Masculinity

River

Active member
This thread is for discussion of masculinity in general, including the concept of "hypermasculinity,"true masculinity" and other related sub-themes regarding gender, gender roles and expectations... and cultural aspects of gender roles. I almost titled the thread "Gender," but thought another thread could be created to discuss either "Femininity" or "Gender" if so desired.

I'll make another comment after posting this intro. It seems the thread's description should stand alone. My specific comment is more focussed than the thread intro itself.
 
The Mask You Live In

I just watched a "documentary" (non-fiction) film called The Mask You Live In on Netflix. A description of the film as well as a link to a trailer can be found here: http://therepresentationproject.org/film/the-mask-you-live-in/

The film basically addresses the topic of what might properly be called the toxic consequences of commonplace notions of "masculinity" -- perhaps especially as it is often conceived in American society. I found it both interesting and moving, and wondered if anyone else here has viewed it.
 
Upon your recommendation, I started the documentary and stopped at 15 minutes in. I'm the mom of two teenage boys and this documentary just breaks my heart. Thankfully, neither their father nor I have ever told either son to "be a man" or to stop crying or to not be a sissy or any number of other debilitating comments that the documentary highlights. I'm sure my boys get all kinds of messages about how they "should" do masculinity, but mommy can't really run interference for them anymore and they'd be mortified if I tried. I bank on the influence of their father, who is a wonderful role model, in my estimation - an accomplished, responsible man who is emotionally visible and available. I bless my boys every day and send them out the door with my confidence that they can navigate a social world that I will never experience.
 
I've put "The Mask You Live In" on my list of movies to see, it sounds like a good one. I watched the trailer.
 
Upon your recommendation, I started the documentary and stopped at 15 minutes in.

Did you stop watching because the content was too upsetting for you? I ask in part because I'm very interested in understanding how folks relate to / with media of all kinds. I'm taking steps to become an independent journalist and writer (by writing and publishing articles), and most of my motivation in choosing this path centers on my desire to help facilitate social change. So I'm interested in "messaging" -- or how to reach people with information and ideas. Also, I have an interest in possibly making documentary and non-fiction films in the future.
 
I've put "The Mask You Live In" on my list of movies to see, it sounds like a good one. I watched the trailer.

Cool. Please let me know what you think of it after you've seen it.
 
Did you stop watching because the content was too upsetting for you?

Yes. It was negative, negative, negative and gives the impression that we Americans are killing our boys and stealing their souls with a constant bombardment of messages that narrowly define the expectations of a male. While I appreciate the effort to inform, the documentary (or the first 15 minutes of the documentary) focuses solely on the damage, which I find unhelpful, and says nothing about how the fatherhood role has changed for the better within a very short period of time. OK, yeah, don't we already know how bad it is to tell boys not to cry? Don't we already know that using "fag" as a derogatory term is harmful in so many ways? Don't we already know that boys benefit from better role models than the Marlboro Man? Didn't we cover all of this in the last century?? The documentary points out all of the evils and does nothing to move the social conversation forward. It doesn't even touch all of the wonderful ways in which boyhood has changed in the last few decades. I'm all for truth telling, but the documentary has nothing new to say. I heard all of this by the time I got through my women's studies courses in college, which was a thousand years ago.
 
Upon reflection inspired by your words, F.A., I agree that the film could (ideally) have pointed out some of what you've pointed out, which is positive -- such as your point about how much improvement (e.g., in fathering) has occurred in recent decades. There are numerous examples of us becoming much saner and more reasonable (and kinder) with regard to gender (issues, topics).

When it comes to all generalizations about any given society, too often they are overgeneralizations. After all, "it depends". It depends on your neighborhood, your region, and your location in time. Regards the latter, I'm just past the half century mark for lifespan, and so my goggles on this (and other matters) are probably filtering a lot through the conditions I knew in my childhood and adolescence -- the so-called "formative years". It wasn't pretty. It had improved from the generation before me, though. And I think we have the feminists / women's movement to thank for that.

A vignette from my own life in passing...; this was when I was in my early twenties...; I saw a parade of elementary school kids along a boulevard where I was living at the time (American Northwest). There were maybe thirty kids. A sizeable proportion of the boys were both wearing pink shirts AND an earring in each ear! I kid you not. It really stood out for me because if I had worn such things at their age when I was their age I would most likely have been simultaneously verbally and physically beaten, followed by complete and utter ostracism. The penalty for such transgression would have been near unto death. At least. So witnessing this spectacle came as both a wonder and a joy, for none of these boys were being bullied in the least. It had become 'normal'. (Not that I want to wear pink. I don't. And one earring has been just fine for me since -- and understated one, to be sure.

Boys were not unclear about such things in my youth. We knew the repercussions. We put on a firm mask if we were inclined toward anything deemed "feminine" -- including public tears or expressions of tenderness. Or even a simple arm draped around your boy-buddy. Forget About It!

OK, yeah, don't we already know how bad it is to tell boys not to cry? Don't we already know that using "fag" as a derogatory term is harmful in so many ways? Don't we already know that boys benefit from better role models than the Marlboro Man? Didn't we cover all of this in the last century??

I'd have to say both "yes" and "no" -- depending. It can be rough out there. Even still. Seems to me.

But you're right. It's much better now. AND we have far to go.
 
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I also had to stop watching the documentary, but then returned to finish the rest. The content is hard to consume since the topics around assault come into play towards the second half. However, it is worth feeling uncomfortable and even frightened of the connection between masculinity and violence since it rings true to what is going on for young and older men in society. I would always prefer to be informed than afraid to examine the truth, but definite trigger warnings for the content around violence and sexual assault should be considered upon viewing.
 
[....] However, it is worth feeling uncomfortable and even frightened of the connection between masculinity and violence since it rings true to what is going on for young and older men in society. [....]

It's interesting that I made the opening post here just one day before the Stoneman Douglas High School shooting.

Honestly, my interest in the documentary film mentioned early in this thread was mainly focussed on how boys' and mens' lives are so often emotionally (and "feelingfully") diminished by America's traditional gender roles / expectations for guys. Male violence was less my concern. But of course these two go together, unfortunately.

I couldn't help but think of the film I'd just watched after that deadly school shooting, though. It's no coincidence that almost every mass shooter has been male. The exceptions are astronomically rare.
 
Traditional gender roles when it comes to boys and men are so damaging. When boys cry, they are often shunned or teased by their peers. Even worse, parents discourage outward expressions of both sadness and affection. Social cues are everywhere and because of this we often do not question or challenge them or their roots of origin.
 
Traditional gender roles when it comes to boys and men are so damaging. When boys cry, they are often shunned or teased by their peers. Even worse, parents discourage outward expressions of both sadness and affection. Social cues are everywhere and because of this we often do not question or challenge them or their roots of origin.

F.A. was right to point out that things have improved in recent time, and that boys / guys / men are less constrained by gender-based expectations than once we were. And it does seem to me that there are geographical differences here, as well -- both within nations and between them. But, yes, as a generality, it does seem that an awful lot of boys/men live in social contexts where it takes a lot of courage (and support) to throw off the bindings which constrain men to a narrow range of feeling and expression.

How can we provide that support? How can we encourage the courage?
 
Give birth to boys and let them have their feelings.

"Let them have their feelings" is certainly a supportive intention.

In my observation and experience, letting our kids have their feelings is also letting ourselves--as parents, care-givers or friends--have our feelings. (I'm not speaking as a parent, but it's true anyway.) Boys and girls pick up on the range of feeling and emotion which their parents allow for themselves, and take this as the implicitly acceptable range. Probably little of this process occurs consciously. It happens "osmotically".

Boys will pick up this "osmotic" resonance more strongly from their fathers than their mothers, usually, since boys are seeking to grow up into men. So the range of feeling which the father allows himself will be a big part of determining what the range of feeling of his son will likely be.

If dad is afraid of expressing his feelings, the son will likely emulate this tendency to some significant degree. What's more, the son will likely be afraid of being seen expressing emotions or feelings which the father is afraid of being seen with.

This is not merely my own personal observation. It is that; but it is also something I learned about in my reading of psychology.
 
A few scattered thoughts...

My dad ran the cemetery. It's a highly seasonal job, with very little to do during the long winter. When he couldn't pick up some construction work, he quickly got bored sitting around the house.

That's how roughneck Dad taught us to cook. :D Sifting out ingredients for a scratch-baked cake certainly didn't hurt our math skills.

Years later, it struck me as odd how few of my classmates were incapable of even making a proper grilled cheese sandwich :eek: & viewed cooking as nothing more than the Home Ec class taken by jocks to fill out their schedule.

I enjoyed being self-sufficient. By 8th grade, I liked washing (even pressing) my own clothes, & doing basic repairs; as a college freshman, I saw that most guys either brought their laundry home to Mom, or got their girlfriends to take care of it. :rolleyes:

Emotions? My family has long been known to speak their mind, good or bad. And if we'd say something behind your back, we probably already said it to your face. ;)

I grew up unafraid to express happiness, anger, sadness, fear. It wasn't "unmanly" to admit to pain, or accept defeat, or ask for assistance.
 
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