Kink vs. Emotional health

So I've run across some oddities in the kink side of polyamory. This may or may not be a sexual kink. There is a guy who wants to date me with the end goal of marrying me so that he can be a cuckhold. He claims this is someone who gets off on feelings of jealousy and anger. The side effect is that he can pursue rough sex and sexual games that intensify the feelings of betrayal.

First of all, I said no. I have no interest in marriage ever again and won't date people looking to marry "in the future." This might be bigoted on my part, but I'm willing to handle a lover marrying someone else as long as I am involved in the process whether that includes restructuring my relationship or breaking up. Those who like that I am poly but want to marry have backfired on me too many times to allow the possibility of growing back into prohibitive, or hypocritical forms of monogamy (he cheats but she can't even talk to a male).

Secondly, I'm not sure if this guy needs help or not. Don't get me wrong, he is fond of aggressive role playing where he can release his feelings of betrayal and he thinks that I would be good for him because I enjoy being the recipient of *safe* and NEVER humiliating sexual aggression. (He knows this from another person I was intimate with awhile ago and I'm a little miffed that my ex is sharing with "potential" men like a quasi-pimp). I'm not judging this man for his desires to engage in aggressive forms of "make-up sex" or punishment scripts as I believe each person can live their own kink. But I'm worried that he WANTS to feel betrayal and hurt and jealousy. He can be the aggressor in bed without punishing himself by forcing a feeling of inadequacy and anger.

Is cuckhold really someone who gets off being made to feel emotional pain? And is this healthy? This man is not a potential date and not a particularly close friend, but as a fellow veteran I feel that if there's a warning sign of emotional problems there, I would want to help him. Any suggestions or explainations?
 
Hi SheBLittle,

I'm no expert on kink, but I do believe that anything is cool that is done with mutual consent. This guy you speak of, he apparently wants to be hurt. Well, I would call that masochism. Lots of people are into it.

As for cuckolds, they are typically characterized as men who are willingly humiliated by their wives sleeping around on them. I have not heard of a "vengeful cuckhold" before, but like I said it's not a problem if it's done with mutual consent.

My suggestion would be to let this man carry on. As long as he is honest with whomever he dates, it's fine. At least that's how I see it.

Regards,
Kevin T.
 
Hi SheBLittle,

I'm no expert on kink, but I do believe that anything is cool that is done with mutual consent. This guy you speak of, he apparently wants to be hurt. Well, I would call that masochism. Lots of people are into it.

As for cuckolds, they are typically characterized as men who are willingly humiliated by their wives sleeping around on them. I have not heard of a "vengeful cuckhold" before, but like I said it's not a problem if it's done with mutual consent.

My suggestion would be to let this man carry on. As long as he is honest with whomever he dates, it's fine. At least that's how I see it.

Regards,
Kevin T.

Thanks for the insight. I've always viewed physical pain as an adrenaline thing...like a broken bone. Short healing time and one can forget the pain. That's makes me view emotional pain as far more damaging so I often fail to see emotional health for people who like negative feelings. He's being respectful that I'm not interested in humiliating him so it shouldn't be my business at this point.

Thanks again!
 
I'm not judging this man for his desires to engage in aggressive forms of "make-up sex" or punishment scripts as I believe each person can live their own kink. But I'm worried that he WANTS to feel betrayal and hurt and jealousy. He can be the aggressor in bed without punishing himself by forcing a feeling of inadequacy and anger.

I think getting off on emotions which are generally percieved as negative is at the core of (emotional) kink.
There are apparently o lot of people who get off on shame, so this might be similar. I relate to that.
I also get off a lot on feeling helpless in bed. When I like what is happening, this transforms to a clearly positive emotion to me.

BUT, there for sure can be an unhealthy element to kink.
I very much enjoyed being pushed beyond my limits (let's say soft limits, though I wouldn't verbaly give a clearly articulated conscious consent at that time, rather a weak 'no') at one time during my exploration. You can imagine it made me quite confused. This was based on internal conflict, and I think that as I got to know myself more, that kink got weakened. I am not sure this is healthy at all, rather a strong call to learn how to have boundaries.
The same with the pain and the need of some people to take about everything "for the other", even beyond the line when it brings them joy or satisfaction. I mean, you can consent to that, sure, but is it healthy? I think you get fed up with it sooner or later and change your attitude.

I think those are kind of "growth problems" or phases of exploring kink and personal growth, and going through them may help the people to overcome some other issues. After you shake those hurting parts of you, the core of the kink stayes (you may for example still enjoy pushing your limits as a masochist, but you say no if it crosses the line of satisfaction), but some of the negative emotions go (sometimes taking out some of the passion too :( ).

This might be a phase your acquitance is going through, or not. For now, getting off on betrayal is real for him. One day, he may still be a cuckold but move on from viewing this as betrayal. If this is the case, he must live through this, and odds are it will be a difficult but mostly enjoyable process for him.

I don't think there is anything to 'help' with.
 
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I've run across some oddities in the kink side of polyamory.
An interesting case, sure... but this is not in ANY way "polyamory." He's just hunting in poly territory because he thinks it'll be easier.

Now that I consider, it looks like any actual polyamory would take some (maybe all) of the "fun" out of it. :D

IME, there's any number of experienced Dommes who would be happy to slot this sorta thing into the schedule. A few random texts, voicemails, videos pertaining to stuff she's already doing -- mission accomplished.

But I can't think of even ONE who'd marry a sub just for this game. What if it changed or stopped? Disentangling would be a PITA.

However, my approval of the guy for being straightforward about it, & not waiting to spring it on a girlfriend/wife who's emotionally invested.
 
An interesting case, sure... but this is not in ANY way "polyamory." He's just hunting in poly territory because he thinks it'll be easier.

Now that I consider, it looks like any actual polyamory would take some (maybe all) of the "fun" out of it. :D

This is exactly what I think, you've just managed to be more eloquent about it!

The kinks are kinks regardless of sexual lifestyles or relationship types but the "oddity" parts aren't strange they're just multifaceted and very complicated sometimes.

As for the marriage part, that is cultural. A lot of people want the security and are willing to invest the time to ensure the security a marriage bond can procure later in the relationship. I think communication replaces the security of marriage and I (perhaps unfairly) use divorce rates to show it.

I wasn't rude or unkind to my acquaintance. I admired his honesty since men from the military that I know tend to be the exact opposite. They usually want me to be the obedient wife while they cheat on me and an overwhelming majority have claimed that it's "natural" for a woman to only be sexually attracted to one man while they are attracted to every woman they know. In my opinion that's codswallop and creates tension, jealousy and hypocrisy.

As an example, I was fine with my ex-husband's deployment affair. While it was ongoing I had little interest in finding other men as my pregnancy with his child had become complicated and I moved in with my parents for safety for the rest of it. He came home and was infuriated that I would still be poly after having "his" child and declared I was unnatural and "ungodly" while she was still having an affair. I went from disliking his other partner who had caused some drama in our military unit in the past, to hating her guts. Which was unfair since my ex had changed the dynamic in my home. I avoid these instances like the plague!
 
Anyone who talks about marriage before they've even dated someone obviously has issues. He just wants to insert whoever he meets into a pre-conceived role that he's got a fetish about. Best to forget about goals like that and just see who one is attracted to, find out if there is a rapport and mutual attraction, and let a relationship take shape from there.

Oh, and there isn't necessarily a "kink side to polyamory." One can be absolutely non-kinky and have more than one love interest or loving relationship. A "kink side" would only apply to those polyamorists who are into kink, but not all of us are. Just thought I'd point that out.
 
Yes, there are kinky monogamists, just as there are kinky polyamorists. I wouldn't say that poly has a kink side, just as I wouldn't say that monogamy has a kink side. Kink is just an option in all adult relationships, whether they involve sex or not, love or not, exclusivity or not.

I'd call cuckoldry a kind of kinky swing, not having anything to do with poly at all.

Is cuckhold really someone who gets off being made to feel emotional pain? And is this healthy?
Yes. Depends.
Thousands (millions?) of kinksters will tell you that whether getting off on humiliation and degradation is healthy is really none of your beeswax. A person can be into all kinds of kink and live a perfectly healthy, well adjusted life. Whatever this guy is into, it's really not up to you to try and "help" him and i'm not even sure how you would. He is an adult, engaging in consensual kink which might look alarming to onlookers, but to participants feels liberating and enlivening. I'd advise any and all to never try and "help" a kinkster "get healthy."
 
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Anyone who talks about marriage before they've even dated someone obviously has issues. He just wants to insert whoever he meets into a pre-conceived role that he's got a fetish about. Best to forget about goals like that and just see who one is attracted to, find out if there is a rapport and mutual attraction, and let a relationship take shape from there.

Oh, and there isn't necessarily a "kink side to polyamory." One can be absolutely non-kinky and have more than one love interest or loving relationship. A "kink side" would only apply to those polyamorists who are into kink, but not all of us are. Just thought I'd point that out.

I'm teetering on the fence about this comment here. Like...my gut nods and agrees unconditionally, and I wouldn't want to be the faceless female figure that a man gets in his crosshairs to fulfill a fantasy. But then, on the other hand, I think well....if it's valid for ME to say, "I am choosing to live a solo poly lifestyle at this time and am closed to the option of escalator style relationships, marriage planning, etc" is it not ALSO valid for someone else to say that they are looking/hoping for a relationship where they can have marriage (and cuckoldry, whatever) as a goal...? I think that it's probably for the best that he's up front about what he hopes to have in his future relationship structure, and gives prospects the chance to accept or reject those terms.

But yes, I do also get that squicky feeling "he's looking for anywoman to be the THING he wants" and that feeling agrees with what you said here.

I wouldn't go for what he's trying to do, that's for sure. Someone might. I'd also have a problem with being expected to hook up with other partners just to trigger my husband. Who is choosing these other men? And I assume that the whole "you're not allowed to develop feelings for other partners" rule would get deployed, which frankly I think is always a mistake. Will it be emotionally harmful to his future hopeful wife person to be expected to have meaningless sex and then participate in hubby's catharsis of negative emotional purging again and again? That would destroy my sexuality, no way could I do that.

So there's more to all of this than, "is this healthy of him to even want?"...there's the question of ok, if he can do this and be healthy, can he find a woman with a compatible enough kink that SHE can also do this and be healthy emotionally? I don't know. It won't be easy, though.

As to the base question, I do think that people can be pretty hardcore emotional masochists and it's not necessarily unhealthy. I once watched a scene where a woman was reduced to a puddle of tears, snot and humiliation by a Domme...the two of them had an ongoing relationship with tremendous trust, and there was aftercare, and it seemed like a very therapeutic experience for the bottom in the scene. People are into all sorts of things...but I don't blame you for declining his offer. I'd also be pissed off that my ex was sharing my personal information with others in such a way or promoting me sexually, whatever it is he's doing. I'd ask him to refrain from directing his friends to me in this way, if I were in your shoes, OP.
 
I'm teetering on the fence about this comment here. Like...my gut nods and agrees unconditionally, and I wouldn't want to be the faceless female figure that a man gets in his crosshairs to fulfill a fantasy. But then, on the other hand, I think well....if it's valid for ME to say, "I am choosing to live a solo poly lifestyle at this time and am closed to the option of escalator style relationships, marriage planning, etc" is it not ALSO valid for someone else to say that they are looking/hoping for a relationship where they can have marriage (and cuckoldry, whatever) as a goal...? I think that it's probably for the best that he's up front about what he hopes to have in his future relationship structure, and gives prospects the chance to accept or reject those terms.

.... I'd also be pissed off that my ex was sharing my personal information with others in such a way or promoting me sexually, whatever it is he's doing. I'd ask him to refrain from directing his friends to me in this way, if I were in your shoes, OP.

I agree. I've been up front about my desire to stay away from marriage so he should be able to express his end goal as well. I think he realizes that I've left room for the rejection in a manner that addresses his desire to marry and my avoidance to that. Incidentally, I'm not sexually attracted to him either. He's not without sexual or physical appeal but I don't feel that way toward him at all. I didn't tell him that though...I think a lot of women try to avoid telling men, "no, sorry, you don't turn me on."

As for the ex, that's been handled. He understands that if I were doing what he is, more women than he would want would know of his narcissistic turn and his addiction to cheating and creatively fibbing. Since I've been respectful and left him alone I demanded the same. I think he was just exerting what little control he had left and that was over a group of people I'm not even close to anymore.

Thank you for your comments though, it's really helpful to remember another perspective and that the man who requested the relationship has the right to be in support of something I wish to avoid. I appreciate the constructive side you've brought. Thanks!:)
 
. . . is it not ALSO valid for someone else to say that they are looking/hoping for a relationship where they can have marriage (and cuckoldry, whatever) as a goal...?
Of course it is! I think it is perfectly fine for someone to be marriage-minded and hoping to meet someone with whom they will eventually "settle down."

However, that didn't strike me as what the OP said in her initial post:
There is a guy who wants to date me with the end goal of marrying me so that he can be a cuckhold.
Maybe I'm reading it wrong, but it sounded like this guy wants to marry the OP before he's even dated her. As in, he met her or saw her on OKC or wherever and thought, "Oh, yes, this is the person who fits my fantasy. Let's date and head this thing toward marriage so I can be her cuckold."

Quite different from "I hope to meet someone I hit it off with, who would like to get married and is open to cuckoldry."

One is knowing what one wants and being open to possibility, while the other is trying to fit a human being into a prescribed role. Just like unicorn hunters do when looking for their Hot Bi Babes.

Like I said, I may have misread it, but the way it was worded made me think this guy is fixated on his fetish rather than being open to seeing what happens, and getting to know someone. I'm having a problem trying to clarify what I mean, Spork, but we are talking about two different approaches/attitudes, to my mind.
 
It's a bit tough for me to wrap my head around (and find language for) distinctions in this, and it's interesting to talk about, methinks.

I think that people who are basically "in the market" for new partners often get rigid, preconceived concepts of what they need and expect and demand in the relationship that they are seeking. And I think that there's a balance between having an idea of what you're hoping to find...and being so fixated on that picture of "happily ever after" that you are looking for a blank clay model of a human to smush into your mold of relationship happiness, regardless of what they might think of it.

I don't think that there is a strong distinction simply because he fixated on the OP in particular to proposition for what he wants...basically I'm seeing it as, he's got this rigid concept and he's polling potentials to see if any would be willing to step in and fit his desired lifestyle model. Of course HOW he approaches anyone with such an intent will make a big difference as to whether he's a reasonable guy who just knows what he wants...or a jerky creepy dude who skeeves women out with his obsession over this kink. Right?

There was a very nice man in our community here, one that I liked a lot, and would maybe have even agreed to date or play with. Except...he went all over Fet posting personals saying, "I'm tired of games. I need my FOREVER sub woman to marry me and live with me for the rest of my life. I am seeking true loyalty and dedication, and I'm ready to give my all to the right partner. Are you her?" He came on SO DAMN STRONG with this "I demand forever" business that no woman would touch him. Definitely I wouldn't. He's eased it up now, but it's still going to give pause to any of us who had seen those personal ads in the past...we know what he's really after. And I told him, that is a lot of pressure to put on some woman you haven't even met yet. And it places the man's needs over the woman's personhood, in my opinion. "I am entitled to a woman to love me. I don't care who you are, so long as you look nice and you'll be my property and serve my needs forever. Any female will do." It just...has that flavor.

As opposed to, "I am open to meeting people and seeing what develops. I should warn you though, that I tend to behave <this way> in relationships, and <this goal> is what I'm hoping to eventually accomplish. Might you be amenable to the notion, should it go that direction...?"

Difference maybe being, having hopes and goals...versus feeling entitled and making demands...? Maybe?

I feel like this is a fairly critical concept for me to hash out, because behavior, and communication of items on the hopes-to-expectations spectrum in new relationships is a tricky bitch for me. What is reasonable? What is respectful? What is too much, too soon? I might know it when I see it in someone else, but sometimes I'm not sure when maybe I'm doing the "too much" thing, myself.
 
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