How much to communicate?

Yellowlover

New member
My husband and I have been polyamorous for over a year. I have dated a couple people while my husband hasn’t dated anyone, at first he didn’t have an interest in pursuing anyone but has gradually warmed up.

There is a friend of his who we both met months ago. Initially I noticed him messaging her frequently and I asked him if he had feelings for her. He insisted he did not and that it was merely a professional relationship and friendship, but my gut felt the opposite. Skip to present, last week he went out with her for a friendly meet up and came home to tell me he had made out with her.

As this was the first connection he had made with anyone within our marriage I was shocked and hurt. Why didn’t he tell me he had feelings for her previously? Couldn’t he have told me this was a date instead of leading me to believe this was just friends hanging out?

The trauma of feeling miscommunicated to and betrayed triggered pain from being lied to in a similar fashion from a previous partner, as well as trauma from being cheated on multiple times. I spun into a very painful trauma state and had a panic attack, first one in a longgg time. A few days later I started talking to him seriously about taking a break from polyamory. The pain and fear I felt was too great, and now that the wound is open I am unsure if I can handle continuing this lifestyle, at least for a while.

To more seasoned poly people I ask, do you communicate (esp to a primary) before connecting with someone? I always have told my husband immediately if I liked someone, and every step of the way shared how close we got as it led to intimacy.
 
No. And how could one be expected to see into the future? Having to stop and consult with a partner would suck all the spontaneity out of it for me.

I think my brand of poly is the simplest. No need to communicate minor things like going out on a date, making out, having sex. It might get mentioned during conversation, but that's about it. I would expect to be informed of major things, like cohabitation, etc.

That was quite a reaction you had. This the first time he's went out with someone? Maybe you are finding out poly isn't for you?
 
I’m 95% confident that he didn’t even think of it as a date until it turned into one. Spontaneity DOES happen, it’s a lovely thing. And isn’t it much nicer to think your partner was surprised rather than purposely lying?
 
I had a similar experience when my husband first became intimate with someone. He had been friends with Ginger for a few weeks when suddenly their relationship turned physical and I was unprepared for the reaction that I felt. I had already been seeing Ponytail for a couple months at that point and I was really surprised at how hurt and betrayed I felt when their friendly dinner became makeouts and sex on our couch.

I think the feelings you are experiencing are normal, and it is okay to share them with your husband — but I think they are more a matter of surprise and newness than they are a reaction to him having done something “wrong” as far as communicating with you. Spontaneity does happen and it may have been easier to predict where feelings would lead in your situations than it was for him in this one. Once the shock wears off, I think you will find that you feel happy for him that his friendship developed naturally into romance. At least, that’s what I found happened for me with Glasses and Ginger.
 
It appears he cannot be absolutely sure about something ahead of time.

He may even have been trying to deny himself for any number of reasons.

Don't make this any harder on him that it already is.

Making out with her is really, really not about you.

Maybe he doesn't like hearing every time you think you may be attracted to someone?

You seem to have different preferences in prior communication. You had an inkling, could you find your way to be satisfied with this. He hadn't hidden his communication with her from you. Don't make him have to start.

And please don't punish the poor woman by forcing him to take a break from poly.
 
I'm very sorry you're having such a strong reaction. Panic attack? Trauma resurfacing? Not a peace of cake :(

It's not uncommon for people who have been poly to be taken by surprise by the intensity of feelings that surface when suddenly their partner starts to date. In that, you are no exeption, although this is a bit extreme.

The feelings are valid and can't be ignored. You will have to stop in your tracks, revisit these past experiences and do your best to integrate them, if you know what I mean. You do need some time and quiet to do so, and you won't manage all in one go. A break may be totally necessary. Consider talking it through with a therapist too.

I disagree with 'don't punish the poor man/woman'. It's not like they are head over heals, they've had one date. It's much better to admit to your capabilities now, than let them date and figure out you can't handle it a few months in.

Having said that, it's probably you who owes an apology to your husband now. After all you've (unintentionally) mislead him into thinking that you can handle his dating. While you should respect your feelings, the situation where you date and, as soon as he also finds someone he's interested in, you pull the breaks, probably feels profoundly unfair to him. So while you're asking him for patience and understanding, do own up to your part in the situation.

As for communication standards, you have to figure out what works for both people. To let you know about every possible date may or may not be realistic for him. Your intuitive radar may even be sensitive now than his emotional self-awareness. You have to figure out what's doable - which, unfortunately, is partly a process of trial and error. And you two don't know his flavour of poly yet.

I wish you a smoother sail in the future.
 
I'm sorry you were taken by surprise and had that panic attack. That does not sound fun. At all.

Your man however, is not your previous cheating partners. I agree with others that it can be difficult to be enjoying being poly yourself, but be extremely upset when our nesting or anchor partner starts to date. BTDT.

We all have our different styles of dating, and choosing when to have sex, and what we consider TMI, or just enough communication. There is a general consensus that some people want to know ahead of time if sex (or even deep kissing) is a possibility with a new partner, and telling one's anchor partner that. Others are fine with being told right afterwards, the next day or before the next time you see or have sex with, the anchor partner.

Old mono habits die hard. It sounds like your husband was reluctant to date anyone, even though you'd been seeing (having sex with, I assume) a couple of people. He might have been feeling guilty about having feelings for another woman, and not wanting to admit it to himself, much less to you. Even though you two were "poly," you in practice, him in theory, taking the plunge to actually acting on feelings for another can be difficult, due to mono brainwashing from our entire culture and upbringing.

I don't think he cheated on you. And unless you had a definite guideline for him to tell you before he did anything physical with a new person, he didn't even betray you. I am sure you can work through this.

I feel kinda bad for his new person. Dating a newly poly person isn't easy. She will have to be patient while you calm down, and your husband learns about himself and his feelings towards poly dating, and his willingness to communicate with you about his feelings and potential actions. Also, as another said, you sharing your dating every step of the way with him, MIGHT feel like TMI to him.
 
Old mono habits die hard. It sounds like your husband was reluctant to date anyone, even though you'd been seeing (having sex with, I assume) a couple of people. He might have been feeling guilty about having feelings for another woman, and not wanting to admit it to himself, much less to you. Even though you two were "poly," you in practice, him in theory, taking the plunge to actually acting on feelings for another can be difficult, due to mono brainwashing from our entire culture and upbringing.

I think this is an important point that doesn't get brought up enough. Cat and I both went through that phase where it was difficult to be totally open due to being previously monogamous. It didn't mean we were hiding stuff. It was just uncomfortable.
 
I disagree with 'don't punish the poor man/woman'. It's not like they are head over heals, they've had one date. It's much better to admit to your capabilities now, than let them date and figure out you can't handle it a few months in.

I will echo Evie’s concern for the friend of “some months” who obviously has formed some kind of mutual attachment with Yellowlover’s husband. We can assume the attachment was allowed to develop within the context of reassurance that their marriage agreement leaves them open to other partners. For the third party to suddenly come up against a wall of spousal veto seems unkind, and unnecessary in many scenarios. Sure, it’s a newly developing relationship. But don’t forget that it’s also a friendship, and she’s also a person.

Yellowlover, had you and your husband ever discussed spousal veto power, or had any sort of agreement about how to handle one of you wanting to turn off the polyamory experiment, while the other was still wanting to be actively poly? Had you ever considered that you might have strong feelings when your husband started dating other people? Was the plan for everyone to quit if anyone got uncomfortable? It sounds like you’re asking for advice about what people “normally” do as far as a communication - but none of that is going to prove betrayal on his part. It’s all down to what explicit agreements you two had.

It sounds like neither of you anticipated how every step of the journey would go, and that is normal and human. But what’s the emergency right now? To stanch the open wound of your trauma? Are you seeing a therapist to help you with that? It might be useful to determine if the betrayal you feel is from the lack of warning from him (which you had already given yourself) that he was moving toward intimacy with this friend, or if the betrayal you feel is more fundamentally that he is actually willing to be intimate with another person.

Will exerting your power to end his first additional relationship ultimately help you deal with what your gut tells you went wrong here? Will you allow him the same veto power over your outside relationships, if you decide to continue doing poly?

Whatever you all decide, I hope you heal from this and emerge stronger, with a better idea of your needs and boundaries, and with explicit agreements that articulate your expectations as partners.
 
Hello Yellowlover,

The question here seems to be less of, "How much to communicate?" and more of, "How honestly to communicate?" You seem to be thinking/feeling that your husband, to be frank, lied to you. That is, he told you he did not have feelings for this other woman, when in reality he did have feelings for her. Does he have anything to say about that now? Does he claim that he did not know he had feelings for her? or does he admit that he lied to you? perhaps making some excuse as to why he lied? Would you believe him if he claimed he didn't know he was lying? Does he have a history of being dishonest in the past?

You need to be able to trust your husband if you are going to go forward with polyamory. On the other hand, maybe you are just done with poly, and that is a decision you can make. I even think your husband will agree to quit poly, if that's what you want. I am hearing you say that poly has turned out to be quite traumatic and painful for you. So quitting poly would be an understandable move.

Do you have a counselor? It seems like counseling would help, you have some heavy trauma from your past to deal with. I hope you're able to get help with that.

Sincerely,
Kevin T.
 
IMO, there's certainly no "winner" from this impasse, but there are certainly paths to avoid anyone losing.

Individual therapy for panic attacks set off by (unnamed) "trauma" -- definitely.

Couple therapy to correct poor communication -- highly recommended.

If anyone in this situation is truly "poly"-- or ever was at all -- then everyone is going to have to get up to speed in how to not only speak but to listen. Otherwise, while it is/was an open marriage, it can't be polyamory.
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We talk about "the poly bomb," but maybe there ought to be more discussion of using intermittent "mortar bursts" of overshare to undercut efforts at communication that is constant, forthcoming, honest, & self-revealing. Hit someone often enough (especially when they're emotionally vulnerable) with TMI, & maybe they'll eventually say something like "I really don't need to hear all this," which might be interpreted as "we aren't going to talk about it any more" -- creeping DADT.
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I am puzzled at how often this pattern has appeared in recent years. Previous to 2000, I'd only seen it once in my extended social circle -- though it's long been "a thing" in swinging.

My concern with "taking a break from poly" is that it'll play out something like this:
  • the vetoer puts any non-primary relationship(s) on hold, & claiming reciprocity demands the vetoee break off all contact with any interesting others
  • the couple attends a handful of counseling sessions, reads a book or two, maybe takes a trip
  • now "fixed" (more from passage of time than learning), the vetoer decides it's okay to "try poly" again
  • but the vetoee isn't allowed to resume involvement with any previous interest, any such having become a "trigger" (what someone here dubbed "a messy person") & thus inherently undermining the vetoer's "healing"
  • the vetoee either has no veto power or isn't inclined to use it, maybe (again) to not restrict the vetoer's "healing"
  • there's the risk that this rationale will continue to be applied, extending the "messy" list until the vetoee becomes entirely gunshy about even getting interested in dating
 
I understand the concept of spontaneous attraction, however IMO, it comes down to expectations, agreements and on-going open communication.

For example, I was in a closed FFM "V". At one point, after we'd shelved any possibility of a triad, I told my female partner (who happens to be more attracted to men than women) that IF she was ever interested in exploring a relationship with another man outside of our V, that we could talk about that.

She said, no, she intended to be monogamous and didn't see that changing. Therefore I would have been quite shocked, hurt and confused if she deliberately misled me about being attracted to someone, or announced out of the blue, that she'd made out with/had sex with someone else.

Just because the "offer" of reciprocity had come up in the past, and the subject broached in a general way, doesn't give a partner carte blanche to just do whatever they feel like if that person has previously stated they're not interested and do not intend to go down a specific path. In that situation, there is an expectation - implicit or explicit - that any forays into intimacy "outside" the dyad will be discussed prior to anything physical occurring.
 
As this was the first connection he had made with anyone within our marriage I was shocked and hurt. Why didn’t he tell me he had feelings for her previously?
How did the two of you handle it when you "dated a couple people" in the past year? Did you keep him informed, at every step, about what was likely to happen & might happen?

Did he react well, or did he have problems with it, or do you not know? If there were problems, did you deal with it as a couple, or did you leave him to "handle his own feelings"?
 
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