Options for Communication with Meta in Vee

BookwormGirl

New member
tl;dr After a rough year and starting off on a bad foot, how do I go forward as the arm of a Vee - continue to try to build a relationship with meta, or just focus on my relationship with hinge?

I have been in a relationship with Bowler for just over a year. We are very much in love. He is my only relationship at this time - I work long hours and have primary custody of two teen boys. After six months of dating I relocated an hour away, so we are now in an awkward place between local and long distance (90 minute drive home to home, I work near my home, he works in the middle). I am happy with the frequency of our time together (one date a week, one or two more a month if possible). We talk about our future and that we want more, some day. This is my first polyamorous relationship.

Bowler has been married to Blondie for 21 years, they were high school sweethearts. They started swinging a few years ago and it was rough going at times. She fell in love with the husband of a couple they were dating and Bowler handled it very, very badly. Six months after that Veto he meets me - admittedly unicorn hunting, although I didn't even know what a unicorn was at the time. He was honest about his marriage from day one, and I met Blondie within the first two weeks. Bowler and I fell hard and fast, and in my naivety about poly/swinging, I fell into a pattern of doing whatever I could to please Blondie so she would accept me in his life (and, at the time, in their bed). I didn't know at the time, but they had "rules" about not falling in love again - only swinging, just sex, no feelings. "Protect your heart". He blew through that boundary with me.

It has been a rough year. She has tried to veto a few times, and he has refused. She has dated a few men along the way, but never for long, and really only as a swinger. When she's got her own NRE things are smoother, but there is constant tension. We started off from a giant place of miscommunication and broken boundaries and we've been struggling to come back from that for a year now. We have had sporadic three-ways, when things were good - but I came to the conclusion that I couldn't handle the ups and downs of a FWB relationship with her while dealing with how significantly she struggles with and resents his relationship with me. We have tried socializing together as a Vee, everything from karaoke with friends, to a baseball game, to a movie night at their house, and it always ends with someone's feelings being hurt.

She tells me constantly that she is extremely threatened by me. We have tried to be friends (even socializing occasionally without Bowler). It's awkward. When she is in a bad place in her head, her texts to me can be incredibly hurtful. I initiated a break up with Bowler about 6 months into our relationship when I realized how much pain our relationship was causing Blondie- but we talked it through and he asked me to trust him to be a good hinge and to take care of his wife, that it is not my responsibility. I still struggle with this, especially when she calls me sobbing or texts me that she feels disposable, replaceable, and has been depressed for a year. They have three children, a 20+ year relationship, she sleeps next to him every night, has every holiday... I can not wrap my head around how I am a threat. She is in such a place of privilege, and I am trying, trying, trying to show her that and be the best metamour I can be. Her negativity toward me is putting a huge strain on their marriage, which breaks my heart.

I've learned a lot in the last year, but I still have so much to learn. I have read that a Vee can survive without a relationship, or even communication, between the two arms. I need some help understanding how that would work. If I need something from her, how do I ask for that, without it becoming triangulation? (For example, she has some unclear rules about what he and I can do and where we can go. She doesn't want us to "replicate" anything they have done that is important to her, OR do anything new they haven't done... leaving us in a state of constant questioning about where we can go and what we can do. I dealt with it for the first year, but I'm now at the point where it feels unreasonable). I feel like the only defense I have against their immense couple privilege is an open line of communication with Blondie. But any time I mention how their privilege affects me she gets furious.

It has been a rollercoaster of a year. I want to solve the problems, I want to improve the communication, and I absolutely do not want to break up a 20+ year marriage. I want us all to be happy.

I look forward to any insight you can give me. I have been reading and reading and reading, learning and learning and learning.

Thank you,
BookwormGirl

Girlfriend to Bowler (1 year)
Metamour to Blondie, Bowler's Wife
 
Hi BookwormGirl,

It sounds like Blondie is dead set against you having any kind of relationship with Bowler. I know you don't want to give up on that relationship, but Blondie is always going to be a problem. Bowler has set a bad example about how to handle a poly situation, and Blondie is following suit. She has made it clear that she doesn't want you in the picture; she has even tried to veto you. I know you don't want to break up with Bowler, but you need to realize that your relationship with him will continue to cause her problems.

Sorry I do not have any easier answers for you.
Sincerely,
Kevin T.
 
You need to set your own boundaries, and stick to them.

Your boundaries are about what you will or won't put up with. They're not rules you try to impose on others, they're a statement to yourself about how you'll react to certain situations. If she calls crying you aren't obliged to stay on the phone. You can ask her to stop texting, and if she keeps doing it anyway, you don't have to read them.

There is no reason you need to twist yourself into knots trying to avoid activities Blondie doesn't want Bowler to do with anyone else; that's his responsibility to keep track of, not yours. All you need to do is suggest an activity and let him work out if it's something he can do within the bounds of his agreement with his wife. You have no agreement with her. He does.

Bowler said he would act as a good hinge and take care of Blondie, but he's not doing it. Your problem is with him not putting in the effort to keep both his relationships functional, then expecting you to pick up the slack.
 
Thank you, Kevin, for your honesty. I think you're absolutely correct. She is not okay with our relationship; although she claims to be "working" on it, I see no evidence of that work. She makes the same comments and takes the same actions over and over, apologizes when it hurts me or Bowler, and then wash, rinse, repeat.

I know you don't want to break up with Bowler, but you need to realize that your relationship with him will continue to cause her problems.

So, I guess what I need to do, is search myself and decide if 1. I am willing to give up a relationship that is bringing Bowler and I joy because it is making her unhappy, and 2. If I am willing to put up with the drama of her disapproval and rules if I do not initiate the transition/break-up.

Number 1 feels like a moral or ethical question. Can I participate in something knowing that it is causing someone else pain? Is it my job to mitigate that pain, or is it Bowler's (and Blondie's)?

Number 2 feels like some sort of messed up pro-con list. How much happiness and love makes the drama and misery worthwhile?

I do wonder if I just stop all communication with Blondie if they will figure out a way to work it out themselves. I wonder if I can extract myself from their relationship while still keeping my relationship with Bowler. People make that work, right?
 
Emm - Thank you. I really need to remember this:

Bowler said he would act as a good hinge and take care of Blondie, but he's not doing it. Your problem is with him not putting in the effort to keep both his relationships functional, then expecting you to pick up the slack.

It's his job, isn't it. He needs to figure out what she needs and wants and make it work. I HAVE TO STOP trying to fix everything.

He wants the one-big-happy-family. I need to stop trying to provide that. If she wasn't his wife, I would have stopped communicating with her long ago to protect myself.
 
I would say that it is not on you whether their marriage breaks up. That is entirely their purview. Even if you were to say to Bowler "Her or me" it would still not be your decision who he would choose. Taking yourself out of the picture would not fix them.

Now, whether taking yourself out of the picture would help you or not is your purview. Determining who you want a relationship with only you can decide. What you have to give and what you need to get, and not get, from a relationship is on you to figure out. If you and Bowler cannot match on important issues then forcing it will not work long term.

Right now the things for you to decide seem to be,

-Considering her behavior, how much interaction do you want with Blondie? My impression is that you want little or no contact until she gets a handle on her emotions about you.

- How much do you want to hear from Bowler about his interactions with her? Again little or nothing as hearing about her meltdowns doesn't make your life better.

- How much of your relationship do you want subject to rules you have no input on? Not much.

You and Bowler can discuss if your needs match what the other person can offer. If he cannot offer a relationship where you are not in contact with Blondie and she is not micromanaging your activities, then you do not match in a pretty important
way.

Leetah
 
Hi BookwormGirl,

Based on what I've read in this thread so far, I would advise you to cut off all contact with Blondie. It's not fair for Bowler to expect you to get all cozy with Blondie when she's acting that way.

Just some thoughts.
Sincerely,
Kevin T.
 
I am sorry you struggle.

I might be wrong. But I think you might be better off steering clear of this couple.

I didn't know at the time, but they had "rules" about not falling in love again - only swinging, just sex, no feelings. "Protect your heart". He blew through that boundary with me.

So they had agreements that affect you, and Bowler did not see fit to tell you about it. Then he broke his agreements.

She has tried to veto a few times, and he has refused.

So he had an agreement with her about vetoes... and he didn't honor those agreements either.

I initiated a break up with Bowler about 6 months into our relationship when I realized how much pain our relationship was causing Blondie- but we talked it through and he asked me to trust him to be a good hinge and to take care of his wife, that it is not my responsibility.

Doesn't sound like he is keeping that agreement either and he is taking care of his wife if she still keeps on pestering you and continues miserable.

How do any of these agreements Bowler makes and later breaks make him an awesome, trustworthy partner? :confused:

I still struggle with this, especially when she calls me sobbing or texts me that she feels disposable, replaceable, and has been depressed for a year.

Bowler is not taking care of his wife like he said he would.

She is not taking care of herself. Depressed for year and she is not seeing a doctor or counselor? She's trying to turn YOU into her counselor? How's that appropriate? :confused:

You say you continue to struggle. What are you doing to remove yourself from the line of fire so you do not have to struggle?

  • You could change your phone number/block hers and stop answering the texts/phone calls from her.

  • You could stop seeing Bowler until he has his other relationship straightened out or they have broken up so the other relationship no longer applies.

You wanted to end it before for a reason. Sounds like he sweet talked you into not leaving. But nothing really changed. This time you could end it and let be ended.

He can look you up when he can date you in a drama free way. If that never comes to pass because he never deals with his Blondie relationship? Bummer, but you are at least free of all this drama and you have stepped OFF the misery merry-go-round where every spin is more of same. You do not sound like you are enjoying it.

Number 1 feels like a moral or ethical question. Can I participate in something knowing that it is causing someone else pain? Is it my job to mitigate that pain, or is it Bowler's (and Blondie's)?

It is your job to take care of YOU. You say you don't like this and struggle. You could bow out, remove yourself and end your part of the struggle.

I couldn't keep dating Bowler knowing that doing so was causing Blondie this much pain or ME so much struggle.

I value being drama free. I don't need the hassle. But that is me and you are you. You have to figure out where your values/ethics lie.

Number 2 feels like some sort of messed up pro-con list. How much happiness and love makes the drama and misery worthwhile?

That is exactly what it is. How's the pros/cons list add up when you step back to assess? Are you still having a good time here?
To me it sounds like the negatives outweigh the plus.

If you pick him out to date and he comes with a lot of baggage that upsets you? And he is doing nothing about lightening the load?

You are the one picking him out.

You don't have to keep on picking him. You could stop.

(For example, she has some unclear rules about what he and I can do and where we can go. She doesn't want us to "replicate" anything they have done that is important to her, OR do anything new they haven't done... leaving us in a state of constant questioning about where we can go and what we can do. I dealt with it for the first year, but I'm now at the point where it feels unreasonable).

It is unreasonable. If Bowler is not able to date you freely without a micromanager? Don't date him.

I feel like the only defense I have against their immense couple privilege is an open line of communication with Blondie. But any time I mention how their privilege affects me she gets furious.

The other thing you could do is to not deal with it.

Stop dating Bowler until he has either sorted it out with Blondie or they are not together. You don't have to be in the line the fire.


If she wasn't his wife, I would have stopped communicating with her long ago to protect myself.

I think you could protect yourself anyway. Even if she is his wife. Stop talking to her.

He wants the one-big-happy-family. I need to stop trying to provide that.

You are correct. Stop trying to provide that. She doesn't want to practice that model, and from the sound of it, neither do you. Why pretend?

Where is the pleasure in all this for you? :(

To me you and Blondie seem to be doing the same thing. You blame the Other Woman for whatever problems rather than seeing Bowler makes empty promises he doesn't keep. He is not holding up the sticks he said he would hold up.

Perhaps it is easier to blame the Other Woman like she has some weird spell over him that makes him do this stuff. Rather than to really look at that partner and accept THIS IS HOW HE IS.

There is a a certainly personality that GETS OFF on causing chaos and pain. To have 2 women fighting over him -- that's an ego trip. Is he that type of personality? He's in no hurry to solve anything because he gets off on this drama? :confused:

Galagirl
 
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So did I read it right that Bowler vetoed an outside relationship of hers, which she honored, but now that she tried to veto his, he refused? It really sounds like he wants her to follow a different set of rules than him. I can understand why she might be resentful and depressed. Not only did she have to give up someone she was in love with, now she has to watch her husband enjoy something he denied her.

But she really shouldn't take it out on you, she should be holding Bowler accountable for his crappy behavior.
 
So did I read it right that Bowler vetoed an outside relationship of hers, which she honored, but now that she tried to veto his, he refused?

Yes, and no. They did not have a veto agreement when she fell in love. Honestly, I don't think they had any agreements at that time, other than that they were allowed to have sex with other people, separately or together. When he found out she was in love, he threw a major tantrum and gave her an ultimatum - "Him or Me". Literally, divorce or break-up. Blondie chose to break up with the other couple to save their marriage. It was a super shitty thing for Bowler to do, and caused a big rift in their relationship.

When time passed, they talked through it and decided that ultimatums and vetos weren't okay. They decided to continue with an open marriage, dating and swinging but would "guard their hearts" and not fall in love again. And he broke that agreement with me.

Once Bowler fell in love and realized he could love both of us the way she had loved both him and the other guy (Ummmm, call him Professor), Bowler apologized again to Blondie, and reached out to Professor to apologize and talk through his new understanding. Professor was willing to give that relationship another try with the new understanding that there would be no ultimatums or vetos. It didn't work out with the two of them, unfortunately, and Professor ended it, which was very painful for Blondie.
 
(GalaGirl - I was so hoping you would read and reply! I have learned so much from your insight, your kind honesty, and your organized responses :D to so many posts. Thank you for your time and your thoughts.)

So they had agreements that affect you, and Bowler did not see fit to tell you about it. Then he broke his agreements.

Yep. As ridiculous as I think it is to have an agreement that you can date and have sex with people but not fall in love with them... that is what they had agreed upon. And he broke that agreement.

You are correct. Stop trying to provide that. She doesn't want to practice that model, and from the sound of it, neither do you. Why pretend?

Well, I think I would love to practice that model, unfortunately. I love the idea of big giant family dinners with lovers and husbands and wives and boyfriends and girlfriends, cuddle piles on bean bags, lots of communication and processing and learning and growing. I'm not ready for that, yet, though - I have 6 years until my boys are grown and I am not risking my custody agreement. And as much as Bowler and I have talked about a future with that kind of model, I am realizing that Blondie will almost definitely never want that. So if it is what I want, someday, I will have to seek it elsewhere.

You say you continue to struggle. What are you doing to remove yourself from the line of fire so you do not have to struggle?

For where I am in my life, dates once a week, very occasional overnights and daily texts or phone calls is, in fact, perfect. So if I can continue with THIS model, with this man, while removing myself from the line of fire by cutting off communication with Blondie, that is what I am going to try, first.

There is a a certainly personality that GETS OFF on causing chaos and pain. To have 2 women fighting over him -- that's an ego trip. Is he that type of personality? He's in no hurry to solve anything because he gets off on this drama? :confused:

I think... I hope... that he is just new to this, trying to figure out how to best communicate and meet our needs. So, I think, if I make an agreement with him that I am no longer willing to communicate with Blondie, no more attempts at the three of us socializing, and I ask him to not process their issues with me - I will find out if he is still interested in continuing our relationship with the drama removed.

To me you and Blondie seem to be doing the same thing. You blame the Other Woman for whatever problems rather than seeing Bowler makes empty promises he doesn't keep. He is not holding up the sticks he said he would hold up.

Yes. I HATE that I have come to feel this way about her. I got into something I didn't understand and that was not clearly defined, and I have been trying to use my communication and research skills (and decades of things I learned from personal and marriage counseling) to make the three of us okay. But I need to stop, because I am NOT a professional and I am personally involved! I can not be the "friend" she cries to when her husband hurts her.

I might be wrong. But I think you might be better off steering clear of this couple.

You are probably right. I will take the first step by ending communication with Blondie, and I will see where that leads.
 
Glad it helped some.

as much as Bowler and I have talked about a future with that kind of model, I am realizing that Blondie will almost definitely never want that. So if it is what I want, someday, I will have to seek it elsewhere.

With Blondie unwilling? And you wanting to cut communication off with Blondie to better protect yourself? I don't think you can have "family model poly" with this group of players. Glad you see that.

I think... I hope... that he is just new to this, trying to figure out how to best communicate and meet our needs. So, I think, if I make an agreement with him that I am no longer willing to communicate with Blondie, no more attempts at the three of us socializing, and I ask him to not process their issues with me - I will find out if he is still interested in continuing our relationship with the drama removed.

To me that is not an "agreement" where he gets input.

To me that is you setting a personal boundary. Personal boundaries are things that YOU set up for YOU to obey to help keep YOU safe. They define what you will and will not do. What you will and will not put up with.

I think you are on the right path. You could tell him that...

  • You are not willing to socialize as a trio.
    • If invited, you will decline. If "sprung" on you, you will go home. (All consequences YOU can do.)
  • You could tell Blondie you are not willing to process their issues with her. Blondie could talk to Bowler himself and/or seek a therapist.
    • If she calls or texts you, she can expect you not to answer. (A consequence YOU can do.)
  • You could tell Bowler you are not willing to process their issues with him. Bowler could talk to Blondie herself and/or seek a therapist.
    • If he asks you to process, he can expect you to decline. If he "springs it" on you, you will end the call/end the date/will walk out of the room. (All consequences YOU can do.)

You will find out quickly if he's a person who will also respect your boundaries, respect your need to be drama free, and attend to his problems appropriately and stop "dumping" them on you or not.

If he doesn't respect your boundaries? One consequence you can do is break up with him again and let stay broken up this time.

You are not the "bandaid" so he can "endure" his marriage. He could actually do the work to FIX his marriage or END it. Not use you as a crutch.

If he's after the ego trip of two women "fighting over him" -- you are not obligated to supply part of that. You can bow out and he can find another player for the role.

I hope things improve for you one way or another.

GL!

Galagirl
 
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Personally, I would never tolerate a third party like a metamour dictating to me where I can or cannot go or what I can or cannot do with a lover of mine, no matter that she is his wife. It is your relationship, not hers; she has no say in your sex life or social life. He is carrying out her orders, which is not very loving, respectful, nor considerate towards you - therefore, your issue is with him. And he's being a total wuss, IMHO. I would simply put all the focus on that and tell him in no uncertain terms that you will no longer abide by her demands and it will be up to him whether or not you can have a relationship with him on YOUR terms (do what you want, go where you want, etc.), not hers.

Then fucking walk away from this train wreck if he doesn't man up.

[or walk away now, because it already is a train wreck and all that drama doesn't seem worth the time and effort of trying to make it into something else]
 
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Been there, done that, got the Tshirt. It sucks, and I am sorry your meta is such a PitA. And, while I agree that your hinge is doing a poor job of hinging and needs to stand up to your meta for what he wants, the simple truth is that, as his legal wife, she can make things incredibly difficult for him.

A very similar scenario happened to me (it was one of my first posts here, if you want to dig around for it). Even when my partner was trying to be a good hinge, she made his life so intolerable at home, with family, etc. that being happy when he was with me was simply not realistic. I cut off all communication with her (we started as just her and I, moved to a triad--at her request, actually--and then she showed me who she really was, which was the opposite of a good person), including blocking her texts, etc., but it didn't matter. She would call him in the middle of the night when we were together with some "emergency" or another, which she generally created herself to get his attention, but he couldn't not go pull her out of a ditch (well, he could have, and frankly I'd have told anyone who did that crap to bugger off and call a tow truck; but, I do understand why calls like "I had an accident and am in a ditch" require response). There were a lot incidents, and despite him not talking to me about what was going on at his house during this time, it was pretty obvious it was really bad.

It got to be too much, all around. I broke it off with him. I loved him dearly, but the stress was making our relationship He later ended his marriage to her, but it was not because of me--it was because of her.

I found out, after he broke it off, all that had been going on in their marriage during that time, and I am still surprised he had the mental energy to stay with me as long as he did.

The shorter version of this is that good hinging is something he should work on, but realistically you meta can make things difficult enough that there's no amount of "good hinge work" that will make his life, and by extension yours, if your meta wants to go down that road. And, while you need to set your boundaries and stick to them, it's possibly--probable, I'd say, even--that she can still make him miserable enough to impact your relationship with him.

Hopefully I am wrong, but I think that you should consider distancing yourself from this, at least for a while, and taking care of you.
 
Thank you, all, for your insight. It has been a week since I last texted with Blondie and five days since I explained my (newly defined) personal boundaries to Bowler. It has actually been a lovely week. Only a week, but still... lovely. Bowler has respected my need to not interact with Blondie and to not process their issues with him. I think I was often the one asking for updates... "how is she, are things okay, are you having sex, is she happy, what do I need to do"... it was a terrible habit I had fallen into when I was trying to win her over. Stepping back and away from that dynamic has been a huge relief.

Personally, I would never tolerate a third party like a metamour dictating to me where I can or cannot go or what I can or cannot do with a lover of mine, no matter that she is his wife. It is your relationship, not hers; she has no say in your sex life or social life. He is carrying out her orders, which is not very loving, respectful, nor considerate towards you - therefore, your issue is with him. And he's being a total wuss, IMHO. I would simply put all the focus on that and tell him in no uncertain terms that you will no longer abide by her demands and it will be up to him whether or not you can have a relationship with him on YOUR terms (do what you want, go where you want, etc.), not hers.

I have also realized, after much introspection and thinking about what you all said, that it wasn't Blondie's "rules" that were upsetting me so much - it was the way Bowler was presenting them. He was telling me that HE absolutely wanted to do what I suggested (go to a certain restaurant, a strip club, plan a trip to a certain locale), but that we couldn't do it because Blondie would be SO PISSED, or because she told him that they can only go there/do that together. I told him I can respect that there are places that are important to their 20+ year relationship, but that he needs to OWN those choices. I need to hear him saying, "That is a really special place to my marriage - can we come up with another idea?". Such a shift in responsibility and attitude. You're right - he is totally being a wuss! He avoids conflict, hates to disappoint, and therefore was making her the bad-guy. I think this will be a difficult step for him to take, and time will tell, but he is willing to work on it, so I will give him a chance to make this change.
 
Glad the week has been better for you. Keep going with firmer boundaries!

He avoids conflict, hates to disappoint, and therefore was making her the bad-guy.

That is sloppy hinge stuff. I think it's a terrible way to treat Blondie, because she doesn't know she's being made out to the "bad guy." Does he also make you "the bad guy" when he talking to her? That would unknowingly add to why you and she sometimes clash.

I hope he improves in that area and firms it up so he's less sloppy.

Galagirl
 
So, its been a few weeks with no communication between Blondie and me. It has been a huge relief for me. Bowler and I talk about her in the context of his day and their family, but I feel much better able to have a positive relationship with him in this model. Earlier in the month she was out at a work party and I was at their home, and I was told that she would be fine if I was still there when she arrived home. However, I chose to leave before she got there.

He and I have had tomorrow blocked off to spend the day and night together for about a month. Earlier in the week, we discussed whether it would be an overnight or not - my parents are visiting, so it would require a hotel, which we were considering. Bowler told me Wednesday that Blondie thinks we should just stay at their home and she would get the kids out and go "fall asleep on her Dad's couch", or she would come home and stay downstairs. I thought it over, but decided I'm not comfortable with either of those scenarios, and we can just have our date and then go our separate ways, instead.

I got a text from Blondie today:

"If you truly think you can have a meaningful relationship with my husband by avoiding me you're wrong."

I asked Bowler if he knows what motivated that text. He says she is still upset with some of our pre-Thanksgiving communications and she was very hurt that I left their house when she was on her way home. Looking back, I know that I clarified my boundaries with HIM, but I did not communicate them clearly with HER. With that in mind, I think I need to reply to her text?

I drafted this:

"I'm trying to give us time and space. I'm hoping that parallel poly gives all of us the breathing room we need, for now. I want (Bowler) to be able to focus on his job as hinge. If this is not working for you, please tell me why and what you need."

Thoughts, please?

Thanks!
 
Personally, I wouldn't answer at all. Why do *you* need to communicate your boundaries to her when the intention was to put some distance between her and you? As far as I'm concerned, that's Bowler's job as hinge; in my opinion, he should be the one telling her, "BG isn't avoiding you, and my relationship with her isn't dependent on you."

Of course, I can be kinda harsh and bitchy when my boundaries are crossed, and I won't accept contact from a metamour unless I've previously expressed to our shared partner that it's okay for the metamour to approach me directly rather than through him. Since it sounds like you had a connection with Blondie previously, your situation is different from anything I would be involved with, so I'm giving advice from not having had the same kind of experience you've had.

But regardless, I would advise against replying to Blondie at all. You've talked to Bowler about it, and you've told him that you would prefer not to have contact with Blondie; it's up to him to help you enforce your boundary.
 
You clarified with him. It's his job to clarify with her. Now you are in a tough position. Not answering sends a very strong message. If you answer like you wrote above you will be drawn in.

Bowler told you what was behind it. Did he say what he was going to do to remedy this? I'm thinking not because you are asking about texting her yourself.
 
I prefer people deal with me directly. But not be telling me everything under the sun. Just the pertinent things.

"If you truly think you can have a meaningful relationship with my husband by avoiding me you're wrong."

This is some random announcement from the sky. It is direct. But it is not pertinent.

  • Actually, you CAN have a meaningful relationship with her husband because the people who creating meaning in that dynamic are (you + him.) She's not in that dynamic. So... why would you argue this "announcement" of what she is currently thinking? She's allowed to think whatever, even if erroneous.
  • If what she means is that you cannot have a meaningful dynamic as (you + him + her)... that is true. You aren't looking for a deep meaningful trio relationship. Not a concern for you. So.... why would you argue with this announcement?

It sounds like she's itching to have an argument. Don't fuel that. She can get her itch scratched elsewhere.

It is not an actual request. Like...

"I think you are avoiding me. Am I wrong in that impression? Did I do something? Could you be willing let me know? "​

THAT is asking a question and making a request.

Instead she's jumping to a conclusion (that you are avoiding her rather than you are taking better care of YOU) and then getting huffy pants about what she assumes. Works herself up (all that upset). Then she acts out her feelings and pokes you with text because she decided you are doing things to her. Now she has to "defend" herself. Rather than seeing that the actual source of her upset is (her assuming things about you). She is doing things to upset herself and then acting out at other people. Wonky thinking.

I have 2 people in my life like this. IME, it's best to be emotionally calm and a bit detached when they are trying to work themselves up to have a tempest in a teapot. It also works best for me to just stick to strong boundaries. They might not LIKE it when I do it. But it works out better for all.

Just because they invite me to go swim in their tempest in a teapot doesn't mean I want to jump in there to keep them company splashing around.

If you are going to respond, don't JADE. You do not have to justify, argue, defend, or explain your behavior that you do for yourself to keep YOU healthy. You have been doing what you need to feel better and being more firm and clear works for you. You are not being mean. You sound basic polite. Just aren't all enmeshed in Blondie stuff like before.

If she chooses to take "basic polite" as "mean to me" because "basic polite" is not "be all enmeshed" or "mind reader me" or something? Who's problem is that? Blondie's. Not your problem to solve.

When people make "random announcements" don't be "leaping up to serve." Wait til people make ACTUAL requests of you.

If you are going to respond to it, do not send this. Too much JADE to me. Why do you jump to explaining when nobody has asked you to explain anything? :confused:

"I'm trying to give us time and space. I'm hoping that parallel poly gives all of us the breathing room we need, for now. I want (Bowler) to be able to focus on his job as hinge. If this is not working for you, please tell me why and what you need."

Keep it slower and simpler and wait for response.

"Your text seems out of the blue to me. You seem upset. What motivated the text?"​

1) If she won't say when you ask a direct question? Don't go "fishing" to "pull it out of her." Just respond with

"Ok. Doesn't sound like you had a direct question or request at this time. So I'll drop it.

(TELL HER WHAT TO DO) In future if something bothers you or you have questions, I prefer you ask me direct questions.

(TELL HER WHAT NOT TO DO) Please do not send me random texts. I tend to ignore those. This one happened to catch my attention. Thank you."​

and then really drop it. Let her emotional management be HER responsibility. Don't be doing it for her.

2) If she says she thinks you are avoiding her when X (you went home before she got there) and/ or Y (you chose not to overnight at their house)? Respond short and sweet.

"I am not avoiding you. I'm sorry if there's been misunderstandings.

X: Bowler told me you were ok with me still being there when you got home. I appreciate that. Thank you. I just wanted to go home because I was done for the evening.

Y: I appreciate the hospitality and offer to overnight at your home. That is nice of you. I'm not ready for that at this time. I am choosing to go at the speed I feel comfortable with.

I hope that clears things up.

(TELL HER WHAT TO DO) In future if something bothers you or you have questions, I prefer you ask me direct questions.

(TELL HER WHAT NOT TO DO) Please do not send me random texts. I tend to ignore those. This one happened to catch my attention. Thank you."​

In either case? You know what to do next time you get a text like that.

You can ignore all "random texts" in future and expect her to talk to you directly and ask actual questions and make actual requests.

If she gets confused on that and asks for more info? You simply repeat it ONCE: You tend to ignore random texts. You respond to direct questions and requests. If something bothers her or she has questions, you prefer she ask direct questions.

Be a toaster.

If she puts in the bread right and pushes the button? You make toast. (She asks an actual question politely? You respond politely.)

She suddenly waves bread around in the air but doesn't put it in right? (Random announcements that make no sense or random announcements that seem like she's looking for an argument or... ?) There's no toast out of the toaster. (No response from you.)

She can be (surprised) or (not surprised) about there being no toast when she waves bread around in the air. Determining her level of surprise is not part your toaster job.
  • Learning how to deal with her feelings better is her job.
  • Learning how to communicate better is her job.

Your job?
  • If people operate the toaster correctly? You make toast.
  • If people do not operate the toaster correctly? You don't make toast.
  • If they don't know how to work the toaster? You come with a user manual.
    • You tell them what to do. (If you want a response, ask me direct questions / make direct requests.)
    • You tell them what not to do. (Do not send random texts. I don't usually respond.)

Keep it way simpler on you.

Galagirl
 
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