Hi from Ann Arbor

Kerfuffle

New member
Hi everyone!

Thanks to a trip to the ER psych ward a year ago I've discovered I'm not the heterosexual monogamous male I thought I was all this time. Nope, I'm a polyamorous, pansexual, demisexual, gender-fluid male. Doesn’t that roll off the tongue! I would feel like a freak wearing all those “strange" labels if I wasn't feeling so incredibly liberated by how they finally explain how I feel.

So how does polyamory relate to me? Basically, I am secretly in love with many of my friends and have been since I was a teen. But it’s not a classic relationship type of love, not a crush, and not a I-must-profess-my-love-or-die kind of love. It’s hard for me to understand and explain. It doesn’t matter whether my friend is a man or a woman. Gender isn’t important for me to love them. It’s all about the person.

Once a friendship grows strong and we trust and care about each other, I begin feeling a strong attraction to him or her. I feel an affectionate love and a strong desire to be intimate and sensual. I don’t want them exclusively to myself. I don’t “long" for them or feel the need to act on this love, but it's are always a part of the relationship. It's not something I feel compelled to confess to them and most of my friends don’t know that I feel this way. But I want there to be more between us, and I have to catch myself sometimes before I scare them away.

For example, I was recently talking to a male friend late at night and he confided that his wife isn’t passionate with him. He gives her massages often and fulfills all her intimate and sensual requests but she rarely does the same for him. It seemed perfectly natural at that moment for us to be intimate and I started saying that I’d be happy to give him a massage, but caught myself before I did. I have to remember that most people don’t understand. He’s a close friend and I know he doesn’t feel that way. But I love him and wanted to give him pleasure and that always arouses me. He’s been married for years and I’m close to his wife too. I love her in the same way. I would welcome affection or intimacy with either of them.

I’ve had experiences and feelings like this throughout my life with many people. I’ve discounted them as abnormal feelings and buried them. I don’t feel that way now.

In the last year I’ve shared what I’ve learned about myself with my wife. She has a hard time relating as she is aromantic with a low drive. We’ve struggled for years since we’re polar opposites. We’ve had frank conversations and discussed divorce, but it’s not that easy since we have kids. She’s open to the idea of me having other relationships, but she worries about the kids finding out and the threat of diseases.

Anyway, I’m starting to know what I want and need, but I’m not sure how or if I’ll get there. This all pretty new to me too. It’s great to read so many stories here. I want to share more of my experiences too.

Thanks for letting me share this “introduction” :)

Dave
 
Greetings Dave,
Welcome to our forum. Please feel free to lurk, browse, etc.

I've been to Ann Arbor, it's a beautiful city!

Hopefully we can help you arrive at the things you want and need, it is not easy transitioning from monogamy to polyamory. Spend some time on Polyamory.com and learn as much as you can. Post more of your thoughts and questions along the way.

I'm glad you could join us.
Sincerely,
Kevin T., "official greeter" :)

Notes:

There's a *lot* of good info in Golden Nuggets. Have a look!

Please read through the guidelines if you haven't already.

Note: You needn't read every reply to your posts, especially if someone posts in a disagreeable way. Given the size and scope of the site it's hard not to run into the occasional disagreeable person. Please contact the mods if you do (or if you see any spam), and you can block the person if you want.

If you have any questions about the board itself, please private-message a mod and they'll do their best to help.

Welcome aboard!
 
...

So how does polyamory relate to me? Basically, I am secretly in love with many of my friends and have been since I was a teen. But it’s not a classic relationship type of love, not a crush, and not a I-must-profess-my-love-or-die kind of love. It’s hard for me to understand and explain. It doesn’t matter whether my friend is a man or a woman. Gender isn’t important for me to love them. It’s all about the person.

Once a friendship grows strong and we trust and care about each other, I begin feeling a strong attraction to him or her. I feel an affectionate love and a strong desire to be intimate and sensual. I don’t want them exclusively to myself. I don’t “long" for them or feel the need to act on this love, but it's are always a part of the relationship. It's not something I feel compelled to confess to them and most of my friends don’t know that I feel this way. But I want there to be more between us, and I have to catch myself sometimes before I scare them away.

...

I want to say that this is very well written and resonates with me immensely!

I think that, as you are beginning your journey, it is well to recognize and enjoy these feelings without having to act upon them. Love and attraction do not need to be reciprocated in order to be a positive and enjoyable part of our emotional lives. Appreciate what they have to offer you - intimate friendship - and know that, while you would like more, they actually don't have that more to offer. And that is ok.

As a woman in our society, I think that woman have an advantage of being able to enjoy more physical touch in our close friendships than men are typically "allowed". We can cuddle and touch, groom each other, and give/receive massages without it being interpreted as overly sexual.

...
In the last year I’ve shared what I’ve learned about myself with my wife. She has a hard time relating as she is aromantic with a low drive. We’ve struggled for years since we’re polar opposites... She’s open to the idea of me having other relationships, but she worries about the kids finding out and the threat of diseases.

It can be difficult to understand drives that we don't share. And that is OK - she is not the one that is undergoing the self-realization and identity change. (Although she might learn a lot about herself as she observes your journey.) Watching a partner grow and evolve and change from the person we once knew can be challenging and difficult. You may both want to contemplate that it is possible to acknowledge and accept differences without necessarily understanding them. (For instance, I do not understand the desire for religion that many people have, it doesn't make any sense to me. Yet I acknowledge that the need to have faith in a higher power is very important to a lot of people.)

If her main fears center around the children and infection - then these are boundary discussions that can be negotiated. (Most people have safer sex policies in place, plenty of single dating parents have boundaries about not exposing their children to dating partners, etc.) It does not seem, from what you have posted, that you are rushing willy-nilly into a hedonistic orgy of new relationships - quite the contrary. For now, I would focus on being "open" to acknowledging your changed perspective and learning about how poly and other concepts can work in different people's lives.

You don't need to "look for" new relationships - when the time is right they will find you.

..
Anyway, I’m starting to know what I want and need, but I’m not sure how or if I’ll get there. This all pretty new to me too. It’s great to read so many stories here. I want to share more of my experiences too.

Thanks for letting me share this “introduction” :)

Dave

Thank you for sharing with us. There is no hurry. Your journey is just starting, tread carefully and with compassion with yourself and your wife and enjoy the path that you find yourself on.
 
Greetings Dave,
Welcome to our forum. Please feel free to lurk, browse, etc.

I've been to Ann Arbor, it's a beautiful city!

Hopefully we can help you arrive at the things you want and need, it is not easy transitioning from monogamy to polyamory. Spend some time on Polyamory.com and learn as much as you can. Post more of your thoughts and questions along the way.

I'm glad you could join us.
Sincerely,
Kevin T., "official greeter" :)

Thank you! I've learned quite a bit already from so many viewpoints and I've barely started.
 
I want to say that this is very well written and resonates with me immensely!

Thank you! That is wonderful knowing you relate to it. I also appreciate you sharing your thoughts.

When I realized that I felt this type of love I had an "aha" moment... but couldn't describe what the "aha" was. You really have to feel it to understand it. It's easier to say what it's not than what it is. The conversations people have shared on this site are really helping though.

I think that, as you are beginning your journey, it is well to recognize and enjoy these feelings without having to act upon them. Love and attraction do not need to be reciprocated in order to be a positive and enjoyable part of our emotional lives. Appreciate what they have to offer you - intimate friendship - and know that, while you would like more, they actually don't have that more to offer. And that is ok.

I completely agree. Plus I wouldn't want to jeopardize my relationships anyway. I'm pretty fortunate to have great friends who share at least some levels of intimacy. There are still important aspects of my life and relationships that are missing, but I've never felt it would be with them. I mentioned my desire to be sensually intimate only because it helps describe how I feel. It was odd to realize I love my friends that way, yet feels perfectly normal too. I've never heard that talked about. For me it really blurs the lines between friendship, love and sexuality.

As a woman in our society, I think that woman have an advantage of being able to enjoy more physical touch in our close friendships than men are typically "allowed". We can cuddle and touch, groom each other, and give/receive massages without it being interpreted as overly sexual.

You're right, my female friends would be reluctant and my male friends would be mortified to share that kind of friendly intimacy. I'm a bit jealous :)

It can be difficult to understand drives that we don't share. And that is OK - she is not the one that is undergoing the self-realization and identity change. (Although she might learn a lot about herself as she observes your journey.) Watching a partner grow and evolve and change from the person we once knew can be challenging and difficult...

My wife and I definitely have some big challenges. Over the years I've watched her do most of the growing and evolving. I was her rock from the beginning. But when I went through a rough spell and needed her, she had no idea how to handle it. Instead she froze solid. She left a pretty deep scar in my heart and that is a story worthy of it's own book. Now that I'm the one evolving she seems baffled by how to react and almost intrigued by it. But she won't discuss any of her emotions or our relationship, period. She never has. She is very much aromantic. She has stated clearly numerous times that she will never see a therapist or relationship councilor. It is a non-negotiable boundary for her.

If her main fears center around the children and infection - then these are boundary discussions that can be negotiated. (Most people have safer sex policies in place, plenty of single dating parents have boundaries about not exposing their children to dating partners, etc.) It does not seem, from what you have posted, that you are rushing willy-nilly into a hedonistic orgy of new relationships - quite the contrary. For now, I would focus on being "open" to acknowledging your changed perspective and learning about how poly and other concepts can work in different people's lives.

Well, when you put it that way, "rushing willy-nilly into a hedonistic orgy of new relationships", it sounds very enticing! Is that an option??? Fine, you're right. I'm not looking for anything that exciting. I'm just hoping to one day develop long term loving relationships. I'm very open and passionate, but I'm not the one-night-stand-next-to-the-bed kind of guy. Give me two night stands and then sex will be on the table.

There are only two valid options for me right now. I already know my wife will never be poly. Either I get divorced or I work out an arrangement with my wife until our kids have grown. The second option is only there because we discussed all the consequences divorce would force on our kids. I'm also our only income and my wife says she is 100% happy with her life. She doesn't want the disruption.

I just remembered the other fear she has: that I will fall in love monogamously and end up still divorcing her. I obviously can't guarantee that, but monogamy is not at the core of how I feel. I don't care if a person I love has 10 other people they love too. All I want to know is that when she (or he) is with me, she loves me at that moment with all her heart and accepts that I love her back the same. If tomorrow she does the same for another man or women, I'm still happy because I know she loves me too. And I might be with another person I love too. And that's the ironic part. I've been faithfully monogamous for all these years and my wife has rarely given or accepted that kind of love. But I've always felt it for her and some of my friends.

You don't need to "look for" new relationships - when the time is right they will find you.

I understand and agree that forcing relationships often doesn't work well. Although in order for poly relationships to "find" me, I'm guessing I would have to associate more with people I know are poly? I haven't even reached that point yet. I imagine if I made similar friendships to the ones I have now, but with poly men and women, they would likely grow to become the type of relationships I'm hoping for.

Thanks again for your many thought provoking comments :)
 
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...It was odd to realize I love my friends that way, yet feels perfectly normal too. I've never heard that talked about. For me it really blurs the lines between friendship, love and sexuality.

It IS normal - for those of us that love that way. As to blurring the lines...yes, well, I have never understood why those "lines" were important anyway! Who decided those lines? What purpose do they serve? Those "lines" seem like "labels" to me - they try to box my relationships into these limited frameworks. I'm a bit of a "relationship anarchist" in this regard - I use terms to describe my relationships, not proscribe them. (i.e. x is my boyfriend, therefore I expect x/y/z from him, as opposed to, I share x/y/z with a person therefore I consider them my "boyfriend").

You're right, my female friends would be reluctant and my male friends would be mortified to share that kind of friendly intimacy. I'm a bit jealous :)

Yes. Reminds me of the Bloodhound Gang lyrics "I just wish I was queer so I could get chicks" and "Ya see I'd be a good listener so she'd treat me like a sister and soon I'd become that trusted friend that cares that rubs her back and braids her hair."

Physical touch is such an innate part of our primate existence! It's a shame that men in our society have so MANY restrictions on their legitimate need for touch.

...My wife and I definitely have some big challenges. Over the years I've watched her do most of the growing and evolving. I was her rock from the beginning. But when I went through a rough spell and needed her, she had no idea how to handle it. Instead she froze solid. She left a pretty deep scar in my heart and that is a story worthy of it's own book. Now that I'm the one evolving she seems baffled by how to react and almost intrigued by it. But she won't discuss any of her emotions or our relationship, period. She never has. She is very much aromantic. She has stated clearly numerous times that she will never see a therapist or relationship councilor. It is a non-negotiable boundary for her.


It is difficult for anyone to "change roles" in a relationship. But I don't understand the reluctance against counseling...why is that so threatening? Is it that someone may tell her shes is "wrong"? (Which is not what useful counseling/therapy is about!) In my world view, NO-ONE's life is so perfect that counseling could not me useful.

...Well, when you put it that way, "rushing willy-nilly into a hedonistic orgy of new relationships", it sounds very enticing! Is that an option???

Yes, it is. We see it here a LOT! It rarely ends well. Someone coerces their partner into a half-hearted agreement to "open" their relationships (the alternative being divorces or breaking up)...then spends months running rough-shod over their partner's feelings/objections and wonders why it ends badly.

Fine, you're right. I'm not looking for anything that exciting. I'm just hoping to one day develop long term loving relationships. I'm very open and passionate, but I'm not the one-night-stand-next-to-the-bed kind of guy. Give me two night stands and then sex will be on the table.

Yup, I got the impression from your post that you are not a complete jackass :D! Long-term loving relationships, IMHO, develop from long-term loving friendships. Be your authentic self and you will attract people who are attracted to the authentic you. Meet people. Be open to possibilities. Enjoy people for what they bring to your life.

There are only two valid options for me right now. I already know my wife will never be poly. Either I get divorced or I work out an arrangement with my wife until our kids have grown. The second option is only there because we discussed all the consequences divorce would force on our kids. I'm also our only income and my wife says she is 100% happy with her life. She doesn't want the disruption.

I just remembered the other fear she has: that I will fall in love monogamously and end up still divorcing her. I obviously can't guarantee that, but monogamy is not at the core of how I feel. I don't care if a person I love has 10 other people they love too. All I want to know is that when she (or he) is with me, she loves me at that moment with all her heart and accepts that I love her back the same. If tomorrow she does the same for another man or women, I'm still happy because I know she loves me too. And I might be with another person I love too. And that's the ironic part. I've been faithfully monogamous for all these years and my wife has rarely given or accepted that kind of love. But I've always felt it for her and some of my friends.

She is happy with the "status quo" - okay, data point. The fact that she hasn't run for the hills screaming is ... remarkable. I don't think my husband is particularly poly (I would describe him as "polyflexible" - but he has never, since we got together, been with a girl that I, also, didn't have some sort of relationship with - even thought that has NEVER, EVER been a criteria for a woman being with me.)

...
I understand and agree that forcing relationships often doesn't work well. Although in order for poly relationships to "find" me, I'm guessing I would have to associate more with people I know are poly? I haven't even reached that point yet. I imagine if I made similar friendships to the ones I have now, but with poly men and women, they would likely grow to become the type of relationships I'm hoping for.

Hmmm...I agree that "forcing" relationships doesn't work. But I don't know that you need to associate with "poly" people to find someone who would be good for you to be in a relationship with. "Poly" is not on the radar for most people - even those whose personal philosophy resonates with the concept. My Dude had never even heard the phrase before I introduced him to the concept. When I explained the idea to him...it was as if a light-bulb went off. "yes.that."
 
It IS normal - for those of us that love that way. As to blurring the lines...yes, well, I have never understood why those "lines" were important anyway! Who decided those lines? What purpose do they serve? Those "lines" seem like "labels" to me - they try to box my relationships into these limited frameworks. I'm a bit of a "relationship anarchist" in this regard - I use terms to describe my relationships, not proscribe them. (i.e. x is my boyfriend, therefore I expect x/y/z from him, as opposed to, I share x/y/z with a person therefore I consider them my "boyfriend").

Well said! It's been a constant fight between the feelings I have that are external "is she a friend that's a girl, or a girlfriend?" and my real feelings that are internally true "how much do I love this person? how much do I want to share intimately with her?". It hasn't been obvious which are which until recently.

It is difficult for anyone to "change roles" in a relationship. But I don't understand the reluctance against counseling...why is that so threatening? Is it that someone may tell her shes is "wrong"? (Which is not what useful counseling/therapy is about!) In my world view, NO-ONE's life is so perfect that counseling could not me useful.

I agree with what you said. We have talked about this many times. She doesn't want to analyze herself. She gets instantly mad and shuts down to any questions that require her to talk about herself or her feelings. She's always been that way. I know most of it comes from her abuse as a child. But you know what? She's happy. She loves her life the way it is. She says it and proves it in her actions. She feels she is being her true self, and one aspect is not liking affection, romance or sex. She's aromantic.

I've been seeing a therapist who specializes in both relationship and general psychology and she is wonderful. I've been going for a year since my trip to the ER. We have discussed many things about my wife and I've done everything suggested with love and empathy. I love my wife. We're good friends. But she consistently shuts down. My therapist and I agreed to have her call my wife and see if she would consider phone or in-person counseling. My wife told her point blank that she would never consider any of it, period.

Yes, it is. We see it here a LOT! It rarely ends well. Someone coerces their partner into a half-hearted agreement to "open" their relationships (the alternative being divorces or breaking up)...then spends months running rough-shod over their partner's feelings/objections and wonders why it ends badly.

Yes, that sounds opposite of my intent. I hope my humor wasn't too subtle. I was being very playfully tongue-in-cheek :D


Yup, I got the impression from your post that you are not a complete jackass :D! Long-term loving relationships, IMHO, develop from long-term loving friendships. Be your authentic self and you will attract people who are attracted to the authentic you. Meet people. Be open to possibilities. Enjoy people for what they bring to your life.

I always laugh when I see the "complete" qualifier :) What you've described is pretty much the type of relationships I want. I do meet many people and have many friends, but I've never met people who are like us. I think it's because my circles tend to have more traditional views on relationships.

She is happy with the "status quo" - okay, data point. The fact that she hasn't run for the hills screaming is ... remarkable. I don't think my husband is particularly poly (I would describe him as "polyflexible" - but he has never, since we got together, been with a girl that I, also, didn't have some sort of relationship with - even thought that has NEVER, EVER been a criteria for a woman being with me.)

I'm stuck on the word "remarkable". What is your take on her not running for the hills screaming? I've haven't directly told her about being poly. To be concise, our conversations went like this, spoken calming and openly... "I'm not interested in affection, romance and sex anymore, and actually never have been. It's not you, you're perfect and there's nothing I would change about you. You're a great dad to our kids and a great friend. I just need to be myself and don't want that part of my life anymore." ... "I understand how you feel and love you. I honestly don't know what I'm supposed to do though. Affection, romance and sex are important needs for me. Do you really want me to give those up too?" ... "No, I don't want you to be miserable." ... "What are the options then? Do you think I'd see other people for that part of my life?" ... "I don't know, I haven't thought about that, maybe." ... "Would that even work for us?". That's when we started talking about if divorce actually makes more sense – it doesn't when it comes to our kids – and the negatives about me having other relationships. I asked if she would like the freedom of having a relationship with another man or woman and she said she no, she doesn't want relationships at all.

That started my thoughts on what an open marriage would look like to me, and I discovered my feelings were more "poly". When I coupled that with my feelings toward my friends it all became much clearer. We haven't discussed any of this lately because I'm learning more about me first. There's no rush and I don't want to bombard her with bits and pieces.

Hmmm...I agree that "forcing" relationships doesn't work. But I don't know that you need to associate with "poly" people to find someone who would be good for you to be in a relationship with. "Poly" is not on the radar for most people - even those whose personal philosophy resonates with the concept. My Dude had never even heard the phrase before I introduced him to the concept. When I explained the idea to him...it was as if a light-bulb went off. "yes.that."

I guess it's more about people that think outside of traditional boxes. Most of my friends are liberal and open minded about most things, but when it comes to relationships I don't know anyone who would consider anything outside of monogamy.
 
You never know what people will consider under the right circumstances! You will find on these forums story after story like mine, people who never would have considered non-monogamy until they met someone they loved who was open to the idea. It is not so smooth an beginning as with experienced polyamorists but it happens all the time.
 
I think Michigan has a poly group. Googling "Michigan polyamory" might conjure it up.
 
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