When the secondary visits

I'd appreciate any advice on dealing with the time when my primary partner has private bedroom time with her long-distance secondary in our house. My response of jealousy, hypervigilence, and insomnia during his last visit was not good for any of us.
 
I think it might help if you gave us some more information. Here are some questions that will fill in some blanks:
  1. How long has your wife been involved with this person?
  2. How long is he planning on staying?
  3. Is that longer, shorter, or the same as last time?
  4. Have you planned to spend time with him one-on-one (as friends) or with him and your wife together on outings?
  5. Do you have an additional relationship, too?
  6. What kind of physical space do you live in and what will the sleeping arrangements be? Or what room will they be staying in?
  7. What were the most glaring things you had the biggest problem with the last time?
 
Like nycindie said, we need some more information about your situation. However, my husband and I have a system for spending time with my boyfriend.
In general I don't cuddle/touch either of them when we're all together, mainly because its relatively new to us, and we're still testing boundaries. The secondary and I don't have sex in the same bed as my husband and me, and I don't have sex with one of them while the other is in the house. One day, we might be comfortable enough to eliminate one of more of these rules, but this works for us now.
 
Thanks for the quick responses, nycindie and leannahope. As requested, here's the skinny. She's been involved with him three years, two as her distance primary and one as a secondary since I entered the picture as her local partner ten months ago. He's visiting for two weekends at the turn of the month which is the same duration as his last visit in the summer when we didn't have any one-on-one time but did plenty as a threesome. He and I share a mutual love for her but don't have or desire a separate friendship. She's encouraged me to explore other distance relationships but I'm 0/2 on that count. Neither of the former lovers I visited were able to accept that I live with and love someone else. On his last visit we spent the first weekend sharing a queen bed which worked out great for love-making but not so great for sleep. He slept in her former bedroom and current temple on the second weekend due to her teen daughter being home and this is when I got jealous and agitated - when she had alone bedroom time with him in our house. Herbal sleep aids didn't do the trick, ambien/lorazepam did but I don't want them, and she doesn't want me to leave for the weekend which is my inclination. Any other tricks of the trade?


I think it might help if you gave us some more information. Here are some questions that will fill in some blanks:
  1. How long has your wife been involved with this person?
  2. How long is he planning on staying?
  3. Is that longer, shorter, or the same as last time?
  4. Have you planned to spend time with him one-on-one (as friends) or with him and your wife together on outings?
  5. Do you have an additional relationship, too?
  6. What kind of physical space do you live in and what will the sleeping arrangements be? Or what room will they be staying in?
  7. What were the most glaring things you had the biggest problem with the last time?
 
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she doesn't want me to leave for the weekend which is my inclination.

I will just say on that note, when I think a solution works GREAT for me, but my partner's wanting me to not do it, I'm going to do it my way if there's no good reason not to. Nobody else should decree how I deal with my feelings. If you would feel better elsewhere, but don't want them to have to give up time together, I see nothing wrong with doing just that. It's not like it happens every month, and you'd know sooner than later if you would rather be in your own room after all. Nothing is stopping you from changing your mind and going back home if you want at any point in the visit.

Only reason I can think that she doesn't want you to leave (unless it's a $ issue) is that she feels guilty, but that's really her issue to work through. I think it's great that you are trying to take care of yourself. I don't see how it's better for you or her if you're home and suffering. I'd make a little solo road trip out of the weekend if it was feasible. Gotta be fun places to visit within driving distance.
 
Hey, thanks for the understanding, Anneintherain (love that name!). She would like the two of us guys to be friends and allies and that is the biggest reason she would rather I didn't leave when he visits.

My partner who's also on this forum as Mara reminded me that she had broken up with her other guy as she and I were coming together but then reinitiated with him when we decided to open up the relationship. I realized on a long run last night that I had envisioned courting a mutual partner with the new open relationship. Her bringing back her ex and my checking out my own ex's has brought some distance to our partnership, though we are talking about it now and committed to finding a way to be loving and supportive of each other. I didn't realize how much writing it down and receiving the perspective of others more experienced in multiple partner relationships would help clarify some confusing and contradictory feelings so thanks to the forum and all those who've responded so far.
 
Hey, thanks for the understanding, Anneintherain (love that name!). She would like the two of us guys to be friends and allies and that is the biggest reason she would rather I didn't leave when he visits.

My partner who's also on this forum as Mara reminded me that she had broken up with her other guy as she and I were coming together but then reinitiated with him when we decided to open up the relationship. I realized on a long run last night that I had envisioned courting a mutual partner with the new open relationship.

You were imagining having a "unicorn." Male or female, does it matter? You said you've had 3ways with her other partner... are you both bi?

Her bringing back her ex and my checking out my own ex's has brought some distance to our partnership, though we are talking about it now and committed to finding a way to be loving and supportive of each other.

You two are running into a very common scenario. It seems most couples first look for a "single hot bi babe" to share, when first opening their marriage. This hardly ever happens, and the partners go on to date separately. It's nice when ones' 2 partners click as friends, as your wife seems to wish, but that doesn't always happen either.
 
You were imagining having a "unicorn." Male or female, does it matter? You said you've had 3ways with her other partner... are you both bi?



You two are running into a very common scenario. It seems most couples first look for a "single hot bi babe" to share, when first opening their marriage. This hardly ever happens, and the partners go on to date separately. It's nice when ones' 2 partners click as friends, as your wife seems to wish, but that doesn't always happen either.
Inny or outy, either way is good for us as long as it's mutually respectful with shared life goals and earth based spirituality. Does that make us both bi? Either way, giddyup horsey!

So how does it work out in the end when each partner dates separately? I can feel myself detaching some from the primary relationship as she and I have started down that path.
 
She would like the two of us guys to be friends and allies and that is the biggest reason she would rather I didn't leave when he visits.

That makes sense, but really it doesn't matter too much what she wants when it comes to you getting through any discomfort you go through sharing your house for an extended time with a metamour. I don't know if you're having company again his time that would have her being with him while you sleep alone, or if you just want them to have time alone but don't want to sit twiddling your thumbs in the next room knowing they are right there, but if you will be the one alone with your thoughts and not her, it can be more selfish than loving to try to get you to stay there if you don't want to.

If you would be willing to stick around some to just say hi, have dinner, whatever, that might be a good compromise that would get some of her desires met - but only if you want to.

I would LOVE it if my boyfriend and husband desired a friendship, whether independent or hanging out all together, or with my bf's wife, etc. What I HAVE though, is a boyfriend who met my husband once for 5 minutes. Somehow they always manage to miss each other when he's leaving the house after a visit. My husband doesn't feel the need for more than that, and since he is gracious enough to coordinate his schedule to give us time alone here, it's his comfort level that matters more than any agenda I have to get the happy poly "family" of friendships I'd envisioned.

I'm glad writing your problems down has given you insight to realize that there's a bit of distance going on that needs to be addressed before it became a big problem!
 
So how does it work out in the end when each partner dates separately? I can feel myself detaching some from the primary relationship as she and I have started down that path.
Detachment isn't necessarily a bad thing. I think it's a huge lesson for any couple to learn that they can still love each other deeply and not be "attached" in the way they used to be, or in the way that monogamous society thinks it should be. There is a lot to be gained in recognizing a partner's autonomy and individuality. To me, attachment smacks a bit of possessiveness, of holding the other back, and of wanting things to stay the same. Really, when you love someone you want them to be happy and free, not attached and dependent. A partnership is standing beside the person you love, being supportive when asked and holding up a mirror when needed, but we all make our journeys through life on our own terms.

You're looking at some good stuff and asking the right questions!
 
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So how does it work out in the end when each partner dates separately? I can feel myself detaching some from the primary relationship as she and I have started down that path.

One more thing that works differently for everybody. For me there have been occasions where I feel a bit distant, and more times when I feel a lot closer to my husband depending on what's going on. My husband often feels a bit distant from me right before or right after a date he says, but that _might_ be because he isn't having any other sexual relationships right now.

That probably is compounded by the fact that my dates are at home the majority of the time for the moment, which means most of the time I'm showing up to bed with my husband 5 minutes after saying goodnight my boyfriend. Having a transition period between partners can be very useful (or necessary) for some people. I've seen other people talking about that in some threads/blogs here. I noticed it was much more relaxing when I was previously married, and had a 2.5 hour drive home from my boyfriends so there was space to process and direct my energy back to my primary instead of being all dreamy over my boyfriend.

We try to make sure that we have a night alone together after two nights where we have plans doing other things. Ideally we try to have every other day at home/out together, but it's harder to manage with his girlfriend's availability (and the availability of other people he goes out with, most of who have at least a couple of other relationships too) so juggling can be a bit tricky to manage sometimes.

My advice is to start off scheduling right off the bat, before it can ever become a problem of one partner being unhappy because they aren't getting their needs for quality time (or time to do chores and household stuff) met.
 
Inny or outy, either way is good for us as long as it's mutually respectful with shared life goals and earth based spirituality. Does that make us both bi? Either way, giddyup horsey!

hehe, OK cool.

So how does it work out in the end when each partner dates separately? I can feel myself detaching some from the primary relationship as she and I have started down that path.

It varies. Sometimes it brings the couple closer. One needs to watch out for NRE, new relationship energy. We can get so wrapped up in a new crush we can neglect our primary. We need to schedule romantic dates/quality time with the primary to keep that relationship strong.

After NRE fades, (3-18 mos usually) things get more balanced.
 
the last time J visited with us I only spent one hour alone with him. I slept in the same bed with saltandredpepper every night during J's visit. Although J did sleep with us one night. Before he came to visit SRP asked me to choose whether I wanted the relationship with J to be solo or to include him. I wanted to include SRP....

I really don't want to ask SRP to leave or encourage it because it seems selfish and rude to have a visitor in our home that makes him feel jealous, uncertain or insecure.

I love SRP and want our life together to be supporting, loving, and nurturing. We seemed to handle things pretty well when we were all together. I fret that if he goes off by himself he will not sleep.His complex feelings in coping with feelings of jealousy have brought on insomnia before.

I guess I need to let go of that.

Mara
 
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the last time J visited with us I only spent one hour alone with him. I slept in the same bed with saltandredpepper every night during J's visit. Although J did sleep with us one night. Before he came to visit SRP asked me to choose whether I wanted the relationship with J to be solo or to include him. I wanted to include SRP....

I really don't want to ask SRP to leave or encourage it because it seems selfish and rude to have a visitor in our home that makes him feel jealous, uncertain or insecure.

I love SRP and want our life together to be supporting, loving, and nurturing. We seemed to handle things pretty well when we were all together. I fret that if he goes off by himself he will not sleep.His complex feelings in coping with feelings of jealousy have brought on insomnia before.

I guess I need to let go of that.

Mara

Well, honey, just like maintaining a relationship with J is a way of looking after yourself, so is going out and giving you space a way for your hubs to look after himself. Don't worry if he's getting enough sleep or not; he's a big boy and I'm sure he will take care of himself. Making him stay around when he's struggling won't help. I am an insomniac myself; sometimes there's nothing that's gonna keep it from happening except for some drugs. But his needing space from your private time with J is more about taking care of himself emotionally/psychologically, and because of that, I'm sure he will sleep better.

In addition, if this is something you want to work, you will have to let go of the idea that you're being selfish. You are both choosing to have this, so stop that line of thought when it comes up.
 
the last time J visited with us I only spent one hour alone with him. I slept in the same bed with saltandredpepper every night during J's visit. Although J did sleep with us one night. Before he came to visit SRP asked me to choose whether I wanted the relationship with J to be solo or to include him. I wanted to include SRP....

I really don't want to ask SRP to leave or encourage it because it seems selfish and rude to have a visitor in our home that makes him feel jealous, uncertain or insecure.

I love SRP and want our life together to be supporting, loving, and nurturing. We seemed to handle things pretty well when we were all together. I fret that if he goes off by himself he will not sleep.His complex feelings in coping with feelings of jealousy have brought on insomnia before.

I guess I need to let go of that.

Mara

I struggle with feeling selfish in my situation, too. Sometimes I get into the thought cycle of "I already had one man who loves me...and now I have TWO?, some people don't have anyone..." realize that both you and SRP deserve love and happiness, ask SRP what he wants and needs, and compromise (reasonably) so that you both feel loved, nurtured, and respected. Don't feel selfish for loving J and wanting to have time with him, it's a destructive thought pattern. Enjoy your loves. :)
 
I think that there is a few things that can be done here that might help. I agree with whomever posted that making a schedule might work... Even on a weekend together that happens once in a blue moon, until you know each other in this dynamic enough it might help to have alone time scheduled with both men while they are both around. Maybe "nap time" in the after noon is a better way to get closeness and leave "night time" sleeping arrangements for you SRP. This is what PN, mono and I did for a time when he moved in, except for two nights a week when I would sleep with mono. It seemed to mean that our closeness stayed in tact.

Another thing I think is worth noting is that this is new. 10 months is just long enough to be giddy about this relationship, think its running awesomely and then have that die out until it is realized that this is working, but there are no fireworks every moment of the day. That isn't detachment, that is reality... not to mention, independence is a good thing. Being attached is borderlining co-dependent for me.

This is totally workable in time I think... it takes practice all this stuff. So you might have sleepless nights on the occasional weekend. So be it... let yourself feel what you feel, find something to do and learn to walk through it. Its all part of getting used to all that is going on. Most of us here know what it is you are going through, or been on the other side watching... those of us who got through it know its possible to to do so and live to tell the tale. It takes time.

I read this again today somewhere and it took on new meaning for me even though I have read it a thousand times... maybe it will help explain what I mean about how detachment might not be such a bad thing.

http://www.katsandogz.com/onmarriage.html
On Marriage
-Kahlil Gibran

You were born together, and together you shall be forevermore.
You shall be together when the white wings of death scatter your days.
Ay, you shall be together even in the silent memory of God.
But let there be spaces in your togetherness,
And let the winds of the heavens dance between you.


Love one another, but make not a bond of love:
Let it rather be a moving sea between the shores of your souls.
Fill each other's cup but drink not from one cup.
Give one another of your bread but eat not from the same loaf
Sing and dance together and be joyous, but let each one of you be alone,
Even as the strings of a lute are alone though they quiver with the same music.


Give your hearts, but not into each other's keeping.
For only the hand of Life can contain your hearts.
And stand together yet not too near together:
For the pillars of the temple stand apart,
And the oak tree and the cypress grow not in each other's shadow.
 
On Marriage
-Kahlil Gibran

You were born together, and together you shall be forevermore.
You shall be together when the white wings of death scatter your days.
Ay, you shall be together even in the silent memory of God.
But let there be spaces in your togetherness,
And let the winds of the heavens dance between you.


Love one another, but make not a bond of love:
Let it rather be a moving sea between the shores of your souls.
Fill each other's cup but drink not from one cup.
Give one another of your bread but eat not from the same loaf
Sing and dance together and be joyous, but let each one of you be alone,
Even as the strings of a lute are alone though they quiver with the same music.


Give your hearts, but not into each other's keeping.
For only the hand of Life can contain your hearts.
And stand together yet not too near together:
For the pillars of the temple stand apart,
And the oak tree and the cypress grow not in each other's shadow.

I'm so touched by this poem that I've been forced briefly out of my safe lurking cave...thanks redpepper...
I think I'll be ready to post soon :)
 
Yes Redpepper, and I love it that beauty and elegance have entered this thread.

Well Chicks, here's a midstream update. I've floated the idea of my leaving town when the metamour visits and it caused quite a stir for those two - rejection, guilt, anger, accusations, mistrust, doubt - but is starting to settle now. Mara and I are good together again and clearer about our commitment and what we want for our lives and loves together. Admitting my needs has made me less frantic about getting my fair share of the outside love. And surprise, surprise, we've met a young gay poly woman in our little town who we both adore and who's got the hots for Mara. Those winds of heaven are dancing with NRE again...

Saltandredpepper
 
Its only NRE in the sense that there is mutual attraction but not because S and I have been intimate. We have been talking and getting to know one another. Have taken it very slowly because of all that has been going on.
 
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