New and Need Advice

polybee

New member
Hi Y'all,

I'm new to polyamory and it somewhat happened by surprise in my same-sex open relationship.

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History
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I'll try to keep this as brief as possible.

My fiance (we will call him "M") and I both met someone (we will call him "J") that we felt a connection with. We discussed our feelings with each other, and decided to allow ourselves to experience a polyamorous relationship with him. Soon, our relationship started growing and we began developing the relationship as a triad, and each individually with each other.

My feelings eventually grew and I found myself in love with both our new boyfriend (J) and of course, still very much in love with my fiance (M). J, however, is much more guarded with his feelings and has taken his time (not only with feelings but also with public labels). My fiance/partner (M) had yet to "fall in love" with J and is also very guarded and takes things slow at first.

Fast forward a few weeks, and we all took trips together and alone for various purposes.

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The Trips
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Trip 1: J goes to Chicago : New situations arose in our relationship that made me and M uncomfortable. We discussed these issues with J, though I took the lead in these conversations, and decided on a resolution that seemed agreeable. (It's a new relationship and we hadn't set any boundaries or guidelines and this trip helped us establish those. How we approach sex with others, and how we communicate honestly about sex with others.)

Trip 2: I go to Atlanta : I spent time away on my own and allowed J & M to bond at our home in Nashville.

Trip 3: M goes to Washington, DC : J and I had a great time at home in Nashville, talking and bonding. We went on a nice "date" to a burlesque show and dinner at 20's-style speakeasy. We couldn't wait for M to come back.

Trip 4: Me and J go to Atlanta : J and I opened up to one another. I enjoyed the trip and felt like we became closer. We went out with friends, had a great date at sushi and I felt like we really connected. (J on the other hand had a different experience that I didn't learn about until later ... we'll get to that in the Present Situation section.)

Trip 5: J & M go to Chicago : J & M spent 3 days in Chicago, exploring the city, going out and bonding. From the photos and posts, it seemed like an all-around great time. They had sexual adventures with others together that seemed fun and we all communicated.

(When J & M arrived home to Nashville, I could tell that the dynamic between them had changed... for the better. I was sick with a cold. I slept on the couch for almost two weeks to prevent spreading my germs. They slept together in our bed, ate together and went to the gym together. I was starting to feel distance growing between me and J. Despite this, J updated his relationship status on various social media networks and told his friends he was in a relationship.)

Trip 6: Me and M go to Atlanta : We had a huge snow storm at home in Nashville, where J stayed to watch our home and dogs. J and I had an argument about something that happened regarding the dogs/house/snow situation. M shared my point of view, but said that I handled the discussion poorly. I agree that I was combative and allowed the growing distance between me and J to shroud my judgement and I began the conversation by defecting (which of course, received a similar response).

(When we arrived home, J and I discussed the argument and while I stood by my feelings in the situation ... I also apologized for how I handled it. The distance between us was vast.)

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Present Situation
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Now that the history and trips are out of the way, here is where things are currently (in order of occurrence)

1. J and I are now further apart than ever, yet we are all contemplating a move to Atlanta together. (M is attending grad school in Atlanta, so he and I have to move. J wants to come along.)

2. I told J that we should discuss whether moving to Atlanta together is a good idea, given the distance between us. (despite the fact that I still love him deeply)

3. This upset J and he stayed at his house for part of the day, instead of coming back to ours (where I was and he usually stays). He meanwhile invited M over for sex (because M works near his house), but M didn't go (to my knowledge - I haven't asked).

4. J and I discussed the distance between us, and he said it started during Trip 4 when we both opened up to each other. He said he shared more than he ever has and it made him feel vulnerable. I shared and it made him feel overwhelmed, and that he also realized how deep my feelings were for him. It scared him and made him uncomfortable. He said we never found a time to recover because of me being sick and quarantined and continued to drift further apart. He said our fight during Trip 6 was "the icing on the cake." (More like the "nail in the coffin," if you ask me.)

5. J discussed with me that his feelings for M developed into love while they were in Chicago (Trip 5).

6. J told me that he does not love me. That he feels more connected to M. He said it only makes sense, because they have more in common, they do more together, they even share a sense of humor (while mine is somewhat "corny" and usually "not very funny"). He also said that I am excessively sentimental. He told me that I was positive and upbeat when we met, but I have become negative and my lack of motivation to go to the gym (in the past three weeks) makes me less attractive. He said I was once bold, but now I act meek and scared. (Probably stemming from the situation at hand, but also because they both told me a few weeks ago that I a speak too dirty in bed which is a turn-off. I have been super sensitive about that ever since.)

7. J told me that he wants us to mend our relationship, but I feel like I have gone out of my way to do little things that seem to do little to help. (bought him a nice bottle of his favorite wine while he was stressed about school, touch him and kiss him, trying not to be too "mushy," and I'm make an effort to keep things light and care-free).

8. I receive almost zero emotional and physical interest back from J. M is stuck in the middle and is trying to remain neutral until we work it out.​

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Summary
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I fell in love with J first. M doesn't express his feelings as readily as I do. I knew they were closer after Chicago, but I was still completely shocked and even devastated to hear that J had fallen in love with M (but not me). I guess, I just thought he would love me back. I thought I could feel it when he looked at me. There was overwhelming chemistry (at least, I thought there was), and now it's gone.

I smiled as he told me he was in love with M and reassured him that I appreciated him being honest, but then I calmly told him that I was hurting and needed to get out of the house for a bit (alone) and process my feelings. I felt like my heart had been ripped out of my chest. M has since told me that he too has fallen in love with J and still loves me very much too. I want them to love each other, but I want to be loved by both of them too.

I feel defeated. I feel like I have failed. I feel like many of the things he mentioned about his reason for not falling in love with me (see #5 under Present Situation) are things that are simply... well, me. I'm afraid I can't change some of those things, and if I do, I won't be happy. I'm afraid that if I don't ... I'll hurt both of them, and I'll lose J (maybe even M, in the process).

Admittedly, I'm lacking motivation to go to the gym (I was going every day - I haven't been since before I got sick/their Chicago trip). Now, I just feel crushed and it's hard to motivate yourself when you feel unattractive to the people you are with (and even to yourself). I'm trying to make time with friends to get out of the house and live my life (and trying very hard to not talk about this situation when I do).

To top it all off - now I'm getting sick again ... Already feeling like a third wheel, and somewhat of a nuisance/hinderance to their growing relationship, I got out of bed so as not to disturb them with my returning cough. I decided to search for a forum where I could discuss my situation with a community who understands so that hopefully I may learn what I need to do to salvage the relationship, to learn if it is something I can save, or if I just need to readjust my current "glass half empty" outlook.

I'd appreciate your advice.

Sad Human,
polybee

P.S. I tend to write a book. I am sorry. I suppose that is because of my "heart-on-my-sleeve" nature (or flaw). :(
 
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I'm sorry you struggle.

So while you are sick and all, how are you supposed to know that he feels scared and uncomfortable? Mind reader-ing? And instead of seeking connection by asking for time to talk, he jumps to conclusion that "you are drifting apart" and then gathers evidence of it or does behavior himself that promotes disconnect rather than connect? Weird.

Ask if he's willing to start the conversation over.

If he wants to repair things, ask him how he wants to go about it. LISTEN.

Tell him you are willing to try, and on your side you have been doing (list of things). Could he be willing to tell you which ones he likes and wants more of, and which ones he does not like and wants less of? Could he be willing to listen to behaviors you would like more/less of that he could do? Then sit your stuff.

I think both of you could develop the habit of communicating more directly rather than wanting the other one to mind reader.

And repeating back what the other guys say to make sure you go it right rather than going off into moods because you take it personally.

I told J that we should discuss whether moving to Atlanta together is a good idea, given the distance between us. (despite the fact that I still love him deeply)

What's up with the passive-aggressive? Is that your habit? To lash out/get digs/ go in all defensive and prickly when you are upset? How does that way of going serve you well? Isn't it easier to just report that you feel upset about something like...?

"I've been sick lately. I have been feeling disconnected and left out. I need attention and reassurance. I am upset that neither of us has made the time to sort that out. I don't want to talk about Atlanta move stuff first. I want to sort out that disconnect thing first. Could you be willing to do that?"​

Instead you make it sound like you don't want him to move any more. And he's supposed to pull teeth to figure out what you REALLY mean.

Him? He goes off taking it personally. Rather than repeating what you said to make sure he got it right first.

You: we should discuss whether moving to Atlanta together is a good idea, given the distance between us.

Him: Are you saying you don't want me to move to Atlanta with you any more? Or are you saying that you want to talk about distance between us first, before talking about Atlanta move stuff? Could you be willing to clarify?​

You both sound like you could improve your communication better.

You could also think about how you are communicating in trio.

We discussed these issues with J, though I took the lead in these conversations, and decided on a resolution that seemed agreeable

That can come across as "the parents talking down to the naughty child."
Rather than three equals noticing a problem and solving it together. It sounds like you chastised and you told him what was going to happen. And he didn't get a chance to come up with ideas too.

That can contribute to distance.

You guys might also want to talk about the elephant in the room. That is is ok if this turns out to be more like a V with M as the hinge. And you and J are friends, or friends with benefits, rather than boyfriends. Don't try to force it to be all of you each other's boyfriends.

Maybe that lets some of the pressure off.

Basically I see that

  • Both of you take things too personally
  • Both of you don't communicate clearly and expect some mind reader-ing
  • Both of you are kinda hot headed and just react (lashing out or jumping to conclusions) rather than ask clarifying questions. "When you say X, did you mean....?"
    • You go passive aggressive. Taking away Atlanta rather than talking about feeling left out.
    • He goes aggressive -- making it personal and picking at you physique rather than focussing on the real problem. (Rather than stay calm and ask clarifying questions, he reacts with anger that you seem to be taking away Atlanta. )
    • You guys ESCALATE like that rather then DE-ESCALATE.

Could work on those.

To me it sounds like both of you are the same in that you don't like feeling vulnerable even when letting some of that show would serve you better in terms of more authentic communication. Both of you go all defensive and do poor listening and lash out.

Where you differ is HOW you do the lashing. Passive-aggressive or aggressive.

And on your side at least... you eventually feel ashamed of that behavior. You do apologize (example with the dog/snow/house) after but you don't seem to to work on PREVENTION.

Instead you beat up on yourself. Drags that shame feeling out. Which makes you LESS willing to risk being vulnerable next time. (do new behavior). You make it more likely you will wall up again and lash out (familiar habit) so you don't have to experience yucky shame feelings like that again. Shooting self in foot.

Galagirl
 
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Hey GalaGirl,

Thanks for responding.

I do need to determine HOW he wants to go about repairing it. I feel like he told me all of the things he doesn't like, but I never asked what he wants to do to repair it and what he expects from me.

You are right. I jumped to the second stage of the Atlanta discussion, that may have never happened if I had just addressed the issue at hand first. We really need to resolve that issue before we even discuss Atlanta, and I made it become an ultimatum.

I guess I should have said, correct me if I'm wrong:

We have some issues that we have both mentioned that we need to work out, as I want us to be happy together should we move to Atlanta. Are you willing to sit down with me and discuss what we can do to work through this and expectations?

He and I do not communicate as well as I'd like.

In the trio, it wasn't really a parents/child conversation. I explained to him what hurt me (M really didn't get involved in the conversation, except to tell me that he felt similarly before I had the conversation). I told him why it hurt me and explained that both me and M had been in a relationship for a while prior to meeting him, so we may have just worked out the kinks of having an open relationship and we had not been given that opportunity with him yet. It was a serious discussion, but I don't *believe* he was made to feel like I was reprimanding him. I do wish that we would have all three sat down to talk about it, instead of just me...

I do agree that the majority of our issues are probably centered around poor communication.
 
We have some issues that we have both mentioned that we need to work out, as I want us to be happy together should we move to Atlanta. Are you willing to sit down with me and discuss what we can do to work through this and expectations?

Yup. Anything along those lines would have been a more thoughtful RESPONSE. Where you listen, think, and then speak.

Rather than just saying something from REACTING. Where you just blurt out whatever from upset.

I do wish that we would have all three sat down to talk about it, instead of just me...

I think you could sit down all three to avoid triangulation in these early days. You don't need MORE potential communication problems piling on.

I explained to him what hurt me (M really didn't get involved in the conversation, except to tell me that he felt similarly before I had the conversation). I told him why it hurt me and explained that both me and M had been in a relationship for a while prior to meeting him...

It still sounds parent-y to me. Just instead of (two parents tell the kid what is what) it is more like (Dad and Mom talk together, then Mom goes off to tell the kid the parent verdict.) That might not be how you MEAN it, but some people might FEEL like that. You could ask him if he feels like that just to clear that up and ask him how he prefers to be approached.

Or it sounds couple privilege-isn. (Us vs you) It doesn't matter if M has similar feelings. M could show up to the meeting and speak for his feelings himself. You could only speak for you. Each one speaks for their own. Don't be using "We think/we feel." When you talk about how you feel, say "I feel." When you talk about what you think, say "I think."

Some of that "what do we expect" conversation could cover "How do we three expect to do conflict resolution? What is our method?"

Then the next time the problem can just be (the actual problem). A single load issue.

And not (actual problem) compounded by (we don't know how to talk about problems and do problem solving effectively) like double or triple load.

Galagirl
 
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--- Just saw the last edit of your post ---

  • I do take things very personally. I believe he does too.
  • We need to work on our communication.
  • I know that I jump to conclusions. I should be better about this.

I do wall up. Beat myself up. And then withdraw more. I feel awkward trying to be intimate and close, though I do try to do those things. When I don't get the response I expect, I hole up again... and repeat the process.
 
Sorry about that. We were cross posting.

I know that I jump to conclusions. I should be better about this.

Well, maybe it starts by throwing away "should" and changing it to "could." Your inner talk then becomes
I know that I jump to conclusions. I could be better about this.

Telling yourself "I could be better about this" leads to asking yourself "Ok, how will I spot myself doing that? How can I handle it next time?" That way you are opening yourself to new possibilities and new ways of going and helping yourself out. Instead of shame piling on yourself, and pushing you down

Maybe you guys want to look into this defensive listening module and/or Non-Violent Communication. Especially the need inventory and feeling inventory.

Galagirl
 
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Hi polybee,

I am thinking you may be getting more worked up than you need to be. Okay, so things are tense between you and J. So, give J a little space and give it some time. Maybe J does want to fix things up with you, but he's afraid to say so.

Even if J wants a V instead of a triad, that doesn't mean he doesn't want a warm friendship with you. And if you can get to that point, maybe your V will turn into a triad after all.

Try to take a zen approach to your interactions with J. That's my advice anyway.

Sincerely,
Kevin T.
 
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