How isn't this polyamory? (Long Read)

BathedInSalt

New member
Something I started picking apart yesterday is about my relationship with SoulSister (formerly K)I have so far used it as a positive, like a "Hey, look we've been "doing" polyamory all long". I'd like to pick it apart, find out why it WASN’T polyamory.
Here's the story of me (f,bi,married with kids) and SoulSister (f, bi, married with kids).
I met SoulSister when I was pregnant with my first daughter, in the Summer 9 years ago.
I was married to my eldest daughter's father, Mike. We were introduced by a mutual friend. I was invited to her bachelorette party because she didn't have many friends, having just moved from Boston with her daughter and fiance. I didn't go, I was in my 6th month of my first pregnancy and feeling very home-bound. A month or more later that SoulSister gave me a ride to an OB appointment. I didn't have a car at the time. We connected first about music. Not much later our mutual friend started helping SoulSister remove herself from her abusive relationship with her husband. We started out as friends who provided mutual support through some pretty intense situations. The timing of these parts are blurry to me, but she left her husband, it was ugly and scary. Mike and I let SoulSister stay with us for a bit, we helped her get her stuff from her own home. All very intense. During that time I had my baby, 5 weeks later my husband accidentally overdosed. (I realize that this story is glossing over details of events that deserve novels written about them, bare with me. You are free to ask questions about anything also. I don't mind talking about any of this.)
I remember the first time I felt the urgency to kiss her. I was at her house visiting. I wasn't even fully accepting of my attraction to women at the time, mostly because my husband disapproved and poked fun at me for it. I had had experiences/experiments with 2 different women by then though. Enough to know. I didn't kiss her and much later on I realized she felt that same urgency that night too. Crazy.
After Mike passed I moved into a duplex next to my grandparents for about 8 months in a city I didn't want to live in. SoulSister stayed in the other city. We were both struggling in our grief. We supported the hell out of each other in a loving way, but not a partnered one. We'd become solidly best friends though. Over the course of the year we'd kissed and fooled around, never talked about what it was, what it meant, etc. We ended up living together for a year. I watched her 2 kids when she was working, and she watched my 1 kid when I worked. We split the bills and the responsibilities. We took care of each other and each other's kids. Our girls still think they are sisters because of that time. During that time SoulSister and I only hooked up twice, made out a lot, but it always seemed so casual. During that time we dated men, sometimes we shared them. We had fun. One drunken night she asked me why "can't it just be us". At the time I hadn't considered a relationship like that with her. I wasn't in the same place. I wasn't in any place to do the work needed to in order to give a lesbian relationship a shot, especially when we already lived together and had three kids under 3 yrs old. Mostly though I was grieving, or not grieving because of my baby. I wasn't fully accepting of who I was. We helped each other build a foundation so we could go our separate ways financially.
Not long after we met our husbands (2010). She married first, we still carried on our relationship. We spent a lot of time together, took care of each other, we hooked up often ( I realize that word is so vague, but it's everything you think of - the whole gamut from holding hands to sex). It wasn't 100% sanctioned by her new husband. He was aware, but mostly after the fact. My husband however knew from the very beginning that SoulSister and I had an intimate relationship, both emotional and physical. When I met my husband SoulSister and I had already been something for 2 years. She and I tried to cool down the physical stuff. It didn't always work, mostly because we would get so drunk and lose all impulse control. At a party in July of 2011 I was pregnant with my son, SoulSister's husband (Jim) basically outed me as bisexual at a party at his house. He was "kidding" and just kept asking me "you like women right? until I just said very loudly, "yes, Jim, I like women, is that a problem for you?" I said it right next to my husband, I said it so the party could hear. I was pushed out of the closet and you know what? It was great.
In September 2011 our (my husband and my) son was born stillborn. Again SoulSister was there for me, every day.
A year later something changed in my heart about the way I felt for SoulSister I really fell in love with her, I really let myself sink into those deep feelings. Then next time we were intimate it was more bonding and less purely physical (for me). She could tell something had changed too. At that point we both confronted these feelings and had the familiar conversation that happens when you are practicing monogamy (even if we weren’t practicing it well or good for everyone involved.) “I’m in love with you, you’re in love with me, we both love our families.” My husband was ok with me loving SoulSister her husband was NOT ok with it. Neither of us wanted to break up our families, she had 3 kids total by then, I had 2 and one was an infant still. I never entertained the idea of poly then, I never thought I would leave my husband and be with SoulSister now. That was my choice. So, we backed off again.
Around 2014 word got round to our whole friend group about how serious SoulSister I had gotten. It fractured the group. There were about 3 events: Oct., NYE, and in March. I’ll tell you about March. I hadn’t seen SoulSister since a NYE party at my house. We had, had a huge fight then. I was nervous about seeing her, she was nervous about seeing me too. It didn’t take long before we were up to our old antics though. We were at a local music festival. We, everyone started drinking early. By the end of the day I found myself having a sobbing conversation with SoulSister I had abandoned my husband and what was worse was that I didn’t care. I didn’t care about him, I didn’t care about my kids, my friends. I had one care, her. Maybe two if I include myself. That night opened my eyes as to how selfish I could truly be, how awful I could act, how unhealthy SoulSister and I had become. It changed my world. I could clearly see how much dysfunction SoulSister and I were capable of. Jim left her at the festival. My husband, well he handled it well, but this event is going to be rehashed real soon because I don’t actually know the ways in which the event affected him.
Out of self-preservation (among other things) I pulled back from everyone. I ended two friendships, one never recovered. The other was SoulSister,but I ended it because I needed to figure out my heart and couldn’t do it talking to her all the time. I could no longer tell what was manipulated, what was alcohol fueled and yeah (if you couldn’t see it), aspects of our relationship were co-dependent.
The following almost 2 years I learned how to support myself. It was great for me to be my own best friend. It did wonders for me. I combatted self esteem issues, jealousy, learned to make new friends and invested in old friendships that I didn’t “have time” for in the past. When SoulSister and I started talking again we were both different and better versions of ourselves. She had recognized she was an alcoholic and was seeking treatment. So, for the last 2 years we’ve had our best friendship back. We’ve consciously not picked up again with a sexual relationship. Her sobriety certainly helps, but I’ve also changed. I didn’t like any of the negative ramifications of our physically intimate moments. That catches you up to today. We are still best friends, still love each other to the moon and back. Still supporting one another. Still caring for each other’s kids. Still sharing life. Consciously keeping and nourishing our friendship.
9 years later, SoulSister and I are still one another’s “person”. For the sake of my primary goal (figuring out why it wasn’t polyamory) I’ve left out all of the good moments, the romance, the tenderness and tried to keep it to the facts. We fucked up a lot. I didn’t act ethically always. We were bad for each other at times, we were great for eachother. I wouldn’t be the same me right now if it weren’t for her.
I’m asking you now, how was this polyamory and how wasn’t it. I feel like I’m consulting the experts on this one, it’s ok to be brutal because I know how shitty parts of this are, how shameful.
You’ll just have to trust that there were a million other moments of good stuff. Moments where everyone in this story bonded, shared wonderful experiences, acted out of love. Even Jim and I have recovered our friendship. We’re all at a pretty good place now. We’ve all grown. So much.
 
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Attachments

In the future it would be an easier read to be able to attach a file for long posts like this. So the format would be more clear. I'll learn how and where I can host my attachment.
What attachments does the forum support? I tried a docx (didn't work) and my PDF was too big.
 
You don't necessarily need to attach a file, but it would be easier to read if you put an extra space between paragraphs.

Like this.

Then the text is spread out a bit more, making it easier for people to see.

As for your situation, who says it isn't polyamory? I read the entire post, and saw no mention of anyone telling you that what you and K have isn't poly. You admit behaving unethically at times, and ethics are part of poly, but that still doesn't make it not polyamory. It just makes it not ethical.
 
You don't necessarily need to attach a file, but it would be easier to read if you put an extra space between paragraphs.

Like this.

Then the text is spread out a bit more, making it easier for people to see.

As for your situation, who says it isn't polyamory? I read the entire post, and saw no mention of anyone telling you that what you and K have isn't poly. You admit behaving unethically at times, and ethics are part of poly, but that still doesn't make it not polyamory. It just makes it not ethical.

I think I'm going to put this story, formatted better in my blog "One Mistake at at Time" so there's more context.
I forum'd wrong today :p
 
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Giving people nicknames also would make it easier to read. We don't generally process letters for names, we process names for names. K and K's husband need nicknames in your story.
 
Giving people nicknames also would make it easier to read. We don't generally process letters for names, we process names for names. K and K's husband need nicknames in your story.
Ok, I'll do that. Thanks for the pointer.
 
You love more than one person. That's poly. It might not have been neat and clean, but life is usually messy and we just have to deal with that.
 
Loving more than 1 person is an entry requirement for polyamory in my book. It's also got to be consensual.

You write very well, BathedInSalt. I very much enjoy reading stories like yours - honest, raw... real. You've made me think about a great many things.

To answer your question, I've found that polyamory is just a label. The practice of polyamory covers many many different types of relationship structures with unclear or overlapping boundaries with other forms of ethical non monogamy. I wouldn't get too hung up on the label. What you had with SoulSister was beautiful most of the time and tragic at others, more tragic to me because I see a large part of your pain as being forced on you by society's values and homophobia, along with heteroprivilege hampering what can only be called love between the two of you.

I hope you find what you need on these forums and stay on. I feel your life experiences could really help others, like myself, grow and learn.

Thank you,
Shaya.
 
Loving more than 1 person is an entry requirement for polyamory in my book. It's also got to be consensual.

You write very well, BathedInSalt. I very much enjoy reading stories like yours - honest, raw... real. You've made me think about a great many things.

To answer your question, I've found that polyamory is just a label. The practice of polyamory covers many many different types of relationship structures with unclear or overlapping boundaries with other forms of ethical non monogamy. I wouldn't get too hung up on the label. What you had with SoulSister was beautiful most of the time and tragic at others, more tragic to me because I see a large part of your pain as being forced on you by society's values and homophobia, along with heteroprivilege hampering what can only be called love between the two of you.

I hope you find what you need on these forums and stay on. I feel your life experiences could really help others, like myself, grow and learn.

Thank you,
Shaya.

So beautifully written.

Couldn't have said it better.
 
Thank you for reading it and the compliment.
My husband read this and looked at me and said "you are good". Pretty sure my heart exploded.
SoulSister read it too and said she perceived everything very similarly to how I did.
phew, right?

Now I'm just gonna breathe for a little while.
 
FWIW? To me it sounds like you had some kind of open relationship thing going on.

  • You were seeing Soulsister and were her friend and lover.
  • There was love in there somewhere. So it was some kind of polyamory.
  • You both were also were seeing other men and eventually both married.
    • Your husband was aware and ok with it.
    • Her husband Jim was aware, albeit not ok with it. He eventually left her/divorced. (?)

During that process you both had to come to terms with a lot of things.

  • You with loving women in general/being bisexual/being in love with Soulsister.
  • Soulsister also had to come to terms with alcoholism.
  • Both of you had to heal from some codependence stuff.
  • You now are best friends, but let the romance go. (?)

You are still coming to terms with some things.

At the festival, you were thinking about leaving your husband for Soulsister. Today you are still worried that you might outgrow him, or stick with him and grow regrets/resentments.

He seems willing to consider polyamory/open marriage.
  • I guess you are trying to figure out if that means another try with Soulsister or dating new people in a new polyamorous network.
  • And whether you want to do that with husband in your poly network or if you want to part ways with him on good terms first and move on to poly on your own?
  • Or if you want to give up the want to poly and remain with husband, but in a more emotionally honest version of the marriage than before?

I might be wrong, but that's the impression I get. Like you are going through this transformation process where you are trying to live more authentically inside and out, and get all your stuff more organized and less messy than it was in the past.

Galagirl
 
Hi BathedInSalt,

My definition of polyamory is, "the state of being, or the ability and/or inclination to be, in a romantically-connected group of more than two adults, with the full knowledge and consent of all the adults in the group." Your relationship with SoulSister seems to meet that definition, except perhaps the consent part, since Jim wasn't 100% consenting. Other than that, I'd say it was 90% polyamorous.

Sincerely,
Kevin T.
 
I'd say it was maybe sloppy poly. Obviously the thing with her husband wasn't completely ethical. And you seemed to be not too sure whether you wanted poly or mono...you were thinking more along mono lines, flipping between your hubby and SoulSister.
 
I'd say it was maybe sloppy poly. Obviously the thing with her husband wasn't completely ethical. And you seemed to be not too sure whether you wanted poly or mono...you were thinking more along mono lines, flipping between your hubby and SoulSister.

VERY sloppy, and yeah mono thinking...that's something I didn't even know I was doing.
Mono thinking is something I really want to look into, even if I never live polyamorously it's worth seeing how this mono idea shapes my worldview.
I only saw two choices then, leave my husband and be with SoulSister or bury my feelings for SoulSister and stay with my husband.

I buried my feelings and hurt myself in the process. I'm still recovering from that.

The last couple years I've been trying to come back to life.
My husband and I talked about it on the 4th, resurrecting. I really had to distance myself from my feelings and when one gets suppressed they kinda all do. I can't just pick and choose. Just like when I allow myself to start feeling them again I don't get to pick and choose which ones tag along with one another.

My husband passed unexpectedly many years ago and when I started to let myself experience happiness again it was almost always followed by sadness. It used to make me so mad, but I get it now. Feelings just flow and often together.
 
I might be wrong, but that's the impression I get. Like you are going through this transformation process where you are trying to live more authentically inside and out, and get all your stuff more organized and less messy than it was in the past.

Galagirl

You nailed it.
You're lists are so helpful, thank you.
 
VERY sloppy, and yeah mono thinking...that's something I didn't even know I was doing.
Mono thinking is something I really want to look into, even if I never live polyamorously it's worth seeing how this mono idea shapes my worldview.
I only saw two choices then, leave my husband and be with SoulSister or bury my feelings for SoulSister and stay with my husband.

I buried my feelings and hurt myself in the process. I'm still recovering from that.

The last couple years I've been trying to come back to life.
My husband and I talked about it on the 4th, resurrecting. I really had to distance myself from my feelings and when one gets suppressed they kinda all do. I can't just pick and choose. Just like when I allow myself to start feeling them again I don't get to pick and choose which ones tag along with one another.

My husband passed unexpectedly many years ago and when I started to let myself experience happiness again it was almost always followed by sadness. It used to make me so mad, but I get it now. Feelings just flow and often together.

I wish i could point you in the direction of some reading material on that. I'm sure it must be out there somewhere, but that is a realization I came upon on my own.

When you think about it, monogamy is almost like a religion in the western world. We are taught it from day one. When I was growing up, kids with divorced parents came from "broken homes". Husband, wife, 2.5 kids, white picket fence, the American Dream. It takes a lot to overcome that even if you are not wired for monogamy.

I used to be like you. I would be in love with one person, then fall for another, then feel I had to choose. I was a serial monogamist because I didn't know any other way.

Sorry about you husband. My wife passed recently so I am only at the beginning of that rollercoaster ride.
 
When you think about it, monogamy is almost like a religion in the western world.
Oh, my YES... but no "almost" at all. :( IMO, it's not per se monogamy that's at fault. After all, that's a perfectly workable relational structure, & people seem to gravitate to it instinctively. (Dyads are the natural "building block" of larger relational structure, potentially very strong AND allowing maximal flexibility.)

But along comes Monogamism, setting up monogamy as The Only True Way. Worse, it prescribes a dyad that is founded with NO prior experience in sex or relationship (or householding or even basic bookkeeping), & must be maintained at all costs until death breaks the partnership -- there have even been those who advocated against remarriage, period.

There was no "sexual revolution" in the 1960s... except maybe for two things: legal access to birth control (abortion, "the pill," condoms), & the rise of "no fault" divorce.
When I was growing up, kids with divorced parents came from "broken homes".
And there were so FEW. :eek: You likely also remember hearing someone referred to as "a love child" (polite term for bastard; even "out of wedlock" doesn't come up often nowadays.)

But even the widowed were considered somewhat suspect until they paired up & came unarguably back into the Monogamist world-image. Yet, a widowed woman with children going on a date... oh, dear inches away from scandal & angry neighbors with pitchforks & torches...

And that was maybe 40 years ago. :(
 
Can we talk about mono worldview?
I think that inside me I'm battling what I was told to think and what I actually think.
I'm making myself feel guilty, or shame and just a general yuck.

When I realized that I still get crushes, or am attracted to other people than the person I'm in a mono relationship with I thought that was a universal deal, like "oh, everyone gets crushes after they're partnered up, it just matters what you DO with those feelings."
I'm totally not confidant in that idea anymore.
Are there people who truly find their "one and only" and never have feelings for another again?
I'm not that person, so I must be a slut. That's what my fantastic inner self keeps saying.
I wanna talk this out, I need a little direction.
 
When I realized that I still get crushes, or am attracted to other people than the person I'm in a mono relationship with I thought that was a universal deal, like "oh, everyone gets crushes after they're partnered up, it just matters what you DO with those feelings."

That's pretty much what I think/feel. Feelings come, feelings go, but what I choose to do in response to those feelings is up to me.

I enjoy poly, and I get crushes all the time. But right now during the active parenting time/eldercare time there's enough people on my plate. I don't have time or space for more people. I barely have enough time for my spouse! So my spouse and I have an agreement of "Closed for now, renegotiate when some of these people are gone." It was open before kids, and could be again after kids. But not during kids because that's just too much going on in our family. So I'm content to crush from afar to myself and wait it out.

These kids won't be here forever. Neither will the frail elders. Some have already passed away and I feel a much lighter load than when I first started posting here.

Are there people who truly find their "one and only" and never have feelings for another again?

Sure. Why not?

People come in all shapes and sizes. Tall, short. Blond, red head. Brown eyes, blue eyes. They can come with different love styles or relationship preferences. That's allowed. We don't all have to be the same cookie cutter people.

One of my aunts recently buried her husband. He was pretty much the one and only her whole life and now if the convent will have her, she's going to live out her elder years as a nun. I think that's pretty bad ass. Super old school, and not what I would want to do. But she knows her own mind and what she wants and how she wants to live her life. She's been doing it this long, she's not stopping now!

An elder church woman I know is on her 3rd or 4th husband. She recently came back from her honeymoon. I think that's badass too. She also knows knows her own mind and what she wants and how she wants to live her life.

You can live your life how you want and make your own choices. It's ok to take up the space you do.

I think that inside me I'm battling what I was told to think and what I actually think.

I'm not sure you are talking about (mono worldview) per se. I think you are talking about your (thinking process itself) and how it came to be what it is and where it might go next.

I might be wrong, but you sound like you are at the stage of life where you are becoming the internal authority. You no longer just do stuff because some external authority (parent, teacher, coach etc) is telling you what to do or what believe and you just do it because you rely on them to steer you right.

Now you have to decide what to do. You are the captain of your own ship. YOU have to steer you right. Which means you have to sift the old stuff you learned in the past, weigh it against your life experience so far, weigh it against where you want to go next, and decide (what is still useful and worth keeping) and (what's been outgrown or does not apply/is not relevant).

I'm not that person, so I must be a slut. That's what my fantastic inner self keeps saying.

What's wrong with being a "slut?" So long as all parties involved are consenting adults and look after their health hygiene stuff... if people want to share sex with each other in whatever way or combo or number of partners... so what? It's their life, their bodies, and their pleasure. They know their own mind and can live their lives how they want.

To me it sounds like you have an intense/judgy inner critical voice. You put yourself down twice in that sentence. The first time you call yourself names like "slut." The second time you shame/are sarcastic about your thinking process. How about just skipping all that? :confused:

And choosing to talk to yourself/about your thinking with more self respect/politeness? Could stop taking things so personally and view them more situationally.

There can be "criticism" that doesn't help you meet your goal. It just puts you down. "I am a sucky sewer!" (taking it personally, devaluing the person)

There can be "critique" where you can give yourself feedback so you meet your goal better in future. "Shoot. I measured the fabric on these curtains wrong. Now I have to rip out the seam and sew it all over again. Next time I should measure one day, and sew another day so I'm not making mistakes from tiredness." (Taking it situationally, thinking of ways to improve the situation so next time so goal is met better.)

So with your sentence it could be...

"I'm a slut" (shaming) vs "I enjoy sharing sex with a variety of people and they with me" (what the situation is without shaming)

"That's what my fantastic inner self keeps saying." (shaming + sarcasm) vs "That's my thinking process right now" (what the situatuion is without shaming)​

Sometimes those inner critic voices come from parents or others around us in our formative years. Like if person has a scoldy parent that never finds anything right with the child... That child develops this "shaming, self bully" thing rather than developing confidence in their own capabilities. Including the capability to think things out and make good choices for themselves. Even when the parent is no longer around, the now adult keeps up the "parent shaming voice" going on in their heads.

Why be your own self bully? You could stop calling yourself names. Be ok with having lots of lovers if you like relating that way. There's nothing wrong with that.

You are not your thoughts or your feelings. You are the person DOING the thinking, experiencing the feelings. So you can always change your mind and think different. Which might lead to different feelings bubbling up in response to the new thoughts.

Could learn ways of thinking/talking to yourself in your head.

Galagirl
 
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" It's ok to take up the space you do." I just wrote that in crayon on a peace of construction paper and taped it to the fridge.

You're not wrong. Part of it is mono worldview, but most of it is my own brand of thinking process. I'm trying to tease out what is mono thinking, because so far those are the parts that feel out of place or just don't make sense to me.
I feel like I have a pretty good grasp on how my inner voice came to be: raised Christian, some mix of general Bible based churches, Baptist and Pentecostal, the other heavy hand in my thinking was my mom. My mom is why my inner voice is almost always yelling at me in anger. I also have some sort of balancing voice in there somewhere too. I did have at least one person believe in me as a kid. I'm a smart girl, I've taken steps for self improvement. I have always been able to determine what I feel and what I know and to attempt to heal any discrepancies between the two (of which there have been so many).

I've come a long way, but still have a long way to go I think. I don't get stuck negative self-talking, but the words still come and I have to stop and push them out. Replace them with the truth. I am always up against this deep seated feeling of never being good enough. I've been working away at it for a long time. It's gotten quieter, but it's still there lurking.

Steering this ship solo is scary to me. It's not the first time, but it's the first time with so much freedom. After my eldest' father died it was her and I for a time. I was too busy tending her to deal with my feelings or myself at all. All my choices were seemingly made for me, or at least they were made easier by guidelines. Baby comes first, all decisions were made to that guide.
Up until now I've had this monogamy guide, even though now my husband and I are realizing we don't even know what monogamy guide we were working off of. It's not something we ever had to talk about before and it's something I started the conversation about.

I think I'm going to re-read your post a few more times.
 
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