How do I even start to explain??

Journey, I don't know if you went to the thread on our Spirituality forum that I mentioned, started by AphroditeGoneAwry...

That kind of thought control might have worked in 700 BCE or during medieval times, but in this day and age I just do not know how anyone can buy into it. I guess some people are just so afraid to think for themselves, they can't make any decisions on their own.

Thanks for your insight on your whole reply Mag, I really appreciate it. I'm working through lots of the posts in the spiritual section and learning a lot.

I don't think its always that people are afraid to think for themselves, it's just easier to be told what to think, what to believe, how to behave. Society is like that in general. It's like a security blanket. I just got to the point where it didn't make me feel secure anymore. It just made me feel inadequate and fearful and without peace. That's when I started to think for myself. I think the poly stuff goes hand in hand with that because I realised that I'm not a bad person for feeling that way and why should the church condemn me based on a book written by man??

So yeah I'm done with the church and with the Bible. I will start embracing who I actually am rather than who I have been trying to be. I just don't want to hurt people along the way.
 
I wonder what's the latest!

The latest is that I have left the church. I still need to find a way to explain it to all the people in my church as I was putting on a very good Christian front. I was in the worship team and involved in lots of stuff. So right now I'm focusing on that and focusing on finding peace. This is difficult for me because my husband wants to carry on going to church. He and I have, in the past, been on the same page and have been a team. Now we are going in different directions...It's going to be a strain.

As for the poly stuff, I still haven't told my husband. And yes I'm still fearful. I feel that he will reject me for it and the thought of pulling my family apart like that is scary. Although I still feel that I cannot ignore these feelings that I have as I have felt this way for years.....I just thought that I was 'bad'. I'll more than likely have to write him a letter to explain things. I don't do well explaining things in person and that way he can't interrupt me with questions. Question time at the end.
 
Leaving the church sounds like a wise decision. I would now encourage you to first find your inner peace and only then start explaining things to others - to the people in the church or your husband. I know, in your practical life it might be difficult or even impossible to avoid explaining or answering questions, but, you should not stress about it in this phase. Take your time!

Writing is a good idea. You can clarify your thoughts in the writing process. Also, take your time in the writing. You do not need to show the first versions to your husband. He does not need to know immediately - the time is right to tell him after you can feel a bit more secure in your new beliefs. Of course it is a big change to stop attending the church with him, and you can take one step at a time. Now stop going to the church, have the spiritual and theological discussions later.

It is important for you to grow out of the fear you still feel. It is a realistic possibility that he might abandon you due to the differences in spirituality. You could start the discussion at a point of time when you feel strong enough to cope with possible abandonment. Kind of - you probably will reach a point in your inner life where staying in the situation feels more threatening to your own health (mental and spiritual) than pulling the family apart. If you start the discussion having been prepared for the worst, and then your husband is more understanding than you thought - well, that is a nice surprise.

This kind of changes are maybe the most difficult of all. Sending you a virtual hug. (((HUG)))
 
I don't think you need to start talking about poly with anyone yet. There is going to be some backlash, I am sure, for leaving the church, if your family and other church members are going to be nosybodies and judgmental about it. And that will be enough to deal with for a while.

I don't get it, but I don't have much experience with Fundamental Christians who think that their brand of belief and worship is the only way. Which is funny because I have always considered those Fundamental Christian churches that are not affiliated with any recognized denomination like Lutheran, Episcopal, Methodist, Catholic, Baptist, etc., and only based on some general (but overly strict) idea of Protestantism, most of which were established by some independent person or organization, as fakes.

I was raised Lutheran, and when I decided to leave the church at the age of 13, before I was confirmed, no one said boo. My mother sang in the choir and our family was pretty regular at attending church (and Sunday School for us kids) every week since I was very little. Then my mother left the Lutheran church and switched to Dutch Reformed, which is related to Methodist. Nobody in the Lutheran church tried to get her to come back. People minded their own business. But I know with these independent Fundie churches, it's different and they all want you to stay and adhere to their belief systems.

So, anyway, I think you will have a lot on your plate for some time as you and your husband adjust to this change. Polyamory can be discussed once you two are over the hump of changing religious beliefs, I think.
 
The latest is that I have left the church. I still need to find a way to explain it to all the people in my church as I was putting on a very good Christian front. I was in the worship team and involved in lots of stuff. So right now I'm focusing on that and focusing on finding peace. This is difficult for me because my husband wants to carry on going to church. He and I have, in the past, been on the same page and have been a team. Now we are going in different directions...It's going to be a strain.

As for the poly stuff, I still haven't told my husband. And yes I'm still fearful. I feel that he will reject me for it and the thought of pulling my family apart like that is scary. Although I still feel that I cannot ignore these feelings that I have as I have felt this way for years.....I just thought that I was 'bad'. I'll more than likely have to write him a letter to explain things. I don't do well explaining things in person and that way he can't interrupt me with questions. Question time at the end.

If you haven't already, consider looking up forums and local support groups for people who have left fundamentalist churches. This is likely going to be a big change for you, and will probably remove many people from your support network; so, start creating a new one. People who have been through it can help you with coping, resources, ideas, and just general understanding.

For the moment, can you put the poly stuff on hold? I know it's a strong pull, but often in life we can't act immediately on the things we want because it's healthier for us to be in different circumstances before we do so. You're going through a lot, and leaving the church could be very trying in many ways. Throwing many huge, life-changing things at a spouse at once isn't usually a good idea. He is going through a lot, and giving him some processing time to deal with what is currently going on would be an act of love and compassion. In a few months, perhaps, when things have simmered down and he's seen that you leaving the church isn't a doomsday scenario, you can likely have a more reasonable chance at him having the mental resources to try and understand where you are coming from.
 
Thank you Nadya, nycindie and GreenAcres for your advice.
You are definitely right and I will put the poly-talk on the back burner. We need to explore this new version of 'life' with him going to church and me not and see how that goes.

I feel such peace about it right now. But yes the backlash is proving to be a little stressy. Interestingly enough, not from my husband. He's more keen on me working on my time management skills and getting my studying done. I think he just wants to see me being positive and happy and productive. My mom on the other hand thinks that I'm heavily influenced by the demonic... But ya know, what can ya do?! :confused:

Ill definitely be taking some time to learn who I am and what I believe. I want my peace and well-being a sense of self to come from ME, not from having security in anyone else or the church. I'm tired of being 'owned'.
 
Your mom saying you're under control by demons or perhaps... the Enemy himself! That Satan who is always behind you, on your left shoulder, leading you into temptation and sin (or wait, the Lord's Prayer asks the Father to not lead us into temptation... which is it??? *head explodes*). It's so creepy!

Has she been talking about your "dirty pillows" lately? :p (Carrie reference, for all you Stephen King fans)
 
Your mom saying you're under control by demons or perhaps... the Enemy himself! That Satan who is always behind you, on your left shoulder, leading you into temptation and sin (or wait, the Lord's Prayer asks the Father to not lead us into temptation... which is it??? *head explodes*). It's so creepy!

Has she been talking about your "dirty pillows" lately? :p (Carrie reference, for all you Stephen King fans)

Weeeeell exactly, this is one of the things I've woken up to. I don't feel like there is an enemy. I hear the church talking about being free and being released from fear and then they create this fictional fear for themselves which doesn't feel based on anything substantial. Really...I just feel sad for my mom. Because I know this will bring her down, my life choices. It's a real shame that she sees a black cloud hanging over my life.
 
You are not able to frame it as "God is calling me to do this right now" and let it be at that?

Like "speak her language" so she can chill and leave you be?

Galagirl
 
But she sees that black cloud hanging over everything. It's her black cloud, and it's not your responsibility to try to protect her from it. She's a grown woman. Give her space, and let her deal with it.

Everyone who is Christian or was raised Christian has their own take on it. As you said, it's a journey of awakening for you. If her brand of Christianity works for her, great. She has no right to impose it on you. Not any more.

By the way, history of "the devil," short version:

In the beginning, in Genesis, there is no Satan. There is a serpent. This serpent was a common symbol of Asherah (and some other Mediterranean goddesses) of the time. This would have been apparent to the audience the story was first written for. The serpent symbolized wisdom and metamorphosis. (Moses carried a healing serpent carving during the exodus!)

Here is Asherah with snakes

ASHERAH.GIF


So, at the time this story was written, Yahwists were attempting to overcome female power, and one way to do this was to discredit female deities. Of course, Eve was in communion with Asherah in the tree, they were both females. Trees of life were also common religious symbols at the time.

egyot-tree-of-life.jpg


Asherah was also invoked during childbirth, so the final blow to female power was Yahweh telling Eve she would labor in birth as punishment for taking Asherah's fruit.

Next time a "devil" crops up is in Job. The Shaytan is a member of Yahweh's heavenly court. He is sent by Yahweh to destroy Job's life to prove to Shaytan that Job will still honor Yahweh when all his children, livestock and even his health are taken from him.

No "satan" in Eden, just Asherah. No great demon "satan" in Job, just one of Yahweh's own court.

Then in 2 Kings 1, you see a reference to Baal Zebul, the god of Ekron. Later in the New Testament there is a reference to Beelzebub (Lord of the Flies), which is a Hebrew derogatory nickname for Baal Zebul. By the time of the New Testament, Baal Zebul had been turned into a demon by the priests of Yahweh.

Another conflated Satan story is "Lucifer, who fell to earth," in Isaiah 14:12. Read in context, it clearly refers to an actual Babylonian ruler.

Isaiah 14 even begins by directing this taunt at the ruler of Babylon! It clearly says that.

https://www.biblegateway.com/passage/?search=Isaiah+14&version=ESV

Lucifer is Latin for the Hebrew word Helel, the Light Bringer, which was an epithet, or nickname, of this ruler, who considered himself a god (as did many ancient rulers), and the son of the Goddess Dawn.

So, over the centuries, Hebrews and Christians have conflated Asherah (the serpent), the Shaytan (member of Yahweh's court), a Babylonian ruler (the Light Bringer), a god of Ekron (Baal Zebul, Beelzebub), to form this idea of Satan. Keep in mind also that in early Hebrew religion, there was no Satan, and NO HELL. The word "sheol" in the Old Testament means The Pit. There was no fire and punishment, no afterlife at all, until Persian religion influenced Hebrew religion in the 7th century BCE. Persian religion had a black/white, good/evil dualistic religion. This trickled down to Christianity hundreds of years later.

So, there's your Mom's enemy.
 
Well they don't teach you that stuff in church do they! Thank you for the interesting facts Mags

I told one of my church friends that I'm not attending church right now and she said "I suggest you speak to one of the leaders ASAP". It's so interesting moving away from the church mindset because you see clearly the people left in it and how they react to situations! I don't want anyone to 'lead' me in my beliefs or my life to be honest. It's MY life. Not theirs. Or am I just a rebel?!

Maybe this thread should be moved to the spiritual part of the forum as it kind of got less and less about polyamory haha
 
Interesting.
I've just been to Australia and was chatting to my sister in law , who was a strong Christian, and has given up too. The day she was ok with not knowing what happens when we die, that was the day the church lost their hold on her.

Churches use the unknown of what happens after death, to frighten us.
 
As for talking about your reasoning, I would suggest you get a copy of " the God Delusion" , by Richard Dawkins. Yes he is a bit sharp in his attack on religion sometimes, but his reasoning is solid, and will give you confidence to construct a good argument when your congregation tries to talk you into staying.

He also did a three part series for the BBC, it's probably online somewhere.
 
I told one of my church friends that I'm not attending church right now and she said "I suggest you speak to one of the leaders ASAP". It's so interesting moving away from the church mindset because you see clearly the people left in it and how they react to situations! I don't want anyone to 'lead' me in my beliefs or my life to be honest. It's MY life. Not theirs. Or am I just a rebel?!

You are just taking control of your own life. Making your own decisions. You don't have to speak with anyone and wait for their approval.

My parents don't accept my views so I just don't talk about religious things with them. It's not their business that I have left the church.
 
As for talking about your reasoning, I would suggest you get a copy of " the God Delusion" , by Richard Dawkins. Yes he is a bit sharp in his attack on religion sometimes, but his reasoning is solid, and will give you confidence to construct a good argument when your congregation tries to talk you into staying.

He also did a three part series for the BBC, it's probably online somewhere.

Haha oh gawd, my best friend at church read that age 17 ish and left the church. I couldn't understand why she would do that. Now I have to go back to her and tell her I'm sorry for thinking she was terrible for leaving church.
 
You are just taking control of your own life. Making your own decisions. You don't have to speak with anyone and wait for their approval.

I will try and hold that quote in my head as much as possible. I don't want to have theological debates, or try to be convinced. I just want to be left alone to be happy!!

Unfortunately 'people-pleasing' is one of my weaknesses. Working on it!
 
Unfortunately 'people-pleasing' is one of my weaknesses. Working on it!

It is ok to be working on it. Remember...Don't JADE.

  • Justify
  • Argue
  • Defend
  • Explain

Could that help to remind you? Like saying "NO JADE" in your head?

Whatever they say to you? Could respond short and sweet.

"Thanks. I heard you. I will take time to consider that." And let it go.

  • Confirming your ears are operational is not AGREEING with whatever it is they are saying.
  • Considering it for 1 second and tossing it aside? Well, you considered it. You were honest.

It is ok to be your own person with your own thoughts.

This is a simple chart describing Fowler stages but a quote you might appreciate:

Ironically, the Stage 3 people usually think that Stage 4 people have become "backsliders" when in reality they have actually moved forward.

You can get the longer book if you like on amazon.

Galagirl
 
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It is ok to be working on it. Remember...Don't JADE.

  • Justify
  • Argue
  • Defend
  • Explain

Could that help to remind you? Like saying "NO JADE" in your head?

Whatever they say to you? Could respond short and sweet.

"Thanks. I heard you. I will take time to consider that." And let it go.

  • Confirming your ears are operational is not AGREEING with whatever it is they are saying.
  • Considering it for 1 second and tossing it aside? Well, you considered it. You were honest.

It is ok to be your own person with your own thoughts.

This is a simple chart describing Fowler stages but a quote you might appreciate:



You can get the longer book if you like on amazon.

Galagirl

The JADE list is really helpful, thank you! I will learn that one.

The chart is also helpful, I think I jumped straight to a 5 instead of a 4 though. I think there is more out there than we know, and many people are touching on many ideas. But we'll never know, until this life ends. And we don't really need to know. I'm just very sure that the church's view on things is incredibly skewed, as shown by Mags research!

I just want to say thank you to those of you who have and are taking the time to support me, a complete stranger, in this journey of mine. It is so greatly appreciated and I wish blessings in whatever form upon you all! <3
 
Unfortunately 'people-pleasing' is one of my weaknesses. Working on it!

It was one of my weaknesses too. I'm still working on it too, at times. I'm sure you are working on it very well :)
 
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