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polypus

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Hello everyone I'm Polypus (Darren). I've been married to a poly for 23 years. We have both messed around with a couple in years past and my wife has had a live in boyfriend for awhile. Neither of us has practiced poly (or anything accept monogamy) in over ten years. Now she want's to get back into the lifestyle meeting men. She is going to New Zealand to meet a guy she met on line. I am not sure what to make of this and honestly it scares me a little because this comes at a time when our marriage isn't doing so well. I just want to find out more about polyamory, that is, what are the rules or etiquette suppose to be. Or what is appropriate and what is not. Honestly, I am feeling a bit neglected. I can be bearing my soul to her and her head is down in her phone having a message/text conversation with another guy. Also, I am considering whether to stay monogamist or pursue outside interests of my own.
 
Hi Darren,

Welcome to the forums. It seems like you've actually done a fair bit of poly before. Rules and etiquette focus primarily on consent of all parties involved. Otherwise, poly seems to be practised differently from person to person. I'm sure you and your wife must have had some sort of system going already and we would love to hear about it.

From your post, it seems that the main difference this time round is that you are feeling neglected and that this re-venture into poly is happening at a time when your marriage is not very strong. From this, I wonder if it is insecurity that is driving you to post for help?

I'm sure there are plenty of experienced polyamorists here that can share their experiences and offer practical advice about insecurity, but I wanted to confirm that this is your main issue first before we offer advice on the wrong subject.

The other new issue you mention here is distance. How far is NZ and how often will she see the new boyfriend? Is cost an issue as well?

Finally, what do you feel made you guys stop doing poly 10 years ago and what is driving you and your wife to explore it again? I feel that the reasons 'why' may be important to any advice we give, since you and your wife are actually experienced polyamorists already. With what you guys must have gone through, you're probably in a position to give many of us advice!

Once again, Welcome to the forums, Darren. Look forward to hearing from you again and to your advice if I start running into problems. ;)
 
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Hi Darren, Welcome to the forum! I've only been here a few months and equally new to poly - so I will leave any advice in your situation to the experienced veterans, who generally have some very sound advice and solid info to offer.

As Shaya pointed out - the poly prime directive seems to be "with the knowledge and consent of all involved". Beyond that, there are indeed many variations.

Again, welcome - and good luck on this new leg of your poly journey! Al
 
What's Appropriate?

Sahaya, let me say I think you are insightful, a quality I seem to be lacking at the moment. My wife and I talked very little about the poly lifestyle after her live in boyfriend left. We finally had to ask him to go because he became a deadbeat and depended on us for everything. Anyway, she hit her mid life crisis, our kids are grown up and have left the nest and she felt like she gave everything thing to the family: her time and energy, all her resources basically and now it is her time. She has always put me and the kids first.

One day, out of the blue, she said I want to practice poly again. She said she had met someone online who she has fallen head over heals for and wants to go meet him. He is a big mountain biker so she went and dropped almost $3000 on a bike and more on gear. She bought a plane ticket to New Zealand. We live in Colorado BTW. Yes, it has been a huge financial burden for us. I think she is really trying to be there for me but she is so distracted with him. We barely speak in the evenings. Now I'm in one room and she's in the other messaging her new Beau. This is also different from before where she made an extra effort to make sure she was there for me emotionally.

I did ask her what if I said no. In the past she always said she'd break things off with the others if I got uncomfortable. At the time the circumstances were such that I was comfortable with it. This time is different she said you can always leave. This for guy she hasn't even met yet. That is where my biggest insecurity lies. I'm sure it isn't about him specifically, she is going to practice poly with or without him and with or without me. BTW, I have been supportive, I told her she needed to do what she needed to do. But the truth of the matter is I am feeling hurt. I've always thought that in a poly relationship everyone involved needed to be comfortable with it. Well, I am not. She knows that. I can either come along for the ride or move out.

I guess my first real question is that ultimatum appropriate? Bare in mind she doesn't want me to leave but she is going through with it regardless. In her words "It's my time" and "I want to eat my cake and have it too,” meaning she wants me to stay and still have her boyfriend.
 
Being outed.

My biggest problem however is that none of our other friends or family knew what we were doing. A few years ago she changed jobs and is now working at the same small company I have worked at for the past 20 years. When she told me about the guy and New Zealand I asked her not to tell people at work. She told everyone. She told the kids too. I asked her not to tell her parents. The next day she told her parents. She also told them we are getting divorced because at the time I was contemplating it. I guess I am still in the closet about the whole thing and I am very upset that everyone knows. And that is the biggest reason why I haven't given my full name here. What's different this time? There was some give and take in the past and we made mutual compromises. This time it's all take and no give. But do I have the right to ask her not come out of the closet? Do I have the right not to be outed when I am not ready for it? I just don't know.
 
Greetings Darren,
Welcome to our forum. Please feel free to lurk, browse, etc.

Your complaints are certainly valid, and you have a right to express your needs and wants. It sounds like things have changed a lot for your wife, she is no longer wanting to work with you and in fact is openly defying your wishes (e.g. about being outed). To me it sounds like she wants a divorce, even if she wants you to be the one who files for it. I know that's not happy news, but it's what I gather from your posts so far. I can only imagine how hard it is to invest 23 years into a marriage only to watch it now fall apart. She is basically saying, "My way or the highway," and you're faced with some difficult choices. I hope Polyamory.com can help you with that.

Sincerely,
Kevin T., "official greeter"

Notes:

There's a *lot* of good info in Golden Nuggets. Have a look!

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If you have any questions about the board itself, please private-message a mod and they'll do their best to help.

Welcome aboard!
 
Do I have the right not to be outed when I am not ready for it? I just don't know.

Hi Darren - Welcome to the forum!

IMO - you absolutely should NOT have been outed without your consent. From my perspective, outing someone without their consent is unethical and perhaps even immoral - and certainly an unkind, callous, and unloving thing to thing to do to your partner - and even more so since you had specifically asked her not to discuss it. I haven't seen being involuntarily outed without your consent discussed in the short time that I have been here - although I am sure you could use the search function to find discussion of this topic among the 240K posts archived here.

However, I did hear this discussed on the "Poly Weekly" podcast recently. This a reputable podcast-blog poly site that has been running for a dozen years. The consensus on that podcast was that voluntary outing should only occur at the pace of the most reluctant member. So, if you have a triad - and one of the 3 can't come out - you don't.

After reading your posts - I would have to agree with Kevin - that as painful as it is to walk away from that many years, that might be the best advice. (And my more usual stance in this forum is that folks here recommend divorce or splitting up all too quickly and all too often - but your situation is indeed a tough one.)

I wish you all the best in sorting this out. Al
 
Wow. Just... wow.

As to whether you might be poly... in any case, not a good time to make such decisions. Doesn't matter.

What your wife is doing is NOT polyamory. Nonmonogamy, maybe. If she were poly, she'd have at least some small clue as to when to communicate openly & fully, i.e. with YOU.

Instead, she dictates, & issues "my way or highway" decrees from on high. At best, she is acting in a passive-aggressive manner overall.

Hmm. Maybe not even nonmonogamy. What she is doing sounds a bit like wing-walking, a term derived from a standard entry in "Murphy's Law" collections: "Never leave hold of what you've got until you've got hold of something else."

I coined it to describe how some people claim to be "poly" but are really just serial monogamists too chickensh!t to risk being unattached for even a moment.

Often, they feel they can go haring off chasing one ill-advised fling after another, blithely assuming they're invulnerable because of the ragdoll back home who's forever happy to take them back in, patch up contusions, pay off debts, make excuses, & generally shore them up so they're well-prepared to do it again.

Let me make a few guesses --
  • you consistently put her needs before yours
  • you apologize a lot to "keep the peace"
  • you feel nobody can handle the issues better than you
  • your relationship doesn't seem to ever get better, at least not long-term
  • your life (as an individual) revolves around her
  • you kinda see her as inherently helpless
Okay, so that checklist is swiped from elsewhere. There's all sorts of helpful online stuff about what to do when you find yourself being an enabler in a codependent relationship, & here possibly with a narcissist.

She's given you an ultimatum. So, sit down with her & have a calm quiet conversation: Unless you really do believe that she is either an inveterate liar or a babbling idiot, then you ought to consider taking her at her word, & certainly should tell her you intend such.

First, though, retain an attorney & begin exploring your options. DO NOT tell your wife you have done so until you properly grasp your situation. She might need lots of cash to support this & subsequent flings, so you should explore your options (assuming you have any) in sequestering assets (like access to your 401(k)). At very least, you need to firewall her from being able to put you both in debt for six figures.

Initial consultations will likely cost less than her shiny new bike, & an entire divorce could be accomplished for less than this "vacation" has already cost.
 
Hi Darren,

I'm sorry to hear your full story, but I'm glad we asked for it because what you're describing does not sound like polyamory to me. There are versions of polyamory called "solo-poly" or "relationship anarchy" that I know nothing about, but if we stick to your situation of couplecentric polyamory, it's about consent of all parties involved.

You seem to be saying that you and your wife have had monogamous vows for many years now. Then, your wife started an online affair with someone in a different country without your knowledge, purchased a $3000 bike and expensive return airfares, disclosed polyamory to family/friends/colleagues without your consent and while not expecting you to stay with her, would like you to support her in this or else leave the relationship?

This is a terrible position to be in. You said before that you had underlying relationship problems currently that preceded all this. I personally don't see polyamory as a means to fixing those relationship problems. Sorry to put it bluntly Darren, and I say this with pain in my heart, but it sounds to me like she's given up on the relationship. I don't know what's happened in your relationship before this and would suggest that you don't share the specifics on this forum as your wife, kids or future attorneys can read this.

The following may be things that you are already considering, but I thought to act as a sounding board for your own thoughts. Given how difficult a time this must be for you, sometimes I find it helps when others from an outside situation list the important ones. I hope this list helps:

1. If finances are an issue, I think you need to secure those first. Make sure you have separate bank accounts.

2. Underlying relationship problems. A couples and individual counsellor, if she will agree. I feel your relationship has to come first before polyamory or it will not survive the transition. She will be in polyamoryville once she starts.

3. Couplecentric polyamory may not be possible with so much broken trust and demands of hers without consideration for your needs of security. You may have to transition to a different type of non monogamy, if you can. You've done polyamory before. There was give and take, as you say. This is not the same. What I'm trying to say is, that you may not be able to practice the polyamory you used to practice and may have to consider other forms of consensual non monogamy that have less control (see link on relationship anarchy above).

4. Consider medical diagnoses. Mania or manic depressive comes to mind. The hallmark of mania is increased spending, sexual appetite out of character for the person and/or delusions of grandeur. People with mania tend to spend excessive amounts of time on their passion(s) to the exclusion of all else. They often require less sleep. From what you've written, she seems to have 2 of these but we're obviously unable to diagnose this on a board. If you think she has mania, I would caution against approaching her with this diagnosis. You may need to enlist the help of her close family or friends instead.

5. Other things to consider would be limerence and if she is open to it, perhaps she could browse the limerence forums to find similar stories. My wife thought she might be trying to use jealousy as a control mechanism with most of the dot points I created in that linked thread coming from this article. I disagree with my wife on this as I don't think your wife is deliberately using jealousy to goad you to action. However, if you think this may be the case, then the correct action that your wife wants would be for you to stop her from meeting the boyfriend.

I'll try and keep my post short. Good luck for now.
 
Welcome to the board, polypus. May I suggest you contact a mod to have your thread moved to the Relationships section? The easiest way to do it is to click on the red ! in the top right corner of your original post. Many people don't read the Intros section. You will get more responses to your thread in the other section.

I am sorry you are dealing with a very bad, even hellish situation.

It may not be your wife is bipolar. Often women with a husband and kids give and give for decades and get really burnt out. They can get to a point where, once more freedom is attained, it becomes all about them, and sometimes this can get to a very drastic place. I'd call it burnout, or a mid life crisis of sorts.

An internet boyfriend on the other side of the world? NRE (new relationship energy), infatuation, limerance completely out of control? Neglecting you by constantly texting the bf? Spending thousands on a bike and plane tickets? This is drastic.
 
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