I saw my partner again. It is/was a completely separate to the feelings I have/had for other partners. Sorry, but I can't just forget about the other loves of my life. They are always in my mind somewhere, and if I haven't seen them for a long time or I see something that I know they would love or I know that there is something going on with them, it becomes acute.

I admitted that there was a balance and I have never been accused of allowing my thoughts to overwhelm the time I have with a partner. I can miss Adam and still love Eve with all of my heart and soul. That's polyamory, isn't it? I think it is unrealistic to forbid your partner to miss other people when they are with you. Especially when you have consented for them to have these types of relationships with others. You know, sometimes you are the one that they miss.

If we use the child analogy here, you wouldn't expect your mother to not miss your sibling or wish they were present or even think about them when they are with you. She might love the fact that she is having 1 v 1 time with you, but she's also thinking that the other kids would love this activity, or some 1 v 1 time, or she might realize that she hasn't had this with one or more of the kids in some time and needs to improve on that. She might yearn to do this with one of the children who isn't available for whatever reason. None of that takes away from the fact that she is still ecstatic that she is here, doing it with this particular child, but these other factors would cross her mind too.
 
a lot of the secrecy and jealousy i mention above which resulted in a ginormous blowout of a breakup. We spent about a year not talking then became "just friends" again which lasted a few months and then we were deep into it again. Again he pled his fealty to me as a monogomous partner and guaranteed he'd make me feel so loved i would never be jealous again. Sounded great to me so again went for it, and it resulted in a stupendous infidelity on his part. NOW we are going for it as poly. Which is the only reasonable way to try it again at this point. Honestly shame on me for trying it again, but......I'm a masochist apparently.

Truly he's a great guy. .

How the hell do you get over it though? I am going through almost exactly the same thing... Infidelity, lies and going behind my back and yet pleading for another chance and a future poly paradigm. How do you go back to trusting this person?

Even though we were technically broken up, it feels like he cheated. He gave me hope that we were on the right track to getting back together and sorting our shit out. We could have fixed everything between us and then moved to a poly situation that would have been acceptable for both of us. Instead he did whatever he wanted, knowing how much it would hurt me, risking everything we have. I feel like a complete imbecil... He's made a fool out of me and still, I can't leave.
 
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Sorry to hear you're going through that, cristina. :(
 
Hi kdt26417!
Norwegianpoly
Part of my issue is the comparison factor though - how do you deal with that? I am fairly confident in my looks (a new hard won development) and can look pretty nice going out, but I guess I worry any beauty/mystery/interesting element is seen through a veil of kittylitter colored glasses whereas others who live away from him would be seen through a veil of mystery and beauty simply because of their greater scarcity.
There is another element to living apart, and that is the frustration that might come along with it. Sure, it is easy to spin mysteries around my boyfriend because is less around, but that is also a source of endless frustration. When I want a hug he is not always there. There is sexual frustration. There is uncertainty of the future.... Wheras I can trust my husband to be there for any of my needs.
 
So - faster than the speed of light we are now officially a "poly" couple who are currently in a closed relationship. Though we had agreed to remain "mono" until we had worked through our issues - he's been sabotaging left and right and been completely resentful of everything related to our relationship because he couldnt tell a woman he has professed previously to have romantic interest in and a real interest in re-kindling a relationship with that we were eventually going to open up to poly (even though previous relationships and any other relationships are still off the table).

It will only be a matter of time before he makes life miserable enough for me to cave in to say screw it - see other people and then only another half step before he makes me so miserable i have to cave in to previous relationships too. I just don't know what to do. Yes I can ask - he may say yes to what i ask he may not, but if he does he will just make our relationship impossible until he gets what he wants anyway and I get absolutely no consideration for what i can handle right now or what might be GOOD for our relationship NOW.

I maintain I am open to changing things later, but need to take this SLOWLY. what we've agreed to is - work through our issues - have some time where things are GOOD with us (and no one else) and then when we feel solid together THEN open it up. ANd when it's open - continue to go slowly. Casual dating first for a while (we said at least 6 months) before entertaining anything serious. And for the time being/forseeable future NO previous relationships at all are permitted. This is what we've agreed on as a cautious and yet reasonable plan for moving forward.

Stay tuned for how quickly he can turn all that around so he gets what he wants ASAP and I get thrown to the side as i just was once again.

Meanwhile, he hides in corners and texts voraciously and gets angry if i even hint i'd like to know who he's texting.

What is the etiquette on all that btw? I thought over communication and transparency were one of the keys to success in poly. His attitude of "it's none of my business" is rude and suspicous in my opinion. If it wasn't anything he was hiding he'd talk about what he's texting just like everyone - for example - "oh crap - liz just got into a car accident" or "mel thinks pete is hot" or whatever.

Thoughts? Anyone have a truck they'd be willing to run me over with?
 
That does sound frustrating.

I think the bottom line is that you want to take it slow, while he wants to go very very fast. I am thinking he is self-conscious about the contrast between his inclinations and yours, and that's why he's acting resentful and secretive.

And I suppose he knows that if he makes you miserable enough, you will cave, right? This seems to be a pattern that has played out before. What does your couples' counselor have to say about all this? What about your own therapist?

Sorry you're going through all that.
Sincerely,
Kevin T.
 
I am sorry.:(

What is the etiquette on all that btw?

I think it would be for him not to make agreements he does not intend to keep. Just tell you straight up he wants to go 55 mph and he does not want to do 25 mph.

If he does not? The result is you become less willing to accept his Word on subsequent things because you have learned he keeps a flimsy Word.


Communication and transparency can be one of the keys to success in honest relating. Not just poly shape relationships. But is presumes ALL parties value communication and transparency and want honest relating. You seem to.

He does not. He seems to value "What is in it for me?" from the sound of it.

His attitude of "it's none of my business" is rude and suspicous in my opinion.

Yup. Because while everyone needs a degree of privacy, past experience with him yielded shenanigans. Since his word is flimsy and he's not doing much to change your vote of confidence in his keeping his Word? I could see you being suspicious of what he's up to. He's not being up front and forthcoming.

You seem to be preparing yourself for more of same ill treatment. Like you are scanning the horizon for inevitable incoming doom. If so... why do you choose to stay in the line of fire rather than get you out of the way?

If your experiences with him tell you that's the usual pattern -- for him to say whatever and then blow it off? Then he's ok saying whatever and then blowing it off again. He knows he can with no really change or consequence to him because you stay anyway.


You do not seem to like it. If he is not changing his behavior then you have to change your behavior. Could remove yourself and making yourself "un-dingable."

It will only be a matter of time before he makes life miserable enough for me to cave in to say screw it - see other people and then only another half step before he makes me so miserable i have to cave in to previous relationships too.

What's your limit of tolerance at?

How many steps does it have to be before you are miserable enough to say "Screw it. I don't want to be in this relationship being treated bad any more. I am out" to yourself and then to him? :(

Galagirl
 
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I mean this kindly: he's a douche and you're acting like a doormat for his douchery.

You're worth better than this. Get out.
 
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