Understanding a break-up

I'm not sure what you are looking for here, validation that your husband "tricked" you? Maybe he did; how does that effect the end result? He even SAID he is taking the blame for this. It is sad, and it does suck, but it appears the romantic relationship is done. Allow yourself to feel all your valid feelings, but it would seem to be best to start reconciling yourself to his decision.
 
Originally Posted by WhatHappened
If they say, "This hurts and I don't like it," they are accused of all sorts of things, of control, of playing tit for tat, of jealousy, of not managing their emotions. So they say nothing, until they finally can't stand living like that anymore.
Nothing of the sort. We are not poly missionaries or think lesser of monogamy in any way. I am not a hard-wired poly; I have lived mono and liked it. Our situation was that I fell in love. He was allowed to give me rules, and I followed them, we used four years to open up, and I never pursued a real relationship with the first guy because he was too unstable. We agreed after opening up that he could veto anyone, except a long term relationship (more than a year). The problem is; this is a long term relationship. With inlaws and all.

Fair enough if you personally would not have said any of those things. I do wonder if he's heard them from others in the poly world or read them online such that he believed others (or you) would say that of him. Let's face it, many poly people do see any sort of rule or boundary as an issue of 'being controlling.'

And I do still think from all I've seen that it's highly likely he felt he couldn't really object to this and keep his marriage. It's just too common a scenario.

He did tell me, after 2 years into the new relationship, that he was not 100 % happy with poly, and with the long distance taking up a time and money. I listened to him every time he said something about it, and tried to find emotional as well as practical solutions to what he was feeling. I changed many of my habits, and explored possable future solutions. The problem was, he was focusing on a lot of small things instead of the bigger picture - which was mono vs poly. So, looking back, every time I fixed one of the problems he mentioned, it only frustrated him more because those things were not really the root of the issue.

And it's this sort of thing that makes me think exactly what I've said above. He told you fairly directly he was unhappy with the situation (big picture) and you focused on tweaking every small thing.

I can only speak from my experience, of course, but I've found that when I feel unable to tell someone directly that I have a problem with something, it's a direct result of a history that person refusing to hear, play word games with me, even get angry. XH did it, X poly BF did it. I finally walked away from both.


I was not 100 % happy with the way he did poly either; he spoke of one woman that he flirted with as his "soul mate", which really hurt my feelings. .... I ended up acting as a sort of life coach to the woman he dated, who was not able to discuss their affair with him. After all of this, she dumped him and broke his heart.

I truly do not mean to pick on you. I'm answering because you asked, trying to understand why this happened. But I can see where divorcing him and having him live elsewhere to marry your boyfriend might have been very hurtful to him. It's well and good to dismiss it as just on paper, I still really, really love you, but divorce and being asked to move out of your home for another man are huge. They are not just on paper, they mean something. The whole world sees his wife divorce him to move another man in--how does that make him feel or make him appear to everyone else?

And acting as a life coach to his girlfriend? Ouch. Again, I am NOT trying to pick on you or tear you down. I'm saying, look at it from her perspective. Because only by understanding another person's perspective and seeing how our own actions might have felt to them or impacted them can we have any hope of reconciliation and doing better next time.

How would you feel, as an adult, if your boyfriend's wife felt the need (or the right) to 'coach' you? I would find that incredibly patronizing. And arrogant. "I can figure out your life better than you can, even with your boyfriend."

I don't know the whole story of course, but from this, my own experience, and five years of nearly daily reading on poly from many, many sources, I'm guessing she left for a reason many of us secondaries leave: it becomes very clear to us that we are always going to be treated as just a little bit Lesser Than. We begin to feel the wives making sure we don't forget our place, or who's really in charge. There are plenty of subtle ways of doing it. And I've seen it very blatantly on the forum--the wives or primary girlfriends finding fault after fault after fault with every woman their husband/boyfriend dates.

They may believe in the forest--the idea of poly. Yet they find a problem with every single individual tree--the girlfriends.

I'm sure my XBF's wife says the same thing--after all that, I left him and broke his heart. Of course I did. She was playing games and making sure I knew exactly where I stood. She was playing the Silent Veto game and he was not going to stand up for me.

Now throw in that married poly men have a much harder time finding a woman willing to date them in the first place. I think many of them give up, feeling that even if they meet someone and fall in love, the wife is going to object to the next one, too. They end up sitting home alone while their wives date, feeling that poly isn't such a great deal for them.

Again, my intention is not to kick you while you're down. I know you're in pain. But you wanted to understand where this came from, and I'm saying, this is how things often look and feel to the other players in this situation.

Understanding, at least, is a good step to moving forward. I don't think he was trying to trick you or betray you.

Even before we started doing poly, there was always things about him and other women - his ex fell in love with him (mutually) again etc. And I thought it was fine, because I also had feelings for others. And I have no idea why he resents me having feelings for others, when he falls for other women himself. He has not in a while, but he will. He gets smitten with other people very easily.
I could likely write a book on that. Some of it ties in to things I've said above. I'll just say for now, people and emotions are more complex than that. Things sound good on paper but our emotions don't cooperate.

I hope you find some peace.
 
I have no idea why he resents me having feelings for others, when he falls for other women himself. He has not in a while, but he will. He gets smitten with other people very easily.

I'll echo WhatHappened's remarks by saying that your husband is not at all unusual and that people are often conflicted in this arena. That is why the world embraces monogamy. Poly is challenging, mind bending, opens us to murky and messy situations and all sorts of overwhelming emotions. Most people find others alluring from time to time, that's nothing unusual, and most people want to be able to explore this but would be devastated if their partner did. Monogamy gives us rules that offer us peace and stability in the face of all these conflicting wants. Debatably, monogamy has its own challenges (boredom, underground relationships, etc. etc. etc.) but that most of us are tempted by others is exactly why monogamy is the time tested default.

From what you've shared with us over the years, I don't see that your husband endeavored to trick you so much as he tried to move heaven and earth to give you a life that pleased and fulfilled you. Resenting that he couldn't be more self-aware is certainly your prerogative, but the title of your thread is "Understanding a Breakup" so perhaps this helps you understand.
 
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I think it's ok that it takes time to accept and understand a breakup. You both seem to have tried, but didn't manage to come on the same page. I tend to agree with those who are saying that divorce can't be percieved just as fake paperwork, but my opinion doesn't matter here. You're saying that you feel shocked and betrayed, which is probably common when the breakup comes out of the blue. The reasons and implications of the breakup will come to you as little or big realizations in the following months, if you give yourself time enough for grief and contemplation. Your husband will probably still go through a similar process, although he has already contemplated a bit more, he may not understand all of his reasons accurately now - and even if he does, it's a tall order to ask him to explain them in the midst of grief for both of you. You could also have a follow-up conversation once your seeing the situation from a distance of time and space, if you still want some answers then.
 
Hi Norwegian!

So, a few things I've noticed about breakups and divorces is that they are a long, gradual process. It didn't start at the announcement and it doesn't end at the leaving, and the two partners don't go through it at the same pace, so often one is surprised and confused.

Many changes occur and one of them is the separation of narrative.

Consider that before you had a shared culture of two. You had a shared history that you discussed and agree on, you reminisce you go over what happened and what you thought about it, even after a fight you talk until you both share the same understanding.

Now you are separating and part of that means letting go of having the same story. He's got to have his interpretation of events and you have yours. It doesn't matter whose is "right" : you will pick the one that makes sense to you and he will pick his. You no longer get to have a hand in helping him define this.

It's a very difficult dynamic to let go. Your natural urge will be to find agreement, to have you both come to the same understanding. But you've got to let him come up with his own.

As shitty as it sounds, you may have to accept that you will never fully understand. Accept that your stories about it are going to differ. Take him at his word about what he's willing to do and not, be honest about what you are willing to do, maybe it's enough to turn the tide, maybe not.

Trust me, though. It will be a LOT easier to go through this huge change if you can resist the urge to make sure you agree on the "why".
 
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I have to agree with ArtemisHunt here. Separation of narrative. He's going to have a different viewpoint of why the breakup happened -- a viewpoint that's not going to make any sense, by definition. It makes sense to him and that's what he needs right now.
 
I don't know if this will help with understanding or provide food for thought for others going down this road but I think people generally think poly Hell is something that happens in the very early stages and once you've gotten a couple yrs under your belt that's not going to be an issue. I think this case could prove otherwise.

From what you've written here it sounds like your husband was making subtle noises suggesting at least one or some of the elements of poly hell were on and cooking in the background for a while. Namely intrusion. Ll Not to beat a dead horse but the plan to divorce and him to move out for a yr or move one could argue hits all three headers....Demotion, displacement and intrusion.


On the other hand it's been said here quite a bit that every relationship has its shelf life and thus it may not be that important to understand every component which led to your husbands leaving. As someone already suggested he's taking responsibility for not speaking up so let him and be done.

Good news is now you don't have to go through a fake divorce and marriage and he's free to find is soulmate and mono partner.


Take care and good luck DH
 
I have to agree with ArtemisHunt here. Separation of narrative. He's going to have a different viewpoint of why the breakup happened -- a viewpoint that's not going to make any sense, by definition. It makes sense to him and that's what he needs right now.
Actually, it is not that different. We spoke yesterday. I apologized to him and said I had tried to pick of his cues, and failed in this. He apologized for not knowing himself enough and not communicating better. We are quite unisone as to why the breakup happened. He says that it is a pattern from his childhood to create emotional distance when difficult feelings arise. I agree that for the time being, it is better to be apart. Our communication is actually better now than before the breakup.
 
I'm not sure what you are looking for here, validation that your husband "tricked" you? Maybe he did; how does that effect the end result? He even SAID he is taking the blame for this. It is sad, and it does suck, but it appears the romantic relationship is done. Allow yourself to feel all your valid feelings, but it would seem to be best to start reconciling yourself to his decision.
No, not at all. He did not trick me, not on purpose anyway. It was all a subconcious process - but his actions did lead me on. I am not sure our relationship is forever gone. He still cares for me, he is still attracted to me, and I work on myself every day to understand him. We live apart, but he took only his clothes with him. I agree that he needs to be alone right now. Apart from that, only time will tell.
 
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Fair enough if you personally would not have said any of those things. I do wonder if he's heard them from others in the poly world or read them online such that he believed others (or you) would say that of him. Let's face it, many poly people do see any sort of rule or boundary as an issue of 'being controlling.'
Very few poly people here thinks or speaks like that, even those who personally prefer to dont have boundries are very respectful for people who do. I dont think he reads up on poly online that much.

And I do still think from all I've seen that it's highly likely he felt he couldn't really object to this and keep his marriage. It's just too common a scenario.
That could be true, but that is more pragmatic or/and a self esteem issue.


And it's this sort of thing that makes me think exactly what I've said above. He told you fairly directly he was unhappy with the situation (big picture) and you focused on tweaking every small thing.
He did tell me he was unhappy. There were several things in our lives that could make any person unhappy! I myself was deeply unhappy for the past year, I lost 2 jobs and I thought my mother was going to die. Actually, I was pretty sure what bothered him was his job, since he was complaining about that the most. He was complaining about poly too, mostly that he missed me when I travelled, and said we all needed to be in the same country. Even he has not idea why he said that when he did not really want us to close the distance.

I can only speak from my experience, of course, but I've found that when I feel unable to tell someone directly that I have a problem with something, it's a direct result of a history that person refusing to hear, play word games with me, even get angry.
The way he voices it now, it is that I did push him a lot to talk to me on what was on his mind, but he was the one withdrawing with anger or/and distance. He says this is a childhood pattern of his that he needs to work on. That does not mean I cant get better at understanding him, regardless. I am trying very hard to do this, but it is also not just up to me.

I can see where divorcing him and having him live elsewhere to marry your boyfriend might have been very hurtful to him. It's well and good to dismiss it as just on paper, I still really, really love you, but divorce and being asked to move out of your home for another man are huge. They are not just on paper, they mean something. The whole world sees his wife divorce him to move another man in--how does that make him feel or make him appear to everyone else?
I know they are not just paper. It is more like trying to saw off your arm to get loose from a cliff. We both cried while discussing it.

But HE was the one suggesting it. I would never suggest something like that to him, never. I did not have the right to. He was the one who said it was our only option.
 
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And acting as a life coach to his girlfriend? Ouch. Again, I am NOT trying to pick on you or tear you down. I'm saying, look at it from her perspective.
I was a little surprised as well, but I did it because she asked me to. She had none else to talk to, she did not know any other poly people and her relationship with her boyfriend was probably ending. She knew she had acted confused and hurt my husband. She said she had never been able to talk to a metamour before about feelings and decitions, she did not even know this was an option! But my husband had suggested it to her. Her previous experiences had been in sexually open relationships where people did not talk about feelings. She just wanted to know if I judged her. I said no. I said, I know you did nothing on purpose. I said, when you dont know, it is better to say that you dont know. That is still useful information. She thanked me and said she felt cared for. Later on, she dumped her boyfriend (and my husband), changed jobs, moved her home town and got a new boyfriend there. We stay in touch on Facebook. I think she is pretty happy now.

How would you feel, as an adult, if your boyfriend's wife felt the need (or the right) to 'coach' you? I would find that incredibly patronizing. And arrogant. "I can figure out your life better than you can, even with your boyfriend."
A lot of people in my life coach me. Often it is very useful. A friend of us just coached me and my husband when we struggled. That is what friends and family do; they listen and, if needed, give advice. She came to me, I did not push it on her. It was not strange to me, I was half expecting it since I know my husband had suggested it to her. It was a little harder than usual because I was angry with her in the beginning, but still good. It cleared the air a lot.

I'm guessing she left for a reason many of us secondaries leave: it becomes very clear to us that we are always going to be treated as just a little bit Lesser Than.
It is kind of the opposite actually. My husband dreamed of having children with her in the future, and I (dating a boyfriend in a serious relationship myself) told him that I could picture the four of us sharing a future, including kids, if things well well. He was very, very into her. She even met my boyfriend when he visited. How could I deny him a life with her? She is a wonderful person.

Anyway, when we had the talk, she said that she could not cope with having any kind of structure to the relationship. She did not know what she wanted - not even if she wanted to date my husband long term. She had broken the few rules I set up, contributing to my hurt feelings and my sense of being invaded (ie; she had sex in and slept in my bed). I worried for my husband (who had also broken the rules, but was also confused by her). She understood she had not gone about things very smoothly. She said she felt ashamed for being impulsive. I told her that talking to me was very brave and that I felt honored that she wanted to do that.
 
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your husband is not at all unusual and that people are often conflicted in this arena.
True, but when I asked my husband if he had any new strategies for dealing with falling for these other women he had no answers. The women pick up on that my husband are into them and tend to get jealous - they act like I am the one stealing their man. One woman declared that she was going to enlope with him. Even after we started poly, the girls he tended to fall for ended up being very draining. I have put up with this drama because I felt respected by my husband, that he aqknowleged that I could become interested in others as well and that he could contain my feelings. Now all of a sudden I am the harlot and he is the saint
 
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From what you've shared with us over the years, I don't see that your husband endeavored to trick you so much as he tried to move heaven and earth to give you a life that pleased and fulfilled you.
Not conciously tricking. I meant that his actions and words pointed in different directions than what was really at the heart of the issue, putting up a smoke screen making it harder for me to understand him. I tried to make life better for him too - changing habits and all to please him. Even he says he noticed this.
 
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You're saying that you feel shocked and betrayed, which is probably common when the breakup comes out of the blue. The reasons and implications of the breakup will come to you as little or big realizations in the following months, if you give yourself time enough for grief and contemplation.
It did not come out of the blue. It came out of a difficult period where he had been distant and in a bad mood a lot, I had told him "you are angry for triflets, what is really the matter?" and he had gotten even more angry because I was "picking" on him. We were in a period of smoother sailings, and I was looking forward to have more time for our relationship, including fixing /finding out what was really on my husband's mind. Of course I knew there were things he were not telling me. I had even asked him "Why are you so angry all the time?"

The problem was, he was buying himself time by insisting that:
1. We would look into the divorce/remarriage options (which later overwealmed him)
2. We were going to try having a baby (he insisted that we booked an appointment at a fertility clinic of his choice)
3. I should attend to practical issues (he was suddenly displeased with everything about the flat, there should be prettier cups in the cuppard etc.)
 
From what you've written here it sounds like your husband was making subtle noises suggesting at least one or some of the elements of poly hell were on and cooking in the background for a while. Namely intrusion. Not to beat a dead horse but the plan to divorce and him to move out for a yr or move one could argue hits all three headers.... Demotion, displacement and intrusion.
He was the one who suggested legal divorce. He even suggested where he could live/pay rent. He was very active in this plan.

I did see he was not fully comfortable. I reassured him that it was early stage exploring. I agreed to have a child this year, because he wanted to be a father before/around 40 (he turns 40 next year). I took him to a lawyer to give him more rights as my husband. I did anything short of telling him: "that was a stupid suggestion, you are not ready for any of this".

every relationship has its shelf life and thus it may not be that important to understand every component which led to your husbands leaving. As someone already suggested he's taking responsibility for not speaking up so let him and be done.Good news is now you don't have to go through a fake divorce and marriage and he's free to find is soulmate and mono partner.
I never "had" to do anything. It was an idea we were exploring.

I dont think he will be happy with me or anyone else until he understands why it is so hard for him to talk about difficult feelings.
 
He was the one who suggested legal divorce. He even suggested where he could live/pay rent. He was very active in this plan.

I did see he was not fully comfortable. I reassured him that it was early stage exploring. I agreed to have a child this year, because he wanted to be a father before/around 40 (he turns 40 next year). I took him to a lawyer to give him more rights as my husband. I did anything short of telling him: "that was a stupid suggestion, you are not ready for any of this".


I never "had" to do anything. It was an idea we were exploring.

I dont think he will be happy with me or anyone else until he understands why it is so hard for him to talk about difficult feelings.

So are saying even in hindsight that you don't think he was experiencing poly hell......even if it was a self inflicted wound?


I don't really understand what you mean by giving him more rights as your husband.....are talking about getting pregnant prior to the divorce and delivering after being remarried.



Ok " have" might be the wrong word. No need.

I think you're right he's doomed to have other relationship issues if he can't be honest thoughts and feelings.
 
So are saying even in hindsight that you don't think he was experiencing poly hell......even if it was a self inflicted wound?

I'm curious about that, too.

Someone asked earlier in the thread what you are looking for. At this point, I have the same question. You said you are confused (and presumably that you want to understand.)

It sounds as if you've found an answer: He had the perfect poly situation, he got unhappy about his job and his childhood issues and decided to tell you he's unhappy living poly and break up with you instead of focus on the job problems.

So the answer that's left is: you were the perfect poly wife, there was nothing more you could have done. Move on and continue doing the same things and hope the next poly husband doesn't have job problems or childhood issues.

I did say earlier that with him, you seemed to be focusing on tweaking every individual tree rather than hearing him saying very loudly, "I do NOT LIKE living in the middle of a hundred acre forest!" I feel you're doing very much the same thing in this thread. You are looking for every twig and leaf to counter and missing the big picture.
 
So are saying even in hindsight that you don't think he was experiencing poly hell......even if it was a self inflicted wound?
Of course pain can be self inflicted! The pain is still very real. I dont doubt that he has felt a lot of hurt, and is still hurting. But it is also hard to sympathize fully with his pain when he was also slowly inflicting pain and confution on me. He says that some of it it was "half coucious, half not". Even now, it is confusing and hurtful to hear him describe the last 2 years of our relationship. He sort of throws a lot of info on me which is hard to digest. I am sad because sometimes I feel like I dont know him anymore. I know this can be a transition, and perhaps later on we can get back together or engage as friends, but right now in this phase things are overwealming.

I don't really understand what you mean by giving him more rights as your husband.....are talking about getting pregnant prior to the divorce and delivering after being remarried.
I am talking about inheritance rules in our country. Ever since got married, we talked about writing wills to give each other full inheritance rights, which married couples without children dont automatically get where we live. We did not want any of our parents to inherit us, in case one of us died. So we went to write wills for this purpose. Then the lawyer said that we had to list people who would inherit us in case we both died at the same time. So I listed my boyfriend and he listed his brother. We planned to update the will as our life changed. And then as we left the lawyer's office, my husband slowly started to freak out.
The idea what that, even if my husband and I went through a legal divorce and I remarried my boyfriend, we would always be in each other's wills etc. I mean it was a not a fully thought out plan, but that was the jist of it.

I think you're right he's doomed to have other relationship issues if he can't be honest thoughts and feelings.
Thank you. I know he goes through a lot. Whatever pain I feel, I am sure he hurts too. I hope something good will come out of it.
 
It sounds as if you've found an answer: He had the perfect poly situation, he got unhappy about his job and his childhood issues and decided to tell you he's unhappy living poly and break up with you instead of focus on the job problems.

So the answer that's left is: you were the perfect poly wife, there was nothing more you could have done. Move on and continue doing the same things and hope the next poly husband doesn't have job problems or childhood issues.

I did say earlier that with him, you seemed to be focusing on tweaking every individual tree rather than hearing him saying very loudly, "I do NOT LIKE living in the middle of a hundred acre forest!" I feel you're doing very much the same thing in this thread. You are looking for every twig and leaf to counter and missing the big picture.
I am not trying to paint a perfect picture of myself. I am aware that I communicate differently from my husband and that I was not sufficiently aware of it. I was trying to think like him and make things easier for him in the ways that I could, but I suppose I ended up thinking too much along my own lines. The problem was, he was trying to think like me too and acting as if he wanted the same things as me.

So it was more like him saying: "I have divided thoughts about living in the forrest. But I am also not sure about living in the city, also I dislike moving. While we are here, maybe we should build a cabin?"

From the looks of it, it seems I will live mono with my boyfriend from now on (his childhood was ok btw - I love his mum - and he also has a steady job). Unless my husband comes back to us, after having worked out his issues. I just hope he can find happiness, whatever happens.
 
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Someone asked earlier in the thread what you are looking for. At this point, I have the same question. You said you are confused (and presumably that you want to understand.)
...
I did say earlier that with him, you seemed to be focusing on tweaking every individual tree rather than hearing him saying very loudly, "I do NOT LIKE living in the middle of a hundred acre forest!" I feel you're doing very much the same thing in this thread. You are looking for every twig and leaf to counter and missing the big picture.
Although I generally do not tend to agree with WhatHappened, this is, I think, a very good observation. You do seem to be thinking about (and answering to) a lot of details, but the main points of whole posts remain often unaddressed. Maybe that is a common bias in your thinking --- we all have these. Or maybe you haven't been asking as much for understanding, just a sounding board to write out the details, which is ok but then our writing has completelly missed your needs at this point in time.

So I also ask. Has the thread served it's purpose? Has it helped you any? Are there remaining questions for you? Do you perhaps want to reformulate the reques of your original post to something else now that days have passed?

I hope you'll be feeling more ok soon.
 
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