Let's Talk About Sex...

And as for Adam and Eve, what about Lilith?

But before I get derailed completely - a friend of mine also has issues talking about what she likes, doesn't like, is in the mood for, etc with sex. So she has a number of index cards, on which she has written all the various kinds of things. And she takes the ones she is interested in *at that time* and leaves them on his side of the bed, so he can see them and possibly try them, without her having to talk about it at all. You said that written was easier for you - was wondering if this might be worth thinking about?
 
Sorry about that -- we were cross posting earlier. But thanks for the additional info.

I think S2 is probably where you could focus your energy right now. Deal with one partner at a time. With him you know some stuff already.

See... I wish we could do the check in thing! It doesn't happen.

Since he's asked for direction from you, could you tell him you want him to do this with you? Check in and check out before and after sex? Maybe you make a cute printable together and put it by the bed to remind you both of this new habit you are trying to make?

I know *my* comfort zones pretty well, but one of mine is staying within, or just outside, the boundaries of my partner's zone,

From S2 I got "I don't like excessive pain, but some scratching or biting is okay

Sounds like S2 could be up for texture play and you know that now. Are you up for that? If so...Go around the house collecting things that could work. Something fuzzy, something hard. Something cold like a metal spoon. Something warm like a fleece scarf. Clothes pins. Low tack painter masking tape. Maybe you have a slithery necklace chain. Or one of those balls with pointy nubs.

Whatever you have. Show him the collection so he can pull out what looks interesting. Then play with it together.

What's the cold thing like on his back? On yours? Scratch him lightly with a pencil or fork. What's that like? Bite his toes. Stuff like that.

  • You are ok with written communication
  • He's willing to read things you write and consider.

That's good!:)

If you are not up for sensory play or in addition to sensory play...

Could you write him a note asking him if he's willing to do that checklist of activities for you so you can know what else he kinda likes the idea of? And show him your list? Or do it together?

I think at this time you need to have a few good experiences where...

  • you know it's on his "doable" list, and you asking to do it later
  • it is received well and you guys try it.
  • Then you guys decide if it was fun (for one time only) or if it is (a repeat thing.)
  • And it isn't the end of the world.


The whole "bubble" of that experience (even if the thing ends up as a one off) was positive. Help you relax a bit with asking him to explore with you.

Or since you were willing to masturbate on the phone with the friend... could you be willing to masturbate while S2 watches? Or he masturbates? Masturbate each other?

The fear comes from *me*, not them, and no amount of encouragement or active listening on their part seems to help in lessening the fear.

I do want to overcome it... but at the same time, I *don't*, because of all the negative memory-voices telling me I shouldn't. So that's a complication.

What do you need from yourself to give yourself permission to let the fear go? Permission to lay some of those "ghost voices" to rest? Permission for You to be in charge of you and your choices, rather than the ghost memory voices telling you what you should and should not do?

You might bring that up with the counselor -- how to let go of "should voices" -- that's a cognitive distortion they might have more experience dealing with.

You might also explore what maintaining the fear does for you with the counselor. What does it keep you safe from?

I get that you fear being judged, but then you say your current guys are not judgmental. So it's cannot be only "judgement" in the fear bucket. There's also fear memory voices in the bucket. What else is in there? Are you able to articulate it? Then perhaps you can get that met in another way while letting go of the fear?

Could reading this about jealousy pie help? Only make it be "fear pie" and divide it up to see what parts of the fear pie are from what? Maybe the counselor can help you with that.

Maybe divide some of the tasks to stuff you can do on your own now (like suggesting texture play with S2) and stuff you want to spend more time digesting with the counselor first (like the shouldn't voice memories.)

Hopefully as you get to know your new counselor, you can get more USABLE ideas from the counselor as well. The old one didn't sound helpful.

Hang in there! Again... take it at a speed you can deal in.

Galagirl
 
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the scriptures state that Adam saw his wife and knew she was the one, he left his father and mother, and joined his 'wife' then they became one flesh. He did not join his fwb and they got closer in flesh, and then he made her his temporary wife.
The idea of becoming one flesh i sa beautiful image, although the metaphore becomes a bit more complicated when there are more partners in the picture - I usually think of it as having two hearts who are both constantly longing. My boyfriend says that I have a bigger heart than most, because I can manage to truely love two men. After we had slept together on the whole of two occations (after which I flew back to my own country), he asked how he could marry me. I almost fell of my chair on how he could take us so seriously after having known me for two weeks, of which two-three days in the flesh, but I felt the same way about him. Being already married to my husband, I knew I could not promise to marry him, but I could promise him the very best thing which was living with him part time until we could figure out what to practically do. Here we are, almost two years later, contemplating getting him a work visa to move to me and my husband. Boyfriend has been very brave to take a leap into polyamory with me. I hope to one day have a commitment ceremony with him, and secure our future legally through a lawyer. For us there is a strong link between sex and commitment, and there is nothing temporary about our arrangement.

The Bible speaks of plural relationships within a context of a man marrying two women being accepted or even the social norm. That doesn't really translate to today's monogamous society where I have fallen in love with two men and can't legally be married to both of them at the same time. It is not like having a celibate engagement and then getting legally married and consumating the marriage is an option, so I am unsure of what your point is.
 
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The idea of becoming one flesh isa beautiful image, although the metaohor becomes a bit more complicated when there are more partners in the picture - I usually think of it as having two hearts who are both constantly longing. My boyfriend says that I have a bigger heart than most, because I can manage to truely love two men. After we had slept together on the whole of two occations (after which I flew back to my own country), he asked how he could marry me. I almost fell of my chair on how he could take us so seriously after having known me for two weeks, of which two-three days in the flesh, but I felt the same way about him. Being already married to my husband, I knew I could not promise to marry him, but I could promise him the very best thing which was living with him part time until we could figure out what to practically do. Here we are, almost two years later, contemplating getting him a work visa to move to me and my husband. Boyfriend has been very brave to take a leap into polyamory with me. I hope to one day have a commitment ceremony with him, and secure our future legally through a lawyer. For us there is a strong link between sex and commitment, and there is nothing temporary about our arrangement.

The Bible speaks of plural relationships within a context of a man marrying two women being accepted or even the social norm. That doesn't really translate to today's monogamous society where I have fallen in love with two men and can't legally be married to both of them at the same time. It is not like having a celibate engagement and then getting legally married and consumating the marriage is an option, so I am unsure of what your point is.

Oh, my point was that sex shouldn't be the frame of reference in any way whatsoever. Sex is a quality of a loving relationship. Love is not necessarily a quality of a sexual relationship. Love is what is important, not sex. At least it shouldn't be, if you are the called.
 
Whatever your personal views Aphrodite, the OP is posting here about a problem pertaining to the realm of sex, not love. She loves her two partners dearly - that is not the issue here. Telling her to focus on love and not worry about the sex is about as useful as me going to my doctor with a broken foot, only to come home with my healthy arm in plaster.
 
But before I get derailed completely - a friend of mine also has issues talking about what she likes, doesn't like, is in the mood for, etc with sex. So she has a number of index cards, on which she has written all the various kinds of things. And she takes the ones she is interested in *at that time* and leaves them on his side of the bed, so he can see them and possibly try them, without her having to talk about it at all. You said that written was easier for you - was wondering if this might be worth thinking about?

Writing on index cards might. Leaving on either guy's bed, not so much. Hubby and I share a bed in a room frequently invaded by Alt, who has a stealing issue; she's trying to get past it, but she still sometimes goes into our room when we aren't home. If I left something on Hubby's nightstand, she would probably find it.

S2 doesn't have nightstands, and his "bedroom" is basically a large open space at the top of his apartment stairs which he shares with Spikes and Beads on visitation weekends. I wouldn't be able to leave anything for him where the boys might see it, which is pretty much everywhere in his apartment.

And then there is the question of which of the tens or hundreds of thousands of gods the OP might believe in, if any.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lists_of_deities

I believe in one ultimate Creator, but I think it is first of all genderless, and second of all has far more important things to do than voyeurism.

Answering GalaGirl's post in a separate response...
 
Sorry about that -- we were cross posting earlier. But thanks for the additional info.

I think S2 is probably where you could focus your energy right now. Deal with one partner at a time. With him you know some stuff already.

Since he's asked for direction from you, could you tell him you want him to do this with you? Check in and check out before and after sex? Maybe you make a cute printable together and put it by the bed to remind you both of this new habit you are trying to make?

Like I said above, we wouldn't be able to put anything anywhere because of Spikes and Beads. He doesn't have privacy, except in the bathroom, when they're with him, because of the size of his apartment. I could ask him about doing the check-ins, but printing anything and leaving it as a reminder wouldn't be possible.

I'm only at his place twice a week... overnight twice a month. I'm not able to leave anything at his place; he panicked when I asked if I could stash my spare toothbrush in one of his bathroom drawers after the second time I unexpectedly had to spend the night there due to my car breaking down. He only let me leave my bass guitar there because the boys do know we're working on music together, and it was easier than me carrying the bass back and forth.

Sounds like S2 could be up for texture play and you know that now. Are you up for that? If so...Go around the house collecting things that could work. Something fuzzy, something hard. Something cold like a metal spoon. Something warm like a fleece scarf. Clothes pins. Low tack painter masking tape. Maybe you have a slithery necklace chain. Or one of those balls with pointy nubs.

Whatever you have. Show him the collection so he can pull out what looks interesting. Then play with it together.

What's the cold thing like on his back? On yours? Scratch him lightly with a pencil or fork. What's that like? Bite his toes. Stuff like that.

I've never heard of texture play, though your post gives me enough context to guess what it is. Playing with anything at all is another issue, since one of the first things Hubby got judgmental about was me asking him to use my vibrator on me. I have trouble even admitting to either of them that I *own* a vibrator. Though that said, I bought a small flogger and S2 and I did use it once, not for flogging (because that would violate agreements I have with Hubby) but for tickling. Specifically him tickling me; he didn't seem okay with the idea of me returning the favor.

S2 also has on his dating site profile that he's turned on by the idea of tying a woman to his bed and using vibrating toys on her, and when I asked him about that he said he put it on there after I told him that's one of my "things"... a conversation I completely do not remember having with him. I don't doubt that we had the conversation, because that *is* something I'd be into; I just don't remember having it. (I have memory issues because of fibromyalgia; this wouldn't be the first time I completely blanked on a conversation that took place.)

The biggest problem with anything like that with him is the severe limits on our time together. I see him every Tuesday and every other Thursday; those nights, we only have 3-4 hours together. By the time we've had supper and he's unwound from work, and given that he likes long cuddling sessions after sex, we might have about 30 minutes to do anything sexual. If that. That isn't enough time for me to even work up the nerve to suggest trying something, let alone actually trying it.

I'm usually with him every other weekend, and sometimes we have a bit more time then, but that isn't happening this month. And for the past few months, on the weekends I'm there, we've only had sex on Sunday mornings right after we wake up, when there isn't time (or inclination, since I'm still half asleep) to try anything new.

If you are not up for sensory play or in addition to sensory play...

Could you write him a note asking him if he's willing to do that checklist of activities for you so you can know what else he kinda likes the idea of? And show him your list? Or do it together?

Maybe. I did that with Hubby at one point and it worked... until he decided he didn't want to be "constricted" by lists.

I think at this time you need to have a few good experiences where...

  • you know it's on his "doable" list, and you asking to do it later
  • it is received well and you guys try it.
  • Then you guys decide if it was fun (for one time only) or if it is (a repeat thing.)
  • And it isn't the end of the world.


The whole "bubble" of that experience (even if the thing ends up as a one off) was positive. Help you relax a bit with asking him to explore with you.

I agree with this, it's just trying to figure out how to make it happen.

Or since you were willing to masturbate on the phone with the friend... could you be willing to masturbate while S2 watches? Or he masturbates? Masturbate each other?

I kind of want to type "no" in full caps to that... The phone masturbation thing happened a few months after I left my ex, during the time when I was experimenting and exploring and was more comfortable with doing sexual things. Nowadays the thought of touching myself at all with either guy present elicits pretty strong negative reactions.

Hubby will sometimes ask me to touch my breasts when he's giving me oral, or tell me to play with my clit when he's sucking my breasts, usually in a D/s situation. I feel uncomfortable, awkward as hell, and it usually completely kills the mood, particularly since in our early days together I asked if he would want to watch me masturbate, and he said "Why would I want to do that when I can touch you myself?"

I know you're talking about doing that with S2, not Hubby, but given Hubby's initial reaction to the suggestion and the horrible way I feel when we do it now, I wouldn't even want to try with S2.

What do you need from yourself to give yourself permission to let the fear go? Permission to lay some of those "ghost voices" to rest? Permission for You to be in charge of you and your choices, rather than the ghost memory voices telling you what you should and should not do?

You might bring that up with the counselor -- how to let go of "should voices" -- that's a cognitive distortion they might have more experience dealing with.

You might also explore what maintaining the fear does for you with the counselor. What does it keep you safe from?

I have no idea. I've been trying to let go of those voices and the fear for nearly a decade now. Every time I make progress, something sets me back. In part, I think it's because Hubby is still one of my sex partners, and he's the one of the people whose judgment was most damaging to me because he promised me he *wouldn't* judge and then broke the promise. So it was a double betrayal, and I still have to deal with it because I still have to deal with him.

With the counselor, it isn't so much fear as that I'm not comfortable with her. We've only had one actual session--this morning--and half of it was taken up by her interrupting me in the middle of trying to explain things to tell me what *she* thought I was saying, followed by me finally losing my patience and telling her that if she wasn't going to let me even finish a sentence, I didn't see how she thought she could help me. She apologized, but by then the session was nearly over.

I get that you fear being judged, but then you say your current guys are not judgmental. So it's cannot be only "judgement" in the fear bucket. There's also fear memory voices in the bucket. What else is in there? Are you able to articulate it? Then perhaps you can get that met in another way while letting go of the fear?

The memory voices *are* judgment... I'm not quite sure I understand what you're getting at here. And Hubby *is* judgmental, he just tries not to be anymore. But since he has been in the past, there's a pretty strong likelihood that he would be again, at least in my perception. Fear of Hubby's judgment is based on the reality of having been judged by him before.

Unfortunately, and I realize this is a big problem, S2 is paying for Hubby's actions. I trusted Hubby not to be judgmental or negative and he was; I believed his promise that he wouldn't judge me and he broke the promise. Therefore, I don't trust S2 not to be judgmental even though--or maybe because--he made the same promise.

Could reading this about jealousy pie help? Only make it be "fear pie" and divide it up to see what parts of the fear pie are from what? Maybe the counselor can help you with that.

Right now, based on the session I've had with her, I'm questioning whether the counselor can help me at all. But as far as I can tell, *all* of the fear is based on judgment and rejection.

Maybe divide some of the tasks to stuff you can do on your own now (like suggesting texture play with S2) and stuff you want to spend more time digesting with the counselor first (like the shouldn't voice memories.)

I'm not able right now to suggest the texture play, because of time and fear.

Hang in there! Again... take it at a speed you can deal in.

Galagirl

Thanks.
 
S2 also has on his dating site profile that he's turned on by the idea of tying a woman to his bed and using vibrating toys on her, and when I asked him about that he said he put it on there after I told him that's one of my "things"... a conversation I completely do not remember having with him.

Sounds like you rediscovered another possible maybe with S2 then.

FEAR PIE

The memory voices *are* judgment... I'm not quite sure I understand what you're getting at here. And Hubby *is* judgmental, he just tries not to be anymore

I thought neither S2 or Hubby were judgmental. Thank you for clarifying that Hubby actually still is sometimes though he tries not to be.

What I meant was maybe you could be willing to try to list in percentages what your "fear pie" is made up of like that article above suggests doing for jealousy.

I am totally making this example up but...

  • 50% of the fear is from judgement.
    • With half of that (25%) coming from memory voices
    • and the other half (25%) coming from fear of hubby judging me.
  • 30% is from fear of rejection. I am afraid of my idea being turned down, even if done nicely and non-judge-y
  • 10% is from worry that I cannot think of what I want to try
  • 10% is from worry that it takes me so long to get the oomph to try again

If you break it down something like that, then perhaps you can better see what to spend time on first. I don't think it is reasonable to solve it all in one go. But in parts, maybe it becomes more manageable.

But since he has been in the past, there's a pretty strong likelihood that he would be again, at least in my perception. Fear of Hubby's judgment is based on the reality of having been judged by him before.

So... focus on S2 first?

Unfortunately, and I realize this is a big problem, S2 is paying for Hubby's actions. I trusted Hubby not to be judgmental or negative and he was; I believed his promise that he wouldn't judge me and he broke the promise. Therefore, I don't trust S2 not to be judgmental even though--or maybe because--he made the same promise.

So maybe part of the fear pie is (being afraid people will not keep their promises to you)? If so, that's good to know as another slice of the pie.

And for yourself... maybe you could do a separate fear pie chart for each guy? Some things might appear on both. But some will not. That might help you separate it and NOT have S2 paying for things hubby did?

EX:

  • S2 is willing to read written communication.
  • Hubby is not. It is not clear how Hubby is willing to receive communication.

PROBLEM SOLVING

It sounds like you, S2, and Hubby are all willing to try... but struggling on the how to implement things to try.

The first step to problem solving is identifying all that you have going on there. HOW doesn't happen till several steps later. You guys are still at step 1. I've tried to help you gather some data for Step 4 ideas -- but really you guys would do it best for your situation.

Since the guys participating in the problem solving is a "pre-problem" blocking you... perhaps looking at a visual aid might help organize conversation so it is more productive than it has been?


But not today. Could sit on it a while and think it all over for a while and rest. See what you find most doable later on. Don't be discouraged if it takes several trips around the problem solving cycle. Big problems just take several rounds.

Today sounds like it was full enough with the counselor appointment this morning though. Take a break. Baby steps. :eek:

Galagirl
 
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Whatever your personal views Aphrodite, the OP is posting here about a problem pertaining to the realm of sex, not love. She loves her two partners dearly - that is not the issue here. Telling her to focus on love and not worry about the sex is about as useful as me going to my doctor with a broken foot, only to come home with my healthy arm in plaster.

The gist I got is that this is a pervasive and ongoing problem, and that despite numerous attempts to rectify it, it continues to be a problem.

It is in that context that I advised what I did. Laying a thorn in the flesh aside is sometimes the best way of dealing with it. Often it has a multifaceted basis and needs to be tackled in other ways.
 
So... long story short. Am I the only one who finds it difficult to talk about sex with sexual partners?

Not even close.

How do you bring up sex-related stuff to your partners? How do you make suggestions about things you'd like to try when you aren't sure how your partner will react?

Begin by reframing sex from "a nasty, dirty thing" to a beutiful, wonderful thing." Embrace that. Accept that. Know that. (It's true, after all.) And then it won't seem so weird to you when you request having sex in a novel way, because even those who love huevos rancheros for breakfast will not be eating them every day of their lives -- always with the same red or green chili, always sitting in the same chair in the same cafe....

Is there any hope here, or should I just resign myself to paint-by-numbers sex with my guys for the duration?

Do you enjoy chili? I like to spice things up sometimes. How about you? Can you embrace and embody your spicyness? -- even if your fellas may take a moment to get use to it? Can you stand firm in being spicy?
 
I have no clue what gets either of the guys going. I've asked point blank for some guidance, hints, examples, anything to show me how to communicate that will work for them, and again, I get shrugs or "I don't know". Neither of them makes any attempt to communicate about sex at all, they just start kissing and groping and checking out my body language to see if I'm into it or not, and both have said they don't really like communicating about anything "because I'm a guy."

Sheesh! This is the kinda crap which makes us guys look like such dufuses.

Maybe you should lock them up with stacks of books in the basement, away from every other source of entertainment? Slip pizza slices under the door once in a while. Provide water. Wait. :D
 
Maybe teach them to talk more in the "because I like it"-type of language. It is one thing to identify with other guys, another thing to refuse to work on your relationship and blame it on your gender/body. Especially because a lot of guys would love the uppertunity to better know their woman and what she likes, and be curious about what they like. Sure you can just have one type of sex and it works, but that is like eating only Your favourite Food for dinner every day and thinking to Cook other types of Food is silly.
 
Hubby and I share a bed in a room frequently invaded by Alt, who has a stealing issue; she's trying to get past it, but she still sometimes goes into our room when we aren't home. If I left something on Hubby's nightstand, she would probably find it.

S2 doesn't have nightstands, and his "bedroom" is basically a large open space at the top of his apartment stairs which he shares with Spikes and Beads on visitation weekends. I wouldn't be able to leave anything for him where the boys might see it, which is pretty much everywhere in his apartment.
How about buying each of them a sturdy metal box that can be locked with a key that can go into their keychain or in a jewlery (something they would wear on their body). I am doing that for my old diaries, so that I am the only person who will ever have aceess to them. Kids are nosy so you have to make sure they don't get acess to all.
 
Galagirl, again, thank you so much for your thorough and helpful responses. I understand the "pie" thing a lot better now. And yeah... before I can solve the problem with either guy, we have to figure out *how* we solve problems so we can work with each other.

River, Hubby locks himself in the basement most of the time anyway. He prefers not interacting with us... his e-books and games are easier to cope with. LOL. As for the reframing, I know you're right. But I'm trying to overcome 36 years of that BS...more than that if you count the time that Hubby was at his most judgmental.

I can't accept being spicy. I can't accept having a tiny bit of salt. That's the problem. Every time I run into issues like this, I come to the--admittedly probably incorrect--conclusion that it's because I don't deserve to enjoy sex and shouldn't even be trying. Which is why Aphrodite's post made me react so strongly; she's pretty much saying exactly that, and it's pissing me off because she's using the same words as some of the people who shit all over me years ago.

Norwegian, I get what you're saying about lockboxes, but I don't think it's my responsibility to provide something like that for either guy, especially since I don't have money to spend. Alt isn't nosy; she steals because the impulse to do so is a symptom of one of her mental illnesses, and she's working on learning to counter that impulse. I guess in a way it's fortunate that she steals from me and Country, and not from stores or other people; at least we aren't going to have her arrested.

And I don't think my guys have any curiosity about what gets me going. I'm pretty sure they believe that what they do gets me going, because I appear to enjoy it. That isn't indicative of actually being turned on, though; I'm hyper-sensitive to touch, so it doesn't take much to bring me to orgasm, and even if I'm bored out of my mind or not even mentally present, my body will respond. I don't really do anything to counter their belief that they're "doing it" for me, because it's safer to let them believe they're SuperFuckMan than to tell them I would get off if they breathed on me in the right spot...they don't get angry that way.

(That's a fear thing. I don't think either of them would get angry even if they knew I wasn't really into what they were doing. But why make them feel like crap just because I do?)

Trigger warning for the rest of this post; read at your own risk...





Aphrodite... this is a pervasive problem because of SEVERE TRAUMA inflicted on me by SEVERAL people when I was a small child. Unless you think God decided I should be raped and molested repeatedly from ages 4-18 so I wouldn't think about sex, I respectfully request that you stop telling me that God's the one making me have this issue. It isn't because I don't have enough love in my life. It's because the people who should have protected me didn't, the people who should have taught me that I had worth and deserved love taught me the opposite, and the people who should never have laid hands or other body parts on me did.

If you honestly believe that those traumas were MY fault because I thought about sex... I can't finish that sentence, because I'm trying to be reasonable here. But I will say that my mother said exactly that to me. When I was FOUR YEARS OLD.

The fact that these men and I share a great deal of love is why I'm trying to fix the problem, and their love and support is the only reason I'm even able to think about sex with either of them. Love is not a problem in either relationship. Sex is, and it's because of what was said and done to me most of my life, not because "God wants you to focus on love."

This is my final attempt to be respectful to you. You've been asked by me and by others to stop trying to force your beliefs on me (and to those who've responded to her, thank you for your support!) You continue to tell me my problem is that I'm going against God's will or something, when the reality is that I'm pretty damn sure God wants me to enjoy something created to be enjoyed, and I can't because of people who warped and twisted it into something abusive and destructive.

Do you get it now?

I won't be disrespectful. I'm sure there's an "ignore" function on here somewhere, and if there isn't, I can just skip your posts. I was brought up to respect those who return the respect, and you are disrespecting me by continuing to tell me why I'm wrong. So please stop now.
 
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Hi KC43, I am glad you are trying for better sexual health. I am sorry years of therapy have not helped you much.

I think your Hubby is not a good partner for you. He sounds cold and dismissive.

Rather than trying for more and varied sex with him, I recommend stop having sex with him. It's boring, it's repetitive, it's first thing in the morning or nothing. Sure, his testosterone is high that time of day. Bully for him. Personally I rather dislike first thing in the morning sex, when my bladder and bowels may be full, I have morning breath (and so does partner), I am drowsy and just want a cup of coffee and a good shit.

You're no better than a cum dumpster to him, and that is highly insulting.

Maybe tell him, I don't enjoy this under the covers first thing in the morning sex, so I am going to stop, thankyouverymuch.

Then perhaps he will get the message something is wrong and he should LISTEN to what you say, READ what you write, and make a freeking effort here! Come on dude, it's 2015. "I'm a guy, I don't talk about XYZ" just doesn't fly anymore.

S2 sounds like a more open minded sensitive guy. I'd focus on him, or find another bf. Seek someone who LIKES to talk about sex. Those guys are out there, believe me! They like talking about sex. They like doing sex. They like trying different things. They are verbal and imaginative.

Maybe you could get another hot cyber bf at least, with whom you can type sexy things and get off by mutually masturbating. Sounds better than this mechanical shit you're putting up with now.

And there is a land (where I live) where "slut" is a reclaimed and positive word! REALLY! Yum yum, I love sex. Thank god (Yahweh or Asherah or Isis or ahem, Aphrodite) no one ever told me sex was bad. I mean, I read that some people thought that, and I just mocked them. Your relatives sound like Carrie's mom in the Stephen King book Carrie. "Dirty pillows!"

Is there any chance you have a lesbian side? Girls love to talk. My gf and I talk things to death. We are both great talkers and excellent responsive listeners. We have great sex, despite the lack of a penis in our midst. lol
 
Hi, Magdlyn, and thanks for taking time to reply to this.

Hi KC43, I am glad you are trying for better sexual health. I am sorry years of therapy have not helped you much.

I think your Hubby is not a good partner for you. He sounds cold and dismissive.

Dismissive, sometimes. He isn't cold; he's very physically and emotionally affectionate to me when he's around. He isn't around much, though...

Rather than trying for more and varied sex with him, I recommend stop having sex with him. It's boring, it's repetitive, it's first thing in the morning or nothing. Sure, his testosterone is high that time of day. Bully for him. Personally I rather dislike first thing in the morning sex, when my bladder and bowels may be full, I have morning breath (and so does partner), I am drowsy and just want a cup of coffee and a good shit.

To clarify (which I should have earlier), it's first thing in the morning for *him*. By that time, I've usually been up for 3-4 hours, because I have to get up early to get Country off to school. And he does usually get up to brush his teeth first...

I think his reasoning isn't so much the testosterone as it is timing, though...He works from 10 in the morning until midnight or later, and most nights I'm in bed by 9. So logistically, at least on the days he works, mornings are the only time available. But there are days he could come home earlier (his shift ends at 8 or 9; he chooses to stay at work to use the computer because his home computer's on its last legs), and on his days off there's no reason why he couldn't spend time with me in the afternoon or evening.

You're no better than a cum dumpster to him, and that is highly insulting.

See, I've felt that way with other partners. I don't feel that way with him. I feel bored and like things are very stale, but I don't feel like he's just using me as a place to stick his sperm.

Maybe tell him, I don't enjoy this under the covers first thing in the morning sex, so I am going to stop, thankyouverymuch.

Then perhaps he will get the message something is wrong and he should LISTEN to what you say, READ what you write, and make a freeking effort here! Come on dude, it's 2015. "I'm a guy, I don't talk about XYZ" just doesn't fly anymore.

To be fair, Hubby and S2 *both* use that excuse... it isn't only Hubby. And I have told him that, but like I said, it's partly logistics, and it isn't *my* first thing in the morning.

S2 sounds like a more open minded sensitive guy. I'd focus on him, or find another bf. Seek someone who LIKES to talk about sex. Those guys are out there, believe me! They like talking about sex. They like doing sex. They like trying different things. They are verbal and imaginative.

I've met some of those guys. They tend to get pissed off and call me a bitch or the C-word when I tell them that I'm not comfortable talking about sex. Some of them have cyber-stalked me when I tried to explain that writing FICTION about sex doesn't mean I like to cyber. I really don't; I tried that with Guy when he was my boyfriend, since we were long distance, and all it did for me was make me throw my phone across the room because I couldn't think of anything to say.

I really don't want another boyfriend. That would just give me one more person to distrust and not be able to talk to. The problems I'm having with Hubby and S2 are, I think, equally them and me; having another boyfriend, in person or cyber, wouldn't address the difficulties I have, it would only give me one more person to have those difficulties with.

Maybe you could get another hot cyber bf at least, with whom you can type sexy things and get off by mutually masturbating. Sounds better than this mechanical shit you're putting up with now.

See above... I despise cyber sex, have zero desire to talk or type sexy things to someone I'm not having sex with (or someone I *am* having sex with, for that matter), and I have no desire to listen to or watch some random dude masturbating. I don't like watching the guy I'm in bed with masturbating. Not my thing.

Right now, I'm pretty much at the point of "relationships are all bullshit and not worth the effort", so I'd rather focus on trying to improve the ones I have than trying to start another one. I suck at relationships. I own that. I wouldn't want to impose it on anyone else.

And there is a land (where I live) where "slut" is a reclaimed and positive word! REALLY! Yum yum, I love sex. Thank god (Yahweh or Asherah or Isis or ahem, Aphrodite) no one ever told me sex was bad. I mean, I read that some people thought that, and I just mocked them. Your relatives sound like Carrie's mom in the Stephen King book Carrie. "Dirty pillows!"

Is there any chance you have a lesbian side? Girls love to talk. My gf and I talk things to death. We are both great talkers and excellent responsive listeners. We have great sex, despite the lack of a penis in our midst. lol

I use "slut" to describe myself, but not as as negative; I've redefined it as "a woman who wants and enjoys sex and isn't ashamed of it" and even used it in that way--with the definition--in one of the teen novels I wrote, where the main character was being slut-shamed after an assault.

I strongly suspect my mother was sexually abused and that's what messed her up so much, but that doesn't excuse how she treated me. Despite my history, I've always done the best I could to give Alt and Country a positive, empowering view of sex.

And no... not even slightly bi.
 
And Magdlyn... I apologize if any of my response to your post sounds argumentative. I know you're trying to help and sincerely appreciate it. Things like cybering, mutual masturbation, etc. are very strongly negative things for me because of past experiences. I get angry about those experiences and therefore about the actions, and so I think I came across ranty and bitchy when I didn't intend to.
 
It's OK, KC, I see you dismissing almost everyone's considered advice. Not just mine.

Everything people suggest, you say, no, that wouldn't work because XYZ.

If you find sex offputting, maybe you should take a sex vacation. Tell the guys, dudes, this just isn't working.

And go on with writing your erotica and pleasuring yourself with your vibrator.
 
I'm considering everyone's considered advice. If something wouldn't work, should I just keep my mouth shut? Or should I pretend it will work? Not sure what you expect... this is a dialogue, in my opinion, and I process things by typing responses to what others have said. I have acknowledged the things that I can try, and have noted the things that I don't believe I can at this point.

I also have obviously not been clear in some of my posts, and am trying to clarify myself.

Sorry you feel dismissed and in turn find it necessary to be dismissive. I did thank you for taking the time to respond, and I still appreciate it.
 
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