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Old 09-07-2017, 12:17 PM
Rockit49 Rockit49 is offline
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Join Date: Apr 2017
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Well, what he is asking for is codependency... Or working towards it or worse!
What you need is to stand your ground...
Be you! Free you! Have him Except you ... For everything you are and be what you do/did. Through direct actions of yours or independent of him... It will take time.. We're all different here.

If That can't be tried while still staying at the same home? Then it's probably best to start over separate.. Move out for a bit and start a new with him. To see if he can Except you!?
I'm sorry he's putting you there... That's just too needy of him.

Last edited by Rockit49; 09-07-2017 at 01:31 PM.
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Old 09-07-2017, 01:12 PM
doglover0217 doglover0217 is offline
Join Date: Oct 2016
Posts: 17

Originally Posted by GalaGirl View Post
http://openingup.net/wp-content/uplo...ecklist-OU.pdf could get you started. Then you can print and color. Tweak things at will.

Green is go.

Yellow things -- Proceed with caution. Check in first. Probably fine, but heads up appreciated.

Red things are stop. Needs negotiation or serious talk first. (I would be pretty mad if my spouse decided to make babies with someone else without telling me ahead of time. )
Thank you for this link BTW. Great resource!!!
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Old 09-07-2017, 01:22 PM
GalaGirl GalaGirl is offline
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Join Date: Jun 2012
Posts: 7,220

Glad the link helps some. Hopefully he's willing to have that kind of conversation.

I tried to speak with him last night and he is adamant that having access to my communications is how he is going to build trust in me. I don't understand or see how that is going to address the issue; I asked if we could work together to find an alternative, and he reiterated that this is the consequence for my action.
If that is the ONLY path he will accept? He won't entertain other ways to try to solve this?

You could accept he is this rigid. And you can still say "No, thank you. I will not give you access to my phone."

Then let the chips fall where they may.

If the conversation needs to change to "how to best break up" because you do not see eye-to-eye? Accept you guys are not compatible and have the conversations you need to be having then.

Rather than banging heads on walls because he wants "super joined at the hip" and you do not want that.

I understand that he doesn't trust me. I consistently don't meet his expectations of communication. He wants me to err on the side of oversharing whenever I'm talking to someone (whether they are a potential sexual partner or not) and to be engaged in texting communication throughout the day.
I'll be frank. If it were me? That would suck up too much of my time and energy. It is not my job to reassure him all hours of the day that I'm not doing funny business out there somewhere or that I'm instantly available at the drop of a hat for him and his issues.

I would decline to do that oversharing/texting all day long. I would only offer what I am comfortable giving. If that is not enough for him, it is not enough. He can choose to learn to live with it or choose to dump me.

And if he kept bugging me about it? *I* would dump him because
  • he doesn't trust me
  • we do not have compatible communication style/frequency
  • he's pushy about everything having to his way or about what he wants/needs and my wants/needs go out the window.
  • And instead of accepting that I come as I come, he's trying to turn me into something I am not.

In regard to oversharing, I try to communicate as much as I can with still maintaining boundaries I've tried to set for privacy -- boundaries driven by a desire to be an individual and have some things for myself, rather than everything in my social life entangled with him.
That is a natural desire to want.

Boundaries are for YOU to maintain with consequences YOU do.

If I have a boundary of "I don't lend my things to careless people" and you borrow my lawn mower and break it? Don't apologize and offer to repair/replace? Then you come asking for my vac? I am going to tell you "No. I cannot loan that." Because I have to obey my personal boundary of "I do not loan things to careless people." Tell you "no" when you want my vac is a consequence that *I* can do that keeps me safe from any new shenanigans.

You have a personal boundary of "I want to be an individual. I want to have some things for myself, rather than everything in my social life entangled with him."

When he asks you to entangle all your social life things with him? Asks you to lose your individuality so he can feel happy?

You could obey your boundary. You could say "No, thank you. I will not be doing that." That is a consequence you can do.

He has to find another way to solve his insecure or whatever it is.

If he does not trust you, and he's not willing to engage in trust building, then the consequence HE could do is break up and not date someone he does not trust. Instead, he wants you to allow him to "punish" you by taking away your phone privileges like a kid being grounded.

Do you want that kind of dynamic?

In regard to communicating constantly throughout the day, there are days where I don't want to message at all or am very busy at work, but it's hard for him to not take it personally and think that I'm not engaged because I don't want to talk to him.
Blue is your stuff. Red is his stuff. You could let him attend to his stuff. You attend to yours. That is part of maintaining your individuality. It isn't that you don't care about him, but you cannot be doing all his jobs for him either.

I think in a healthy relationship there's stuff.
  • Your stuff. That is only your stuff to deal with.
  • His stuff. That is only his stuff to deal with.
  • Our stuff. The shared stuff you deal with together.

It cannot ALL be "our stuff."

If you are busy at work and cannot text him all day? Do your work. Do not text.

If he does not get texts? And he chooses to think you are doing funny business rather than thinking you are busy working? And him thinking you are doing funny business upsets him? He's the one upsetting his own self with his thinking. If he acts out at you later, blames, temper tantrums?

You can say "No, thank you. Managing your temper tantrum for you is not my job. When I am at work, they pay me to be working. Not to chit chat with you all day."

He sounds like he wants to be all up in your business -- super enmeshed/codependent/weird/whatever it is.

It sounds like you do not like this much "togetherness" because it feels stifling. So don't do it or encourage it.

If you end up breaking up over it? That's where it ends up then. Because HE is not willing to bend, dial it down some, find alternate solutions, etc.

There is only so much you can do from your end.
You could accept that.

You seem happy to be with him if he could chill out and stop trying to turn you into his other partner, stop being so rigid, and stop trying to run your life for you/get all up in your business. If he needs professional help with this, he could see someone to help him.

If he cannot relax and chill out? Then you could choose to be without him and not deal in this any more.

It sounds draining.


Last edited by GalaGirl; 09-07-2017 at 03:42 PM.
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Old 09-10-2017, 04:13 PM
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kdt26417 kdt26417 is offline
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Location: Yelm, Washington
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Hi doglover0217,

My perception here is that Red is being too intrusive in your life. Access to your phone so he can snoop? Expecting you to text him 24/7? That's too much. The one thing I would say on your part is that you should have been honest with him right away about the person you made out with. But I think you already know that.

I am skeptical about whether you and Red are compatible; a breakup may be in order. But that's your call to make.

Kevin T.
Love means never having to say, "Put down that meat cleaver!"
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Old 09-10-2017, 06:25 PM
Ravenscroft Ravenscroft is offline
Join Date: Oct 2015
Location: NW Minnesota
Posts: 1,724

Hmm. Really open marriage (couple-first) stuff more than polyamory, but not unusual so let's go with it, & do some "poly viewpoint."

In polyamory, you have every right to renegotiate your "privacy boundary."

In polyamory, you have no particular right to impose it on a partner without discussing it or even informing him.

In polyamory, he has no particular right to demand proof of ANYTHING except as you choose to grant him.

Originally Posted by doglover0217 View Post
having access to my communications is how he is going to build trust in me.
No. If someone behaves -- pronounced "does as I tell them" -- because I am pointing a gun at his head, it be sociopathic (at best) for me to claim they're doing it voluntarily, much less from the goodness of their soul.

It fixes NOTHING, & manages to avoid hard stuff like thinking & communication.

When is the actual timeline? You hint that the two of you have had boundary issues already.

Sneaking looks at your account(s) is not dissimilar to roaches & extramarital affairs: generally, if you find one, you can safely assume there's more that are better hidden.

Is "making out" (whatever THAT means) with someone -- without prior approval from him, while you've sent him off to do one-on-one stuff -- your passive-aggressive way of forcing an extant issue that you've avoided discussing?

You are indeed "acting shady."

He is indeed acting controlling.

If his little feelings are hurt because you "made out" with someone while he was getting his weenie polished, then that's up to him to at least pretend to be a mature adult & discuss it openly & directly. If he cannot even masquerade as a grownup, that ought to give you a hint as to how the relationship is failing.

One of you is "checking out" here. Maybe both. IMO, you can save yourself much time / effort / heartache by addressing THAT directly, & either working together to fix it, or putting plans in place to move along.

Overall, sounds a lot like "monogamy +" to me.
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Old 09-30-2017, 06:40 PM
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Magdlyn Magdlyn is offline
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Join Date: Nov 2009
Location: Metro West Massachusetts
Posts: 6,951

I went through something similar with my ex husband. We were living monogamous (I was poly at heart but chose to be mono with him), so it wasn't the exact same scenario. And it centered around "proof of love," not "proof of trustworthiness," but I will share it.

After our 3rd child was born, my husband naturally got less of my attention. We had a 5 year old, a 3 year old, and a newborn infant. He worked full time, I was a full time mother. Our kids were not laid back, they were the needy sort.

So... my ex wanted more of my attention. He started getting all pissy about it. He had a tendency to be passive aggressive to I had to worm out of him what the problem was. Somehow he wanted me to carve out more time in my day to prove I still loved him. He viewed our children as his competitors for my love and attention.

I cared about him. I wanted to do my best to show he mattered to me. So. I kept the kids away from him in the morning, so he could drink coffee and eat breakfast undisturbed, go poop, shower and dress undisturbed. (Meanwhile I wasn't getting showered or dressed yet, I was able to choke down one cup of cooling coffee, I was usually eating my breakfast with at least the nursing baby on my lap, if not also the 3 year old, I was taking a poop with someone leaning on my knee. I was feeding the kids, breaking up their fights, changing diapers and dressing them, etc.)

I also kept the kids busy when he got home from work for about 20 minutes so he could change clothes, use the bathroom and eat his homecooked dinner undisturbed before having to play with them or tend to their needs.

But this wasn't enough for my husband to feel loved. So I asked what else I could do. He said, make me a lunch to bring to work. So I spent some period of time making sure we had sandwich stuff, and in the midst of being swarmed by kids and taking time to nurse a newborn, I made him a sandwich before he left for work.

But this wasn't enough for my husband to feel loved. So I asked what else I could do. He said, make me a cooked lunch, a sandwich feels unsatisfactory. So I spent time making sure to make enough food the night before to make sure there were delicious home cooked leftovers. If there weren't, by his specifications, he required a microbaked potato, some steamed vegetables, covered in some kind of sauce. Ranch dressing was acceptable. So I would prepare one or the other option.

But this wasn't enough for my husband to feel loved. So, I bought a variety of stickers with a love theme, hearts, "I love you's" etc. I put them on the lid of his lunch container.

But this wasn't enough for my husband to feel loved. So I asked what else I could do. He said, give me more sex. So I increased my availability from one night a week (we had family bed by mutual agreement), to making sure I was awake after getting the kids to bed, and able to have sex 3 or 4 nights a week.

But this wasn't enough for my husband to feel loved. I ended up learning, through more years and couples therapy, he would have maybe felt loved if we'd never had kids, and I never looked at or talked to another man, or to a female platonic friend (because I might complain to her about him omg).

It all became clear to me, it came down to his lack of self worth. He had a hole there I never would have been able to fill.

So, there's an underlying lack of trust coming from Red to you. If he's anything like my ex husband, no matter how much you give, it won't be enough. Even if you gave as much as Blue apparently does, I imagine he'd want more from you than Blue gives, given the history around this. Blue apparently wants to be enmeshed and co-depedent. You don't. So you're at an eternal disadvantage.
Love withers under constraint; its very essence is liberty. It is compatible neither with envy, jealousy or fear. It is there most pure, perfect and unlimited when its votaries live in confidence, equality and unreserve. -- Shelley

Mags (poly, F, 63)
Pixi (poly, F, 41) my nesting partner since January 2009
Master, (mono, M, 37), Pixi's bf since April 2013
BigGuy (poly, M, married, 43, dating me since late summer 2018)
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