Trying to decide

Tri46guy

New member
So I posted an intro a few days ago but just read the book "more than two" and its opened my eyes a bit, so want to see if Im starting to get a clue yet....

My sitch: married mid 40s, wife and I have been together 25 years. Still in love, still lots of desire, romance and good sex. 3 kids, 10-15, suburbs, daily grind... both of us restless. Never been totally mono - we enjoy strip club lapdances f for me, m for her, weve done some threesomes ffm and some swinging more recently and Ive let her play when shes on trips. Ive always been attracted to other women and wanting to swing... wife only sorta interested til 2 yrs ago... met poly guy and thought poly sounded like her thing. I tried to let her date him but freaked a month in... we pulled back - did 2 years of therapy with poly friendly great therapist. Learned a ton about real communication and worked on a lot of my insecurities... Our relationship is stronger and deeper than ever. now we are swinging more and considering poly...

We have shared with each other that we want more emotional connection and growth in addition to new exciting sex. We want opportunity to experience NRE. But we dont want to lose each other or screw up what we have.. We have been asking - how can we do this to have relationships on the side without losing what we have? How do we keep our relationship primary?

After reading "More than Two" I think I get where we are wrong... Sounds like its foolish to think you can keep new relationship as secondary or light or limited.. cause the human heart doesnt work like that. Cant expect to have side playthings. Sounds like we have to expect that it *is* about rolling the dice... cant predict where it will go and if we do it we have to expect to let it elvolve where it will. New love doesnt have to mean old love goes....but it could. Cant go in fooling ourselves. We should only launch if at least one of feels we need it or if both feel the potential benefits are worth the risks...

So - do I have it right?????
 
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Hi Triguy,

I think you have the right idea. More than Two is particularly strong on the primary/secondary issue. They don't want anyone to get hurt and feel that ethics are of utmost importance in poly.

Some couples do manage to stay primary while their "outside companions" willingly stay secondary, such as when two married couples form a quad and each person remains primary to their spouse. But you have to make doubly sure that all involved parties are being treated fairly, that's the thing.

I commend you for reading More than Two, it's an important book.
Sincerely,
Kevin T.
 
Sounds like its foolish to think you can keep new relationship as secondary or light or limited.. cause the human heart doesnt work like that. Cant expect to have side playthings.

People can be more than side playthings - much, much more - without being full-time life partners.

Have you done any reading on the "relationship escalator" or "non-escalator relationships"? That's the concept that really made polyamory *click* for me. The idea that you can have deep feelings, and even a deep commitment, without needing to follow the live together/get married/have kids script.

http://solopoly.net/2012/11/29/riding-the-relationship-escalator-or-not/

Sounds like we have to expect that it *is* about rolling the dice... cant predict where it will go and if we do it we have to expect to let it elvolve where it will. New love doesnt have to mean old love goes....but it could. Cant go in fooling ourselves. We should only launch if at least one of feels we need it or if both feel the potential benefits are worth the risks

But we're all rolling the dice, all the time, when we love someone. Sure, you could decide to try polyamory, and your wife could fall in love with someone and leave you. But you could decide to be completely monogamous - and your wife could still meet someone at Starbucks tomorrow, fall head over heels in love, and leave you.

Is it more likely in poly? Hmmmm. My totally biased and unscientific opinion is that it depends less on *how* you date, and more on *who* you date.

I'm happily married, almost 13 years now. My boyfriend has been married for even longer and has two kids. Neither of us wants another spouse. We see each other once or twice a week, and we text non-stop. We do an overnight once a month on average. We've gone on one long weekend trip with my husband and have another planned. And - that's the kind of relationship we both want and need. We love each other, madly, crazily, stupidly. But we also love our families and the lives we've built.

My husband has two friend-girls. Both are single, and fiercely determined to stay that way. Both have done the marriage thing, and decided it's not for them, they value their independence. He sees one multiple times a week, the other sporadically. He goes on vacations with them (sepearately). They get freedom and a loving friend-boy; he gets a home with me, and love and fun with his ladies.

I guess what I'm saying with all this bragging :eek: is that you can have NRE and love and long term relationships without the entanglement of a primary partnership. And you can absolutely find other partners who mesh well with your current life. Just choose your partners wisely. Figure out if they're a good fit before you let yourself fly away into the NRE cloud with them ;)
 
Have you done any reading on the "relationship escalator" or "non-escalator relationships"? That's the concept that really made polyamory *click* for me. The idea that you can have deep feelings, and even a deep commitment, without needing to follow the live together/get married/have kids script.

http://solopoly.net/2012/11/29/riding-the-relationship-escalator-or-not/
Cool - I will check that out


But you could decide to be completely monogamous - and your wife could still meet someone at Starbucks tomorrow, fall head over heels in love, and leave you.
I know... But don't you think objectively that sleeping with someone regularly and opening your heart to them does indeed increase the chance a bit that you might want to live with them and change things up a bit. Again, I think I can accept the idea that since my wife and I have been together 25 years pretty happily that we do like each other and we are likely to stay together, and I've spent 2 years working through insecurities to get a place of feeling good about me for who I am and ok with who I am not. I can see the things she sees attractive about others that are different from me. I am able to accept that there are things others are better at than me and things that might be more compatible with her that others have that I don't. But I can also believe that she might just find someone that is overall better for her. I accept that is possible. And true, it could happen at starbucks or in a poly relationship. But she doesn't generally sleep with the people at starbucks or open her heart to them... Either way, I love her enough I wouldn't want to keep her from someone that is that good for her... So I'm leaning toward heading for the light. But I'm trying to accept that the light at the end of the tunnel could be a train coming the other way... Want to go in the tunnel of love with some idea of the risks...


Just choose your partners wisely. Figure out if they're a good fit before you let yourself fly away into the NRE cloud with them ;)

Sounds like a plan, but I'm not sure its so easy to predict. I'd like to think that, but I've hired a lot of people in my work, and I know its just damn hard to predict. I'm good at hiring - I can tell a lot. But I would never bet a ton of money on it either cause a lot of people have surprised me a few months in. Even with friends we have made over the years, there are many that we thought we got along with great that turned out to have major issues like alcoholism after a few years.. The guy my wife started up with is on hold with his wife as well, but that could change anytime and he could be ready to start with her... but he's not the easiest fit with me... He's very different, very dom, and not so liberal and may or may not be so respecting of boundaries. I've tried to befriend him and think I can do that, but anyway I'm not really sure what it would mean to fit him into our lives...

There are a wide array of women I find physically attractive, but only 2 in my life currently that I am interested in an emotional level - one married, one recently divorced - I'm flirty friends with both, but chances are if/when I tell them I'm in an open marriage and I'm interested in them, they may have no interest in poly... and I really honestly have no idea how either of them would' 'fit' within my life exactly.... How exactly did you figure out how to fit people into your life so well?????

Anyway, I am not shying away - I am facing this and learning everything I can to try to make sure we aren't plunging in unknowingly... But not sure I can learn to swim from a book! So maybe we just need to plunge and see what happens???

Though 10 years of swinging on and off, two years of intensive therapy with a poly focus, and reading a bunch of open marriage books probably doesn't count as 'plunging in' exactly...

So I don't know. If the wife decides it's worth the risk, then screw it, we'll try it and see how it goes. You only live once, right? At least it will make the novel of my life an interesting one....
 
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Triguy I fell into poly. Opened my marriage met a swinger & his wife, hooked up for what everyone thought would be casual fun. One year later & it's so much more. I have the love of 3 now although not romantically with Pixie as we're both straight.

Surfer & I were certainly not seeking anything more than FWB. Neither of us is quite sure how it happened. We've had rough patches with our spouses working through fear & jealousy & I'm sure there will be more issues as we go along. For now, we accept what we have, aren't looking to replace our spouses & have chosen to enjoy this experience wherever it ends.
 
By the way, it does sound like you are living the dream. Pretty cool for you.
:)
Not to take away from GFT, who has two wonderful men in her life, but a lot of us here are "livin the dream" as you say. That's what we're all about here. Yes, you'll learn a lot from experience but there is great value in getting involved in our community of people who are finding ways to allow deep and meaningful multiple love relationships in their lives. Just hanging out here and getting familiar with the "characters" and how each of us makes it work can be very inspiring for your own life.


I know... But don't you think objectively that sleeping with someone regularly and opening your heart to them does indeed increase the chance a bit that you might want to live with them and change things up a bit.
Some people do evolve into living together, but many people have deep emotional and sexual connections without any desire for domestic entanglement with that person. I know that I do!
 
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Not to take away from GFT, who has two wonderful men in her life, but a lot of us here are "livin the dream" as you say. That's what we're all about here.

And a lot of poly people would be unhappy with my poly, I think... Tri46Guy, there is a crazy variety of poly relationship situations. Some folks here are solo poly and have no interest in living with any of their partners. Others split there time 50/50 between two houses, or live with multiple partners. And everything in between :) I used to think I couldn't call myself poly because I wasn't open to living with a second partner. But now I figure, as long as everyone involved is fully informed and on board, poly can be whatever you and your partners want it to be.

As for the worries about realizing a few months into a relationship that it isn't a good fit... You either decide the relationship is worth changing your life around to keep, or you break up. Just like in monogamous dating ;)
 
Sometimes I think my ideal would be to live alone, and then spend some time with Woody and some with Hubby. Maybe if Hubby didn't actually live with me, he would spend time with me...

Sorry. Off-topic.

Anyway, if you and your wife want to keep your marriage the top priority, you do it by keeping it the top priority. I realize that sounds trite, but really, that's it. Keeping your marriage priority is a matter of *your* behavior and *your* mindset. If you and she commit to keeping it that way, and to communicating and negotiating if something changes, no one else can mess things up for you. An "outsider" can only have a negative impact on a marriage if one or both spouses allow it to happen.

When you meet potential new partners, tell them up front that you intend to keep the marriage intact. Tell them that you consider each other "primary," and that while you will treat other partners with equal respect and importance, you are not willing to find another partner to bring into your home or entangle in your lives.

I've been really fortunate with the non-Hubby partners I've had. He and I have had some issues in our marriage; they're unrelated to my being poly, and Hubby has said that when we're having a rough patch, he's *glad* I'm poly because it gives me another support source. And each of the three boyfriends I've had in the three years since poly became a thing has been exactly that: a source of not only support, but of encouragement to keep the marriage healthy.
 
Anyway, if you and your wife want to keep your marriage the top priority, you do it by keeping it the top priority. I realize that sounds trite, but really, that's it. Keeping your marriage priority is a matter of *your* behavior and *your* mindset. If you and she commit to keeping it that way, and to communicating and negotiating if something changes, no one else can mess things up for you. An "outsider" can only have a negative impact on a marriage if one or both spouses allow it to happen.

When you meet potential new partners, tell them up front that you intend to keep the marriage intact. Tell them that you consider each other "primary," and that while you will treat other partners with equal respect and importance, you are not willing to find another partner to bring into your home or entangle in your lives.
It can work like this. Or then not. Bear in mind that my advice is coming from more or less relationship anarchist point of view. I also have two live-in partners. This is what I want to say:

People change. Relationships change. You never know what future will bring to you and stubbornly clinging to some agreements that were made before any new partners entered in your lives might seriously damage all the relationships - including the one between you and your wife. Franklin Veaux gives some enlightening examples from his own life about this in his book. Some relationships do naturally want to "ride the escalator" even if not riding it would be a preferred option to start with.

I have two text-book escalator relationships going on and they both have developed very naturally. Not totally without growing pains, but... there has not been any significant drama. I also have one less entangled relationship now, and it looks like that relationship naturally stays that way.

I also want to say that you have done a lot of work before entering the world of poly and thus are most likely much better prepared than majority of us when we first started. Go ahead and explore what life has to offer you!
 
I am Nadya I have two husbands who mean the world to me. Both are on equal ground no one takes priority over the other. Things ebb and flow naturally.

Relationships do not do well when they are forced into preconceived molds. Let them be what they will be. Just don't neglect one for the other.
 
While you can never predict if feelings will arise with new lovers, I think it's perfectly reasonable to set your boundaries in terms of how much you're prepared to give and what your real-life limits are - existing commitment, time, energy, etc.

I'm partnered and I do not want another partner. It doesn't mean that I cannot love another, but simply that I cannot make an emotional/practical commitment to them. I like having "friends with benefits" because it fits perfectly with I am willing and able to give. I can be a great friend - emotional support, etc. I can also be a great fuck buddy - easy, fun, relaxed sex. I make this boundary very clear whenever I meet a potential new lover and it's worked for me so far.
 
Ok, interesting - there are very different perspectives on this... Really good discussion.

So what I'm taking away so far is:

Its not a *given* that entering into poly will have a dramatic change or a negative effect to our marriage. It *could* work out that if we are clear with each other and with new partners up front that we *could* end up with relationships on the side that are fun and loving, but maybe that don't ride the escalator all the way up. If we want to keep our marriage strong, then its up to us to keep our marriage strong. That sounds good and encouraging and makes me feel like the responsibility and at least some of the control rests with us.

It also sounds like the lessons and the ethics from others are that you should be prepared that there are limits to your control and that any party can change over time. Not surprising, but still easy to try to avoid/dismiss this thought... Sounds like some people have been put in a box and haven't liked it much or have seen the box get ripped open in a messy way with bad results... But sounds like marriages collapsing is something that can happen no matter what (of course) and that poly isn't necessarily going to be the cause though it will bring out and expose problems that already exist.

Still leaves me thinking for my situation that if we have some time and can be patient, we should learn a little more about managing our insecurities and work through thoughts about how the other relationships we have now with friends, kids, etc. don't change our relationship with each other a lot. We can keep playing in the swinging environment for run and to scratch the itch a bit, and use it to learn more about getting over insecurities and letting each other get needs fulfilled. We can keep going further with the work on our relationship and communication to be as strong as we can and have lots of good discussions about poly and maybe imagine various trajectories and how we'd deal with them...

When some things start to develop again, then we'll talk again about the expectations and the escalator, and confirm what we want, and be upfront with the third parties about what we are and aren't looking for. But we'll also be prepared (as much as we can) that things *could* change and try to be somewhat open to that while also trying to get each other to not make any rash decisions while in the thick of NRE...

So does this sound like a reasonable perspective that might make sense to both 'sides'?
 
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Sometimes I think my ideal would be to live alone, and then spend some time with Woody and some with Hubby. Maybe if Hubby didn't actually live with me, he would spend time with me...

Sorry KC. Sounds like you are hurtin a bit and sounds like you need a little more attention. Hope you tell your hubby and hope he listens...
 
Triguy, I believe you have an excellent perspective on how to approach polyamory.
 
So I titled this post "trying to decide", but I realize that I've been approaching this pretty wrong. I've been thinking about it as a decision for my wife and I as to whether WE want to do poly vs. swinging. But really what I've been doing is trying to anticipate what my wife wants and figure out how I will respond to it and trying to work on my fears/concerns about it.

Well, I think maybe I need to spend more time thinking about what *I* want since really that's what I have control over. I can keep working on my shit to be more confident/secure and to be able to communicate well and handle whatever the universe hands me.. Really I don't have any control over what she wants or what she does.

Seems like the best thing I can do after 25 years of monogamy with her is to try to shake off the pervasive ideas that I'm entitled to a primary role in her life or a certain level of love/affection/sex/emotional intimacy... I just need to really embrace the perspective that all of those things are gifts given by her that only have value if given freely... and its all gonna work out however its gonna work out. She's liked me pretty well for 25 years, so we must be pretty compatible. If adding others supplements that for either of us, then we can have our cake and eat it too. If it changes things and our relationship becomes less or secondary... well then we had 25 great years, which is way more than a lot of other people ever get.

She's a fully independent adult who can decide on her own who she wants to spend time with, how she wants to spend her money, what risks she is willing to take emotionally, physically, etc. I can communicate clearly about my boundaries about the things that actually affect me (STDS, our kids, our house, communication). But I really don't have to be all up in her business about what she does with other people. I think I've spent too much time thinking and worrying about where she is headed, and I think that's probably really counter-productive. Best to think about where I want to head, who *I* want to spend time with, and why and how. What level of risks am I willing to take? Those are probably big enough questions....

But really, its pretty hard to make a life changing decision like that.. its like deciding whether to have a baby. You can talk to other people to see what their experience was, but its different for each person really. And people who have kids will generally tell you it was worth it. People that don't have kids will tell you its not worth it. And no matter how much you listen to other people it really is nothing like the actual experience of having a kid. But once you do, its pretty hard to turn back....
 
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It's good that you're making room for your wife's autonomy. As for your personal decisions, I'm not sure how to advise you. As you said, it's too big of a decision for anyone to make except you.
 
I think I've spent too much time thinking and worrying about where she is headed, and I think that's probably really counter-productive. Best to think about where I want to head, who *I* want to spend time with, and why and how........
But really, its pretty hard to make a life changing decision like that...

The more you focus on what feels right for you, the more at ease you'll be about your wife's choices, the more you'll be able to keep allowing things to unfold. You're giving up control in your mind, which is a trendous relief and a positive step. Control is always a struggle and is what keeps us locked in those indecisive and insecure feelings. The perspective you've laid out here is a peaceful path and I guarantee it will serve you well and move you along to a place that feels good for all of you. You'll likely waver along your way, but come back to this guiding perspective and you'll keep finding your way. What feels peaceful and right for you is always the indicator that you're headed in the right direction and those around you benefit as well.

My experience is that the Decision can take awhile to unfold and that it's not an epiphany sort of thing, but more like an adventure.
 
The perspective you've laid out here is a peaceful path and I guarantee it will serve you well and move you along to a place that feels good for all of you. You'll likely waver along your way, but come back to this guiding perspective and you'll keep finding your way.

Cool - thanks for the encouraging words. Just trying out the words and concepts and hoping the actual belief in them and ability to practice them follows...
 
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