Secondary and I think that's okay

bluemerle

New member
So here I am. Involved in a polyamorous relationship. I did an introduction in the other section but the basics are - I am a widow, I haven't been with anyone since hubby passed away. Hubby and I were sometime swingers but more interested in sort of just being with other couples and building nice relationships like that over the years. There were 3 couples that we had this with over the 17 years, and one of those couples I am still in contact with and they welcome me back to be with them anytime and we talk often but are long distance relationship.

Fast forward to a month ago. I went to a party. I met a guy. Guy and I hit it off. He tells me about his wife and he being poly and she having a boyfriend and at the end of the night, he would like to see me again.

Official Date one was talking for hours and some making out. It was cool to meet someone and connect in a few different levels.

Date two was meeting his wife. I thought there would be a couple more just he and I dates, but he said he really wanted me and her to meet and for his wife to okay us going further. We all had dinner, talked about all kinds of stuff and I felt very comfortable. They were very open about the strength and importance of their relationship with each other being a priority. She has a secondary boyfriend of a year. I would be a secondary to D, and wife is not bi (i am) so we would be an N (I just learned that term after coming here). He called me later to tell me that wife liked me and I guess approved - though he didn't say it like that.

D and I had date three last week and again, right off the bat there was no nervousness with each other. I thought I would be nervous because of the time since last time I dated and was with a man, and now. But no. It flowed well.

The relationship has escalated to wanting to be intimate and with that wanting to be careful. He and his wife has the checklist before we can be intimate. Public meeting with him and wife (done). STD testing(done). Progressive meeting to work out details. (not done yet)

While this is happening he and I can be dating. Yay.

I don't mind any of those things on the checklist. I agree with them. And feel like while they are poly, they are also a very strongly bonded couple that care about their trust and respect for each other. That's fine with me. I believe in communication.

Then came the request of proof for my tubal ligation, which I told him about when he asked about birth control. I couldn't really produce that - I had it done almost 20 years ago when I was first married and had medical issues that caused us to decide that course of action. This threw me off a bit. Even got my feathers ruffled at first. I mean, is this something people would lie about? I know he has a son and an exwife so maybe he has been burned/lied to. As I thought it out I was okay and he told me he appreciated my understanding this.

So, when I went in for the STD tests, I had the doc do an estrogen test to see I am post menopausal. I learned that I am. I haven't had a period in almost 5 years so I am not surprised, but I also did not suffer any of the 'signs' of menopause which the doc says is not unusual for a non childbearing woman. Even so, I am not going to be going 'bareback' with him for awhile - at least until things get a bit more sorted out and a relationship has grown.

Now I am going to be meeting them this coming week and it will be for the "progress" meeting. Which he said that's what it's called. A time to set up some parameters on time or set up a calendar so we all are feeling good with the relationships. Again, I am cool with this to a point but I don't want to be tossed scraps and supposed to be happy to get them. I want to have time to be able to build a relationship and have it grow.

Is there a fair way to say - gee, could we meet every -- Insert day of week here -- and then also have weekend night (friday or saturday) date?

I will throw in that I don't want to and am not sure if I could handle seeing him more than a couple times a week. I like having my own time and space. I am used to that. We talked about that and he seemed okay with it. He said he wants to make sure that his wife has her time with him and she has time with her boyfriend and he has some time for just himself too.

A friend of mine said I should be asking for tests from wife and boyfriend and I thought "really?" For me, it would seem I should trust him to know and tell me if there are issues. He went in for tests on friday so we are both on equal ground.

I don't want to be a co-wife and don't think this would be a triad. At least not at this time. A year from now? who knows. I do know that his wife is going to be a part of the relationship in that he talks to her about us - at least to some degree. I have read here that the relationship is and should be between him and I, not him, I and her. I am uncertain how to be sure of that. Or how to approach it to him.

What I also don't know how to bring up exactly is how things work if there is an event/party I want to go to with him, or if he and his wife go away for the weekend (like they are this weekend) can I have more time the next week?

It may sound odd, but I really like chatting with him online via messages and that kind of gives me my 'fix' for being in contact with him and not necessarily seeing him all the time. That is during work hours and we don't really chat or call each other at night. That may be further down the relationship trail. I can handle that.

I like him and am in total throes of NRE. I can't believe I am even thinking as much about it and not just going with it, but I guess that's my age. I will add that I am 50, D is 40 and wife is 30. Just to throw that into the mix too.
 
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I don't have any advice since I'm new to all of this and still figuring out my own stuff but I didn't want to read and run. I hope the more experienced folks here can offer you some words of wisdom. :)
 
Hello and welcome to the forum!

Not sure if I qualify as "more experienced" - only have had one experience of poly life, my MFM Vee has been together for a year and half and we just recently moved in together all three. So my experience in secondary relationships is very restricted - my poly has never been hierarchical, and my second partner Mark reached very soon a co-primary status.

Anyway, my thoughts about your story... The checklist this couple has sounds fair to me. They have been upfront about practising hierarchical poly and it is ok for you, good. STD testing is wise to do, and to ask from him as well.

The tubal ligation thing... I kind of understand him for wanting a proof, even though you would not be going bareback. That is, it is good to know the odds for a pregnancy in case a condom broke or something. Was he happy with the proof that you are post-menopausal?

My advice for your coming meeting with them... I think you should make it clear for yourself what it is that you want out of this relationship. You wrote good questions yourself in your posts. How many dates a week do you require as a minimum, how much is too much? What about when you have to skip dates because they have something else planned, do you get "extra" time with him? Can you be "out" as his partner?

Think about these before the meeting. The meeting should not be them telling you their rules and expecting you to obey. It should be also you telling them your expectations and limits, and you all negotiating, whether it is workable in practise.

Also, you should expess your limits about what is okay to be shared with his wife. Even though she is the wife and primary, there is no need for her to know each and every detail about your relationship with her husband. Think about this... what do you feel is okay for her to know, what not. It is very common that people do not share details of sex lives with metamours, for instance.

To me this relationship has started in good notes, everyone being open and communicative. Hope the coming meeting is a good one!
 
It sounds like you, D, and his wife are off to a great start. You all seem to be on the same page, and it sounds like there are open lines of communication all the way around.

As long as you are in agreement with what they do and how, and you feel it is right for you, that's the most important part.

It is a bit odd that they would want proof that you've had a ligation, but I can somewhat understand their fear of an accidental pregnancy.

Your questions about how to negotiate time together, including in situations where one of your scheduled times is affected by other circumstances, appear to be something you could easily ask D and his wife when you meet with them. From what you've said here, you have a strong communication bond with them, and I think if you simply ask your questions to them as you have here, they'll understand and answer.

Good luck, and welcome to the weird, wacky, wonderful world of polyamory!
 
Just learned we are meeting tomorrow night. I appreciate the input and especially the reassurance that things seem to be starting off well and thoughts on how to handle the meeting.

I will certainly be open to their suggestions and thanks to my reading here and of links from here, I have an idea of what I am looking for in the relationship. I think it meets what they are looking for and hope that the rest will be developed by all of our input.

I will try to update this in a day or so and let you all know how things went.
 
Hello and welcome!

First of all, I just want to extend my condolences for your loss. It does sound like you have bounced back into life with gusto, though! So, good for you. And brava! for being open to poly. I started over and embraced poly after separating from my husband (soon to be ex, when the divorce is official), and it's been an adventure.

It sounds like there is definitely chemistry and compatibility between you and this guy. What strikes me is how very organized he and his wife are about him wanting to date you - it sounds almost like you were being interviewed for a job. Glad that you asked for their test results, too - nothing should be one-sided.

Nadya made some very good points. I do believe everyone who gets involved in polyamorous arrangements, and especially "solo" unattached people, needs to get clear on and establish their own personal boundaries, and make sure that potential partners who have other relationships will respect those boundaries and not think that the fact they are part of a couple means their "rules" trump your requirements.

I think the questions you have about managing your schedules are perfectly appropriate to discuss with them when you meet again. I also think it is absolutely important for you to know the depth of their sharing information. For example, are all your texts with him private, or is she reading them as well? How much transparency are you comfortable with? What amount of privacy will you have?

Other questions to ask them is:
Does the wife have veto power?
Are there any other rules between them that will affect you?
Will you be given the space and time to allow the relationship to evolve and develop at its own pace or will you always have to be getting permission from her to be intimate with him, be able to express your feelings to him, etc., in whatever ways you want?

Other than all that, I would recommend that you take things slowly and see how it goes, like you would in any relationship. Just because you've gone through this screening/interview process, don't feel obligated to try and construct a certain kind of committed relationship with him too soon. Yes, you're in the infatuation/NRE stage, but that is just brain chemicals. Keep your feet on the ground. Remember that you and the person you're involved with are more important that the goal of achieving a poly relationship - know what I mean? If it doesn't seem to be fitting into the parameters that they or you expect it to, it may be necessary to adjust those expectations.

Good luck!
 
Thank you for the input of some excellent questions.

I did get the feeling that it was going to be almost like a job interview and it threw me off a bit but then I started thinking out how I would want to handle things if it was me and I can understand it a bit better.

I don't know how I would feel if I was told that yes, wife does have veto power. And it's a good point about allowing the relationship to develop at it's own pace instead of what she feels is right. The relationship is between him and I.

The meeting tomorrow was sort of pushed a bit forward because he starts a new job in two weeks and I start a new job in 3 weeks. I know that our time for each other is mostly likely going to change/slow down, at least till we get situated in our new positions.

Interesting side note, we did talk about previous poly relationships he has had and both his and his wife have all been with "solos" (I like that word).

What I was wondering though is do you all go to events / parties with each other as couples or as a three of you or four if there is more?

They are in a group that does some singing at faires and such. I am not a singer though at the dinner it sounded like they were trying to get me into it. She was asking and seemed interested in having me come to join in.

I would love to go to a comic convention or a party like the one we met -it was a bdsm party with a nice vanilla floor (I don't do bdsm and he doesn't either) but I went for the pool party. I love skinnydippling. LOL. But if I wonder if I went with him I think I might feel like a third wheel if wife was to come along. Well, maybe not so much if she brought her boyfriend. I believe her boyfriend is in the group.

I will note that when the three of us met for dinner, we went on to the movies. I didn't feel awkward at dinner or at the movie - he sat in the middle and held hands with both of us and it was really nice, but afterwards walking around I had that 3rd wheel feel for a few minutes. I am probably overthinking this and shouldn't worry until it comes up because who knows how it will go down and how I will feel.

I do feel very happy with my choice of a type of relationship. I know a second is not the best fit for everyone but right now, in my life, it works well.
 
Just know that, if there are certain things they insist upon as requirements that do not sit well with you, you have every right to voice your concerns, negotiate for some kind of tweaking, or not to accept their terms at all. You can also ask for some time to think things over before agreeing to anything or not.
 
Is there a fair way to say - gee, could we meet every -- Insert day of week here -- and then also have weekend night (friday or saturday) date? [...] What I also don't know how to bring up exactly is how things work if there is an event/party I want to go to with him, or if he and his wife go away for the weekend (like they are this weekend) can I have more time the next week?

The only way to find out is to talk about it.

Chops splits his time pretty much 50/50 between me and Xena, so I know this is different from your situation, but still... ask for the time you need with him, and see how it goes. We have a shared calendar set up, so we know when events are planned. Any of us can ask the other to reschedule our days with Chops on the calendars in order to align better with an event. However, sometimes it just doesn't work out... for various reasons.

For us, the scheduling (and rescheduling) has gone well - we're all pretty respectful of our time with Chops. If you don't feel you're getting the time you'd want now, then ask for it. If they say "no" then it's up to you to reevaluate if this is acceptable or not. If they say "not yet" then pick a date to renegotiate.

It is definitely fair to ask for what you'd like in your relationship with him. Hoping things work out for you!
 
Vasectomy NOW!

Ask him for proof of vasectomy. Seriously.

Proof of tubal ligation!? The rest of their steps strike me as a bit rigid but I can also see how they have this process and at least they are being upfront about it. But asking proof of tubal ligation is really offputting for me. It feels so intrusive.

Is the goal to be fluid bonded with this man at some point?

Anyway, that felt really 'off' to me.

The rest sounds fine, you seem to know what you want and can handle, they seem forthright. Good luck OP!
 
What I was wondering though is do you all go to events / parties with each other as couples or as a three of you or four if there is more?

I'm the hinge in a vee with two guys, one of which is married to me. We go to events as a three, and separately, depending on who is available and who is interested. I do my best to make sure that neither of my guys feels like a 3rd wheel, ever. If this happens, I definitely recommend figuring out what is triggering that feeling for you, so you can discuss it with your partner to make sure it doesn't happen again, or at least not often!

Honestly, if all of their rules work for you, then good. I just know I would have been appalled if I had to sit through an interview in order to date previous partners that I've been involved with, or if my husband expected to have serious input into who I was wanting to date. And we're polyfi! Some of my partners have met my husband, but those mostly were short meet and greets. My last longer term boyfriend and he would have coffee together in the mornings, but it was superficial. My husband really didn't care for him. Did he have veto - nope. He let me know his concerns and then treated my ex-boyfriend like a family guest, when he was there.

My current boyfriend, PunkRockAwesomesauce, is serious business in that he has moved in and we are talking about a commitment ceremony at some point in the future. My husband DID have veto power when it came to PunkRock moving in - harmony in the home is important - but if he had been against it, our relationship wouldn't have ended. We just wouldn't all be co-habitating.
 
Oh! I wanted to add, I don't think asking for proof of sterilization is far fetched. What if someone is lying? Of course you would hope that the person is being truthful, but how do you know? There are crazy people out there, for sure. I agree that I would ask for proof from both sides.
 
Asking for proof of sterilization might not be far-fetched, but it can feel intrusive. And as the OP pointed out, she had her tubes tied decades ago; it isn't easy to get concrete proof about something like that after that long. Medical records can get lost, particularly if you've changed providers, and sometimes things just aren't recorded. My primary care doctor is part of a completely computerized network, but when I see specialists within the same network, they apparently don't have a record (at least not available to them) of the hysterectomy I had five years ago, or the diagnoses I have.

As for going to events together... I usually go to parties and such alone. Hubby doesn't enjoy them and is generally working anyway, and Guy isn't around. S2 and I were at a party together a couple of weeks ago, but that wasn't planned as a date; it was a "Hey, we're both going to the same party, if you don't decide to hook up with someone else let's be together." (That's what I said to him. I had no interest in hooking up with anyone else, but he's trying to avoid having me be his only. Though we ended up together through the entire party anyway.) But the parties I go to are get-togethers that our group of friends and acquaintances have at bars or clubs; nothing sexual, just people hanging out together. Going alone works. Going with more than one of my partners would not, even though I met Hubby, Guy, and S2 all through that group, and it's supposedly people who are open-minded as far as sex and relationships. (Most of them aren't.
 
Again, I am cool with this to a point but I don't want to be tossed scraps and supposed to be happy to get them. I want to have time to be able to build a relationship and have it grow.

How far do you hope to have it grow? Because they're being very clear from the start that you will always be number two, she is the priority, and they have a set of rules you will be expected to follow, if you wish to be included in their august presence.

There's really only so far this relationship CAN grow.
 
Well, the evening went rather well. First, it wasn't as I had envisoned - not like a job interview or a interrogation. It started with a nice dinner and a lot of casual conversation and sharing of life experiences. Getting to know one another. We discussed previous relationships and my dog and their cat, our jobs and what D put in the delicious gumbo he made.

After dinner I made the first move and pulled out my paperwork and he shared his and everything was cool. The concern about the tubal ligation didn't even come up once they saw I was post menopausal. I guess I must have been way overthinking things, but you know, even if I was, I feel better doing that and being prepared.

We also discussed visiting and set up a tentative schedule even. That was fun. I mean the comparing of what days we have free and such. It wasn't brought up so I asked about going to events, parties and such and they said it is fine because it's something she does with her boyfriend. She then showed me pics of her boyfriend and her out at a Renn faire. Sometimes, they said, if the party is at their house then they may have people that would not understand and would like to say I am a friend but not explain the relationship. That seemed fair to me. We have enough in common as far as likes and hobbies that it wouldn't be farfetched.

I talked to them about being flexible with schedules but that I really would like a somewhat steady day or at least a weeks notice for something unless it was an emergency change (like someone being sick). He was okay with that but she was more "well, things change at my job all the time". So we talked some more and looked at the calendar and worked out some dates for the next two months and see how this goes. I told him I didn't need to see him all the time if it was too hectic at home or with work for some reason, but that I really appreciated a 'hello' text or a few minutes on the phone. They both seemed to think this was good and apparently he had issues with relationships in the past being too clingy.

The conversation went all over the place and it was interesting to listen to the two of them interact. I want to thank everyone here for thoughts and suggestions. I actually did ask a couple questions about boundaries and also about weekend visits and overnights. I hadn't thought of them till they were mentioned here. They hadn't brought it up and it was a question in my mind. Both are options as it fits into the realm of time.

In fact I was kind of proud of myself - I did remember what several of you had said - there was a discussion that started going into a whole thing about the wife and her boyfriend and a couple sentences in I said "wait, time out. I don't need to know this, that's between her, him and you. Not me." They both looked at me and then nodded. D said later that he liked that I didn't want to get into the drama. I said, "he's not my business. You and me and to some extent her, is my business." All in all I think the whole evening went well.

I walked out and I know some of this is so totally NRE but gosh what a great feeling!:)
 
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How far do you hope to have it grow? Because they're being very clear from the start that you will always be number two, she is the priority, and they have a set of rules you will be expected to follow, if you wish to be included in their august presence.

There's really only so far this relationship CAN grow.

I don't know how to answer that.

I went into this with my checklist of needs and wants- and they had theirs which they have developed from past relationships that were failures or successes. It seems both of ours matched up pretty well.

The relationship can grow. We have only known each other for a month now. I don't see why it can't and why even if he has his wife as a primary there can't be something to share with me. Isn't that what Poly is about?

And since I have no problems, no issues with being number two, and am going into this knowing that I am, what's the big deal?

My checklist is simple - I don't want to be in a relationship where we are living together and dependent on each other. I do want to be intimate and enjoy each other. I want to still have my space and my habits allowed to me. D and my relationship has met these. I have now learned that what I want and what they want are similar and we were all sitting at the table thinking 'wow this is neat'.
 
Any relationship can grow as long as there's communication and agreement.

Guy is well aware that, even though I do my level best *not* to do the hierarchy thing, Hubby has certain rights and a certain place in my life based on the fact that we are legally married, live together, have a life that includes finances and children (and cats), etc. Guy and I do not have those things.

Guy accepts that. He accepts the three agreements Hubby and I have that directly impact him, because he knows that Hubby and I have chosen from the start of this to make sure our marriage remains intact. Not because it's more *important* than my relationship with Guy, but because there are more people who would be hurt and more to lose if the marriage fell apart.

Guy's and my relationship has grown and continues to do so, because he and I communicate about the relationship and whether we're getting what we want and need from it, because he accepts Hubby's and my marriage as important, and because he and Hubby have an open line of communication as well if there are things that need to be clarified or negotiated. (Or if I decide I'm tired of playing messenger and tell them to talk to each other for a change, which has happened a couple of times.)

As long as Betts feels that D and S's relationship structure, and by extension her own relationship with D, meets her needs and expectations, there's no reason the relationship won't grow.
 
Of course a relationship that is only a month old can grow. The question is HOW FAR can a relationship grow when the option of marriage is permanently off the table? Can the relationship grow to include sharing a home and finances, children, pets, commitment to being there for one another in retirement? For some poly people, they do manage to have those things on the table. Some don't.

The point is exactly that there are LIMITS to how far it can grow. By your own admission, KC, your situation works because Guy accepts that there are limits on his relationship with you. He will never marry you, for example. It will continue to work as long as he continues to accept that you have another relationship that does in fact take precedence over him, if push comes to shove.

Betts, nobody said it's a big deal. You came here asking a question. I answered it. If you believe you'll be okay forever being number two, and if that turns out to be true, then you'll be quite happy with this.

I think it's fair to point out that as two people become closer, spend more time together, are physically intimate, and so on, it's pretty natural to begin to want more, in which case what a person thought would be 'enough' no longer is. This is a big reason why the average poly relationship is about 2-1/2 years, and why very few last longer than 5.

Yours may last for 20. I just think it's wise to go into it being aware of some things that are typical.

Best of luck to you.
 
I apologize, but for me, it seemed you were bringing up a question that wasn't part of my original post.

How far will it grow?

Honestly, at this point in my life, I am not worried about that. I don't want to be a part of his life as far as everyday living with him, sharing pets, kids, expenses.

I would like to grow from friendship to affection - love? who knows. But it would take a lot for me to want to break habits that are now 7 years in the making.

Habits of when I get up in the morning and what I eat and when I walk my dog and even, when I do the laundry or change the filter in my furnace.

2 years from now? I guess what bothered me about your post is just that I am only a month in. Heck, I may find out in another month that he snores or kicks the dog or something awful that makes me not want to see him. Oh wait. We are having our first "sleepover" next month, so we will see. :) But really, I don't know if in 2 years I will be moping around the house and sad because he is doing stuff with his wife. I hope not. I hope I can stay my pretty well adjusted self and take this for what it is. A secondary relationship. D told me last night that he had been looking for someone that was stable - emotionally and financially, that was independent. This sounds about what I am looking for also. I have had a man in my life. For many years. And for a few now I have had no one. I love the idea of dating someone and for the moment that's great. What the future holds - we will see.

I am new to this type of relationship but still feel good that I can handle things as they come along. I am certain though that there are going to be more things along the way that I will be asking questions and advice about. That's the nice thing about this forum.

Also, the meeting we had last night was called "processing" not progress like I said in an earlier post.
 
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