First Poly Relationship, Metamour Troubles

BWLee

New member
I have a slightly longer story with some questions mixed in because it would be great to get some feedback. This is first poly relationship after all. In the beginning I had this poly dream about getting along very well with my metamour. I started a relationship with a man that had another partner for a few years prior to us. At this point we've been together for over a year and my metamour fantasy came crashing down to reality from almost the beginning. But I'm going to leave the past in the past and focus on the current problem(s).

Recently my partner was with his other partner. They are long distance and try to spend time together when they can. It's generally a few weeks here and there every 5-7 weeks. A few days ago while on my way to work, I receive a text message from her explaining how she had, without his knowledge, gone through him and my text messages. A few weeks worth. In a few minutes, probably longer, of desperation and insecurity she had gone through specifically our messages to each other while he was out trying to catch him in a lie because, as she explained later, she felt that he was being distant and not forthcoming about something, she just wasn't sure what. Now, I did my best to be understanding while at the same time straight forward with her that what she did violated my privacy, my partner's privacy, and the privacy we share as a couple. I won't lie, she caught him lying to her about having asked me to an event before discussing with it to her first (this is an entirely different issue), and worse than that I went along with the lie because I thought it would be best in the long run if she was able to be honest in regards to her feels about me going. She has a tendency to say we/he puts her in situations where all she can do is say yes. There is a history here I don't have time to get into.

When my partner found out he was extremely upset. Due to that incident he ended up coming back a day early. It wasn't until later in the week he was in a place where we could have dinner and talk. After dinner we went back to his place to spend the night. While we were spending time together I kept thinking that I was hearing his phone go off. And when I eventually checked my phone before bed I saw multiple missed calls and text messages from her saying things like how he needs to call her immediately and such. I let him know and he calls her back. When he returns from the phone call he tells me that I have to leave. That she said if I stay the night she would break up with him because he didn't tell her prior that I was staying over, despite the fact that they hadn't spoken in a few days.

Now, here are my questions...

- What are people's feels on snooping in poly? Because I'm a firm believer that snooping is not okay under any circumstances other than if someone goes missing or something like that. I'm still fairly new to poly and am concerned that maybe my expectations are off.

- We do not have a primary/secondary poly structure. What are people's experiences with ultimatums like the one I mentioned? On one hand, I'm deeply upset with him to have made that choice that ended up with me walking home alone in the middle of the night, but on the other hand I don't know what I would do if someone gave me that ultimatum. And I'm upset with her for having put him and then me in that situation. How am I supposed to feel about this?

- Despite feeling violated by her snooping, and then her wanting an apology from me for the part I played in the lying, and then giving him an ultimatum, I am still trying to be understanding to what she might be going through. Most of me thinks her reading those text messages only hurt her more. Would you have been as understanding or how do you react when a boundary is crossed?

- I enjoy seeing my partner happy and love knowing he's having a good time. Even if that means I'm not involved. Is it too much to ask that my metamour be happy for us when it comes to milestones and such that come up in our relationship?
 
- What are people's feels on snooping in poly? Because I'm a firm believer that snooping is not okay under any circumstances other than if someone goes missing or something like that. I'm still fairly new to poly and am concerned that maybe my expectations are off.
Agreed, however some people (typically those who start poly-ing as an established couple) make the opposite assumption; that absolutely everything is to be shared. Once I discovered this I made it part of my informal "do I want to get involved with you?" first date chat, and finding out that I'd be expected to have no privacy is a dealbreaker. Snooping without an agreement that it's ok to do so may be due to unstated expectations about what the default agreement is, but you're within your rights to put your foot down about it.

- We do not have a primary/secondary poly structure. What are people's experiences with ultimatums like the one I mentioned? On one hand, I'm deeply upset with him to have made that choice that ended up with me walking home alone in the middle of the night, but on the other hand I don't know what I would do if someone gave me that ultimatum. And I'm upset with her for having put him and then me in that situation. How am I supposed to feel about this?
In my world, the person who issues the ultimatum is the one who is shown the door, but that's not something I can insist on my partners doing if they're the one given the choice. All I can do is make decisions about my behaviour in response to theirs. If he kicks me out of the house in the middle of the night I'm probably not coming back.

- Despite feeling violated by her snooping, and then her wanting an apology from me for the part I played in the lying, and then giving him an ultimatum, I am still trying to be understanding to what she might be going through. Most of me thinks her reading those text messages only hurt her more. Would you have been as understanding or how do you react when a boundary is crossed?
You need to disengage from her. You're not in a relationship with her, so stop letting her take up room in your head. That said, if you're helping him engage in what you know to be unethical behaviour you should stop.

- I enjoy seeing my partner happy and love knowing he's having a good time. Even if that means I'm not involved. Is it too much to ask that my metamour be happy for us when it comes to milestones and such that come up in our relationship?
As above, it doesn't matter if she's happy for you or not; you're not in a relationship with her, so ask him to stop talking about her and move on. If he's unable to be a good partner to you because of something in his relationship with her that's on him, not on her.
 
Some thoughts upfront. You seem to be fine with your partner's unethical behavior with her and even enabling it. You are blaming her for the consequences of it.
  • You see that she violated your privacy, but you seem to miss seeing that the direct trigger for the violation was a lie told to her by your partner and she caught the lie in the messages. So in that sense, while it wronged you, it was a protective action she took for herself. A lying partner is basically mental abuse. I wouldn't judge someone very harshly for protecting themselves in any manner they can. I do agree that it brought her more hurt by confirming her fears and it violated your privacy as well.
  • Not only do you not blame your partner for lying to her or putting your private communication at risk of such invasive scrutiny as a result of it (she could just as well have demanded to see the messages while calling out his lying and it would still violate your privacy), you lied to cover up for him. Perhaps you see here why she spied rather than ask you for the straight truth either?
  • You are angry with your partner for sending you home late night, but you don't appear to have a problem with the reason he had to send you home - concealing your visit in violation of an agreement with her.

Your partner comes across as a sloppy hinge with her. Also frankly, someone who is engaging in emotional abuse, where he complies just enough with her to keep her from breaking off (sending you home) but doesn't do her the respect of honesty in the relationship. You appear to be fine with this for reasons you should examine.

  1. Do you see him being straight with you but concealing things from her as a sign of your relationship mattering more to him?
  2. Can you be certain he is being straight with you? Lying is a behavioral trait, not relationship trait. If a person uses lies to get out of inconvenient conversations, he can use lies to get out of inconvenient conversations with anyone.

I am concerned that you are not just accepting wrong behavior from your partner, you are colluding with it. Yes, your privacy was violated, but you are also not being honest for you to be someone who can be asked straight up.

I am also surprised that this post is about your discontent with her - who owes you nothing rather than your partner who has put you in a position of indignity by involving you in his deceit with someone else.

I won't lie, she caught him lying to her about having asked me to an event before discussing with it to her first (this is an entirely different issue), and worse than that I went along with the lie because I thought it would be best in the long run if she was able to be honest in regards to her feels about me going. She has a tendency to say we/he puts her in situations where all she can do is say yes.

Let me get this right. She caught him lying. You went along with the lie because you thought the result of the lie would be best for her. You call it her "tendency to say" that you/he put her in situations where all she can do is agree - implying that she is inclined to say that when it may not be true. Right after saying that you lied to her in order to make her think in a certain way. You probably need to examine what you do against what you are claiming.

After dinner we went back to his place to spend the night. While we were spending time together I kept thinking that I was hearing his phone go off. And when I eventually checked my phone before bed I saw multiple missed calls and text messages from her saying things like how he needs to call her immediately and such. I let him know and he calls her back. When he returns from the phone call he tells me that I have to leave. That she said if I stay the night she would break up with him because he didn't tell her prior that I was staying over, despite the fact that they hadn't spoken in a few days.

If he was supposed to tell her before spending time with you and didn't, then he is the cause of your awkward eviction. You seem to be excusing his behavior saying that they hadn't spoken in a few days. In the age of the internet and mobile phones and text messages. If he had something to tell her, he could have told her. He did not tell her.

When she reacted badly, he could have accepted his mistake, but refused to let you suffer for his actions. He chose to ask you to leave in order that the partner he was already abusing does not leave. Essentially, your partner made you take his punishment for his actions (likely after the sex was done). Your partner took the easy way by asking you to leave.

He is making you feel more important than her by lying and concealing things from her that you know about. He is making her feel more important than you by giving her the power to remove you from his premises immediately. And you are blaming her, instead of the person playing both of you against each other and being fair to neither.

- What are people's feels on snooping in poly? Because I'm a firm believer that snooping is not okay under any circumstances other than if someone goes missing or something like that. I'm still fairly new to poly and am concerned that maybe my expectations are off.

It is one of the things people do either if they are abusive or if they believe they are being lied to. It is a grey area. Your or my opinion on it will not change the fact that they do it. If the snooping results in a lie being caught, it sort of becomes a justification in hindsight. It is a violation, sure. But if it is based on a reasonable suspicion that is verified by the snooping and exposes a deliberate wrong committed, it is whistleblowing. That motive and result is the difference between surveillance and whistleblowing.

- We do not have a primary/secondary poly structure. What are people's experiences with ultimatums like the one I mentioned? On one hand, I'm deeply upset with him to have made that choice that ended up with me walking home alone in the middle of the night, but on the other hand I don't know what I would do if someone gave me that ultimatum. And I'm upset with her for having put him and then me in that situation. How am I supposed to feel about this?

When I felt I was being emotionally abused by a relationship Spexy had got into, I all but put it into plain words that that relationship has to end. Unlike your case, it actually ended. Or I'd have walked out. Though in our case, I suppose we are each other's primaries. I think this question of yours is focused on the wrong target. Your partner's relationship with her is between them. If he was supposed to tell her when he was with you and did not, she is well within her rights to insist that rules be followed or she will walk out. Your PARTNER behaved horrendously with you by kicking you out into the night to fix a problem HIS actions had created. But you apparently seem to be fine with him acting in an irresponsible manner.

- Despite feeling violated by her snooping, and then her wanting an apology from me for the part I played in the lying, and then giving him an ultimatum, I am still trying to be understanding to what she might be going through. Most of me thinks her reading those text messages only hurt her more. Would you have been as understanding or how do you react when a boundary is crossed?

In my case, the other woman not just read my private messages to Spexy, she misunderstood them without having the context of our relationship and proceeded to say some very ugly things about me on the basis of that. I was furious with Spexy for not ensuring that our privacy was protected from the results of her stupidity. Though by then he had screwed up so badly that all the furious ran into each other and frankly I don't know how much exactly was about the snooping. Now that I'm calmer, I think it is absurd to guard your phone from a lover. If you can't trust them around your phone, how could you trust them around your heart? There has to be trust and there may be the occasional situation when that trust is broken because of a larger problem. I understood that she was feeling equally hurt and desperate and trying to find some measure of reality by reading the picture that went on out of her sight. I didn't like it, but I understood why she felt she had to do it. I did call her out on the things she said about me, but that ended well with a vague mutual respect, though I didn't really like her behavior about other things. Overall, I think I took it philosophically. I'm the sort to think that if I love Spexy and he loves her, then her actions when upset aren't as big a deal as her being upset. How can I help?

- I enjoy seeing my partner happy and love knowing he's having a good time. Even if that means I'm not involved. Is it too much to ask that my metamour be happy for us when it comes to milestones and such that come up in our relationship?

But your metamor isn't unhappy that you are having a good time with your partner. She is unhappy that she is being lied to and you are an accomplice.

I'll go out on a limb here and say that your partner is basically playing both of you against each other and while he hurts her with dishonesty, he has trained you to blame her for all his failures against you. This is not a healthy person to be around and unless you can learn to not be manipulated into blaming people who owe you nothing for your hurt and in effect let the person who did hurt you off the hook, you will not be able to be very happy, because this appears to be a person not bothered about the hurt he causes others, and while his other partner is dealing with it through ultimatums, you are basically left helpless against him.
 
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In response to your deleted post, there's no need to establish that "treat me badly and I'm out" is a rule at the beginning of a new relationship. If the person I'm with needs to be told not to be an abusive arse then they're not someone I want in my life and no amount of "changing the terms of a relationship" will fix that. His loss, not mine.
 
I think anamikanon had it right. Your metamour was lied to by your partner. She was trying to come to learn to trust him again perhaps (or perhaps not, I'm not certain where she was in her healing process), but then he broke another boundary almost immediately by having you over.

This sucks for you because she's lashing out and hurting you. Forcing you to walk home in the middle of the night shows very little regard for you and it hurts.

Doesn't sound like your fault or your mess. He's lied to her, and I presume she confronted him with the lie and he lied again, then she broke into his phone (bad on her, I know), found indisputable proof of a lie and is flipping out. She's probably gone a little crazy, then finds out he's broken another boundary with having you over.

My suggestion is to see this as a him vs her issue. Step back. Let them sort out their relationship. If they can forgive each other and build trust again between them, hopefully things will settle. The fact that in her opinion you were complicit in the act of lying probably feels from her point of view that you two are ganging up on her. She probably feels like a third wheel and needs validation from the hinge that she is not.

Hope things settle for you soon. It doesn't sound like a good situation to be in.

Get better soon,
Shaya.
 
Some thoughts upfront. You seem to be fine with your partner's unethical behavior with her and even enabling it. You are blaming her for the consequences of it.
  • You see that she violated your privacy, but you seem to miss seeing that the direct trigger for the violation was a lie told to her by your partner and she caught the lie in the messages. So in that sense, while it wronged you, it was a protective action she took for herself. A lying partner is basically mental abuse. I wouldn't judge someone very harshly for protecting themselves in any manner they can. I do agree that it brought her more hurt by confirming her fears and it violated your privacy as well.
  • Not only do you not blame your partner for lying to her or putting your private communication at risk of such invasive scrutiny as a result of it (she could just as well have demanded to see the messages while calling out his lying and it would still violate your privacy), you lied to cover up for him. Perhaps you see here why she spied rather than ask you for the straight truth either?
  • You are angry with your partner for sending you home late night, but you don't appear to have a problem with the reason he had to send you home - concealing your visit in violation of an agreement with her.



  1. Do you see him being straight with you but concealing things from her as a sign of your relationship mattering more to him?
  2. Can you be certain he is being straight with you? Lying is a behavioral trait, not relationship trait. If a person uses lies to get out of inconvenient conversations, he can use lies to get out of inconvenient conversations with anyone.

Amen. A thousand likes.

When someone lies to me and it's impacting my life, yes, I will find out the truth. I have a huge problem with people who lie to and gaslight others--which is downright abusive--and then get up on their high horse about 'snooping.'

Anaminkanon makes many great points about lying. I suggest re-reading her post several times a day until it sinks in. You took part in lying to this woman. Lying to people is not nice.

I divorced XH, ended a marriage of over 20 years, because he wouldn't stop lying to me. I broke up with XBF in part because he wanted to lie to cover up his wife's games instead of just tell me the truth. Most people don't take kindly to being lied to.
 
TL;DR for my post above:

She is paying for his actions against you by taking the brunt of your anger caused by his actions.

You are paying for his actions against her by facing the consequences in his place.

He is hurting both of you and deflecting the resulting anger/consequences at the other partner.
 
Hey,

How are you doing? We've all pretty much said the same thing, but how does that make you feel? Do you think this is helping or do you feel were being judgemental based on incomplete information?

This forum can be like that. We try to help but can only see your situation through the window you paint us in a few short paragraphs. Sometimes we interpret things wrongly. If you feel this is so, please let us know and we can try to give more appropriate advice.

Hope you're feeling better,
Shaya.
 
Hi BWLee,

Sorry to hear your metamour is acting so crappy. It was crappy of her to snoop into your messages, it was crappy of her to drop an ultimatum, it is crappy of her not to extend you any compersion. And there's not a lot you can do about it, other than distancing yourself from her. Sorry you have to do that.

Sincerely,
Kevin T.
 
I see things a little differently. Meta seems a bit controlling. I couldn't be with someone who allows their partner to control our relationship.

Anybody who gave me that ultimatum would be told to fuck off. Anybody who allowed their partner to give an ultimatum like that would be told to fuck off.

Snooping is bad. I can see it if you suspect someone of lying...BUT...don't put your partner in a situation of having to lie. Putting crazy rules on a partner will cause them to do that.

Your meta is trying to exercise couple's privilege. She wants to control your partner's relationships. I can't imagine being in a relationship where I had to ask permission for anything. Your partner needs to stand up to this, or your relationship will be fraught with nothing but problems.
 
Vinsanity, I didn't quite get where you got all this personal information about couple's privilege and unrealistic rules and so on about the nature of the relationship between OP's partner and metamor. Is there another thread with a backgrounder that I missed?

Only rule I spotted was telling the metamor when he was with OP. That sounds fairly normal for a lot of people who don't get called crazy here. OP describes the metamor as a long distance relationship. I don't undersand where the couples privilege thing came from either. Simply came across as her insisting that he follow their agreement or she was out - which sounds fairly normal also if agreements are broken between partners. Didn't realize metamor was the primary. Not mentioned in this thread.
 
I think the meta sounds controlling, too. Maybe because I was on the receiving end of the controlling at the beginning of my poly experience? I do think the hinge and BWLee screwed up by lying to the meta...but I also thought it was weird that the meta had to be consulted before asking BWLee to the event? (Obviously we're missing the back story there.) And, going through someone's text messages, emails, etc, is not cool in my book. If you can't trust the person enough to not snoop, then maybe you shouldn't be in the relationship with them, jmho. The hinge needs to man up, be honest with meta, and stop jerking BWLee around. Sending her home in the middle of the night just to appease meta was a jerk move.

ETA: The more I think about it, the more I think hinge is the problem. Meta can only control what hinge allows her to control.
 
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Vinsanity, I didn't quite get where you got all this personal information about couple's privilege and unrealistic rules and so on about the nature of the relationship between OP's partner and metamor. Is there another thread with a backgrounder that I missed?

Only rule I spotted was telling the metamor when he was with OP. That sounds fairly normal for a lot of people who don't get called crazy here. OP describes the metamor as a long distance relationship. I don't undersand where the couples privilege thing came from either. Simply came across as her insisting that he follow their agreement or she was out - which sounds fairly normal also if agreements are broken between partners. Didn't realize metamor was the primary. Not mentioned in this thread.

I read the OP. Clearly meta and partner are an established couple. The fact that it is LDR is irrelevant there. The OP says there isn't a primary/secondary structure, but the meta sure isn't acting that way.

I think the requirement to discuss whether or not the partner is allowed to ask OP to an event amounts to way more than just letting the meta know if they are together. Same with the ultimatum. Why is it the meta's business to know every little single thing OP and partner do together? You really don't see any issue there?

For what it's worth, I don't see any indication that he is abusive. I do think he is handling the problems with the meta poorly. I'm not entirely convinced meta is totally on board with poly. I think the LDR adds to her insecurity and jealousy. The reason I call it couple's privilege is because she is expecting the partner to conform to her rules without regard for OP...and he let her.
 
- What are people's feels on snooping in poly? Because I'm a firm believer that snooping is not okay under any circumstances other than if someone goes missing or something like that. I'm still fairly new to poly and am concerned that maybe my expectations are off.
Snooping is a violation. Lying, especially conspiracy, is also a violation. So, probably at least two people's expectations have been disappointed here. Take a hard look at your firm beliefs, and figure out when and why you make exceptions to these values -- you seem to excuse your own lies, but not her snooping, when clearly (as others have pointed out) her snooping confirmed her reasonable suspicions. You kinda gotta hold everyone to the same standard.

- We do not have a primary/secondary poly structure. What are people's experiences with ultimatums like the one I mentioned? On one hand, I'm deeply upset with him to have made that choice that ended up with me walking home alone in the middle of the night, but on the other hand I don't know what I would do if someone gave me that ultimatum. And I'm upset with her for having put him and then me in that situation. How am I supposed to feel about this?
You feel how you feel. No "supposed to" about it. You are supposed to be honest (especially with yourself!) about your feelings, and sort out the kinds of hurt and the needs that were violated, so you can ask for what you want and get it or leave the relationship.

Out of curiosity, Did you know about the rule as you were preparing to spend the night there, before their phone call? If so ... Has the rule been in place for the year-plus you've been in this relationship? Did *you* consider it reasonable for him to ignore a standing rule because they "hadn't spoken in a few days"? I mean, it wasn't like they were suddenly not in the relationship that had the rule. How would you feel if your rules went out the window when you and your partner were having a bit of a rough patch? Are you completely sure your upset isn't partly guilt at conspiring with him to break a rule he has with her?

Maybe you didn't know about the rule. Then shame on him for breaking it and making you suffer. Shame to the point of breaking up, if I were the person walking home that night. But you do you.

FWIW, I'm no fan of vetoes and rules that directly affect a metamour in that way. His sending you home was a shit move, her commanding him to send you home was a shit move, and her letting you stay would've been him putting her in a situation where she "had to say 'yes'." I'm having a little trouble understanding how the three of you stay together with all this lying and controlling going on, but I'm probably extrapolating too much. Back to how you feel.

- Despite feeling violated by her snooping, and then her wanting an apology from me for the part I played in the lying, and then giving him an ultimatum, I am still trying to be understanding to what she might be going through. Most of me thinks her reading those text messages only hurt her more. Would you have been as understanding or how do you react when a boundary is crossed?
No one crossed a boundary. She breached a limit. Your boundary is whether or not you stay in a relationship (or meta relationship) with someone who didn't respect that limit. Empathy is a great approach, but don't just use it to decide if you will forgive the snooping. Try to understand how your meta feels about everything else -- the lying, the conspiracy, the rule breaking. Would you be willing to quit doing the stuff that hurts her, regardless of the snooping?

- I enjoy seeing my partner happy and love knowing he's having a good time. Even if that means I'm not involved. Is it too much to ask that my metamour be happy for us when it comes to milestones and such that come up in our relationship?
Yeah. Her feelings are her feelings. What do you want from her in recognition of "milestones and such"? A card and flowers? Why do you think your relationship milestones should have any meaning in her life?
 
Totally resonate with this post. Particularly :

Out of curiosity, Did you know about the rule as you were preparing to spend the night there, before their phone call? If so ...

and

Your boundary is whether or not you stay in a relationship (or meta relationship) with someone who didn't respect that limit. Empathy is a great approach, but don't just use it to decide if you will forgive the snooping. Try to understand how your meta feels about everything else -- the lying, the conspiracy, the rule breaking. Would you be willing to quit doing the stuff that hurts her, regardless of the snooping?

I think a lot of reflection is called for.
 
I read the OP. Clearly meta and partner are an established couple. The fact that it is LDR is irrelevant there. The OP says there isn't a primary/secondary structure, but the meta sure isn't acting that way.

I think the requirement to discuss whether or not the partner is allowed to ask OP to an event amounts to way more than just letting the meta know if they are together. Same with the ultimatum. Why is it the meta's business to know every little single thing OP and partner do together? You really don't see any issue there?

For what it's worth, I don't see any indication that he is abusive. I do think he is handling the problems with the meta poorly. I'm not entirely convinced meta is totally on board with poly. I think the LDR adds to her insecurity and jealousy. The reason I call it couple's privilege is because she is expecting the partner to conform to her rules without regard for OP...and he let her.

I think you are projecting your life experiences onto this story. There is no actual indication for a lot of your assumptions here.
 
I think you are projecting your life experiences onto this story. There is no actual indication for a lot of your assumptions here.

That the meta and partner are an established couple is stated in the OP. Meta having the "tell me ahead or send her home" veto does suggest that meta claims some of what's often considered primary relationship privilege, despite LDR.

I don't see Vinsanity0 making any more specific assumptions than anyone else. None of his guesses sound too far off to me.
 
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