Empowerment

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I think one of the huge benefits of poly is that through the loss of control, we all dig in to ourselves, develop coping skills, and end up personally empowered.

Can it go the other way?

Can we set up the value of "empowerment" and have it help us through the tough times?

Typical poly situation:

Albert is insecure about Beth meeting Carlos.

Albert asks for Beth to not sleep with Carlos.

BEth draws on empowerment: "I need that to be my choice,
Or I'm going to feel controlled. And it disempowers both me and Carlos. I see you need help, here, though. How can we empower you to best get through this? I'm willing to adjust timing if I can see it will make you stronger and more resilient, and if it doesn't take away from my relationship with Carlos, but not if it ultimately weakens any of the three of us. Do you need reassurance? To talk about worries? An ear to listen when you provide strategies? What can we do to make this a growth experience or a positive experience for you?"

How well do you think that would work?
 
Spin-off- is increasing personal empowerment the antidote to being jealous? Things like knowing you can cope, knowing you can and for and have your needs met in a relationship- and meet them outside of a relationship of not possible inside? Knowing because you are empowered, and value others' empowerment, you don't need to have the illusion of possession to be secure?
 
Second spin-off:

What would our relationships look like if we valued empowerment as a measure of health, rather than closeness?
 
My own idea of empowerment requires each person to own their emotions, and do self work in the managing of them. They can ask for help, but must be prepared to ask themselves the tough questions and get to the root of their issues, so that they're not just throwing a pointless hissy fit in the general direction of their partner and demanding that partner make them stop feeling icky feels.

So. I have a feeling I don't like. Let us say for example, jealousy over a partner's other partner. Some say you communicate every issue immediately, I do not agree and I don't do that. I need time to process. To chew on my ideas and feelings, so that I have a clear understanding of my problem and sensible approaches to solving, and can ask for the right kind of help from a partner in my life. I might blog, or journal, or call my Mom if I need a sounding board to work through my stuff.

Once I've eliminated unrelated causes of icky feelings such as bodily self-neglect (food, sleep, stress) and hormones, etc., if I have found that I do have a reason for my icky feelings, and work out what it is, then I troubleshoot in my brain. This is my empowerment...the full system check I do on myself.

I might think:
"What instance caused the icky feeling? Remove variable #1 from equation, would icky feeling still present? Now put variable #1 back and remove variable #2. Result?" Like troubleshooting a machine by swapping out cables and components until you find the problem part.

Truly, I don't feel that "jealousy" itself is a legit thing. It's an easy label for either a complex combination, or a denial of what the real issue is. Underneath it could be personal insecurity or feelings of low self worth or inadequacy. A fear of change and desire for control. A scarcity of time or attention. An interpretation of an interaction. A sense of competition from the meta or hostility from them. So, any number of things might be lurking. If we just slap the label of "jealousy" on there and do no digging, we aren't being very empowered, in my opinion.

I do not feel that empowerment necessarily means, "I'll do whatever I want and your feelings about it will be disregarded/rejected if they infringe upon my freedom."
 
LOL no problem...I'm a fast typist and tend to go on and on a bit. Not good at brevity.

This has been a hot issue in my life. I've known people who had a great deal of trouble accepting personal accountability for stuff, whether it's a bad experience, a mistake, a situation not to their liking, troublesome emotions, etc. I think it's common in our culture to look externally to place fault for things. And too common where if someone is forced to acknowledge that they had a part in the making of their problems, then they just beat themselves up over it.

I find it far more productive to accept accountability or even demand it whenever I can, not to beat myself up about it, but to then empower myself to change what I'm doing going forward, so that my outcome might be more to my liking. To try and really learn from my mistakes, and forgive myself for making them. But there are people (one in particular) in my life who struggle with this, and I can't seem to get it through to them...and I can only feel sorry for them, because they let life beat them up and toss them around and refuse to take the wheel.

Ultimately in relationships, there has to be a negotiation. Sometimes people do reach a point where Partner A feels a very strong need to do something, and Partner B is equally strong on not being able to live with it, and it's at that extreme point where the relationship might have to end. Those people just have to decide what is worth what to them...where the stronger need exists, and compromise or walk away from the bargaining table.
 
Nice elaboration, Spork. Triggered some of my maxims as well.

Recurringly -- not THIS thread, btw -- I get the impression that most errant polyfolk expect that -- once the Poly Enlightenment flashes & all their possibilities of stupidity are forever washed away -- everything OUGHT to be "hearts & chocolate," & that rough spots are aberrant, indicating some form of failure (& perhaps that there is evil afoot).

Well... nonsense (to be polite :D).

Some days suck. Most days don't suck -- but that doesn't mean they're noticeably incredible, either.

A relationship is NOT a string of rare gems, but a complex tapestry with a few shiny points here & there to make it interesting... not to mention some ugly stains, burned spots, & a bit of horseshit. ;)

I like how you describe Beth's process. But they ALL need to be able to "be the Adult" in that manner, in order to help ford each other's blindspots & weaknesses. (One major problem for so many people is fear of making "I" statements because they believe "it's bad to be egocentric" & similar nonsense.)

The point is NOT to choose the nice safe bland boring EASY road with few/no rough patches, because it's off in the wildness that magic happens. Instead, you learn to lend each other a hand -- which is sometimes rejected, & that sucks because they're saying "no I'd rather fall" or "no I'd rather stay here & die" & you get to decide whether to die with them or move ahead.

As you gain experience & skill, fewer & fewer rough patches even get your attention. Soon enough, you're willing to consider challenges that not-so-long-ago woulda had you cowering in a dark corner.
 
I'll probably get lynched for this, but I believe my (our) emotions can be caused by external circumstances and by the acts of others.
 
I'd have to differentiate between
  • my emotions
  • the roots in my past that result in my emotions
  • my emotion-caused reactions
  • the responsibility I have to deal with my reactions
& there's probably other points.

Though it's become a cliche, I'm not comfy with "nobody has the power to 'make' me anything." Plenty of people have demonstrated the ability to push my metaphoric buttons & get a negative reaction from me.

...& then I have a responsibility to figure out WTF so that I can defuse that trap.
 
Some things people do genuinely cause us harm and our negative emotions are hopefully protective against us allowing that to happen. It's the working out for you what's genuinely harmful and what is stuff you'd actually like to be ok with.
 
I do think people can cause us to have negative emotions.

Having said that, I think that the cause of the worst emotions is to think (or know) we will be subject to that behavior again because it's going to repeat and we don't have the strength to change the circumstances so the consequences are not on us.

So part of dealing with negative emotions, is- for me- again- empowerment. (Can you tell this has been a work in progress for a long time?)

My girlfriend once told me that once someone had shown their colors to me, the first time it was obvious that this was a pattern, it was on them. The second time,'it was on me. I've been taking that seriously, and it helps.

I'm finally to the point if someone does something, I'm not complicit in it by being silent- "that had an effect on me and I'm not liking it."

With loving partners, that's usually enough to start change.

If it's deep rooted, I'll need to look further and see if I'm able to accept and live with it without harm to me or not. (My first go/to is increasing my tolerance and broadness in living with humanity. If the stretch is positive, aka the behavior is a quirk, I can choose acceptance while asking for awareness if I want to. (Or just let it go, knowing that I love the other side of this quirk about that person.)

If it's not positive on me and not possible or reasonable to change, we can negotiate circumstances. Manage the problem so that it may exist, but doesn't affect me disproportionately. (I try and make sure that I'm not taking on more consequences for or expending more effort on someone else's problem than they are.)

If the stretch to accept this is negative, and in my opinion (and because it's my opinion, I can be talked out of it) I feel the healthy way forward is not to tolerate this in our relationship, (note- not just from them but from me- aka if the shoe was on the other foot, thy would also hate it), I'll not so much give but have an ultimatum- that's really not okay, and I don't have relationships under those circumstances. And without getting combative- because my position is a newly discovered fact, not a position to impose,, discuss with my partner what we should do about this.

If a partner reacts by some kind of power pressure- I sidestep that if I can and bring it back to the issue, or if that doesn't work, disengage from the issue (and take any space needed). I'll let us work through the issue independently until one of us has come up with a conclusion (accept, change, negotiate a fix, leave). This may mean I have a new position for them to react to, or they come around to my point of view, or they have something to bring up to me that I need to hear, or we change our relationship.

Emotions this way are tolerable. They give me a ton of feedback, but because I adjust to them, they stay mild. And I look forward to them because in listening to them, they make my life better,
 
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I think one of the huge benefits of poly is that through the loss of control, we all dig in to ourselves, develop coping skills, and end up personally empowered.

Polyamory doesn't have the exclusive on this. You can gain these things from monogamy, too. All relationships are ideally learning experiences in which we get to know ourselves better, whether monogamous or polyamorous, romantic or platonic, personal or work colleagues. All it takes is awareness and being awake in each moment, rather than lost in our heads.

If we understand that a sense of control over anything/anyone is an illusion, it doesn't matter what kind of relationship we're in, or even if we are single and unpartnered. Polyamory is just one way to have relationships, but there are a myriad number of ways to become self-aware, self-empowered, and happy in life. It's a mistake to put poly on a pedestal as some higher road to enlightenment.
 
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I'll probably get lynched for this, but I believe my (our) emotions can be caused by external circumstances and by the acts of others.

Oh, I think that they can, too. But although we can't always be in control of our emotions, we can and should be in control of the words and actions we express in response to them, and to some degree/extent even the ongoing thought processes that often follow emotional disturbance. Even if we can't break a cycle of thinking triggered by an emotional state, one might recognize that we need help and ask for it in the appropriate places (such as with a therapist if needed.)

I suppose I'm saying that while externalities may cause emotions, we still need to own that...ok, that emotion belongs to me, and the processes that spin out from this point of recognizing the emotion, are mine to deal with now.

But I also have gone TOO FAR with this. To the point of not asking for what I need, or not speaking up and addressing issues that upset me. I don't feel entitled to the consideration of others. I assume that my problems are just that...my problem. Learning to let others care for me, as I've said before elsewhere, has been actually hard even though I treasure it. So doing the empowered thing of speaking up for myself in relationships is a struggle for me.

Polyamory doesn't have the exclusive on this. You can gain these things from monogamy, too. All relationships are ideally learning experiences in which we get to know ourselves better, whether monogamous or polyamorous, romantic or platonic, personal or work colleagues. All it takes is awareness and being awake in each moment, rather than lost in our heads.

If we understand that a sense of control over anything/anyone is an illusion, it doesn't matter what kind of relationship we're in, or even if we are single and unpartnered. Polyamory is just one way to have relationships, but there are a myriad number of ways to become self-aware, self-empowered, and happy in life. It's a mistake to put poly on a pedestal as some higher road to enlightenment.

I agree...EXCEPT...insofar as that "assumption culture" too typical of many mono folk goes... Like for instance I have learned and gained a LOT just from being here at this forum, reading the thoughts of posters like you, Magdlyn, GalaGirl (especially GalaGirl), and so many others right? I've also learned a lot about handling challenging emotions and relating in more fair and healthy ways from the kink scene and discussion groups I attend, etc. Would I have gone there, or come here, if I had remained contentedly monogamous? No. Doing poly CAN lead to involvement with communities, which CAN lead to exposure to ideas...ideas that would be equally useful in pretty much any relationship though.
 
Re:
"... although we can't always be in control of our emotions, we can and should be in control of the words and actions we express in response to them ..."

Agreed.
 
What and how a person learns about themselves depends on that person. Polyamory, monogamy, eh, whatever. The question is always "are you willing to look at yourself and see what makes you tick?" I can choose to do that if I'm monogamous, polyamorous, or alone and solitary. Why, after all, is there usually a rather large section of self-help books focused on marriage and/or monogamous relationshps in any mainstream bookstore? Because monogamy is challenging. Relationships are challenging. Any relationship gives us the opportunity to look inward and figure out who we are, including our relationships with ourselves. Period. Every interaction with another human being is an opportunity for deepening one's self-knowledge and growth. Like I said, poly doesn't have the exclusive on that. The only thing we need is to be awake and aware enough to grok the lessons placed before us.
 
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