Phase 2 - Dave Continues

Nox

New member
For reasons I don't want to get into, I'm going to start a new thread.

In the last episode, Susan and I were breaking up. She needed to explore some feelings with one of her other men, and wasn't sure she'd be able to fully dedicate even one night a week to me.

We talked and hurt and missed each other, and realized separation isn't what either of us want and figured out a way we can continue and be happy.

So we are back to normal. We are still planning a visit in a couple months.

During the episode I was a wreck. Kay was so wonderful during the whole thing. At one point, nearly crying, I'm texting back and forth with Susan while laying back on Kay's lap. No judgement, no anger, just support. Kay gave me both support and distance as I needed it and not a word of complaint. She's my rock.
 
Atlantis said:
I am still unclear of how and why to let a relationship go. Sometimes it is easy to see, sometimes it is not. Is what I have been experiencing kind of normal? Trying hard to make it work in some cases, not trying in others.

This really hit home with me. I tend to talk about my relationships a lot. I'm excited about them. I want to be able to share them. I love when people are interested in them.

I told a couple of my co-workers about Susan and one was very interested. The other was sort of shocked by the whole thing, but wasn't judgemental. It's just really surprising. He's kind of naive about some things. It was nice to be able to tell them though. Several weeks ago now, when I thought Susan and I were done, I broke down at work, and wasn't able to talk about it. Now I can. Relieves some burden because being a private person is very hard for me.

Unfortunately, one of the side effects is that you typically talk about relationships when something bad happens. People wind up hearing about the bad day and not about the good month. So I've been getting lots of advice that Susan is bad for me and it's an unhealthy relationship.

There's times when I can see it. On Saturday, I spent time with a new girl. She really likes hanging out with me and with whichever group of friends I take her to. She's fun and engaged. That's pretty hard to find someone that fits in everywhere. But it was ultimately unsatisfying because it wasn't Susan. I felt sad and lonely. I did get a few minutes to say good night, and she got upset (feeling responsible for not spending enough time with me) which makes her withdraw. It's one of the few times I've ever needed her and she ran away instead. Of course, I wasn't clear about it. But it's a serious issue. Most of the time I cannot share negative feelings with her or she freaks out. She comes back, and we talk about it, but it breeds resentment.

Most of the time I can't see it. I love having her around. She makes me a better person. The list is so long of what she does for me.

I'm clearly not objective about it though. I asked Stakes and Kay. Stakes doesn't see much negative life spillover. Kay said it's borderline. There are things that come up that are serious issues, but we seem to navigate them ok.

So for now, it's not time to let the relationship go.
 
It was a good weekend. I spend a lot of time with both Kay and Susan independently. It's rare that Kay will go out with my friends and I. This time, though, we went out both Friday and Saturday. We also ran errands together on Sunday.

Susan and I talked quite a bit. We got into a little bit of an altercation, but worked it out pretty quickly. It followed the same pattern as always. I said something potentially negative about the future (what do I do if I meet someone I want to spend a lot of time with) and she freaks out ("I can't be what you or [any of my other men] want me to be!"). This was the first time I think I've ever talked harshly to her, but I had hit kind of a breaking point. Not only do I not want her to change for me, but also I find her independence and strength extremely attractive. I reiterated it, so she could cut the drama portion of the argument. We worked it out. We got to spend some nice time together last night as well.

And the question about what do I do if I meet someone is because it's possible I have. She's always been flaky about me being married, but she says she's more open to it if I'm not spending all my time with Susan now. I'm not sure I trust her at this point. There have been dates made and broken in the past. But I'm beginning to think I might really want someone that I can give more attention to. I mean that's the whole reason I started this journey in the first place.

On potential basis, I may start dating a local woman. I asked her if she'd like to go out and she said sure, but after the holidays. Kay hasn't decided how much relationship she'd be comfortable with yet, but I know that it doesn't really matter. [No nickname chosen] is really fun to hang out with wither it's just friends or otherwise.
 
Susan's tough times continue, but it's making us closer. She had two bad experiences this week. I stayed up with her texting as much as I could. Talked to her on the phone when she could. I skyped her to sleep last night. She's doing really well considering, but I'm glad I'm there to virtually hold her hand. She's allowing herself to need me (or anyone) more than she's ever been comfortable doing. I'm really excited to visit her again in a few weeks.

I did ask hockeygirl out. She asked countered with me joining her and her friends, which I thought was a great idea. However, when the day rolled around I felt really terrible and even went home from work early, so I had to reschedule. There's olympic and playoff hockey in the next few months so we'll have more opportunity. Stakes doesn't like me seeing her. She thinks it's way too dangerous.

My potential woman disappeared again.

Kay is back in school grind, so we aren't spending much time together. I was able to help her with some schoolwork last night so that was nice. I need to plan something for valentine's.

Everything is pretty stable, and I don't have any unanswered relationship questions so I'm pretty happy. I have added a lumberjill into my circle. I think we're friends+. Not exactly benefits, but not exactly casual either.
 
Obviously it has been a while since I've posted, but there's been nothing to say.

Susan and I are good, but it's really a terrible time for her. She's in better place this week, but it will be temporary for a while, and there's no telling how long that would be. Our meeting went well. She was stressed out with work and personal stuff, but I had a great time. I'm not sure the next time I'll go out there. I broached the subject, but she's afraid it will be too stressful. I'd be more upset, but my window is kind of short anyway. I'm really busy now, and it will continue through the summer. We discussed just doing a quick overnight when we miss each other uncontrollably which is probably getting closer than we thought :)

Kay is doing great in college, but it definitely has caused us to spend less time together. She was really sweet last week. I told her I was feeling a little lonely and she put forth extra effort spend time with me even though it was only 10 minutes at a time. I totally understand where she's at and it's going to be good for her individually and our household as well. Could be for our relationship too, as we've had more intellectual discussions since she's been in class than I'm used to as well.

Nothing on anyone else. I haven't been that motivated.
 
Updates!

Susan trusts me more and more. She's become much more vulnerable, and depends on me. Knowing her trust issues makes it a huge responsibility, but one I cherish. She's still stressed out with personal stuff, so I haven't been able to visit, but we have tentative plans to take a vacation together. While we've hinted at it before, she talked specific plans on everything but timing.

One one thing on the Kay front. For the first time ever she put a personal touch on a card for me. She hand made and wrote a wonderful birthday card. She said Stakes "knew about it, but didn't suggest it." I remain curious, but really happy.

Stakes and I are going on a trip together. I worry a bit, but am going to enjoy the weekend. She's a wonderful friend, and I would hate our relationship getting weird. I can only make decisions for myself though. We are very honest with each other, so I trust her judgement.
 
Happy to have an update from you. Hope things continue to go well for you! :)
 
So, one of Susan's troubles is that her local bf of the last decade is dying of cancer. At this point he only has a few days left.

I have offered on two occasions to come spend a few days with her to help her through losing him. Not for us to be together, but so that she has transportation if she needs it, odds and ends taken care of, and someone to hold her when she feels like it. At the same time I'd completely respect her privacy when she wants to grieve alone.

She is non-committal. She would love me there, I'm sure, but it would add stress that she would be obligated to spend time with me. No matter how much I assure her that isn't the case on my end, the time and expense can't be ignored.

I'm not sure what to do. I'm leaning away from not going, as we've already discussed spending time together later this year. I feel this is her decision to make, not mine, regardless of whether she wants me to make it for her.
 
You can only be there in ways that she will allow you to be there. Definitely continue to offer emotional support and even your shoulder from a distance. I am sure you want to be there for her in what sounds like a terribly difficult time. She might very well reach out for you. I hope she will be okay in time. I cannot imagine what she is going through.
 
We are mostly recovered from the psychopath incident. We got some professional confirmation as well, though it was a diagnosis without interview.

Susan's bf did pass about 6 weeks ago. I didn't go out then, but I'm headed to see Susan for a couple weekends both next week and next month. Then she's coming here and we are taking a vacation together. I'm really looking forward to that. We still chat for hours every day.

Kay is doing well. She seems to need cuddling more than usual which I'm appreciative of, but it makes me think something is wrong. She says no. She starts school again pretty soon so it's another 3 months of super busy. We just got back from a great vacation, and we're planning Napa in the spring.

Stakes and I enjoyed our trip. It was too long for me to be away with her, but I really enjoyed the weekend, and I'm glad we did it. She's pretty busy with her own relationships. Other than chats during the day, I haven't seen much of her. Our relationship hasn't gotten weird, so that's good.
 
I'm feeling down the last few days and I'm not sure why. Part of it was that I came down with a sinus infection 10 days ago and it's still hanging around. I've been improving for 7 of them so didn't go get antibiotics. It's almost run it's course but that could be putting me in a bad mood.

Partially related is that none of my lovers have been spending much time with me. Kay has dived back into school. Stakes is trying to manage two new ones (along with NRE issues), as well as deal with some from the past. Susan just hasn't wanted to spend any time together. All have been talking a good game, but when I've been available, they haven't been and it's wearing on me. None of it's logical, but then emotion isn't.

I'm headed out to see Susan on Friday. You'd think that would have so excited I couldn't think straight. Sometimes I'm just needy I guess.
 
That was a fantastic weekend. That's the first time that Susan and I have had an uninterrupted stay together. Previously I've stayed at a hotel, and she'll go home for a while to take care of house stuff. Then we meet up later. This time I stayed with her and so we were together the whole time. It was smooth and easy and fun. I met her best friend. We went to dinner and went shopping. We watched one of her favorite movies. Absolutely wonderful. I'm excited to head back.

Kay was good. She said she got little pangs when she'd wake up in the morning and I wasn't there, but nothing different than when I'm on a business trip. The three of us are going to have dinner when Susan comes in November.

Stakes is going through a tough time. I'm going to help her through it as best I can.
 
Something I didn't mention, and it came up today, I told my parents I have a girlfriend. It scared my dad. He thinks Kay will change her mind and run off with the kids. That makes me wonder how much actual time and effort he has spent getting to know my wife. It's far, far more likely she'd run off and leave me with the kids. In any case, neither would happen.

My mom took it as a personal attack on her and refused to talk about it. Days later, she sent me a rambling email with questions for me not to answer. I answered them anyway, but sent it to my dad to give to her over time.

I think they both plan on ignoring it.

Next up will be the kids. I'm going to be seeing Susan more and I want to be able to tell them, "I'm going to see my friend, Susan." I don't need to elaborate, but when they find out (and kids are smarter than they are given credit for), I don't want it to be a complete shock or look like I was hiding anything.
 
Things just can't stay stable. Susan is starting to date. I'm happy for her, but scared of what that will do to us. It was just coffee yesterday, but he asked her out again and they've been texting for a while. It won't change my visit at the end of the month, but November is a long way off. Even if we go (which I would expect), I'm not excited about a our first vacation dealing with NRE.

And yes, I get it. It was just a coffee and maybe not even a real first date. But if you are attractive, can hold a conversation, and treat her like a princess, she's going to be interested. I've yet to see her push anyone away. I don't know how long it takes her to get serious about someone though.

I really don't know anything about dating. My last real date was 20 years ago. I certainly don't know what it's like for mature adults. I hate going into this stuff blind :(
 
This has been an interesting week. I was struggling a bit. I'm not sure why I was down. I'm sure it was a combination of Susan dating, Stakes got into some legal trouble, some frustration with other relationships, some home stress (wife in school leaves very little free time), and work has been very busy as well.

I decided to donate to Stake's legal fund. She really needs a break. She's just now back on her feet and losing her job and/or apartment would be absolutely awful. Could set her back years if not permanently. I really hope she can get through this.

The karma must have been good since I did really well at poker that night.

When I got home I skyped with Susan and it was really nice. We cleared up a silly issue from earlier in the week. We talked about dating. She said that even though she's dated a few guys long term, there were only two she was really crazy about. She also talked about how she has no intention on giving up the men she cares about even to a new boyfriend. She just wants someone local. It's much more fun than long distance relationships, which kinda goes without saying. I felt much more secure afterward though. She's not trying to replace us, just to complement us.

We chatted today and was so excited that I made some plans and reservations for next time I see her. I really do make her happy and she's wonderful about letting me know. I need to trust our relationships more.

Kay is turning 40 tomorrow. I've lined up a nice party for her on Sunday. She's going to be really happy with the guest list.
 
Susan's date went well for the most part. Positives are they laughed and talked for hours. He has a lot of characteristics she likes. There is a definite chemistry there. On the other hand, he still has a live in girlfriend (that he's saying is over... BS ALERT... if it's over it's over), but he wants to have sex with Susan immediately and has dropped little teasing comments that are intended to shame her into it ("apparently you didn't have a good enough time"). Susan has a guideline, though, that she won't have sex with you if you have a live in. Obviously it's a guideline though, and not a rule. This leads to issues though.

1) She wants to have sex with him and she hates condoms; ergo she'll fluid bond. Which means we can't be fluid bonded any more, and therefore no more PIV sex.

2) She's very worried that he only kinda likes her, but really just wants to have sex with her. I do understand his point of view. Susan is the sexiest woman I have ever met. Granted, she pushes all the right buttons for me, but she oozes sex appeal.

3) I'm so nervous and torn. I want her to be happy, but I'm concerned both for her not to get hurt and how it will affect her and I. I am still going there next weekend, and she still wants to go to New Orleans.

I'm not sleeping well, but I'm sure the whole situation will take care of itself. It has every other time in the past two years.
 
Something about me is that I like to know what's going on. I like to have a frame of reference to be able to understand other people. I do it at work, home, and just in normal discussions.

So one thing that has stuck out with Susan is I don't know what it's like to date. I don't know how fast things go. I don't know how they change. I don't know the stresses. I decided I need to find out. That made me sign up on OkCupid. I haven't had the discussion with Kay yet, but I don't think it will bother her. I mentioned this morning that I needed to tell her something, but she was too stressed out for a discussion. If it bothers her I can always let it lapse.
 
Kay was pleased, and was kind of interested. Her only trepidation with Susan is that I'm gone for a number days. Someone local would fix that.
 
Well, that was a sucky night.

Yesterday, I wrote this poem for Susan.
Dancing beneath the stars with you,
Thrills my throbbing heart.
My skin delights at your sweet soft touch,
Breathing you; such a way to start.

Tingles flow down my body,
your face, your eyes, your smile.
I want to drink you in,
You fill my soul, let's spend a while.

Moonlight shining in your hair,
The sparkle of your eyes,
Your soft lips pressed to mine,
We've shed any of our disguise.

You so bare before me,
Your heart and soul and mind.
Mine to cherish completely,
A treasure of most precious kind.

We step so lightly together,
And give you a little twirl.
Chasing cars around our heads,
Just to forget the world.

------


I sent it to both her email (which she never goes without checking) and to a thing like facebook on our chat site. I know she checked the latter because she left a note on one of my other posts done within a few seconds.

So, when I saw her online, the first thing she mentioned was a stalker woman (I'm not sure if she saw the irony.. the only reason she cares is this woman was with Daley), the second was a text from the new guy she was seeing which was over the top and cheesy, "..and you mean the world to me." Please. They've been on one date and he's got a live in girlfriend.

No mention of the poem. Ok fine, so I mention it hurt my feelings and she freaks out and leaves.

I haven't done anything but text or email her for a week. Maybe longer. I'm lonely and I miss her to pieces, and I get that. She HAS been working 12-16 hour days for a couple weeks now, so I get that, but I can't get 5 minutes of phone time?

Instead I get to hear about a new bf and made to feel unappreciated and it's my fault.

bah.

She texted an apology later, but I don't know if she means it. I don't think she understands why I was hurt. I don't think she knows how lonely I feel. I don't really think she cares. She wants to me to make her feel wonderful and never tell her anything bad. That's great when she makes me feel appreciated, but that's been in short supply lately.
 
Argh! Lost a whole post.

Short version:
Susan and bf went out. In the limited time we talked, she decided to give me a detail that at the time I was not secure enough to handle without context. I remarked. She got "furious." We talked it over the next day. She cannot deal with my criticism; warranted or not.

So, I'm going to have to back away. I love her dearly. I want to be with her, but she is not all-in with me. She said adding another visit between this Friday and our November vacation would stress her out. So be it. She claims not to need space, but her actions say differently.

I'm going to continue to try OK Cupid for a while. Be more open with my friends, and see what I can find locally. Stakes is brilliant. My first messages went unanswered for days. She told me to simply them down and I got 4 in one day. I'm not expecting anything to come out of it, but the exploration is lots of fun in itself.
 
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