what is "in the closet" ?

why use one word ?

why say you are poly anything as a single explain everything, ... that now the rest of the world has to learn about, adapt to, learn what the word means, and get some clear idea so they can see how it's different from the multitude of other words.

why use one new word to define your everything in a world where people may not even be interested in wanting to know because of what that word is associated with and how that association already has a predefined meaning in their head

if you are commited to more than 1, there is polygamy
except polygamy has 2 problems, no one wants to accept it's not religious, so they promote that continued myth, and depending on what part of the world your background is from, people will relate polygamy to a particular religeon (mormon or muslim) and think that explains what polygamy is.

that's not polygamy (not technically), but it's the media influence and people perpetuating ignorance about it, no one is interested in educating themselves or others, ... well not no one, i've been argued at rather severly when i try to inform people it's different from what they want to imagine, ... oddly those outside the poly community seem more keen on listening, those in the poly community are the most bitter and stubborn about it, ... wait, little exception on polygamy, the most bitter are the women who have escaped abusive patriarchal husbands/families that practice polygamy, (these are also the only people that have every right to be bitter about it)

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so you want to say you are commited and have recreational sex, ... but you want 1 word, a new word, a created word combining latin, greek, & english in some new way and new manner to come up with something that uniquely defines your 'youness'

if you have multiple primary partners, ... depending on expectation of how long you want these to last, long term or short term (but they are still primaries to you), polygamy seems the accepted long term, polyamory (at it's meaning - different from the practice) is the accepted short term

you have recreational sex on the side, (while i'm not too familiar with the deep workings of this, it's just my understanding of someone outside looking in), "swinger"

so you are polygamous/polyamorous and a swinger

why do you need one word ?

each one describes a particular aspect of your life, ... and if your life changes in any way, you can change the affected term to something that is more accurate and descriptive to your new outlook

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people outside of polyamory already have given poly rigid meaning, we're cheaters, we're people who sleep around, we're people who don't have deep commited feelings for those in our lives.

the strangest part, within the poly community, no one cares that this is what poly is turning into, we (inside) are arguing for acceptance of differences of relationship orientation, and arguing the acceptace for these differences within the community, ... and doing nothing to help those outside the community change their views.

those outside the community, (like the same path i learned) there's a multitude of terms, there's a multitude of meanings, there's a multitude of differences, ... do you know what's easier ???

it's easier to one day wake up say "screw it, one meaning, they sleep around", and at the heart of it, no matter the dynamic, that's true on some level, ... if we have 2 partners, if we have 20 regular partners and no casual encounters outside of that, we sleep around, ... we sleep with more than one person, so we sleep around,

that person outside, instead of commit themselves to a collage level course in the intensity of study required to learn all the terms and dynamics, is going to simplify it and say "ah ha, finally i get it"

and those people inside the community are so busy coming up with new words and terms and meanings and defending themselves against those who are sick of how this is slowly turning into "free love" haven't spent time correcting the public because the public doesn't care to know.

it goes back to you can call yourself whatever you want, want to be known as something special and unique to say how grand you are and all you do, and that person outside doesn't give a damn in the slightest, they care about one thing "where do i fit into this"

and while the person outside is wondering "where do i fit into this?" you're busy arguing your need to be accepted among others who are similar to you, so you can be recognized at how special you are by some new twist on some new term you came up with to describe exactly how it fits you, and so that others will respect it.

soooo, ... "just saying"

you want to get busy finding some word that best fits a multitude of different things together, ... did you spend a moment realizing what you are asking ?

"vegitables" does not describe potatoes different from carrots, different from cucumbers, different from ... it's a vague term that boils down to parents arguing with their kids 'eat your vegitables!"

when writing a grocery list, we don't add "vegitables" as "this is exactly what i want & need to get from the grocery store" and we don't create new words to say "i need to get HALICUALUDAM" to mean potatoes, onions, carrots, celery. we simply say what we need to get, and we are specific about it. ... the only exceptions are if we are after something more specific, "red onions" because they are different from green onions, and different from shallots, and different from white onions, or sweet onions, ... different flavors, almost as vastly different as carrots are from potatoes, yet russet potatoes are different from yellow potatoes, different from sweet potatoes or yams.

and for certain we don't say halicualudam, nor do we write down vegitables and expect our spouse (or whoever is getting groceries if it's not us) to understand what we are getting.

so our grocery list will say carrots & potatoes & celery, and may omit onions because we already have several at home.

and you want to say you need a particular word for primary + recreational sex ???

your kids don't have to like mushrooms, but they know exactly what a mushroom is, even if they don't know there are dozens of different varieties.

---

why can't you say you are polyamorous and a swinger ?

people can think "oh poly, he/she sleeps around", but then they have that moment of "wait, if poly = swinger, why say both as if they are separate, unique and different?"

so you're poly, it means so many different things it might as well just be 4 random but pronoucable letters, and anyone you tell, you also have to give a whole story about what it means to you in your practice of it.

but if you said polygamy and swinger, ... you can say it's not religious, and they either have a curiosity to want to know "wait, i thought i knew what that meant, i guess i was wrong, so tell me what it means" or they walk away.

and at no point did you give a vague description of yourself, you said accurately, concisely, with words that they already understood (or 90% they understood)

do you really need a word to say it all that you also have to describe it's meaning, or is there something wrong with using words they already understand, even if you have to use 2 ???
 
if you are strait or gay/lesbian, what's wrong with polygyny or polyandry, they may not be common, but they say that aspect 100% "commited to X gender"

if bisexual, well, that needs something, especially when about 2/3 of the population are comfortable from one extent or another in an interest in both sexes, they may have their preferences, but are not turned off by either
 
Re (from Flear):
"Why do you need one word?"

I don't. Was merely curious as to whether there was one word. "Polygamous/polyamorous and a swinger" works fine as far as I am concerned.

Re:
"People outside of polyamory already have given poly rigid meaning, we're cheaters, we're people who sleep around, we're people who don't have deep committed feelings for those in our lives."

I get the impression that you are conflating those things, e.g., People who don't have deep committed feelings for those in their lives are (by definition) cheaters who sleep around. So again I ask you, do you believe a person can truly love another person without having those deep committed feelings?

I actually tend to think that people outside of polyamory usually haven't even heard of the word, and of the few who have, some have done a little research (e.g. a glance at Wiktionary) to find out what it's supposed to mean, some have picked up this or that misconception about it (e.g. from some show or article), and some simply know it's a word but have no idea what it means. I don't feel that the fate of the word is sealed already, though I realize we're not in agreement on that point.

By the way, Wiktionary defines "polyamory" as, "Any of various practices involving romantic or sexual relationships with multiple partners with the knowledge and consent of all involved." Not exactly how I think most Polyamory.com members would define it, but a good example of polyamory being a broad (rather than narrow) category.

Re:
"The strangest part, within the poly community, no one cares that this is what poly is turning into, we (inside) are arguing for acceptance of differences of relationship orientation, and arguing the acceptace for these differences within the community ... and doing nothing to help those outside the community change their views."

Does it matter what the poly community does with the word polyamory if that word is already fit only for disposal into a trash bin? I thought your position was that the word's goose is already cooked, and that it's time for us to use polygamy (to describe relationships with deep committed feelings) instead. Have I misunderstood?

Re: sleeping around ... Wiktionary defines "sleep around" as, "To have numerous sexual partners." It doesn't say whether these sexual partners have romantic feelings for each other, let alone deep committed feelings. I must say, though, the connotation of sleeping around is that it is done deceitfully, without informing all the sexual partners of each other (let alone getting their consent). Are you using that connotation, or are you sticking to the shorter, more generalized definition?

Re:
"If we have two partners, if we have 20 regular partners and no casual encounters outside of that, we sleep around ... We sleep with more than one person, so we sleep around."

In that explanation, sleeping around seems to have all-around consent, and possibly deep committed feelings as well.

Re: the word vegetables ... is not useful for writing up a grocery list, I will certainly grant you that. Yet the the word "vegetables" is in the English language and is often used. For example, when you get to the store, you might ask an employee where the vegetable section is, or maybe you could even look for a sign that said "Vegetables," to direct you to the right area. Your doctor might use the word to say, "I'd like you to eat more vegetables." I'm sure we could both think of other examples. So no, "polyamory" is not a useful word for describing my exact arrangement in life, it is only a broad category that I can use to fraternize and philosophize with other people who have an interest in poly relationships.

Re (from Flear):
"What's wrong with polygyny or polyandry?"

What's "wrong" -- for me -- is that both words denote legal marriage to multiple persons. That's not something you can do in the United States. I realize some people like to loosen the concept of marriage to include handfasting and commitment ceremonies, but I personally prefer the word polyfidelity (poly-fi for short) because it denotes a marriage-like relationship without suggesting there's a legal marriage between more than two persons.

You ask me what's wrong with polygyny or polyandry. I ask you what's wrong with polyfidelity, as I don't feel satisfied with your answer so far. It was something on the order of, Anything with a poly prefix is a lost cause, which makes no sense because polygamy, polygyny, and polyandry all have that same poly prefix. I guess you could argue that polyfidelity's no good because it isn't well enough known, doesn't have enough history, and isn't well enough established. Yet it's the best-fitted tool for the job.

It's established enough to have a Wiktionary entry: "A form of polyamory where all members are considered equal partners and agree to be sexually active only with other members of the group." I might personally tweak the wording on that definition, but my point is it does appear on what is arguably the most often used online dictionary there is.

Not that I mind if others prefer the words polygamy, polygyny, or polyandry (and sometimes group marriage -- or line marriage -- is even used), and I can certainly converse with them using those terms and understanding their context. I just have my particular preferences if others don't object.
 
I prefer the word polyfidelity myself, over polyandry. It just seems easier for people who aren't versed in the community to understand. Meaning, the word seems easier to break into two parts and grasp what the user is getting at, whereas to a regular joe, -andry may not be an immediately recognizable suffix.

That said, one of my ex boyfriends told me he wanted polyfidelity, but he did not use the word as I did. To me, it meant a family style of poly with no hierarchy, where there is no sex outside of the group. To him, it just meant no other partners. It wasn't until 3 months into the relationship that I realized that he was never interested in a cohabitation arrangement, which had been my goal/outlook/what have you., and that there was very much a couple-privilege dynamic present in his poly flavor.
 
people outside of polyamory already have given poly rigid meaning, we're cheaters, we're people who sleep around, we're people who don't have deep commited feelings for those in our lives.

See, this is something that you do say, and have said a number of times, that seems to be a premise for the argument that we don't need the word "polyamory" because other words already suffice. But, I, personally have never met anyone who thought that. They either had no idea what poly was or had an understanding that was closer to "open relationship" - which is a good enough starting point for me. Also, I guess I really don't care what other people think about poly - the only people who matter are the ones I am in a relationship or potential relationship with - and we would have had MUCH deeper discussions before we ever got to that point.

I choose to use the word polyamory because it fits the nuances of who I am good enough to have a conversation about it. "Open" to me means that you are actively seeking new relationships (I'm not - although I have in the past). "Polygamy" - aside from the historical context which is problematic - to me means that you are married to more than one (I'm not, that would be illegal). "Swinger" to me means recreational sex within the confines of a "lifestyle" that I have never encountered and have no interest in. "FWBs" is one of the relationships that I may have with someone, but my relationships don't have to fit into that box.

I was OK being bisexual before I knew there was a word for it, and I was OK being poly before the word was invented. If the words go away that won't change how I conduct my life and my loves in the slightest. I can always go back to the "long version": "I do not participate in exclusive relationships. My husband, my long-term boyfriend and I live together as a family. We do not actively seek other partners, but are open to other relationships if they occur, and those relationships are not limited in how or how far they can grow."

Poly gives me a shorthand word to use to find others like myself to have interesting conversations with - the "noise to sound" ratio is much more favorable if I google "polyamory" than if I google any of the other terms...so for me it has a practical value. If you don't like it then don't use it. "Ethical non-monogamy" which includes all of those other terms - is a big enough umbrella for me. If someone wants to know what my version of that looks like - they can ask. Even such a well-understood word as "marriage" carries so much baggage and interpretation that each example really has to be explained to be understood...
 
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I'm trying to analyze my aversion to using "polygamy" or "polyandry" - in the sense of "marriage-like" without bringing the legal aspect into it. I think that the historical aspect has a lot to do with it. But also it seems to mean a "hub-and-spoke" type configuration - one central person with more that one spouse - husband with multiply wives (who are not involved with one another) OR wife with multiple husbands (who are not involved with one another).

Right now - polyandry could fit - I have two long-term primary-type relationships and we all live together, but the boys are not "married" to each other (although you might think so if you heard them bicker :p). If our relationship(s) with Lotus evolve though - "polygamy", just doesn't seem to fit - I could see myself being married to her but NOT her husband, the boys don't have relationships with each other but we all have relationships with her. Polyamory just fits alot better without all of the historical baggage.
 
Yes, I do believe polygamy has historical baggage that hobbles it significantly -- not to mention the hub/spoke connotation you spoke of.

I'm thinking a marriage-like group with multiple wives *and* multiple husbands is sometimes called a "group marriage" ... and I am almost down with that, if it weren't for the legal connotations the word "marriage" carries. I think "polyfidelity" does a good job of saying "marriage-*like*" without saying "marriage *per se.*"

I am interested to hear more of Flear's input if he would still like to share.
 
"polyfidelity" is one i would say is an improvement over the several that have similar meanings to each other and this one.

it doesn't take much at all for anyone to see exactly what this word means even without any deep understanding of the poly community or it's ins & outs

it also avoids the negative & religious connotations associated with the various other older terms (polygamy & polyandry/polygyny, and even it's newer "group marriage" term)

like much of the mono world, marriage is becoming more of a piece of paper for the couples that want that final commitment, as some have been together for years upon years and are just as committed to each other as the couple that did get the legally binding paper (marriage certificate)

as for the legal issues concerning marriage in the poly world, ... just waiting for the time to pass when bigamy is no longer illegal, i'm not sure why this was brought up as an issue, ... oh well, that's bound to happen as well in the coming years

Edit:
even variations on polygamy, such as "secular polygamy", ... and then you get to see polygamy doing the same thing polyamory is doing, creating new terms

regardless i still think polyfidelity is an improvement for both worlds
 
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I agree, Flear. Someday it will be legal for polyfidelitous adults to marry each other (in groups of more than two). When that happens, we will probably start hearing the words polygamy, polygyny, polyandry ... and possibly even group marriage ... more often.

Change is sometimes a scary thing and brings with it certain risks and growing pains. But I think it is a good thing for our society to (gradually) become more open-minded about how people can relate to each other, and what kind of family units they can form.
 
there's a couple places in the world triads & V's have found the closest the laws will allow to marriage and it's become public, ... one was a V (i think it was a V), one man and 2 women, ... i think that one was australia, not sure

the triad was 3 women, i think in sweden
 
I think I remember hearing about at least one of those instances. A couple of countries (in Europe?) have started to make room for these kinds of families. Seems like a guy was able to marry two women a few years ago. Was it in Denmark? If anyone has a better memory than me, help me out with the details.
 
Not sure if you're confusing it with the precedent case of a FMF civil union in Brazil?

I haven't heard anything like that from Europe, yet... but I may just have missed it. Anyway, fat chance of it happening over here in Germany in the near future... I don't think our majority party, Merkel's Christian Democrats (let alone their Bavarian regional sister party, the Christian Social Union... archconservative hardheads whom I personally despise) will stand for it. And with the left half of our political spectrum still as divided and internally opposed to each other as it has been for almost a decade now, Merkel easily and to noone's real surprise got reelected in the semi-recent election; I don't see the CDU losing its claim to chancellory in the next election, either. Probably with a four year older "Mama Merkel" still at the helm. *sigh*
 
I do remember hearing about an FMF union in Brazil. Seems like I heard of another one a few years ago in Europe too. Might have been in the Netherlands? I can't remember for sure.

Sounds like Germany's languishing under a conservative hand right now. D'oh.
 
most places are conservative :(
those in power, it's what they are familiar with, and they don't want to upset what they are familiar with.

yes, the FMF thing i heard was brazil, not australia, thanks for the clarification :)
 
Someday things'll get more progressive ... Someday ...
 
i was surprised to hear an australian judge pretty much legalize incest.

i thought polygamy would be legalized first

i am sure in time things will reach a better state of acceptance in all things & all relationship types, ... till then, here's hope :)

there is never a wrong way to love, unless it involves fear (the source of all kinds of disapproval regardless of the imagined justification)
 
Sounds like Germany's languishing under a conservative hand right now. D'oh.
Yeah... if you're like me and consider all parties to the right of the Greens as outright unvoteable (;)), you're in for a lot of patience here in the current sitch. Merkel doesn't seem to be going anywhere soon.

Well, at least we have Greens and Socialists/Leftists with seats in our national parliament (Bundestag) at all, to represent a minority opinion. Multi-party coalition systems have their pros and cons, aye? *sigh*
 
Here in the States, you'll rarely get a Libertarian or Green Party member in office, but mostly it's just Republicans and Democrats. [shrug]

@ Flear ... incest as in, brother-sister (of at least the age of consent) I take it? and if so, are they required to use birth control due to the risk of birth defects? I'm just curious.

Re:
"There is never a wrong way to love, unless it involves fear."

Amen.
 
i have no idea about how far things are and are not allowed, age of concent obviously, but i think that's about it.

it was a court case involving brother & sister
 
Interesting. Also I agree I'd expect SSM and poly marriage to precede that ruling, but they say reality is stranger than fiction.
 
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