I Hit Another Bump, Keep Finding New Experiences I Do Not Know How to Cope

Well originally I never had boundaries in place for this type of circumstance.

The only boundaries I had defined was:

-I don't have the capacity to date casually or for fun, it's an interview process to me, like any resources I put into something that's obviously casual are resources I'd rather put into long term investments instead to secure a future of peace and stability
-If I was having sex with someone, in order not to feel like just a side piece of ass, I wanted to have more than sex dates
-No long distance
-I wanted two meets a week and daily communication
-If we were having sex, I'd like one overnight a week minimum with my long term partners
-Bonding time is on a schedule shared calendar but as long as communication happens, I don't care how firm the calendar is
-I only get upset when there's a pattern or it feels like I'm a convenienc
-Road trips are ok but I don't want frequent patterns of 36 hours or more away from my children while they are young, to relax that expectation as my children are grown and independent
-No sex without STD checks for new partners, protect the pipeline of other people I'm already involved with
-Frequent check ins to make sure no one feels neglected (that's my rule for myself, I'm proactive about making sure my partners don't feel that I'm too pushy or that they're ok with what I asked for and that they get their needs met too)


Those were the things I defined for myself and with my partners
 
Those were the things I defined for myself and with my partners

Those are fine but what about THIS relationship? Do you have boundaries for this one? How many times can he cancel a date last minute? How many times can she actively make your life harder? How many times can they try and down grade you?

Your boundaries are fine for starting new things but these need to be boundaries that are in place because of the poor treatment that you've been through.

You need to find a place to stand. You need actual lines, that if crossed, you are leaving. You seem reluctant to put them in place and I worry that you will keep up with this relationship even if it doesn't improve. You've put up with A LOT that seems to have crossed your boundaries to stay in this relationship. I think it would do you a world of good to write out what will make you walk and then stick with it.

If you put clear boundaries in place with your hinge you'll be able to see if he gives a hoot about them. I honestly think you are worried to be clear with him and yourself because you know that he won't respect them in the long run. That avoiding pain from his wife and placating her means that he will cross any line with you he has to. And you don't want to leave this relationship.

As someone who has been though garbage like this, and has a very forgiving heart and wants love to be enough, you've got to stand up for your needs. You've got to put self respect in a clear list. You've got to outline what you need so it's super clear when/if the hinge is failing you. Because you are LOOKING for ANY REASON to hold onto hope and forgive him. That's a fine way to start a relationship... but after nine months of being treated poorly you need to start looking at this relationship differently. Hold yourself and the relationship to a higher standard.
 
I do actually agree with you, that was a conclusion I came to on the drive home from work Thursday night when I got emotional. I discussed things with my other partner because I didn't know what conditions to set. I didn't like the three strikes rule and partner one/TheCerpent thought that was arbitrary.

I literally don't know what conditions I should be setting, especially since it feels wrong to set conditions predicated by a third party's behavior.

And it felt wrong to implement a conditional requirement when some of the cancellations were from illness and we had discussed a few times that the week of Christmas and holiday expectations across three families was going to disrupt the schedule. The only reason it became such an emotional mess for me was realizing that some of it was not related to holiday flexibility or illness.

I mean, what am I supposed to say? If your spouse threatens suicide again to emotionally manipulate you, I'm gone? I told him that, that I didn't want to be hostage to someone willing to use that as a weapon. I take suicide very seriously (past life experience with my mother).

I told him I wasn't ok with her calling him home from our dates when he told me they used to have a rule that one could call the other home at any time. Now they don't call each other home from dates.

I told him I wasn't ok with what happened this week and he told her that every other Thursdays were non negotiable for visitation, just as we alternate weekends so all of us get time on our days off with our respective partners, barring emergency.

I told him I wasn't ok with financially covering everything forever, but that I understood having tight finances with a child who needed special care. So when we have visitation at hotel rooms, we take turns paying for meals. When we road trip, I cover the hotel and he covers the gas.

I told him I wasn't ok with texting in the middle of sex. I told him I'm not ok with my partner being faced on the phone when we're together, that I want face time. He has responded and implemented.

He's receptive. He hasn't once told me I was wrong. And he has been receptive this week to breaking the normal calendar schedule of her weekend to taking care of my emotional needs because I had two dates locked out by her actions. He's not having panic attacks at negotiating boundaries the way he used to. He has gotten some backbone.

Am I just supposed to ignore the efforts, all or nothing? That doesn't seem right. And I haven't an arbitrary number or situation I can just point at and say, "If this happens too many times, I'm walking." Each bumpy ride that comes along has been different, the interactions with the metamour and his responses are the same in that I'm fighting so we're not undermined by trouble at his home but the circumstances, the emotional manipulation and the blow out are different each time. I can't say, "Don't take care of her when she /metamour is hurting enough to behave badly." I recognize that the behavior is not just controlling but also sometimes is a cry for attention, I've seen her crying.

I hold myself to a very high standard. I don't expect that standard of others. I am a very rigid individual and I struggle not to be too rigid with my expectations of others. My relationships are also held to high standards in the form of direct, frequent honest communication.

I generally get what I ask for from my partners. And they listen and respond to my needs. I'm not over here sitting in neglect caused by being a doormat. I'm frustrated because I don't know how to resolve a situation that requires direct communication with the person who I can't access and who can't talk to me and isn't willing to talk to her husband.

I get she has to do the work herself. I get everyone here seems to think I'm martyring myself. I don't agree with that. I think that I just get very emotional when I feel trapped and don't see a course of action without conflict and both paths of action feel like things I don't want.

So I had my emotional outburst, got some very wise bits of advice from this forum and stabilized. And talked to our hinge and relayed the information I was given here. We both expressed frustration that it feels like common advice tends to be to split or walk away. I found that in other forums too.

I do, let me repeat that, I DO, realize that at some point if it gets to be too much that I will walk. Part of the emotional work I am doing is trying to understand how to define that point. And my partner understands that too, he says he feels like he's waiting for me to hit a wall. And I told him that it pisses me off that he's waiting for me to hit a wall and doing nothing to help stop it (that was two months ago) to which he expressed frustration that he didn't know how he was supposed to control his spouse's behaviors when its not his place to control another person.

So yes, I see your concerns but short of relaying every nuance I can about the situation, I just haven't figured out a definitive condition that happens recurrently enough where I can say "Three strikes of this behavior and I'm done". It's an evolution.

It's not just about love, either. I know love is not enough. It's about finding things I have been looking for for a very long time (19) years and being happy to have found those things. And being lucky enough to have two partners who understand my need for those things and who are willing to buck the normal trend to give me the freedom to have access to those things. That's a gift I wouldn't give up lightly and why I'm resistant to walking away.

You know darn well it takes a long search, sometimes never, to find the right combo for some polycules. Some never find the traits they are looking for. Well I have. And I'm scared that I'll never find it again. I don't want to wait another 19 years.
 
I literally don't know what conditions I should be setting, especially since it feels wrong to set conditions predicated by a third party's behavior.
You're not setting conditions for either him or for her; you're setting them for yourself. Where is the line for you? At what point do you say "enough's enough"?

And I told him that it pisses me off that he's waiting for me to hit a wall and doing nothing to help stop it (that was two months ago) to which he expressed frustration that he didn't know how he was supposed to control his spouse's behaviors when its not his place to control another person.
What he can control is how he reacts to his spouse, and that is what you need to hold him accountable for.

So yes, I see your concerns but short of relaying every nuance I can about the situation, I just haven't figured out a definitive condition that happens recurrently enough where I can say "Three strikes of this behavior and I'm done". It's an evolution.
And I haven't an arbitrary number or situation I can just point at and say, "If this happens too many times, I'm walking." Each bumpy ride that comes along has been different...
You don't need to have an itemised list of unacceptable behaviours in order to recognise that they are unacceptable. This isn't the sort of thing where he gets to turn around and say "but subsection C of paragraph 4 only says I can't text during sex, it doesn't say anything about skype."
 
Emm,

I do see what you're saying about how it's not a business contract but the fact is contracts are pretty well spelled out exactly for that reason. And I kind of wish there was a well defined social contract, I've read about those before.

The year mark is Feb 2018 and I will reassess if I think the future of this relationship indicates if it will always be painful. And I do agree with your reply, even if I DO think being specific should be a requirement.

I am practicing Tit for Tat from the Prisoner's Dilemma and using some approaches from the blogs: Loving Without Boundaries and polyamorousmisanthrope.

I also practice negotiations for things related to bdsm reasons and those are very specific and I just cross applied my expectations of communications and specific acts to my romantic relationships. I don't think being non specific is ever an approach I will embrace. It doesn't have to look like business or boilerplate.
 
I literally don't know what conditions I should be setting, especially since it feels wrong to set conditions predicated by a third party's behavior.

How does it feel wrong to articulate your limit of tolerance or ability? :confused:

I deal with a LOT of mental health issues doing alzheimer eldercare for parent. So I cannot deal with more mental health stuff in partners, friends, etc. I don't have the bandwidth for more patient load.

For my OWN mental/emotional health to stay stable? I cannot be close/tight with any unmanaged mental health patients. It doesn't mean I think they are horrible. It means I have a limit to what *I* can deal with at one time.

Take the suicide gestures. How are those handled? If it is once in a GREAT long while and it is handled by seeking a doc check up, checking if meds are still correct, etc? I am willing to stay. Because the patient (my meta) is doing their best to do their management plan. Slip ups can happen. People drop their marbles. But if after that, they try to pick them back up decently by checking in with their doc, doing labs to make sure meds are still correct or similar? Then I am ok with it.

But if suicide gestures are happening a lot? And the patient is unmanaged? Refuses to see a doc and work with them to develop their patient management plan? Or has a plan but will not work it? I don't want to deal with that. That's my line in the sand. My boundary is "For my own mental/emotional health to be stable.... I cannot be close to patient people who are not doing their management plans."

If they demonstrate that they are trying to work on their health? Making doc appoints, meds, stress management, anger management, doing whatever their patient plan requires of them? They work that show? Alright. We can hang out and be together because they are doing their patient management. I don't mind being with people in progress. I can forgive the slip ups that happen here and there. Nobody is perfect. Because I can see the intent is pointing towards management.

If they are NOT doing their patient management things and want to hang out/use me for emotional dumpster/some other thing? The intent is pointing toward mess and the result is me being dinged a lot? I do not want to participate in things like that. I don't want to be close with people who don't want to attend to their health and are up and down all the time.

My consent to participate in things belongs to me. So... I will say no, thanks. Because I have to attend to my OWN health care and I know I get super frustrated/stressed/anxious/trapped feeling when I am in that position. And I greatly dislike it.

I mean, what am I supposed to say? If your spouse threatens suicide again to emotionally manipulate you, I'm gone? I told him that, that I didn't want to be hostage to someone willing to use that as a weapon. I take suicide very seriously (past life experience with my mother).

You can say "There's been X suicide gestures this year. That's too many for me up close.

I cannot hang around unmanaged people or hear about unmanaged people if I want my own health to be ok. I need a break/more space from that.

I hope you get your spouse to health care. If spouse is working her management plan, then we can get together more often. If not? I need to reduce to _____ times a week and I need you to stop telling me every time there's a thing on that side of the V."

You don't have to break up if you don't want to break up. But you do have to change your level exposure to the drama. If you do not want to remove yourself from this poly network, then reduce your exposure to the wacky.

He's receptive. He hasn't once told me I was wrong. And he has been receptive this week to breaking the normal calendar schedule of her weekend to taking care of my emotional needs because I had two dates locked out by her actions. He's not having panic attacks at negotiating boundaries the way he used to. He has gotten some backbone.

Well, that's good.

Am I just supposed to ignore the efforts, all or nothing?

You could reassess. It's it enough effort for now for you to be willing to keep on with this or not? Only you can make that call.

If so... then keep going with it and decide you will take reassessments annually or every X months or whatever.

I'm frustrated because I don't know how to resolve a situation that requires direct communication with the person who I can't access and who can't talk to me and isn't willing to talk to her husband.

That is why my boundary is what it is:

"For my OWN mental/emotional health to stay stable? I cannot be close/tight with any unmanaged mental health people."​

I cannot hang around people who will not do their management plan -- whatever it is. I cannot be hearing the daily or weekly play-by-play of what is going on with them from them directly OR from other people. I do not care to know at that high a frequency.

I cannot control whether they are willing to do their management plan or not.

I CAN control how close I am to them and whether or not they ding me.

So I would see partner less often, and ask them not to share their spouse troubles with me for a while. I would take the break I need away from hearing about all that/experiencing all that.

I would put my own oxygen mask on first. And if what I need in the moment is to do my own self care? That's what I'm going to do.

I think that I just get very emotional when I feel trapped and don't see a course of action without conflict and both paths of action feel like things I don't want.

Not every choice in life is "win or lose." Some are "This option stinks. That option stinks. There is no rose smelling choice. So which one stinks least?"

Are you not comfortable with having to do conflict resolution? You seem to be doing it ok with him. You make requests. He implements them.

And I told him that it pisses me off that he's waiting for me to hit a wall and doing nothing to help stop it (that was two months ago) to which he expressed frustration that he didn't know how he was supposed to control his spouse's behaviors when its not his place to control another person.

No. He cannot control if his spouse calls him while he's on a date with you. He CAN control if he answers it right then or let's it go to voice mail.

He cannot control when someone texts him. If the phone boops while he's having sex with you from some text thing? He CAN control if he answers it right then or not.

Why is that confusing for him? :confused: Stop worrying about controlling her behavior and control his OWN behavior.

It's like... She does X, so he reacts right away and does Y.

He could learn to take a time out. A breather space. Slow it down. To give him time to think and RESPOND thoughtfully to the situation rather than just knee jerk REACT to the situation.

Most of the stuff you list that was resolved you frame like it was her doing. Well, she may have done behavior X to start it. But he did behavior Y to keep it going. You cannot ask him to control HER behaviors... but you CAN ask him to change HIS.

You can ask him to stop "reacting on auto-pilot" every time she dings his bell. And learn to RESPOND instead.

You know darn well it takes a long search, sometimes never, to find the right combo for some polycules. Some never find the traits they are looking for. Well I have. And I'm scared that I'll never find it again. I don't want to wait another 19 years.

I'm not sure what you are saying there. Could you be willing to clarify?

Are you saying something like...

"It took me 19 years to find this V combo. Dealing with his spouse is part of the price of admission. I'm still willing to keep paying the price because I'm scared that if I stop he will leave, and then I won't ever have a V like this again."

Something like that?

Could you be willing to clarify?

Galagirl
 
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How does it feel wrong to articulate your limit of tolerance or ability? :confused:

"It took me 19 years to find this V combo. Dealing with his spouse is part of the price of admission. I'm still willing to keep paying the price because I'm scared that if I stop he will leave, and then I won't ever have a V like this again."

Something like that?

Could you be willing to clarify?

Galagirl

Well, I've identified as a submissive in the bdsm culture since I about 2001. I never found anyone that felt right enough for me to trust with exploring that need until Awpti/the hinge in our vee. There were lots of people on Fetlife and in the kink culture and on OKCupid that wanted that role but the things I needed to feel safe and explore that aspect of life that I wanted were not there. And as the BDSM culture is self policed, and easy for predators to take advantage of people, especially submissive identified women, I was very careful. I have gone to so many munches and gatherings, talking to people and exploring/communicating things. There were many people that COULD have dommed or topped me (those are not the same things) but, like you, I considered the person who I chose needed to be healthy mentally.

Awpti is the first person where I haven't had to bolster anxiety or depression or been worried that I wasn't safe. This sounds silly, but he identifies as a guardian of the people he provides for and I identified as a guardian and provider of the people I provided for. And because he knew exactly what it felt like and we shared the same ideas and concepts, he was able to provide to me the freedom and safety I needed to finally have some personal needs met. In fact, Friday, when he came over to take care of my emotional needs, we entered into the D/s dynamic which is separate from the romantic dynamic.

Generally I try to be as giving as I can but sometimes when the pressure of trying to be strong and rational builds up, I need that release. I spend a lot of time being the caretaker in my family, doing shit that doesn't bother other people because they have a higher threshold for filth and the like. I'm working full time as a mother of twins and no one in my house really kicks in the cleaning until I start breaking down despite me asking and asking and asking for about three years. I'm to the point where I want my own apartment again so that I only have to deal with my and my children's messes.

You know how people speak about taking care of your own mental needs/treating yourself as primary? Well, keeping Awpti and my relationship going DOES take care of a need, a very specific need that I am so relieved to finally have someone who can fill the spot in my head/provider and caretaker/ for a few hours while I let go thinking and just be an object and feel. It is very calming and helps center me to not have to think for a few hours.

It isn't sex and orgasms. It's a headspace. I get a chance to cry but it's not a hurting cry, it's like a tea kettle letting the pressure out. And I'm so relieved to have that. There isn't anyone else I trust enough to have that with and it's an intangible quality I couldn't describe in words well enough for or to anyone that doesn't have the same explicit need.

I don't know if that helps your understanding.
 
Actually it helped a lot. I'm familiar with that headspace.

In my own world I describe it as "I'm tired of being the heartbeat of the home. I don't want to be thinking or in charge right now."

Over here it is me who does all the things, gets the routines going, maintains clean spaces, provides for others etc. All that is rewarding work. But sometimes it is nice to be on the other side of the coin and have someone else doing the providing, in the driver's seat, doing the things, attending to ME, etc. And for me to let that seat go, I have to trust they are capable drivers. And it's nice to have that in my partner and be able to relax, lay burdens down, surrender, etc. I know what you mean about it not being sex and orgasms but a headspace.

So yeah. I can better see why you want to keep trying to work this stuff out.

I think though, that if stuff with the wife is getting to be too much? It's still ok to pull back from that a bit for a time so you can restore yourself. You cannot run yourself ragged on this. Taking a time out for yourself for a while is not quitting or abandoning the relationship. It's doing what you have to do so you can continue in it in a healthy way rather than burning out.

He seems responsive when you make requests. So make them.

Ask Awpti to keep (him and wife stuff) to himself on that side of the V unless it pertains to (X specific things. Maybe calendar, sex health labs, etc. You make the short list). But no more play-by-play of her condition and whatever she's doing/not doing about it. If he needs to vent about that stuff it may need to be with someone else because you are too close to it. If he's got 100 lb of load to share and your bucket can only take 1 lb or less, overloading you with it does not good. If he can refrain from overloading you with TMI data, then keep seeing Awpti however often you do. You have reduced your exposure by asking him to stop and he stops telling all this extra wife stuff to you that is aggravating.

If he cannot stop talking about his wife and her troubles to you? Consider seeing him less often for a while so you catch a break and you reduce your exposure to it that way.

Galagirl
 
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I'm so grateful you understand, Galagirl, Thank you

I know I came for help, but I was feeling a little like I had to defend the relationship in addition to trying to be open to the help.

I'm grateful that you understand the headspace that is valuable to me. And I agree with the things you and the others have said.

We're learning. I know not to ask how the other partner is now, I just ask about him and his children. It still feels wrong though, a little. Still probably mourning the kitchen table poly style community everyone said they wanted in the beginning. But I hear what everyone is saying.

I really appreciate the stability the community here gave me by supporting me with words and advice. So thank you again for helping me with this emotional labor.
 
like I had to defend the relationship in addition to trying to be open to the help.
Yes, actually that's kinda the deinition of "help." If you KNEW exactly what you needed to do, likely you wouldn't need to be asking for directions.

IME, it's surprising how often a disinterested stranger can offer great insight. That is a major reason that I hang around here. I hope that you will persist.
 
Glad it helped some.

We're learning. I know not to ask how the other partner is now, I just ask about him and his children. It still feels wrong though, a little. Still probably mourning the kitchen table poly style community everyone said they wanted in the beginning.

You could ask. Just ask less. If you used to ask every time you saw him, ask only once a month, or once a quarter. Less exposure to the wacky.

Galagirl
 
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