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  #11  
Old 02-21-2018, 02:06 PM
GalaGirl GalaGirl is offline
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Glad to hear overall there is progress being made.

I don't know if reading about poly hell would help you all avoid further problems or not.

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After it happened I was tossed back and for between them for periods of random lengths. When I was with my dad, he was no longer emotionally there for me. No moral support whatsoever. When I was with my mom, she would party all the time and leave me in unfamiliar houses to party elsewhere. Some of which seemed abandoned. It was a nightmare.
I am sorry you dealt with that. Sounds like when they got divorced they also quit doing the parenting.

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It sounds like divorce isn't always like that, though. I'm just going off of what I know and what I definitely do not want my kids to go through.
Not all divorces are like that. Some divorces are just divorces. And the parents keep on parenting well. If you don't want your children to experience parenting abandonment like that in the event of a divorce? Keep on doing your parentings post divorce.

YOU do not have to parent like your parents did. If for some reason you and wife decide to divorce, YOU don't have to behave like they did post divorce. You can keep up you share of the co-parenting deal rather than disappear on the kids like your parents "disappeared" on you.

That's why I said before -- divorce is about the married people not wanting to be together. Which can happen. But the kids? They need parenting. They don't really need "married."

One couple I know? The ex-wife remarried. Her ex-husband is the godfather to her youngest son with her new husband. They bought next door houses to make the parenting easier for all their assorted children. They all show up to all the kid stuff and do what needs doing on the parenting front.

Another couple I know? Both parents also show up to all their daughter's stuff -- plays, dances, etc. They work together to make the parenting decisions. They have a regular (not random) schedule for shared custody of their kid. While both have moved on to date other people in their romantic lives? They try to be cordial coparents and do all the parenting jobs.They did not get next door houses like the first couple. They did get a house and an apartment in the same school district though. Then the kid doesn't have to change schools and visiting mom's house/dad's house is very short distance. Just a bike ride.

I think GF buying a trailer for herself and the kids to live in would help with the crowdedness. Visit each other all you want -- but with separate homes to retreat to when you need alone/quiet time.

I also think counseling could be good for you so you have extra support while going through this stuff.

Galagirl

Last edited by GalaGirl; 02-21-2018 at 08:15 PM.
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  #12  
Old 02-21-2018, 05:25 PM
powerpuffgrl1969 powerpuffgrl1969 is offline
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It's good that the space situation is being alleviated somewhat. It doesn't matter how well the kids get along NOW; there needs to be plans for each of them to have their own personal "space" at some point. It's very important as they get older.
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  #13  
Old 02-21-2018, 06:57 PM
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kdt26417 kdt26417 is online now
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Hello Lovinghusbandforever,

I am actually optimistic about your situation ... things are getting better, the main thing is just getting a handle on your own emotional state. Taming the jealousy and whatnot. I think you can save this, you did not make a huge mistake. It sounds like your wife is caught up in NRE at this moment. As a result, she is oblivious to your feelings and needs. It would be reasonable for you to point that out to her. More importantly, tell her what you need and don't wait for her to figure it out on her own. Hopefully the NRE will fade, and things will get better.

Sincerely,
Kevin T.
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  #14  
Old 02-22-2018, 06:45 AM
Lovinghusbandforever Lovinghusbandforever is offline
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What a great read! Poly Hell is, to a T, my day to day life. Very informative. Thanks for that link, really.

Yeah, since our kids were born, I've tried to give them all things my parents didn't give me. As well as the good stuff they did actually give. I learned from their mistakes. Your point about not parenting like my folks, I don't really see myself ending up that way. Just super scary seeing people that were my heroes ending up that way. Anything to avoid it, really.

Kevin T-

Thanks for the inspirational and kind words. I really do think you understand where I'm coming from. Its a steady work of progress.

Thanks folks!
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  #15  
Old 02-22-2018, 09:27 AM
lunabunny lunabunny is offline
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One question, Lovinghusbandforever,

In your OP, you call this other woman "our partner" and imply that you are also intimate with both her and your wife, as they are with each other and with you - triad style.

Yet you go on to say you're not "in love" with this woman and don't feel she is with you either. However, the two women have fallen heavily for each other to the point of wanting to "put a (tattooed) ring on it".

So... what exactly IS the emotional, practical and intimate situation between you three NOW, and how do you see that developing in the future?

Do you concede that perhaps the two women may wish to "date" separately to your involvement - i.e. the relationship is developing into more of a V thing, with your wife as the hinge - and can you conceive of a time you may be okay with this?
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Red: M, 52, (soon-to-be) ex-husband, straight
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  #16  
Old 02-22-2018, 06:02 PM
Lovinghusbandforever Lovinghusbandforever is offline
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Our GF has told us that she has issues with men. With her last relationship being as long as it was and having little to no affection most of it, its been difficult for her and I to get closer emotionally. I feel like my body language hasn't helped either. I really would like us to be closer.

The triad is my goal. I couldn't work with us dating separately.

I realized last night, after an argument with my wife, that I need to actively work on my view of this relationship. It needs to be seen as a positive change to this new lifestyle. So far, this morning, its like something clicked in my head and I'm seeing it in a different light. If I can keep this frame of mind, I feel like it would be the correct path choice. It feels good so far.
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  #17  
Old 02-22-2018, 06:56 PM
opalescent opalescent is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Lovinghusbandforever View Post
Our GF has told us that she has issues with men. With her last relationship being as long as it was and having little to no affection most of it, its been difficult for her and I to get closer emotionally. I feel like my body language hasn't helped either. I really would like us to be closer.

The triad is my goal. I couldn't work with us dating separately.

I realized last night, after an argument with my wife, that I need to actively work on my view of this relationship. It needs to be seen as a positive change to this new lifestyle. So far, this morning, its like something clicked in my head and I'm seeing it in a different light. If I can keep this frame of mind, I feel like it would be the correct path choice. It feels good so far.
Lovinghusbandforever,

Stop.

You are heading straight for a well known cliff in non-monogamy, 'the we must date together or our relationship is DOOMED' cliff.

If she has issues with men, then she has issues with you. Sounds like she is tolerating your interest in her for the sake of having a place to live and because she loves your wife. You sound like you are tolerating her because your wife loves her and you want your wife to be happy. This is not healthy for anyone. It will sooner or late explode in your face and everyone will be miserable.

Why not date separately? Why can't you do that? Do you fear losing your wife? Not being enough? Losing masculinity somehow? (All of these are common 'reasons' why.) Contrary to popular belief, dating together does not solve relationship problems, prevent jealousy or reduce insecurity. It can make all those things worse. Read broadly here. You will find couple after couple wanting to date together, meeting someone who may be initially ok with seeing both but a stronger bond develops with one or the other. Then the shit hits the fan, everyone suffers. Sometimes the couple reconnects and goes on. Sometimes they break up. Sometimes the third person gets treated as less than a human being and is dumped with no warning or input. (Go read about unicorns.) Sometimes the third person just wants to be with one of the couple and is actively trying to break them up. There is often a lot of fault, blame, toxic behavior and sheer shitstorms when people try to force a triad.

Do not do this. Consider that your wife loves this woman and wants her in her life. That does not mean you too should love her and be in a romantic relationship with her. If your relationship is strong enough to move this woman and her children in, then it is strong enough for the two of you to date separately. Spoiler - your wife always has the option of leaving you and getting together with her separately. For some reason, trying to prevent this fear from coming true - your wife leaving you for someone else - by dating together does not work. And, if she chooses to stay with you - if you make her choose between her life with you and her children, and this woman, well she might stay but she will likely resent you for the rest of her days.

Also this woman is financially dependent on you and your wife for shelter, food, and other necessities of life for herself and her children. She needs to get along to take care of her children and herself. That makes it impossible for her to truly consent to being with a relationship with you (or your wife) as long as she needs material help. Consciously or unconsciously, she will keep the option open of being with you - if that is the literal cost of sheltering, feeding and caring for herself and her children. She will offer things like she 'has issues with men' as a way to put you off, to stay near your wife. This is not malicious, something she is consciously aware of, nor does it mean her feelings are not real. Just that when there is financial dependence, the ability to consent and to say no openly and clearly, can go out the window.

Get used to the idea of dating separately. Of course you can do it. You don't want to. it makes you uncomfortable and brings up all kinds of fears. Look those things in the face. Get used to being uncomfortable and scared. In the long run, doing that emotional work of figuring out why you don't want to date separately, what you fear, and how to work around and through that, will result in a better relationship with your wife, your kids and with anyone you may connect with romantically, whether that's this woman or someone else.

Just skip this whole common assumption that dating together fixes anything. You will do some much needed work on your own needs, wants and boundaries. Plus you can avoid some of the common fuck ups people do when they try to date someone together for all the wrong reasons.

And maybe, if you give it space and time, a real connection between you and her, you and your wife, and her and your wife, can develop. Triads do happen. But healthy triads do not happen by fiat or by restricting partners. They happen because everyone gave their partners freedom to connect with others, and with each other, in the ways that happen organically.

Or you could do what so many people seem to do and just fling yourselves off the 'date together no matter what' cliff and then act surprised when you hit bottom and it really, really hurts.

Last edited by opalescent; 02-22-2018 at 07:16 PM.
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  #18  
Old 02-22-2018, 09:32 PM
lunabunny lunabunny is offline
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And THAT ^^^ is why I asked the previous question.

THANK YOU, Opalescent, for that very thorough, on-point reply. I'd been getting the feeling that this mind-set of "we must date together/aim for a triad" was where this situation was at, or headed.

Lovinghusbandforever... we are not judging you. Clearly, you are new to this, scared and trying to "salvage" your marriage and family situation, while also trying to help this woman, grow feelings for her and accept the fact that she and your wife are "in love" and you perceive that as a threat to all of the above somehow.

I understand your mindset and hopes from personal experience. My girlfriend Boho used to casually date my boyfriend, Jester. When things ended between them, he and I started to date... then about a year later, she and I got together as well... so we ended up in a "V" type arrangement with me as the hinge.

In short order, however, Boho started pushing for a triad between us three. Not only did this make me feel I was "not enough" for her without Jester as an added bonus/incentive... it also made me question her reasons for wanting to date ME in the first place (i.e. was I just the "bait" to get him back?) I became jealous of over-familiar interactions between them, as I viewed her behaviour with distrust.

After many emotionally torturous months of fraught conversation, tears, jealousy, mistrust, ultimatums etc., I came to understand (as did she!) that Boho's desire for a triad was born more of a fear of being left out, ending up alone, and feeling undesirable after Jester chose to end their relationship. It has been very difficult to heal and sort out the various insecurities we've each experienced alone the way... but we HAVE moved on, relatively successfully, I am pleased to say.

You can navigate your way through this current relationship muddle too, Lovinghusbandforever... if you only heed Opalescent's words of warning. Not only about the relationship/s themselves, but also about the position this other woman is in, in terms of feeling under obligation to both you and your wife.
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Me, Lunabunny: F, 49, heteroflexible hinge in LD poly V
Jester: M, 59, co-primary partner, straight (former FWB with B)
Boho: F, 56, co-primary partner, heteroflexible
Red: M, 52, (soon-to-be) ex-husband, straight
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  #19  
Old 02-22-2018, 09:39 PM
GalaGirl GalaGirl is offline
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Quote:
Our GF has told us that she has issues with men. With her last relationship being as long as it was and having little to no affection most of it, its been difficult for her and I to get closer emotionally. I feel like my body language hasn't helped either. I really would like us to be closer.
Well, right now you are not close. And while you care about her, you are not in love with her.

I suggest you stop sharing sex with her and stop trying to date her. You cannot force a connection where there isn't one even if you wish you were able to be close.

Be ok with it being a "V" thing rather than a "triad" thing. If you don't want to date separately from wife? Don't date then. Wife can date her GF, and you could not date anyone but wife. Your plate is already quite full sorting this out -- adding new dating partners to the mix just adds more load at this time. Later on you can re-evaluate that. But for now? Keep things easier on you.

Quote:
The triad is my goal...
Is that everyone's goal or prefernce?

Is wife more like "put up with triad so I can have access to GF?"

Is GF like "put up with triad to I can have access to wife" or "put up with triad so these people let me live here with my kids and pay my bills?"

Not trying to be mean here... just saying that sometimes people try to bend themselves into pretzels trying to put a good face on things.... until the bending finally starts to hurt or snaps.

I would hate for you to get your hopes up like things are mending if they really actually aren't.

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I realized last night, after an argument with my wife...
What was the argument about?

Galagirl

Last edited by GalaGirl; 02-22-2018 at 10:23 PM.
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  #20  
Old 02-22-2018, 10:26 PM
powerpuffgrl1969 powerpuffgrl1969 is offline
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This is a clusterfuck. Accept that your wife and her girlfriend have a relationship and stay out of it. For who knows what reason, you have taken on supporting someone you knew for a New York minute and it's not working out.
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