Secondaries: Do you feel secure?

PaperGrace

New member
This question is aimed at secondaries – descriptive or proscriptive – current or former.

“Any sense of security about the future that involves everything going exactly according to plan is a false sense of security.” [Bold added in place of italics.]

I took this quote from another thread and I agree. It got me thinking. What is a true sense of security? Does it exist? I’d like it to exist. I am a secondary in a committed relationship in part for the sense of security.

I know a lot of people (mono and poly) who do feel secure in their relationships. Sure, an Act of God could change it all around, but they feel secure. Feeling secure, like everything else, is an inside job. Still, they often point to outside circumstances that foster the sense of security they feel inside. Some point to the longevity of their relationship. Some to their religion and/or marriage vows. Some point to the level of intertwinement. They are so intertwined in finances and assets and family that it would take more effort to disentangle them than to stay where they are. Some point to the future they are both headed towards – that lake house in Maine or retirement community in Arizona. Monogamous couples have the added benefit of community support for their endeavors. That shared last name gets a lot of perks.

As a non-live-in secondary, I feel more secure because I’ve seen my partner stick around and do the hard work in our and in his other relationships. My partner and I have been together 4+ years and been through some tough stuff. At the same time, poly brings lots of changes into our lives in the forms of other life partners and other paths. I don’t feel that I can plan a future with my SO as his intimate relationship circumstances alone seem to change on an annual basis. We have very few practical entanglements. They could be undone in a jiffy. Most of my mono friends don’t know why I continue to date my partner.

For the purposes of this discussion, I am saying that security is distinct from happiness, although they often correlate.

I’d like to hear from other secondaries – Do you feel secure? What supports the feeling of security in your relationship(s)? If you don’t feel secure, what is going on to upset that feeling? What do you imagine would leave you feeling more secure? Hand-fasting? Shared assets? Acknowledgment from those around you? Therapy? :)

Or is all this talk of security just mental opium? Should we throw the security baby out with the commitment bathwater?
 
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I’d like to hear from other secondaries – Do you feel secure? What supports the feeling of security in your relationship(s)? If you don’t feel secure, what is going on to upset that feeling? What do you imagine would leave you feeling more secure? Hand-fasting? Shared assets? Acknowledgment from those around you? Therapy?

I am not a secondary - in fact I am the primary of two different guys. That said, I can be fairly insecure and it takes me a loooooong time to feel safe and secure in a relationship. My husband would say it took years, and I think some days he would even say I have more work to do.

With my boyfriend, we've only been together for a year, so I still have lots of unstable feelings there. We are very intertwined financially - joint accounts, medical power of attorney and life insurance. We are working on wills right now. We'll be handfasted in May and I am taking his last name as my middle name.

Still. Those things help, but I am still insecure.
 
Thanks for your input, Bluebird. I like the idea of taking your boyfriend's last name as your middle name. For many people, a shared name = family. Love 'em or hate 'em, they're family. :)

And you are right, security is still hard to nail down.
 
To my SO's family, I am yet another girlfriend, albeit a longer lasting one. I am not family.

Would I feel more secure if I were considered "family?" I'm not sure. They certainly don't figure into my future. They are an interesting lot, those folks.

Credit to my own father, he accepted my SO once I finally came out to him. Sends him Christmas gifts, asks after him in phone calls, all that. Then again, he is my only partner, so that's a little easier to accept.
 
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I have anxious attachment issues - ambivalent attachment. I know this though, but it isn't easy to overcome, even when I desperately want to fix it. Thankfully, both of my loves are secure types, so things do improve with time for me.
 
For the purposes of this discussion, I am saying that security is distinct from happiness, although they often correlate.

I’d like to hear from other secondaries – Do you feel secure? What supports the feeling of security in your relationship(s)? If you don’t feel secure, what is going on to upset that feeling? What do you imagine would leave you feeling more secure? Hand-fasting? Shared assets? Acknowledgment from those around you? Therapy? :)

Or is all this talk of security just mental opium? Should we throw the security baby out with the commitment bathwater?

I was happy every minute I spent in XBF's presence.

But secure? Yes and no.

Like you, the ongoing demonstration of him keeping his promise to me--a gift he gave me, one he had made of his own accord, unasked, to show me that I meant a great deal to him. As long as he kept that promise, I believed his other promise to stay with me as long as I would stay with him. I felt secure when I felt I was as valued as his wife.

But there were also things that undermined that security. One was his thoughtless (but no doubt honest) comment that they'd be retiring back to a different state, with no apparent thought to the implication--that I would stay with him for ten years or more and then the two of them would head off into the sunset.

Another was that his wife didn't like his promise to me, never mind that it was entirely his to make. She started pushing him to break it, to take that gift back. She went so far as making promises to others on his behalf, and signing him up for events without his knowledge.

He began looking for shades of gray in his promise, and inching a toe closer to the line. He began telling me he felt bad, that it really wasn't fair to his wife. (Actually, it was in perfect accord with their own agreement with each other, when they opened their marriage, so by pushing him, she was actually breaking her own word to him.)

His wife began having all sorts of 'changes of plans' that made it steadily more difficult for he and I to have a normal relationship. He insisted it was all bad luck. (Consistently, for a whole year? Nah, I don't think so). And that I was seeing things. I began to feel that in any difference of opinion, there would be no discussion, but that she would be right, and defended, and I would be wrong and expected to accept anything.

Another issue was that after two years, he wouldn't say the word love, although he clearly did love me.

He wouldn't introduce me to his friends. We lived in a private bubble.

He promised me communication, but when I brought these things up, he dismissed them, wouldn't answer them, or got upset. There's little security in realizing no attempt to talk is going to help anything.

What would have helped? I'll have to come back to that.
 
I have anxious attachment issues - ambivalent attachment. I know this though, but it isn't easy to overcome, even when I desperately want to fix it. Thankfully, both of my loves are secure types, so things do improve with time for me.

You post reminded me about that relationship attachment article someone else posted a while back. https://www.psychologytoday.com/blo...ur-attachment-style-impacts-your-relationship

I would say I am mostly Secure (I care, I fight, I seek comfort), although I do highly value independence and could see myself stealing some plays from the Avoidant Dismissive playbook.
 
One was his thoughtless (but no doubt honest) comment that they'd be retiring back to a different state, with no apparent thought to the implication--that I would stay with him for ten years or more and then the two of them would head off into the sunset.

Another issue was that after two years, he wouldn't say the word love, although he clearly did love me.

He wouldn't introduce me to his friends.

He promised me communication, but when I brought these things up, he dismissed them, wouldn't answer them, or got upset. There's little security in realizing no attempt to talk is going to help anything.

What would have helped? I'll have to come back to that.

@WhatHappened, your whole post saddens me, but the parts I called out above break my heart. Your feelings of insecurity were dead on, and I don't know that any amount of internal work would have alleviated them. I would have to be really detached from those circumstances to enjoy a person (in this case, your boyfriend) who made those choices. So detached, it wouldn't be worth relating - as it ultimately wasn't for you.

Is it really all on us to be secure?

I hope you do come back with some thoughts.
 
I have anxious attachment issues - ambivalent attachment. I know this though, but it isn't easy to overcome, even when I desperately want to fix it. Thankfully, both of my loves are secure types, so things do improve with time for me.

I do too, as does my metamour, thankfully our partner is a secure type. So when both of us are convinced he'll leave us for the other one he kindly but firmly tells us otherwise. He's committed. He's staying the course. He won't lie to either of us about the commitment he feels to the other just to comfort us. He doesn't put one ahead of the other (emotionally. Financially he has to, mortage etc), but discusses our needs and wants in terms of how all of us can accommodate each other.

This is easily the healthiest relationship I've ever been in, and he constantly makes me want to be better, to communicate clearer, to be (not just 'feel') more secure in myself.

So I would say I 'feel' secure. Because even when I don't I know he is secure, and I just need to stop doubting myself.
 
@WhatHappened, your whole post saddens me, but the parts I called out above break my heart. Your feelings of insecurity were dead on, and I don't know that any amount of internal work would have alleviated them. I would have to be really detached from those circumstances to enjoy a person (in this case, your boyfriend) who made those choices. So detached, it wouldn't be worth relating - as it ultimately wasn't for you.

Is it really all on us to be secure?

I hope you do come back with some thoughts.

The funny--or sad--thing is, I had and have no insecurity at all regarding his love for me. I believe even now, a year later, that he loved me as he has never loved in his life. I believe he felt a deeper emotional intimacy and connection with me than he has ever experienced in his life. But that isn't enough to make a relationship work.
 
I was always told I was a primary, but in the early years I sometimes felt like a secondary -- in a bad way. A bad, insecure way. There were a lot of little things that caused it. Perhaps the biggest thing was having to hide my relationship with Snowbunny. No PDA's. Feeling scared and ashamed when my metamour (her husband) might have cause to notice our relationship. While he knew about our relationship, I don't think he wanted to see or hear it.

Some of that concealment went away after awhile. The rest I got used to. I feel pretty secure now because my companions' display of loyalty towards me has lasted many years. After (x) number of years, I guess I felt convinced.
 
I was an "inadvertent" secondary (in the really negative sense of the word), meaning I had no intention of ever being in that role in a relationship since I don't practice hierarchy (and initially no knowledge that was how I'd be treated). Generally, I am a very secure, confident person; but, by the end of that debacle, I'd definitely become insecure in the relationship. Which, as it turns out, was totally warranted.

I was constantly told I was not "secondary," that relationships were allowed to grow on their own, that there was no veto power, etc. The reality is that the metamour (his legal wife) made my partner's life absolute hell the entire time we were dating, and just to get any kind of peace he gave in a lot. Which meant everything we did was subject to her approval and whim (though it wasn't supposed to be, of course, but it turned out that not doing what she wanted caused so much public and private drama it was impossible for either of us to get any peace), and the escalating stress eventually made my relationship with my partner untenable (the longer he and I were dating, the worse she got, even though we got to do less and less together in an effort to keep her from having a meltdown--again--at the most dramatic possible moment, in public).

This, of course, had a lot to do with him as a hinge; but, frankly, it had a hell of a lot more to do with her having serious mental issues that included anorexia, depression, and the need to be the focus of everyone's attention all the time (she wanted to have girlfriends who fawned on her and fell in love with her and moved in to be with her and be exclusive to her, but, despite her words, she very clearly did not want him to date--she wanted all of his attention, too!). I doubt any person could have handled it any better than he did, short of just not being poly themselves while letting her do whatever she wanted.

How did I handle it? Well, initially I tried giving in to her demands in order to keep the peace. She was also very angry she didn't "get to have" me (did I mention she saw people primarily as objects to play with, not as people?) and my attention, so I tried being friends with her. Mistake. That didn't work, because I honestly couldn't stand her. Finally, I insisted on complete separation of lives--no calls/texts/discussions/etc., but that failed miserably (because she wouldn't respect boundaries, and when he tried to enforce them, she escalated). Finally, I ended things when I just couldn't deal with the stress, drama, etc. anymore. I loved him, and ending it hurt like hell.

Their marriage ended shortly after I ended our relationship (with no "her or me" ultimatums--I just chose to remove myself from an extremely unhealthy situation). The even-more-fun part about that scenario is everyone thinks you're a home-wrecking cowgirl, even though that is absolutely not what happened, even though the issues came to light shortly after they were married and years before other partners entered the picture (and likely existed well before the marriage, clearly), and even though he'd been talking to her about divorcing for a long time if she didn't seek professional help.

Lesson re-learned: always trust you gut. If you don't feel respected, you probably aren't. IF you don't feel secure, it might not be that you're insecure as a person, it might actually be that your relationship isn't, in fact, secure.
 
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Is it really all on us to be secure?

.... trust you gut. If you don't feel respected, you probably aren't. IF you don't feel secure, it might not be that you're insecure as a person, it might actually be that your relationship isn't, in fact, secure.

I think this answers the question is it always on us to be secure? No, it's not. There are times I see people on various forums determined to 'work on themselves,' and I think what they're really doing is burying their heads in the sand, and deliberately allowing someone to pull the wool over their eyes because they don't want to see what's really going on.

... that there was no veto power, etc. The reality is that the metamour (his legal wife) made my partner's life absolute hell the entire time we were dating, ... the escalating stress eventually made my relationship with my partner untenable (the longer he and I were dating, the worse she got, even though we got to do less and less together...

....initially I tried giving in ....

She was also very angry she didn't "get to have" me ...

I feel there was a lot of this in my situation, too. 'Giving in,' rolling with the limitations she started putting on us. At first I didn't care. I just enjoyed being with him. But eventually, some things get to be very old. As does the realization he's not willing to go to bat for me to have what any other girlfriend has and the realization that I was going to be second if that's what she decided; that keeping peace with her was more important than basic respect for me.

Several things left me thinking BF's wife had some idea, when he and she first discussed whether he should ask me out, that he'd be bringing home a fun toy for both of them. I suspect this was just part of why she began to make things difficult, realizing I had no interest in that.

He swears they have a perfect marriage, but it doesn't appear so to me, based on his own words. I feel he's spent the last year still trying to get from me all that he's missing from her, and now that I've broken contact completely, I do wonder what's going to happen to their marriage, without me filling in all those gaps for her.
 
This, of course, had a lot to do with him as a hinge; but, frankly, it had a hell of a lot more to do with her...

IF you don't feel secure, it might not be that you're insecure as a person, it might actually be that your relationship isn't, in fact, secure.

@GreenAcres, I appreciate you putting that out there. I have twice been in situations where a metamour caused me to re-think my relationship. Where no amount of self-reflection and detachment on my part was going make my staying (and therefor continuing to be entangled with those metamours) a healthy situation for me.

It wasn't that I felt insecure. Like @Whathappened, I felt secure in his love and commitment. It's just that the metamours had so destabilized my environment, I couldn't find peace. That's not the life I wanted to live. When internal work isn't going to cut it, I look to see what choices of mine I can change.

I will say neither situation was anywhere near as bad as what @GreenAcres and @Whathappened experienced. I've only experienced being the focus of mild resentment/jealousy and it's unpleasant for me. Keep it going for prolonged periods and it's like emotional water drop torture. Still, nothing on the scale of what you both lived through. Hugs to you both.

I think this answers the question is it always on us to be secure? No, it's not. There are times I see people on various forums determined to 'work on themselves,' and I think what they're really doing is burying their heads in the sand, and deliberately allowing someone to pull the wool over their eyes because they don't want to see what's really going on.

Agreed.
 
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I have twice been in situations where a metamour caused me to re-think my relationship. Where no amount of self-reflection and detachment on my part was going make my staying (and therefor continuing to be entangled with those metamours) a healthy situation for me.

I will say neither situation was anywhere near as bad as what @GreenAcres and @Whathappened experienced. I've only experienced being the focus of mild resentment/jealousy and it's unpleasant for me. Keep it going for prolonged periods and it's like emotional water drop torture. Still, nothing on the scale of what you both lived through. Hugs to you both.

Is this your third poly relationship?

Do you mind my asking what sorts of things were going on in these other two?

I would say that nothing terribly severe was going on, but more as you say: prolonged water drip.
 
Like WhatHappened, I felt totally secure in my BF's love, his desire to be ethical towards me, and his desire to spend his life with me. From that perspective, I was very secure. But, it was clear that, at some point, he would have to choose between his wife and me, because all though she didn't have technical "veto power," she had the ability to make his life so awful that it amounted to the same thing. The reality is that his life was more "practically" entangled with hers, and also that he was one of those people who will keep his commitments to a fault, regardless of how manipulative and abusive they are, until he is beyond convinced there is no hope whatsoever that there could be any change. I didn't want him to have to make that decision, and i didn't want to stay in a continually spiraling relationship.

It would have ended, on his end, regardless, due to a third party. I am not sure how anyone could be secure in that situation (which is why I ended it).
 
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For an alternate perspective, I was in a FFM vee, where my GF and I were involved, and she and the male were involved. I was definitely "secondary" from a practical point of view: we lived a bit far away from one another, and both had other entanglements at the time, as well. But I never felt insecure in either her love or our relationship. My metamour was fantastic and supportive, and I was never treated as lesser. He and I didn't have a lot of contact, but when we did, we were both very friendly because we both respected each other, and were genuinely happy that our "hinge" was happy. In fact, he went to a great deal of trouble to make my first really intimate night happen with privacy and special attention. It was fantastic.

While a lot of people put everything on the hinge, and I do agree they bear the primary responsibility for balancing things, I do think that the behavior of the metamour can play a huge role in relationship security (and think this is especially true if one is a 'secondary' to a married couple).
 
@Whathappened, all of my experiences have been inside of 1 poly relationship. My partner dated and took on partners with some frequency.

My increasing discomfort was cumulative. There were a few confrontations about time and parenting between my SO and a metamour (his primary) in front of me, like I wasn't even in the room. I got angry calls on my phone when my SO didn't pick up his phone at the first call. He'd be laying on the pillow next to me, nothing he could do for her, just listening to her rail. Dark shadows would fall across her face when she saw me. I no longer felt welcome in their home. Group meals, rare though they were, were tense.

I had 2 direct discussions with my metamour and my SO. She complained how he left her to be with me. (Nevermind that it was a round trip.) How we did fun things. He and she had issues and she started pulling me into those. I stopped agreeing to meetings after that unless there was a very specific issue to address that involved me, and set boundaries around my phone and any "overlap" time.

She never stopped bean-counting any time or "extra" time I got so that it could be compared and made up to her later. I was a time-limited secondary, but not time-limited enough.

It's not that she was new to poly. She was in a triad for years prior to moving in with our shared SO.

I didn't resent her. I understood she had strong feelings, but she handled them poorly or not at all. I'm not good at ignoring other's anger/resentment when I am the focus. Since she and my SO had a child together, I wasn't even getting support from poly friends who thought I should get out of the way for the sake of the family. After months and months of this, I started considering exit strategies. Fortunately, something changed and I didn't have to.

With another metamour, she was so very far from being compatible with me, I can't begin to describe it. She had no agency, could do almost nothing for herself, blamed others for her many troubles, published a lot of her interactions. I would not have stayed.

All that, but I didn't feel insecure in my relationship with my SO. He was solid. My environment? Not so much.
 
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A regular date became too much to request or a goodnight or good morning text became invasive ; my time drastically reduced and his communication virtually scant or nonexistent. I struggled because I was being forcibly demoted to a fuck buddy status to ease his home life yet I was demanding too much to be considered as a human being who loved him and wanted to hold onto the little piece of him she had.

THIS.

This was things were like after a couple of months with my ex-boyfriend. Terrible, terrible. I was married and not looking to steal anyone's husband away. It was ridiculous, honestly. So happy he practiced such horrible poly though - it freed me up to find my Awesomesauce.
 
I
Self advocation is deemed hostile and demanding. The slightest expectation becomes a smothering unwelcome demand.
...

My former lover would tell you that polyamory doesn't work;

So true on the first. I objected to being relegated to our only 'private' time being in the back seat of a car, because his wife constantly had 'change of plans' every single evening we decided to use his home when she was out anyway. For a full year. I was treated as if I was being demanding, while he seemed very proud of how 'picky' she is about everything. He sneered at another man for wanting to take her on a date in a delivery van, but though the back seat of his car was good enough for me. NO. And no again.

The second comment jumped out at me, because XBF has similar feelings. While he will likely defend poly to his death, and suggests the problem was me being too picky ('cause apparently only his wife is allowed to expect to be treated with dignity? :confused: ) AND YET...he's told me many times over the past year that he'll never have another girlfriend again, because the loss and the heartbreak are too painful.

So he's gone back to swinger parties and casual, meaningless sex. But a girlfriend, an actual relationship, which is the difference between poly and swinging...no. He won't do it.
 
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