First-Time Secondary Enters Relationship with Expectations That Lead to Envy

WhichWitch

New member
I entered into my first polyamorous relationship (and second relationship ever, if that's relevant) a little over ten months ago. At the time I knew next to nothing about polyamory aside from its basic premise of having more than one romantic and/or sexual partner at a time with the full knowledge and consent of everyone involved. It was an impulsive decision on both of our parts. I had known my male partner for almost five years before we got together ,and I also knew he had been with his wife for a very long time (almost 16 years at the time); I did not, however, know he was polyamorous until the very day our relationship began, when we were hanging out and the conversation turned toward my parents' divorce and, in turn, his views on monogamy. I had had a huge crush on him for the longest time but had not acted on it, both because the circumstances under which we met and initially knew each other made doing so inappropriate, and out of respect for what I presumed was his monogamous relationship with his wife. When he informed me he was not, in fact, monogamous, I became very excited and emboldened, we started flirting, and eventually it ended up with me asking him to kiss me and him obliging. We have been together since.

Like I said before, I knew next to nothing about polyamory when I first started dating my partner. I did not know about hierarchical polyamory or that I was considered a secondary until I started doing research later. Because of this, I (unknowingly) entered this relationship with expectations that have led to feelings of intense envy and, in turn, guilt because of that envy.

I did not enter this relationship expecting to usurp his wife, and I still do not expect that, nor do I want to. (That is not, after all, how polyamory works.) My relationship with her has evolved into a romantic one, although we are both more deeply involved with our male partner than with each other. I was initially not attracted to her in a romantic or sexual way, and for a while I felt like I was being pressured for my relationship with her to evolve a certain way and at a certain pace, but we eventually discussed this and now they are both mindful to let things evolve in a way that is more natural and comfortable, with no pressure for it to become something else.

I did enter this relationship, however, expecting other things. I expected that, as my relationship with my male partner progressed and deepened, I would eventually come to be regarded as his co-primary. I have broached this subject once, and they both said they were open to the idea. However, I have come to realize that I want more than I think I can have in this relationship because of the expectations I unwittingly set up, and it has led to envy. I am envious of the stability of their relationship, I am envious that they can publicly acknowledge their true relationship with each other, I am envious of how deep their connection is, I am envious that they get to sleep with each other every night. I feel incredibly guilty about all of this and have been struggling with how to tell them about this. I don't know how to admit that I'm much more insecure than I let on, that my anxiety amplifies my insecurities and makes certain things sometimes sting that much more than they would otherwise. I know I should let them know, and I will--I feel a bit more clear on what my concerns are now that I've written them down here--but how? How do I tell them, exactly? And, most importantly, how do I come to peace with my position? I want this relationship to work, and I am willing to tackle my insecurities to ensure that happens.


Edit:
After reading some of the responses, I have decided to add onto this, seeing as when I initially wrote this post I was compressed for time and wasn't able to add as many details as I would have liked.

I am twenty years old, fourteen and thirteen years younger than my male and female partner, respectively. They met in high school and have been together for over sixteen years. My previous relationship, while very intense, was also admittedly very short (over five months) and more akin to "puppy love" than real love. I'd say this is my first serious relationship.

Before I go any further, I should point out that my male partner is my former high school teacher. We did not begin our relationship until about a year and a half after I'd graduated; I was 19 at the time. He is no longer in the teaching profession. I was very hesitant to put this in my original post even though I knew it would add necessary context to my particular situation, but ultimately decided it was best to mention it here.

I am not completely being hidden; a select few of my male partner's friends know about me and the nature of our relationship. His parents are aware of my existence, but not of my real relationship to him or his wife. I have been over to their house a few times and am presented as a friend of his wife's whom she met through volunteering (not completely a lie, since we do volunteer together) who also occasionally hangs out with him. They also know I am a former student of his. My male partner has, however, flipped back and forth on whether he is ever going to tell his parents about me. He seems to think their reaction is going to be very negative; seeing as he has a rather cynical outlook on life, I have no idea how much of this is true and how much is him just projecting. He has an incredibly close relationship with his mother, which makes the prospect of him never telling her especially painful. I can certainly understand why he would be hesitant to say anything now--not just because coming out as polyamorous can be risky or because I'm his former student, but also because his parents are going through a tough time right now and telling them about me would only exacerbate things--but the idea of him potentially never telling his parents about me is kind of insulting, and will only become more so as time goes on. I am not expecting either of them to shout from the rooftops about their relationship with me--I don't like the idea of *every* detail of my relationship being shared, especially on social media--but there's something...seemingly invalidating, I suppose...when it comes to his family never finding out. Some members of my family are aware of my relationships, and while none of them are too thrilled about it, they also recognize that I am now an adult and that since what I am doing isn't hurting anybody and makes me happy (I know I have focused mostly on the negative things here, but there certainly are positive aspects to this relationship as well), they really don't have a say in the matter.

As you may have already been able to guess from what I've said above, my partners live with my male partner's parents for financial reasons, so overnight stays are currently out of the question. They have, however, been trying to move out for years, and recent developments have me hopeful that they'll soon be able to do so. I currently live with my dad, so either or both of them coming over to spend the night with me is also out of the question for now.

I would eventually like to cohabit with them. This has also been briefly mentioned as a possibility. As far as children are concerned, I've never really wanted to be a mother. My partners do not have any children, have never tried to have children, and don't seem especially interested in having children in the future.

While my male partner has had a few casual relationships before in addition to his relationship with his wife, he has apparently never attempted a serious second relationship before. He says that, regarding me, they are both essentially "winging it". I find this slightly troubling--I'd rather not be treated as a crash test dummy of sorts--and am also irritated that I seem to have done more research on this than they have. My male partner told me he believes himself to be good at relationships because he's maintained the one with my female partner for as long as they have, but I'd think it'd be different when it comes to a secondary partner.

Lastly, I think it's important for me to point out that I suffer from anxiety as well as a mood disorder, which could certainly be coloring my perception of things.
 
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Hi TenaciousB,

Welcome to the board. I love Jack Black too.

Sorry you're in a bit of a pickle. I'm glad writing it out helped a little. I have advice for you, but first, questions.

You say it's only your second relationship ever. How old are you? How long did your previous relationship last? Are you an Aries (j/k, but they do tend to jump into things without much planning, "ready, fire, aim!")?

So you know a bit about poly now, and the terms primary and secondary. You are attempting a triad, which is the hardest kind of poly, and you're new to dating and brand new to poly. You've got your work cut out for you. You have taken on a lot.

I know you're focused on envy of your couple now. How long have they been together? Of course their relationship is deeper than yours with either of them, since you've only been seeing them 10 months.

My first bit of advice is, rather than envy what they have, focus on what YOU need. Do you want more overnights, with one or the other or both of them? Say so. Speak up.

You can't force "depth," but that will grown with time. Is there some other way you'd like to seek and achieve depth? Do you feel the relationship is too sex based and you'd like more intimacy in other ways? Do you want less threesome sex and more one on one sex?

You wish your relationship with him or them could be made more public. What is preventing that? Can you be out to your family and friends? To at least some of their family and friends?

It sounds like you've gone along with their desires for this set up, but you don't have to. You are allowed to negotiate to meet your needs. You should NOT pretend to be ok with everything, and act "secure" when your needs aren't met and you need more security. You wouldn't do that in a mono relationship, why would you do it in this one?

And if you are "more focused" on the guy, don't feel you have to be in a triad. You could do a V. Most polyamorists do NOT do triads. They do Vs. You could be friendly with your female partner, but there is no need to be romantic or sexual with her, if that really doesn't float your boat.

Please read this article about relationships right in poly, the rights of secondaries, the rights of co-primaries. Some people like being secondaries. If you don't like being a secondary, and want more, you need to renegotiate how that would manifest for you and make you more comfortable, fulfilled and secure.

https://www.morethantwo.com/relationshipbillofrights.html
 
Oh, another thing I should mention is the "relationship escalator." Have you heard of that?

For the last couple hundred years or so, in Western culture, without arranged marriages being the norm, relationships are expected to go like this, to be considered successful (in more or less this order):

Meet (online maybe)
Chat
Exchange phone numbers
Text
Move to phone conversations, or, set up a date
Have a first date
Kiss
More dates
Have sex
Meet each others' friends
Meet each others' families
Start doing overnights
Start doing more than one overnight, say, on the weekends
Help each other with household projects
Say "I love you" at some point
Start taking vacations together
After a period of time... move in together
Maybe get a pet
Maybe start blending finances
Maybe get engaged, get married
Buy a bigger house perhaps
Have a kid or three
If one of you gets a better job in another area, agree to move together to new area
Eventually, plan retirement, grow older, retire and finally pass away

So, where on this escalator would you like to be, with one or both of your partners? Obviously you can't legally marry the guy, but some poly people do "marry" their other significant other, do a handfasting, set up legal protections, medical, wills, have their name on the lease or mortgage, etc.

Would you like to have a child?

Would you like to eventually cohabit?

And so on. Ask yourself these questions. You don't need to answer here right away or at all.
 
Hi,

I read your post and I thought about my beginnings as a poly. You wrote a lot about many negative feeling you have. Have you positive feeling too? Do you like to be free to love more than one person? Is it strong? Do you actually like the idea you are part of a triad?

The feeling you described is surely real and important. I don't know a safe way to say them. At the beginning of my triad, we just have lots of strong arguments and we used to be very exhausted and full of emotions all the time. It was a difficult and dangerous way, it worked, but I just can not really recommend it to anyone.

But I know that that kind of feeling you have could be changed. When they one said it will be ok for you to be primary, too (am I getting it right?) they probably mean it. I think you should trust them. You have nothing to lose (ok, just your sanity, but it seems to me that you are deeply in love). Try just be honest and show maybe your pure feelings.
 
Hello TheTenaciousB,

I think the best way to broach the subject would be to just state how you feel. Something like, "I have been feeling down lately, wishing I had more of certain things in my relationship with you. I would like more stability. I would like to be able to publicly acknowledge my true relationship with you. I would like a deeper connection with you. I would like to be able to sleep with you. I feel guilty for wanting all these things, but I still hope we can negotiate." To tell them this, schedule a time with them for it, sometime when you are all relaxed and free of distractions. You can even just tell him at first if you want, but at some point I would recommend bringing her into the conversation. After all it affects her too.

And try to think of specifics to tell them. Like, what specifically would make you feel like you had more stability in the relationship? and what would signify to you a deep connection with them? The more specifics you can tell them, the better. Remember that what means depth and stability to you, may be different from what means depth and stability to them. So make a list of the things you would like.

In posting these things, I just mean to give you some ideas. You can adjust what I've written here, or even discard any part of it, just use your best judgment. I hope you are able to work things out with them.

Sincerely,
Kevin T.
 
It was an impulsive decision on both of our parts.

You already have some great advice. The people around here are pretty amazing for their understanding and kindness.

I've zeroed in here on something, and as a much older man myself than either my wife or mistresses, and you, I will make this observation:

You thought about this a long time beforehand, and so did he. But he is the one with much greater experience. He should have known better, for exactly the reason you suffer now.

I have never done this to anyone. In meeting someone, the first words out of my mouth clarify exactly where a #2 would fit in. Because resentment is inevitable otherwise. You will feel used, because you have been. In my world of protocol anyway.

There is still quite a lot of fun in new relationships so long as you don't then drag an impossibility out for much longer than it should. So you sit down and evaluate, talk openly, and develop expectations.

Maybe it is the would-be knight in me saying the guy had much greater relative experience. Both of you figured you'd bang each other first and figure it out later, but he knew how this was going to map out a lot longer than ten months ago. I know before I meet you.

It's roughly 2.5 million years of evolution operating on you with the envy there, dear. Your feelings are programmed at the genetic level. If you had a house he bought you, kids on the way, a retirement account, M-TH schedule, the envy needle would not be registering hardly at all, eh?
 
Dear Tenacious,

You sound very thoughtful and considerate and introspective. You are doing a great job reading about polyamory and thinking of all these questions about your situation.

I am less impressed with your partner and his wife. He doesn't sound thoughtful or mature. He and his wife are the ones who should be doing a lot of reading about polyamory and checking in with you about your feelings.

Don't beat yourself up for feeling envious or for having expectations. It may turn out that you have to adjust your expectations for this relationship, or end the relationship if it turns out not be what you want. That's okay.

I do think your age, your inexperience with relationships, and the circumstances in which you met your boyfriend are all relevant. I had older boyfriends when I was 19 and again when I was 21. Older guys were sexy and intriguing and seemed to offer a world of experience beyond my every day life. It makes perfect sense to me that a teenage girl would find a 30-year-old guy more attractive and interesting than a guy her own age.

But. BUT BUT BUT. I want to go back in time (I'm 37 now) and give my younger self a hug and a whole lot of advice. There is usually a reason that a 30-year-old guy dates a 19-year-old instead of a woman his own age: because he is too immature to relate to women his own age.

I know your boyfriend DOES also have a woman his own age--but I suspect she is immature too. It's not okay to be pressuring you to have a romantic relationship with her. (Are you even bi/queer?). Why do these two 30-somethings live with his parents--what went wrong with their life plan? I think it's EXCELLENT NEWS that this guy is not a teacher anymore--but, may I ask, what happened there? It's not normal to give up a teaching career that I assume he spent years training/getting a teaching degree for.

Nor is it normal for a (former) high school teacher to hang out with his students after they graduate. It's just weird. I know that you were over 18 before anything happened...but, it's not all that okay on his part.

I get your attraction for him, I really do. But here is what I'd advise you to do:

Live your life for your awesome self, and enjoy this relationship while it lasts, while also making plans for an awesome future of your own, with or without this couple. DO NOT MAKE PLANS TO MOVE IN WITH THEM. Do make plans to do whatever you need to do regarding a job, college, gaining financial independence, following dreams & career plans, etc, for yourself.

Get job experience. Explore your interests and hobbies. Make new friends. Travel. DATE OTHER PEOPLE--SERIOUSLY, if they get to be a couple, you get to have another relationship of your own too, if you want. At the very least, you should go on lots of dates & meet people & get to know yourself & gain more experience about what is attractive & fun for you.

Magdlyn's list of the relationship escalator is helpful, but she forgot to mention that some poly people deliberately chose to be "off the relationship escalator." You can have love & commitment while never riding the "relationship escalator." For example, I never wanted to have kids and I don't want to live with someone--so my partner and I live separately and have very independent lives.

At age 21, I was in a very similar situation to you, TenaciousB. I was dating an older guy (only 28, though, and a fellow college student at my school) who had a 36-year-old female partner. (I was not romantically or sexually involved with her). I had zero experience with polyamory, but I was intrigued and I respected their relationship.

They turned out to be complete nutjobs. They demanded that I hang out with the two of them together, all the time. I was not "allowed" to see him on certain days/nights, but she could see him whenever. If I complained, he would accuse me of being jealous and controlling. He would also flirt with other girls and ignore my requests for limits on that behavior. The relationship was a constant struggle, and I grew insecure and depressed.

Luckily, I had also been focusing on my own life simultaneously, graduating with honors and getting accepted into an amazing writing workshop. When he finally dumped me, it broke my heart, and I was devastated that I didn't get to celebrate my graduation with him. (Years later I learned that he had failed out in his last semester & never got a degree, lol). But I was able to move on with my life without too much damage to my future.

I hope there is a better outcome for you. You already sound more clear-headed than I was at your age, and you have way more resources on polyamory than I did. So that's good! Maybe it will work out with you and this couple.

But ask yourself some questions. What do you actually want for your future? Where do you see yourself in 5 years? Or in 20? Do you want to still be living with these two? Helping raise their children? Being a closed triad forever?

You do have to speak up about what you want. If they don't share your vision/expectations, it's okay to leave them. You're only 20 and there are a million awesome people out there for you. YOU SHOULD REALLY TRY DATING SOME OF THESE OTHER PEOPLE! I cannot say that enough.

In the meanwhile, live YOUR OWN awesome life. Dating is supposed to be fun. If it's not fun, something is wrong, and breaking up will 100% cure it.
 
Quick Clarification.

Hey there,
I'd just like to thank you all for taking the time to respond to me. I really do appreciate it. I have read all of your responses and have taken them to heart.

Seeing as I can no longer edit my post, I am going to take the opportunity here to clarify what I initially wrote about my female partner. What I spoke about--initially feeling like my relationship with her was not being allowed to develop naturally--is no longer a problem. I eventually spoke up about how I was feeling, and both of my partners listened, and upon realizing that it was making me uncomfortable, have made much more of an effort to take my feelings into account and not to push me to do anything I don't want to. I am currently happy with my relationship with her now that it is being allowed to progress more naturally. I mentioned it to provide some context/background information, not because it's still a problem. I can definitely see how it could be interpreted as the latter, though, since the rest of my post talks about various problems I have and I didn't clarify.
 
I would eventually like to cohabit with them......

I suffer from anxiety as well as a mood disorder, which could certainly be coloring my perception of things.

If you have anxiety about this situation, it would seem that your internal warning signals are fully operational and functioning well. For all of the reasons that others and especially MeeraRead laid out, none of you are in the emotional/mental place where domesticating together would be good. I encourage you to listen closely to Meera's encouragement to focus on developing your own sense of self and your own life, not basing your life on this couple. It's not that they are wrong (although there are indeed some red flags there,) it's that you are 20 and so new to relationships in general. This is your time to explore who you are and what you are all about. You can (and IMO, every 20 year old should) have intimate relationships without living with the romantic partner(s.) Domestication brings on a whole host of issues that don't make themselves visible until you're in the thick of it - and it makes being independent much more challenging, especially when a person is so young.

I am prone to anxiety - specifically, abandonment fears due to my adoption/loss of birth mother and a few tragic losses in childhood. I can tell you from vast experience that diving headfirst into deeply intimate situations is not the way to heal from anxiety about abandonment and loss (which seems to be at the root of many anxiety disorders.) Step back and slow down. You have all the time in the world and taking things slowly - with or without this couple - can only serve you.
 
I do think your age, your inexperience with relationships, and the circumstances in which you met your boyfriend are all relevant. I had older boyfriends when I was 19 and again when I was 21. Older guys were sexy and intriguing and seemed to offer a world of experience beyond my every day life. It makes perfect sense to me that a teenage girl would find a 30-year-old guy more attractive and interesting than a guy her own age.

But. BUT BUT BUT. I want to go back in time (I'm 37 now) and give my younger self a hug and a whole lot of advice. There is usually a reason that a 30-year-old guy dates a 19-year-old instead of a woman his own age: because he is too immature to relate to women his own age.

I know your boyfriend DOES also have a woman his own age--but I suspect she is immature too. It's not okay to be pressuring you to have a romantic relationship with her. (Are you even bi/queer?). Why do these two 30-somethings live with his parents--what went wrong with their life plan? I think it's EXCELLENT NEWS that this guy is not a teacher anymore--but, may I ask, what happened there? It's not normal to give up a teaching career that I assume he spent years training/getting a teaching degree for.

Nor is it normal for a (former) high school teacher to hang out with his students after they graduate. It's just weird. I know that you were over 18 before anything happened...but, it's not all that okay on his part.

This X 100. I also found myself a mature teen dating guys who were waaay too old for me. I look back and think to myself, "what a creep!" I was 17 dating guys in their 30's and 40's. Not cool at all.

Listen to your instincts. Just because this guy and his wife are older, does not mean they know better than you do. It seems like you are the only one with a level head on your shoulders in this situation.
 
As someone who was fascinated with older men as a young teenager, and who moved in with and got engaged to my (same age) boyfriend at age 19, I want to second THIS:

I get your attraction for him, I really do. But here is what I'd advise you to do:

Live your life for your awesome self, and enjoy this relationship while it lasts, while also making plans for an awesome future of your own, with or without this couple. DO NOT MAKE PLANS TO MOVE IN WITH THEM. Do make plans to do whatever you need to do regarding a job, college, gaining financial independence, following dreams & career plans, etc, for yourself.

Get job experience. Explore your interests and hobbies. Make new friends. Travel. DATE OTHER PEOPLE--SERIOUSLY, if they get to be a couple, you get to have another relationship of your own too, if you want. At the very least, you should go on lots of dates & meet people & get to know yourself & gain more experience about what is attractive & fun for you.

When I began dating, I dropped out of college... moved in with my second boyfriend... married my third boyfriend at age 25 and raised two kids.

Sure, I had some wonderful times and life experiences. But I never did get my degree, and I never travelled overseas until I was almost 50. LIVE for yourself FIRST.
 
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TenaciousB said:
Seeing as I can no longer edit my post, I am going to take the opportunity here to clarify what I initially wrote about my female partner. What I spoke about--initially feeling like my relationship with her was not being allowed to develop naturally--is no longer a problem. I eventually spoke up about how I was feeling, and both of my partners listened, and upon realizing that it was making me uncomfortable, have made much more of an effort to take my feelings into account and not to push me to do anything I don't want to. I am currently happy with my relationship with her now that it is being allowed to progress more naturally.

I'm glad to hear that part of it has been resolved and you are happier with that part -- your relationship with your female partner who is also the wife of your male partner. See? You spoke up and talked things out. That behavior served you well.


What about the rest?

I expected that, as my relationship with my male partner progressed and deepened, I would eventually come to be regarded as his co-primary. I have broached this subject once, and they both said they were open to the idea.

Do you still want to be working toward co-primary with your male partner?

I am envious of the stability of their relationship, I am envious that they can publicly acknowledge their true relationship with each other, I am envious of how deep their connection is, I am envious that they get to sleep with each other every night.

To me some of that has to do with "being out" as a poly grouping.

Also having recognized "standing" in his/their/your shared lives. My legal spouse and I have "automatic standing" in certain ways.

Some of that is from cohabitations/sharing living arrangements.

Some of that is that they've been together with each other longer than with you so they have history. Doesn't mean you cannot have history too over time... but you don't have it right NOW to the same degree.

I feel incredibly guilty about all of this and have been struggling with how to tell them about this. I don't know how to admit that I'm much more insecure than I let on, that my anxiety amplifies my insecurities and makes certain things sometimes sting that much more than they would otherwise. I know I should let them know, and I will--I feel a bit more clear on what my concerns are now that I've written them down here--but how? How do I tell them, exactly? And, most importantly, how do I come to peace with my position? I want this relationship to work, and I am willing to tackle my insecurities to ensure that happens.

You could keep it way simpler on yourself. Go back to behavior that served you well.

You could say something like

"I need to hear reassuring words. Could you be willing to read this -- something I wrote about what's on my mind lately? And then give me a hug and reassuring words so I can get through this rough patch?"

Print the post, ask them to read it. Simply ASK for the reassurance that you need.

Remember that you felt better talking things out about the first issue -- about letting your relationship with your female partner unfold at a more natural pace and not so pressured. They listened. Y'all worked it out.

Could work out the next thing then. And allow yourself to feel vulnerable the first few times out so you can BECOME more confident with your poly people in talking about these sorts of things out in future. Confidence is grown by doing. It is not going to fall out of the sky.

Hang in there. And GL!

Galagirl
 
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