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KC43

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So I've decided to kick off a new blog thread here. With some big changes from the way I did things with my old one.

I'm finding that I have a lot of things to work through and process when it comes to stuff like socializing and sex. Decades of mixed messages or flat-out negative ones implanted some pretty deep negative impressions, and left me with serious gaps in understanding when it comes to some parts of what Reverie refers to as "humaning." I don't human well. I'm working on it.

So mostly what I'm planning to do here is processing. I'm open to feedback. Some of you know I don't always understand things "everyone knows" about social interactions, and I have a lot of refining and redefining to do in my thoughts and views about sex. Unlike before, I won't be venting and ranting here; I've set up a private journal for that. This is meant to be just a processing spot, and if anyone sees something I'm saying that they have an idea or opinion about, please feel free to share. I learn from others.

I'm only planning to mention other people here if it's directly related to what I'm blogging about. (For example, "my boyfriend and I went to karaoke, and this other person said something upsetting, so here's how I feel about it.") I won't be discussing anyone's personal life except my own. At my boyfriend's request, I won't be using a nickname here for him, just calling him "my boyfriend"; if anyone remembers the nickname I used for him previously, I ask that you *not* use it now. I will still be using the same nicknames for Hubby and my offspring, who have okayed it.

Also, my boyfriend and Hubby have my full consent to read this blog, or ask me or someone else to read it to them. This is partly because I want to make sure I don't cross comfort zones with the things I post, and partly because we don't know who "outed" my blog last time. In case that person or someone else decides it'd be fun to do it again, I want to make sure boyfriend and Hubby are fully aware of what I've posted. They aren't going to censor me, or tell me what I can and can't post other than as directly relates to them. (Using my above example, my boyfriend might say "Instead of saying we went to karaoke, I'd prefer you just say that we went out." And he actually knows I'm planning to mention karaoke here, in case anyone's wondering.)

I really hate having to put so many contingency plans into place. It sucks ass that on a forum where I used to feel very comfortable, and had a level of trust with the posters in general, I now feel suspicious and uncomfortable, and don't really know who I can and can't trust. Such is the nature of the internet, I guess.

And one final thing, because this grates on me: I am neither crazy nor dangerous. Nor is anyone else with diagnosed mental illnesses. I have medical conditions that sometimes interfere with my perceptions or reactions; I am fully aware of this and use the tools I have to sort through those perceptions and figure out where the disconnect is. My previous blog was one of those tools; this one will probably not be. But unless you're a spider, ant, or mosquito, I'm not dangerous, and mental illness, even when it affects one's perceptions, is not "crazy." If your opinion of someone with anxiety, depression, PTSD, etc. is that they're "crazy" and "dangerous," fuck you. Stay off my blog.

That's about as ranty as I'm gonna get...I just needed to get that off my chest.
 
I'm am so glad to see you have started a new blog! I was concerned about you (and I know others were as well.) I also say a big "fuck you!" to whoever outed you in the first place.
 
I thought your bf was aware of your blog all along?

Anyway, welcome back. And I cheer on you in the battle against the mental illness stigma.
 
Glad to see you with a new blog. Here's hoping it grows to feel more and more comfortable over time. The only thing I take exception to in this post is the fact that spiderbros can be your friend. ;)

Fuck the haters, and the douchebags who would out you and call you crazy. Double-fuck them for hiding behind anonymity and making you question your trust in people.

Feeling very salty today. Pardon my French.
 
Thanks, powerpuff :) I've been lurking here and occasionally commenting on posts, and even started a couple threads, but I've been cautious about what I post because I want to avoid further complications.

Tinwen, my boyfriend was aware that I had the blog, but not of the content. I had asked him and Hubby *not* to read my previous blog, because I wanted it to be a safe place for me to vent and ramble about problems with them, among other things, without worrying that they would see it and get upset. Obviously it wasn't as safe a place as I thought, but it was safe from Hubby and boyfriend, at least... This time, it seemed prudent to give them access so they can read it if they choose.
 
Glad to see you with a new blog. Here's hoping it grows to feel more and more comfortable over time. The only thing I take exception to in this post is the fact that spiderbros can be your friend. ;)

Fuck the haters, and the douchebags who would out you and call you crazy. Double-fuck them for hiding behind anonymity and making you question your trust in people.

Feeling very salty today. Pardon my French.

YAH, I love this! Thanks for being supportive :) And I've no problem with salt, or French... or spiders except when they're crawling on me or my stuff. LOL
 
So glad to see you back, KC! :eek:
 
It must have been chillingly awful for you and your boyfriend when whoever it was decided to throw a fit. This is a good solution.

I look forward to learning even more from you!

Leetah
 
Hey KC, I think you already know I am a big supporter of you being able to blog as a way to work on things you are struggling with. I really hate that someone with cruel intentions created such drama and negativity for you that your other blog had to go kaput. I hope your new private blog works well for venting, too.

And a hello to Hubby and the boyfriend!
 
Thanks, everyone :)

So, processy thing number one....pictures.

As I posted not long ago in another thread, I've gone a few times to a "play club"...where I "played" two of the four times I went, and I haven't gone in nearly a month.

Which is beside the point...

I was, with my consent, added to three Facebook groups affiliated with the club. Mostly social chatting, but since they're secret groups, there's some explicit content and some nudity in the pics people post. Two of the groups have themes for pics for each weekday. Tuesday is "titty Tuesday."

I was in a mood this past Tuesday, so I posted a "titty" pic, which didn't show anything more than my bra. I liked how the pic looked, and I posted it because I'm working on liking how I look. A few people in the group "liked" the pic. All was well.

Then that evening, I got a private message from one of the guys I'd played with at the club. He complimented the pic, I said thank you, and he asked if he could see more.

I got pissed off. I don't like getting blatantly hit on, and I really hate when what I perceive as a friendly conversation turns sexual. I decided not to answer.

I talked to my boyfriend about it, and he seemed surprised that I was upset. According to him, when people post pics in a group like that, or on Fet or whatever, it's viewed as flirtation, and is considered sometimes an invitation to continue to flirt. (He is not in any of the Facebook groups; he's never been to the play club, and only people who attend the club are invited to the groups.) He also pointed out that the guy who messages me has actually fucked me and probably couldn't understand why I wasn't continuing the conversation.

It genuinely did not occur to me that I was flirting or advertising or whatever by posting the pic. I was just feeling positive about myself for a change. My boyfriend seemed confused as to why that would be my reason for posting a pic in that kind of group.

My point was that I've experienced way too many times when a comment like "can I see more" has led to seriously explicit, sometimes horribly disgusting or frightening comments, and I didn't see why I should have to answer the guy when I wasn't comfortable with what he said.

I don't get being turned on by pictures anyway. Or by bodies in person, for that matter. It's a body. Everyone has one. I don't look at them; if I were asked to describe Hubby or my boyfriend naked, I would be unable to do so. I do understand that many people *are* attracted to bodies and turned on by pictures, but I can't relate to how that feels or to the thought processes behind it. So the idea of a picture as communication of "hey, I'm available, aren't I hot?" makes no sense to me.

My boyfriend assured me that he didn't think the guy was going to get pushy or assholistic about propositioning me, that the guy was probably flirting and expressing interest, and suggested a couple responses I could make. I wasn't pissed off anymore, but I chose not to respond to the guy.

Interestingly, last night the guy messaged to say he hoped he hadn't offended me. I said he hadnt and I was sorry I hadn't answered the night before, and that was the end of it.

Any typos in this post are due to me being on my phone...
 
I've mentioned before that at social group gatherings, e.g. karaoke, I feel very anxious and out of place, and usually pretty dang awkward. Coming up with conversation topics beyond introducing myself isn't easy. Often, I can't manage it at all. My boyfriend, who is my polar opposite as far as social skills and desire to socialize go, has tried to help, but he doesn't understand what it's like for me, so his advice isn't always useful to me.

I found a writing on FetLife yesterday that perfectly described how I feel at events like that. So perfectly I could have actually written it. (I didn't. I wish I had.) I read that to my boyfriend, and he understands a bit better now, but even so, he only gets it on an intellectual level. He can't really relate to how it feels.

Last night was karaoke. Since I had a rough time earlier this week with the social skills issue (it's wicked easy to feel like a complete failure as a human being for not being able to carry on a simple small talk conversation), I wasn't sure how I would do. I knew my boyfriend would have my back, as he always does. We spent a little time alone together before going to the event, and I left for the venue feeling more confident and stronger, but still not sure how it would go.

But it ended up going very, very well. I felt comfortable the entire time, which is rare for me. It helps that we've developed a small group of regulars who show up nearly every month, and I've become friends with a few of them. When I walked into the venue--without my boyfriend; we'd had to bring separate cars, and he'd gotten caught in traffic--the first two people I saw were one of my friends and his girlfriend, whom I'd met before but hadn't talked much to. Since I felt comfortable with them, and also felt like I had to take over the hosting role until my boyfriend arrived, I struck up a conversation.

I was even able to get the ball rolling on having a table set up for our group. Usually my boyfriend calls the venue in advance, so things are ready when we arrive, but he hadn't had a chance this time. And usually I have trouble asking for things, or explaining what I'm trying to ask for, in a situation like that, but since I was the one who was there, I went over to the counter to talk to one of the staff. When she said had no record of any call from my boyfriend, I explained our group to her (for the purposes of communicating with the venue, we're a social group that meets up for dinner and karaoke once a month) and told her about how many people we were expecting, and she went off to arrange a table and a server for our group. By the time my boyfriend arrived, we hadn't been seated yet, but the table was being readied.

More people arrived, and I talked to all of them. One of them was joining our group for the first time, and even though I was standing farthest from the door (we were still waiting for our table), I was the one he chose to walk over to speak to first.

I wasn't having any trouble with conversations last night. Something clicked in my brain, and I was able to think of things to say, like talking about my books (one recently won an award) and family and such. When we sat down, I was between my boyfriend and one of our regular guys, with a guy who'd been there once before across from me and the new guy across from my boyfriend. I was talking with the three guys; they were being flirty, I flirted back, but it wasn't blatant. It was more the way the conversation went, tone of voice and facial expression and such. It was actually pretty fun. Several times during the evening, I caught the new guy looking at me and smiling, which made me feel good.

It's a lot easier to recognize flirting when face to face with someone, because tone of voice and facial expressions have a lot to do with it. When someone's flirting via written means, especially if it's someone I don't know well, it's harder for me to identify it as flirting because I only have the words to go by. Written expression is a strength for me, but recognizing intention from words on a screen is something I doubt anyone can always be accurate with.

I had to leave early last night; I'd planned to only stay long enough to do one song for karaoke, which was why my boyfriend and I had arrived in separate cars. (We show up for dinner about 2 hours before karaoke starts, so there's time for chat and socializing before really loud music happens.) I had to get up at oh-my-god-o'clock this morning, because Country's leaving for college today and I'm going with her to make sure paperwork is done, get her settled in her room, etc. (She has a car. She doesn't *need* me to go, but wants me to.) So I couldn't stay at karaoke as late as usual, and I couldn't stay over with my boyfriend the way I normally do on karaoke nights. Knowing I would be able to leave early might have contributed to my comfort level, but so did having previously met over half the people there, and having made up my mind that I was going to at least try.

My song worked out great too... I did "Enter Sandman," which even in karaoke version has a ridiculously long instrumental intro during which, when I do that song, I usually do some banter and connecting with the audience. I made some jokes that got a lot of laughs, including from the karaoke DJ (who knows me by now, he's there every month), nailed the song, and got a few compliments from total strangers.

My boyfriend walked me out to my car when I had to leave and told me how proud of me he was for how confident and comfortable I'd appeared. Which made me feel good; I don't do things specifically to make him proud of me, but the little-kid part of me that was constantly insulted and bullied and almost never complimented likes hearing that someone is proud of me...
 
That's awesome, KC! It sounds like you had an amazing night :) I also am not so confident with small talk. For me, a great night like you had last night, would just make me more comfortable and confident for the next time. I hope that's true for you as well! Btw, congrats on winning the award! (And I hope the college drop-off goes well. I just did one of those myself :) )

PS. I'm glad you've started a new blog. I really enjoyed reading your last one.
 
And one final thing, because this grates on me: I am neither crazy nor dangerous. Nor is anyone else with diagnosed mental illnesses. I have medical conditions that sometimes interfere with my perceptions or reactions; I am fully aware of this and use the tools I have to sort through those perceptions and figure out where the disconnect is. My previous blog was one of those tools; this one will probably not be. But unless you're a spider, ant, or mosquito, I'm not dangerous, and mental illness, even when it affects one's perceptions, is not "crazy." If your opinion of someone with anxiety, depression, PTSD, etc. is that they're "crazy" and "dangerous," fuck you. Stay off my blog.

That's about as ranty as I'm gonna get...I just needed to get that off my chest.

This. So. Much.

Thank you KC for standing up for yourself and in the process standing up for the rest of us.
 
Thanks, both of you :)

One thing I'm realizing... Even if I go to a social event and am social and converse with people there, it doesn't carry over. Like at karaoke, I had a great time talking to the people who were part of our group. Two of them were already my friends on Fet. Of the rest, only one sent me a friend request, and that was only because my boyfriend strongly suggested he do so (because I told my boyfriend I thought the guy was cute and I might want to continue a connection of some kind. My boyfriend is invested in trying to help me find more friends, with or without benefits. He did ask me before he talked to the guy, and he only talked to the guy on my behalf because I had to leave early and didn't have a chance to talk to the guy myself about becoming Fet friends).

But even with that one guy... okay, so now we're friends on Fet. And? I don't know how to start a conversation with him, so it's likely to turn out just like the other people I've connected with at karaoke who I've friended on there because I was interested in friendship or, with a few guys, in seeing if things went beyond friendship. But there isn't any friendship with any of them, let alone any "beyond.". We're Fet friends. We say hi at karaoke, if they go again. And that's it. No private messages or hanging out or anything. They're just another name on a list on a website.

It's like that with my Facebook friends list too, for that matter. I don't actually communicate with probably 90% of the people on my Facebook list. They're just names on the list. I know some of them much better from "real life" than the people on my Fet list, but there's still no communication or connection, they're just on my friends list.

I actually just eliminated a number of people from my Facebook list, because last week I went on a date with a guy from the group through which I met Hubby, and he told me several women from that group had told him to steer clear of me, and had lectured him for talking to me at events back when I was still going to events with that group. (Which I haven't done in nearly a year and a half, partly because of those women.) Some of the folks from that group were friends on my personal Facebook account; a number more were friends with my romance author Facebook account. They aren't friends with either anymore. I don't have time for junior high clique bullshit from middle-aged women.
 
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But even with that one guy... okay, so now we're friends on Fet. And? I don't know how to start a conversation with him, so it's likely to turn out just like the other people I've connected with at karaoke who I've friended on there because I was interested in friendship or, with a few guys, in seeing if things went beyond friendship. But there isn't any friendship with any of them, let alone any "beyond.". We're Fet friends. We say hi at karaoke, if they go again. And that's it. No private messages or hanging out or anything. They're just another name on a list on a website.

Making close connections is hard. Being "facebook friends" can be a good first step - but it only means you actually have a way to make contact if you want to.

I know hundreds of people. Most of them are (remote) friends of the "he does the same activity so we exchange a few words if we see each other twice a year" kind.

If I want to meet any of them more often then that, I ask them out for tea or something like that. Usually it happens after meeting at quite a few events and developing some sort of sympathy or solidarity.
Most people would meet once or twice. Only in a really small percentage of cases the interest is mutual and lasts for years. I can count people I'm seeing regularly one-on-one on the fingers of one hand, people I am fond to meet in a group setting (and make some time to talk longer there, but won't make more room in our lives then that) may be ~30.

People connect about different things. For me, it's one-on-one time, and sharing what's going on in our lives (outer, then inner). Meta is very different - she connects when doing practical stuff together. She is an organizer of events and will know best the people who had been working with her. For Idealist I suspect it is easiest to connect intellectually with guys and on an erotic basis with girls.
I think you could spend some time figuring out what it actually is you would like to DO with people, in general or in the particular case of this guy. Then you can say "hey, let's talk" or "let's do some sports together" or "I'd like to practice my energy healing skills" or "I think you're cute, can we just go for a walk and see if we connect?" (usually you don't outright say that you want sex, though maybe it's a useful skill to be able to do so) ... and see if they're up to it (once, two times, many times). Of course you will be rejected many times. Making close connections is hard.
 
See, the "what do you want to do" part is one of the most difficult for me. I have a very hard time identifying anything I'm interested in that's something you "do" with other people. Aside from conversation and sex, and I'm not into having sex with everyone I know, since some are not attractive to me and some are women. (Nothing against women. I just don't find them sexually attractive or appealing.)

The energy healing business, by the way, has gone on indefinite hiatus. I had too many things going on this summer, and I was collapsing under the weight of everything I was trying to do. I'm not a businessperson by any stretch, and I was finding myself having anxiety and panic attacks because I knew I "should" be doing business-ish things but I didn't know what those things were, or I knew what but not how to do them. So I chose to stop trying for a while until I work through some of the more important things in my life.

Plus I have a part-time job now, so I don't really have time to devote to something that wasn't giving me any type of return whatsoever. I like helping people, but the energy healing *business* was meant to bring in at least a little bit of money, and it wasn't doing so and would probably continue not doing so unless I put many, many hours into it--without any guarantee of any financial gain whatsoever. It became too much stress and not enough benefit.

(That's not entirely relevant, but since Tinwen mentioned energy healing and I remembered that I'd mentioned here that I was trying to start the business, I wanted to follow up with an update about that.)

I don't even really care so much if I make *close* connections, or if I see people in person or just chat with them online occasionally. I just would like to have more people to talk to than Hubby and my boyfriend. When I look at my Facebook or FetLife friends lists and see absolutely no one I feel comfortable reaching out to even just to say "hi," there's a problem.

Which admittedly is *my* problem; I come from a background where I was constantly told not to say anything unless it was important, not to "bother" people unless it was important, etc....so the idea of reaching out to someone just to say hi, even if it's someone I'm friendly with, results in me thinking "But I don't actually have anything to say to them, so I shouldn't bother them until I have something to say." The problem being that I *never* have anything I think is important enough to say.
 
Age gaps...

So here's a thing about which I'd be interested in people's opinions. At the same time, I do realize this is a blog, not one of the advice sections, so if I don't get any responses that's fine too.

I want to make it clear... I am not judging anyone in this post, nor am I judging any specific behavior between/among consenting legal adults. Anything I say below is my opinion and perspective about this solely as relates to *me* and *my* choices and behavior, not about what other people do.

Age gaps.

I'm talking about the concept that "the person matters more than the age"; in other words, being open to relationships and/or sex with *people* who are legal consenting adults, regardless of how old they are, rather than thinking "oh, they're only 27 and I'm 46, so that isn't okay even though we get along great, we click, and they're obviously interested."

Power imbalance, whether actual or perceived, is a huge issue for me. I'm an abuse and molestation survivor, a former middle school and high school teacher, and the parent of two just-barely-adults. To me, because of all that, it's difficult for me not to see someone in their 20s, particularly early to mid-20s, as still being a child, and therefore to me, someone, say, my age having sex with someone that age, whether just sex or in the context of a relationship, carries an inherent power imbalance. (The same power imbalance might exist between, say, someone who's 46 and someone who's 65, but I think the difference in life experience and maturity is usually less between a 46 and 65 year old than between a 46 and 27 year old.)

On OKC and other sites, I generally won't even answer messages from guys who are more than 10 years younger than me. My comfort zone as far as age gaps is more like 5 years or fewer. But recently, at the club I've mentioned going to, on separate occasions I chatted with, clicked with, and "played" with two guys who were in their mid-20s. One told me he was 27; I don't know the other's age but I estimate about 25. (A note about the club: I don't "play" with ANYONE there without a considerable amount of conversation first, and if I don't feel any connection to them, I don't play at all. I'd rather come home and use my vibrator than have sex with someone if there's no connection or communication.)

I didn't feel at the time like I was taking advantage of either of them. Each of them initiated, and I chose to go along with it because, to be honest, it was flattering that a hot younger guy was interested in getting naked with me. I wasn't thinking "this is a guy in his 20s," I was thinking "He's really funny and attractive, and I'm having a great time talking to him, and hey, he wants to fuck me, so why not?"

But since those occasions, I'm having trouble wrapping my head around the idea that I didn't do anything wrong by getting sexual with guys in their 20s, despite my own age. I feel like I did something predatory and disgusting, and at this point in time I'm not sure I'll be going to the club again at all because of it.

At the same time... objectively, I'm pretty sure I didn't do anything wrong. And the club is fun. I don't go necessarily to play or fuck, though that's enjoyable if it happens, but 2 of the 4 times I went, I didn't do anything naked with anyone. I just hung out, danced, chatted, and went home. It's a social, get-out-of-the-house thing. It's also a way for me to explore my own sexuality in a safe, sex-positive setting, and when I've gone, I've mostly felt really confident and powerful. I don't think it makes sense to reject the possibility of going back, when there are several benefits to doing so, solely because I'm hung up about chronological ages.

Mostly, I think--objectively--that as long as care is taken to avoid power imbalances, and as long as everyone's on the same page, there isn't really anything wrong with age gaps between consenting adults. But *emotionally* I'm really struggling with it as relates specifically to myself, because since I've been a victim, I don't want to risk victimizing anyone else, even unintentionally.
 
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Ah! But do they have something to say? The advice always is that people like to talk about themselves if given a sympathetic audience. Facebook lets you know what people think is most interesting in their life at any time so you comment on what they have said. Just like here. An exchange of sentences might ensue. If people mention something you could help them with you could offer to help. Helping people is a good way to not be self conscious, as you found at karaoke night.

Leetah
 
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That's a good idea; I hadn't thought of it that way. I was thinking in terms of starting a conversation, but spinning off of something they've already said would cut out the awkwardness of "how do I start off".
 
In reference to my post about age gaps yesterday, I wanted to clarify one thing that I think might have come out wrong...

When I say it's hard for me not to see someone in their early 20s as a child, I mean *relative to myself*, not in general. There are a number of people in that age group who are, if anything, more mature and better at "adulting" than I am. So seeing them "as a child" refers only to comparing their *ages* to mine, specifically when it comes to anything sexual.

I think I just made that more confusing rather than less, but I know we have some folks on these forums who are in their 20s, and I don't want to offend anyone. (Someone I was talking to in real life about this yesterday kinda pitched a fit when I said I see people that age as children; they said I was being insulting and disrespectful. Which isn't my intention.)
 
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