2 years and now what???

RUourcouple

New member
It would be of help to me to have some feedback on our situation from some of you that have experienced poly more than us.
First the background. I am Mr. C and S and I have been together for over 35 years, most of them as husband and wife. 2 1/2 years ago we sat down for one of our patented heart to heart talks. We agreed that life would not stand still and we wanted to experience emotional and sexual adventures while still feeling like youngsters. We took a few tries at swinging and found that to be empty and unfulfilling. What we came to discover was our poly feelings. We wanted relationships with others and not just orgasms. Two years ago a young gentleman came into our life who was very respectful and treated me as the husband with as much respect as he did for S. After 4 months of social banter we decided it was time to take it to the next level and it became very sexual. A triad in the bedroom can be quite exciting but this was a V as he has no bi desires. We enjoyed ourselves and let the relationship grow and it has been so nice to interact with no limits or jealousies. He and I would go out for a happy hour together or him and S would spend the night together in a hotel while I kept an eye on things at home.
This all sounds very comfortable but in the last 6 months something has changed. I was fortunate enough to find an older widowed lady and started a relationship of my own. S and her younger boyfriend grew much closer and openly stated their love for each other. The three of us talked openly about it and it was a different love. S was quite clear that young boyfriend would only be that boyfriend. Her and I are until death do us part. My new girlfriend was fun and exciting until we hit the 3 month mark. She then confessed that she had fell deeply in love with me and was more mono and had no desires to share me with S. For me it was a no-brainer. New girlfriend and I broke up and the tears ensued for both of us. I returned to the V relationship with S and young boyfriend. I do not know if it is a coincidence but after that time the young boyfriend has been distant and won't even return any of my messages. S is quick to defend him that he has a busy life and just cant drop things to message me but I am talking nearly a dozen unanswered messages over a couple of months. Since then the three of us did have one meeting together and ate a meal. He informed me that he had gotten a hotel room because it had been nearly 6 weeks since we have been sexual. At least him and S. I had some hurt feelings about the lack of communication so mentioned to him that if we are to continue a relationship we need to reestablish communications or else this thing will die. He agreed but now weeks have gone by and nothing. He has told S he will be messaging me but still nothing. I explained to her that I am ready to pull the plug on this. She has no intention of ending it because according to her it is just the way relationships change over time and she still loves him.
I guess I am just venting and maybe need the therapy of writing this out to help me sort out my feelings. I don't want to be the bad guy but at times I feel like just breaking it off even if it hurts her deeply. I feel our relationship has to come first.
 
I am sorry you struggle.

I guess I am just venting and maybe need the therapy of writing this out to help me sort out my feelings.

I'm not trying to needle you here -- I am suggesting you take a time out to do some soul searching. You are feeling a lot of things, but sometimes feeling are not clear. Sort out what it is you actually feel and think.

Maybe it helps you to read things in a different way. Or from another POV. Let me repeat back what I understand so I know I got it right, ok? You correct me if I get anything wrong.

  • You, S, and her BF used to play in the bedroom together.
  • You and BF also used to be friends and hang out -- like go to happy hour together.
  • Problem: You were dating Widow for a few months, but it fell through. You are sad and want comfort. (During that time were you maintaining your friendship with BF? Or did you neglect it and it fell by the way side?)
  • Now you want to go back to the comfort of the previous arrangement -- wife and buddies with BF and sometimes sex play. (Maybe seeking support form BF and S to help you heal from widow break up?)
    • New problem: That arrangement no longer is. You find BF has grown cool. He wants to keep dating S, but not so much be buddies with you any more. He also doesn't want to be doing group sex any more. And he's not going to be giving you much "heal from widow break up" support.

I explained to her that I am ready to pull the plug on this.

Well, that is fair. You have having problems with (BF + you) friendship changing. If BF is not responsive and has grown cool, it is fair to be willing to let the friendship with BF go and pull the plug on that. Go back to grocery clerk polite. Like you are polite to a grocery clerk or bank teller, but you are not buddy-buddy with them. Not try to reach out to him any more like that and just be basic polite when you do happen to bump into him because S is dating him. Just be (BF) and (you) rather than (BF + you.)

But that's not what you mean is it?

Because you are disappointed that BF doesn't want to be buddies with you any more or share group sex with you any more or give you support? You are thinking about asking S to break up with her BF even though she loves him and the (S + BF) relationship is going well. She said she does not want to break up with him.

Is it that you are envious? You want what she has? Your other relationship folded while hers is going ok? And you want her to end it to "even the score" somehow? :confused:

Is it that you are envious? You want what she has? BF no longer wants to be tight with you but BF is willing to be tight with her?

Is it that you expected BF to be there for you even if you neglected a friendship or even if his interest has changed?

Is is that when you say "We come first" ... do you mean "I come first?"


I don't want to be the bad guy but at times I feel like just breaking it off even if it hurts her deeply. I feel our relationship has to come first.

Does this mean you guys practice a veto and you are thinking of using it even though you know it would her? Because you already asked her to dump him and she said no? And you don't like that answer so you want to make her do what you want?

How is you choosing to hurt her deeply YOU putting the (you + S) relationship first? :confused:

Is S not tending to the (you + S) relationship any more? She is neglecting you somehow? I am not hearing any complaints about that.

This post seems to be about the (You + BF) relationship. Not the (you + S) relationship. And you coming to terms with (you + BF) relationship having changed.

Is it that you are sad to deal with two break ups at about the same time?

(You + widow) relationship ended?

And now (you + BF) relationship ended? (still relationship, even though different kind)

And you would like some more support processing all that? If so, I think you could expect limited support from S because she is a person INSIDE the system. She can be supportive, but at the same time, she cannot be everything to everyone. And be your WHOLE support system. She could burn out. That is also not putting the (you + S) relationship first.

I think it is easier on all for you to seek support OUTSIDE the system too -- here, another friend, a counselor, etc. Don't make people inside the system do double or even triple duty. That adds to stress, not take away from it.

What is your desired outcome?

Galagirl
 
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Galagirl has said everything I'm thinking, much better than I could.

If you do have veto power, I'd suggest really thinking hard before using it. I'm not at all a fan of vetos for multiple reasons. First, just because your wife originally agreed to veto rights, does NOT mean she'll honor them now. She's already stated that she does not want to break up with bf. She may well refuse. Then what? Will you issue her an ultimatum? If so, best to be prepared in case it backfires and she chooses bf even if she'd rather be with both of you. Lets say she does honor the veto. Then what? Now she's hurting, bf's hurting, you're still hurting, and you may have damaged or even destroyed your relationship with wife (because you forced her to break up with someone she loved, whom she was happy with.... She may become resentful, distrustful, and angry of you for forcing her to do that.) Another reason I'm not a fan of vetos is that they are not fair to the new person and not really ethical imo, especially if the new person isn't aware there's veto power. IMO, they can end up hurting everyone involved, including the people we supposedly love.

Instead, it may be best to ask your wife for what you need: dates, affection, reassurances. And, as galagirl said, seek additional support elsewhere. Take the time to really consider what it is you're looking for in future relationships. And, then, when you're ready, consider looking for that.

JMO. ((Hugs))
 
You are in pain from a break up. That's totally understandable. You're grieving a loss.

But what you are contemplating is inflicting pain on others so that everyone is in pain, not just you. I realize this is not your conscious intent but that is what you are doing, at least in part.

When you say you think your relationship with your wife should come first what I read is your pain should be your wife's only priority. Your needs and wants are important. But this train of thought, and possible veto actions, will lead you to treat others not as full human beings, with their own internal reality, their own emotions, needs and wants, but as emotional support toys. Toys get throw away when you don't need them anymore, or they are broken. Do not treat people like toys.

This will damage you, your wife, her boyfriend, and all of your relationships. You can and should ask for reassurance from your wife. Other posters have noted the terrible costs of vetoing. But her attention, even undivided, will not ease your pain. You are grieving a loss. That takes time and cannot be avoided (at least in a healthy manner). This strategy of demanding all of your wife's attention and love will not fix what ails you.

Also, her boyfriend doesn't owe you anything beyond being polite. Responding to your emotional needs is not a requirement of metamours. That is really what you are asking of him. It's not just 'communciation.' ANd he doesn't owe you communication, beyond a very basic level, and he doesn't owe you sexual interaction (it's not clear to me what exactly happened there but he is clearly not interested in you sexually. Are you bi? That was also not clear to me.)

Read 'The Game Changer' by Franklin Veaux to get one account of what happens when someone uses a veto in a relationship.

Good luck. This is a hard situation and I hope you move through it without damaging yourself or your relationships.
 
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Hi Mr. C,

I take it that since you were willing to break up with your widowed girlfriend for the sake of your marriage with S, you feel that S should be willing to break up with her young boyfriend for the same reason. Am I interpreting it correctly?

It's obvious that you are in pain and I am sorry to hear that. Maybe just venting here gives you the relief you need. I hope so.

Sincerely,
Kevin T.
 
Many thanks to all of you for your thoughts and replies. You are all truly the support system that a person needs when dealing with this situation. It gives me many questions to ask myself and do some soul searching.
Just to be clear with everyone my wish is for my wife (S) is to find an end to this relationship but I am not putting this demand on her. I am keeping it deep within me. I never neglected the BF while dating my widow lady friend. I still texted him most days and in fact things seemed to become more light hearted. I had even opened the door further for BF and S to date more times on their own and we had even gone on a double date together once. I just feel that since my breakup I am also suffering a loss with the BF. He has nothing to do with me and refuses to return my messages. I have discussed this matter with S and explained that I feel this is rude and disrespectful on his part. She plans to sit down and have a heart to heart talk with him and get to the bottom of things hopefully. AT NO POINT have I ever put the demand on her to break up with him although currently I feel that is best. We went into this as our adventure and now this is NO LONGER our adventure. I guess if she chooses to stay with him I have to man up and accept that fact that she is in love and wants to share her life with him. Going into this we never knew what to expect but have to take responsibility for our actions. We both knew we were turning our emotions over to another person and jealousy could not be part of the equation.
Yes I feel lonely and left out but I can't take that out on them.
 
It is confusing/disturbing that BF's behavior changed, apparently drastically and abruptly. When S talks to him I hope she can get to the bottom of things. What are his reasons? It's hard to imagine him acting in a vacuum. Did he somehow panic over your breakup with the widowed girlfriend? That seems to be the moment when his change in behavior occurred.
 
yes and that is the point of my confusion. I am not trying to impose my personal wishes on S or BF even though my inner feelings are telling me now that he has slowed down in conversations with S that something changed that he isnt telling us. Yet I am not going to be the one to cause a breakup if that is inevitable. That has to be their doing or I will bear the stigma of being the cause.
The thing I do have some comfort in is her attitude that whatever we do we do together as an adventure. If fate causes us to go back to square 1 at least we will do it together as a team.
 
Thanks for clarifying your desired outcome.

  • You prefer she end it with him (what does that solve for you?). But you respect that her relationship is hers to deal with. You are leaving her relationship management things up to her and not imposing your will on her.
  • You are willing to stay in the V, and learn how to accept it naturally wants to be more of a "separate V" thing and less like a "3 muskateers triad-ish" model.
  • You want to alleviate you feelings of "left out" and "lonely."

I think some of that will dissipate on its own. You JUST broke up with someone, and some sadness is natural. The rest I think you could do something about.

He has nothing to do with me and refuses to return my messages.

I have discussed this matter with S and explained that I feel this is rude and disrespectful on his part.

She plans to sit down and have a heart to heart talk with him and get to the bottom of things hopefully.

It would be better if he was up front and said "I would like to just be polite metas. I am not able to keep up a tight friendship at this time" rather than ignoring messages. But if he isn't, you could put it out there. Something like

"I notice you are not returning my calls. I am getting the feeling your prefer not to keep up a tight friendship like before. Which is ok. So let's just be metas who happen to date the same person and be polite if we happen to bump into each other. Does that work for you?"​

Why is it S's job to deal with this? Why aren't you owning your communication with BF? :confused:

If you are annoyed or upset with BF's behavior, why aren't you talking to him directly and having a heart to heart? Asking for / just doing the direct communication you would like yourself instead of sending her?

I wonder if that is part of what annoys him and causes his retreat? You "going through S" rather than you dealing with him directly? :confused:

Or both of you coming at him for explanations a lot and because he's younger he is taking it all "parent-y" or something. And wanting to distance from that vibe.

Or it could simply be NRE wearing off for him. NRE is between 6-24 mos. for most people. Maybe he put his life on hold to get super involved with you guys, but now that he's coming off the "NRE lalas" and coming back to earth and reality he is finding he needs to attend more areas of his life to achieve personal life balance. It cannot not ALL go hang just because he has a dating life.

Don't guess or "what if" and make yourself crazy though.
  • Ask directly about the things you want to know rather than going through S.
  • Or chalk it up to relationships ever evolving and trust that any issues will come to light in its own time.

We went into this as our adventure and now this is NO LONGER our adventure.

It's still "our adventure." You guys are practicing an Open Marriage together.

Sounds you expected a model that was [(you+ s) + BF.]

Where the married couple came first, and the BF was a relationship you both shared. Maybe that made it easier to do because it felt like what you already had... just with 3 people or a bonus person on the side?

Now you are learning it is more like (you + [s) + BF].

Where S is the shared sweetie. And she has a relationship with you that is wife/husband. And she has a relationship with him that is GF/BF. And BF has a voice and feelings of his own. He might not want to just go along with whatever the married people say or want now that it's been a while and he's coming of NRE.

I guess if she chooses to stay with him I have to man up and accept that fact that she is in love and wants to share her life with him. Going into this we never knew what to expect but have to take responsibility for our actions. We both knew we were turning our emotions over to another person and jealousy could not be part of the equation.

You seem willing to take personal responsibility for maybe not having clear/realistic expectations. Or forgetting to expect BF to have feelings of his own that might change over time.

But perhaps you could also talk to wife about jealousy? Own it more, rather than disown it? Make a plan to better handle it rather than "jealousy cannot be part of the equation" like you have to stuff it away and deny it or something.

It isn't that poly people never feel jealous. IME, it's that they are more willing to feel it and deal with it up front.

http://practicalpolyamory.com/images/Jealousy_Updated_10-6-10.pdf

Maybe you and wife could read page 5 & 6 and see if any of that helps?

Yes I feel lonely and left out but I can't take that out on them.

"Lonely" gets solved with company. So people.

"Left out" gets solve with connection. So also people.

You are right that you could not take it out on them.

But you could ask wife directly for the comfort and connection you need from her. Make dates with her for fun, not just for "processing stuff." If you need more processing, could make an appointment with friends or a counselor to get things off your chest in real life.

You could also meet the need for connection yourself. Call up your other friends and set up friend dates at happy hour or whatever so you get your friend socializing in.

I hope you start to feel better in time.

Galagirl
 
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What I don't understand is why your wife's boyfriend is expected to be in constant contact with you - ? He's her bf, not yours. Sure, you liked his friendship, but is this requirement of yours some sort of wanting him to run things by you and pay respects before he is "allowed" to be intimate with your wife? Like, as if you own her? Metamours don't need to be all buddy-buddy in poly. It's kind of a swinger-ish protocol and just doesn't make sense to me, so can you explain what purpose it serves for her lover to have to check in with you regularly?
 
I see bf withdrawing from you and you don't know why. Your wife S apparently doesn't know why. The only person that knows why is bf, and so you and S (and we) are all speculating.

One more speculation: maybe you are bi (you've kind of hinted at that). You want to have daily text chats with him. You miss going out for drinks. You enjoyed the "bromance?" You have a crush on him? Kinda? But he's straight and only agreed to 3way sex if it was MFM, the wife as a bridge, no sex or strong emotions between the men?

Or heck, maybe he's got family issues going on, or work issues, or who knows what, giving him less time to spend with you, or S. It would be nice if he would just tell you.

But maybe he is afraid of losing S if he confesses to wanting a cooler relationship with you. And frankly, it seems he is right! If you can't share him with your wife, you, in your secret heart, would rather she break up with him. This is couple privilege, and a hangover from swinging, and not ethical polyamory.

You said he "got a hotel room" -- to have sex with S, since it had been 6 weeks since he even had sex with just her? Is he also cooling towards her now? Perhaps he is slowly backing out, ghosting, on any kind of relationship with either of you? He's changed his mind about the whole thing since his NRE faded? Maybe he has even found another gf...

I hope he will tell you and/or S what is going on in his head.
 
I can't even imagine a meta bothering me every day and then telling his wife I couldn't see her anymore because I didn't want to be his friend.
 
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