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  #11  
Old 08-16-2018, 03:36 AM
GalaGirl GalaGirl is online now
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Am I crazy here? I feel like I must be dreaming
I don't think you are crazy. I think since you already knew that you have difficulty reading each other/communicating well from the time with Banana? Could have spared yourself the new weird by leaving it platonic and not trying again with him.

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So what should I do? Should I bring it up again the next time we see each other in person? Should I try to just let it go for a few months, hope I get past it and and broach the topic later if it is still bothering me? Should I suck it up and recognize that he’s already said he doesn’t really want to go into detail and I should accept that answer and decide if I can live with it — and if I cannot then I need to end it with him?
Why get yourself into things that already bother you from the start? That could be your signal NOT to get into them deeper. Rather than get into them hoping it goes away later.

You needed more information than you were getting to proceed WITHOUT doubts and insecurities. It's ok if he doesn't want to say more. But then that's not meeting your information needs so you can proceed in good faith and without doubts/insecurities niggling at you. Things don't line up. So you could have decided not go there and leave it staying platonic.

I think you could learn to not pursue when things do not line up. When you see that your communication styles are not meshing well with a potential? Be more proactive/preventative in the approach rather than floating along or reactive. Save yourself the twirly whirly weird.

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I get it that hindsight is 20/20 and that he was afraid I would be upset. But if his priority is maintaining an existing relationship... why not just prioritize that relationship?
Because that might NOT be his highest priority.

His main priority might be "not making waves" -- esp if he's conflict avoidant. Or something else. Don't guess what his priorities are. Focus on YOU and YOUR priorities. Maybe one of your new priorities is to skip weirdness like this as much as possible?

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Why didn’t he do any of that?
Nobody knows but him. You could make yourself batty going in circles guessing.

Instead, you could change YOUR way of going so YOU are looking out for this now that you've been burned twice.

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He has had SO MANY opportunities to just back out of this.
So did you.

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When I asked him if he wanted to make out...
The answer was yes. He wanted to make out.

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...he could have just said, “I’m not sure if that would be the best thing for my relationship with Giraffe.”
That is an answer to a question you did not actually ask him. You did not ask "If we go ahead and make out or share sex... how would that affect your relationship with your other partners?"

He might not be thinking on that level. You seem to assume people will automatically connect the dots and bring things up themselves. If this matters to you... YOU could bring it up to protect yourself more. I think you could start asking the relevant questions explicitly instead of counting on the other person to bring it up. Not all hinges have good hinge skills.

Could start saying "Do you have any agreements with other partners that could affect me if we get more deeply involved?"

And even a more direct "Do any of your partners have a problem with you making out/sharing sex with me?"

when it gets to that place in the relationship.

The potential could still waffle around hemming and hawing about it or even outright lie to you.

But you at least are being more direct and proactive from your end to skip/reduce weirdness where possible than before.

That would be my suggestion.

Galagirl

Last edited by GalaGirl; 08-16-2018 at 10:44 AM.
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  #12  
Old 08-16-2018, 04:08 AM
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vinsanity0 vinsanity0 is offline
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Well I was way off. Is he just hooking up with partners who are not really into poly? I couldn't have a partner who tried to control my relationships by claiming to be concerned about STI like that. Laptop sounds like the type who tries to avoid any confrontation. You are not crazy to be angry that he wouldn't share that. That sucks that he would leave that dangling like that.
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  #13  
Old 08-16-2018, 09:49 AM
lunabunny lunabunny is offline
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Is he just hooking up with partners who are not really into poly? I couldn't have a partner who tried to control my relationships by claiming to be concerned about STI like that.
MsEmotional, this topic (highlighted) came up in a thread someone else posted here not so long ago about his wife's (ostensible) fear of catching something if he engaged in kissing his other partner, and I questioned the meta's motives then, just as Vinsanity did in your situation, above. Eventually, that poster did confront his wife and she admitted not wanting him to get too intimate with others out of insecurity/fear of losing him, and the STI thing was more or less a ruse.

i.e. It's possible that Laptop's partners/love interests may not be all the way on board with polyamory, at least as far as he's concerned, and are using "fear of STIs" as a way of controlling or limiting his sexual conduct with others. He may believe that their claims are the real reason... or not. Perhaps he "knows" deep down that something else is at the heart of their concerns, but as GalaGirl said, his priority may lie with his "primary" relationship/s or he may simply be conflict avoidant.

Not saying I'm right, but just food for thought. Laptop and you never quite seem to be on the same page, and for that reason I'd probably be tempted to put this one in the "too hard basket".
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  #14  
Old 08-16-2018, 12:16 PM
MsEmotional MsEmotional is offline
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Originally Posted by lunabunny View Post

i.e. It's possible that Laptop's partners/love interests may not be all the way on board with polyamory, at least as far as he's concerned, and are using "fear of STIs" as a way of controlling or limiting his sexual conduct with others. He may believe that their claims are the real reason... or not. Perhaps he "knows" deep down that something else is at the heart of their concerns, but as GalaGirl said, his priority may lie with his "primary" relationship/s or he may simply be conflict avoidant.
Part of me also feels like it is too big of a coincidence that this happened twice — with different partners — in the span of eight months. Like, perhaps Giraffe saw that the ultimatum that Banana gave him *worked* and decided to try it for herself — either because she wanted to get him to limit his other relationships without having to examine her own insecurities or because she wanted to test his investment in their relationship against what he had with Banana or what he had with me....I don’t know. It just seems particularly odd that this is such a common tactic amongst people who claim to be rather experienced with poly.

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Not saying I'm right, but just food for thought. Laptop and you never quite seem to be on the same page, and for that reason I'd probably be tempted to put this one in the "too hard basket".
And yes. Definitely done. I am just sad because the last time this happened we were able to go back to a friendship and I am feeling like that won’t be possible this time.
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Glasses: my husband of 9 years --> 35, M, Queer
Ponytail: my first-poly-date-turned-boyfriend --> 35, M, Pansexual
Whiskers: potential (guy I am dating) —> 42, M, Queer

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Ginger: Glasses' partner --> 30ish, Transgender (FTM), LDR

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Pearl: my daughter with Glasses --> 5 years old

Last edited by MsEmotional; 08-16-2018 at 12:20 PM.
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  #15  
Old 08-16-2018, 12:39 PM
JaneQSmythe JaneQSmythe is offline
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Originally Posted by MsEmotional View Post
... He said he would “prefer to leave it at ‘that’s not something I am interested in doing right now’ but that if [I] want to dig deeper [he supposes I am] entitled....but it is a bigger conversation and one that [he] would prefer to have in person.” ...
I have read the rest of the thread and realize this is a moot point now but, as most people who replied came down on the "ask" side, I just wanted to throw in that not everyone would have pursued it.

If the outcome, no PIV, was fine with me then I would have dropped the line of inquiry right there. If it was something that wouldn't bother me to know then it wouldn't bother me to NOT know. If it was something that WOULD bother me to know, then, unless it directly affects me (sexual health wise or legal issues), he can keep it to himself. My informational needs are minimal, I don't need to be putting stuff in my head that just upsets me unless there is a good reason why I NEED to know. (i.e. if you are a Trump supporter, don't tell me, because then we can't be friends).

Then again, I would probably be the one saying "no PIV" - as I have in the past. When we were with Lotus, I had a sexual thing with her husband TT - but spelled out ahead of time that I was not interested in interacting with his penis. I told MrClean: "I want to make out with you and get all hot and bothered, but we are not going to be having sex." His reply: "Wow, that was direct...OK." If either had pressed me for more info than I wanted to give, then I would just have stopped things right there.
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  #16  
Old 08-18-2018, 07:12 AM
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Originally Posted by MsEmotional View Post
I can think of lots of perfectly acceptable reasons why he wouldn’t want to have PIV with me.
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Originally Posted by MsEmotional View Post
It ended because during our STI risk chat he said he wanted to limit sexual contact with me (no oral, no PIV) because he wanted to pursue a relationship with another woman who was trying to limit *her* STI risk and considered me to be a higher potential risk than his other current sexual partners.
I would just go with the reason he gave you.
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  #17  
Old 08-18-2018, 02:03 PM
MsEmotional MsEmotional is offline
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Originally Posted by Marcus View Post
I would just go with the reason he gave you.
Was it naive of me to have thought he would have told me?

That’s the thing that is plaguing me now — was I supposed to have assumed that that’s ALWAYS going to be the one and only reason he would turn down PIV? When he told me that he didn’t want to go into it and I accepted that, did he think I was essentially winking and saying, “ok, I know the reason but I don’t want you to confirm it so I will go along with this...?”
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Amours
Glasses: my husband of 9 years --> 35, M, Queer
Ponytail: my first-poly-date-turned-boyfriend --> 35, M, Pansexual
Whiskers: potential (guy I am dating) —> 42, M, Queer

Metamours
Ginger: Glasses' partner --> 30ish, Transgender (FTM), LDR

Kids
Bug: my daughter with Glasses --> 3 years old
Pearl: my daughter with Glasses --> 5 years old
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  #18  
Old 08-18-2018, 10:33 PM
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Better too much communication than not enough communication.
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  #19  
Old 08-18-2018, 10:37 PM
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Originally Posted by MsEmotional View Post
Was it naive of me to have thought he would have told me?
He clearly doesn't view you as a safe recipient of bad news, which is most likely a mix of his own internal conflict avoidance habits, and something about how you deal with bad news.

Do you feel like you have learned from your repeated issues with this particular association?
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  #20  
Old 08-19-2018, 04:24 PM
MsEmotional MsEmotional is offline
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Originally Posted by Marcus View Post
He clearly doesn't view you as a safe recipient of bad news, which is most likely a mix of his own internal conflict avoidance habits, and something about how you deal with bad news.

Do you feel like you have learned from your repeated issues with this particular association?
We texted yesterday. He asked if I wanted to talk about it more and I told him we didn’t need to re-hash it all. That I understood what happened and I was just sad that it felt like the last time this happened we were able to go back to friendship and this time it felt like we couldn’t continue to be friends. I think he was surprised to hear that and so I explained that I understand that he is sorry that he hurt me but that I also don’t get the sense that he believes he could have done things differently — which makes me doubt his judgement and feel like continuing to be friends is setting myself up to be hurt again. We seemed in agreement that our styles are not compatible and so we parted ways.

It seemed relatively amicable, but also really....final. I am super sad. He’s pretty much the only friend I have hung out with regularly for the last year, and I had had higher hopes for where our friendship might lead. The last time we got together we were talking about other activities (non-sexual) we might do together and I was excited about that and hopeful about our friendship extending past talking about polyamory and relationships.

I have never ended a friendship like this before and it feels really crushing. Part of me feels like I am being too dramatic — that I should just go back to being friends with him and put up my emotional guards a bit. But another part of me feels like for whatever reason I am just too invested in him to be able to have good boundaries if we were to go back to just being friends. It sucks because I feel like it’s my fault. It’s not necessarily that he treats me poorly — so much as it is that he just doesn’t recognize how I want to be treated by him.
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Me: 34, F, Bicurious

Amours
Glasses: my husband of 9 years --> 35, M, Queer
Ponytail: my first-poly-date-turned-boyfriend --> 35, M, Pansexual
Whiskers: potential (guy I am dating) —> 42, M, Queer

Metamours
Ginger: Glasses' partner --> 30ish, Transgender (FTM), LDR

Kids
Bug: my daughter with Glasses --> 3 years old
Pearl: my daughter with Glasses --> 5 years old
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