Charting Our Course

Thursday when I saw S2, things felt really off. He knew what time I was going to get there, but when I arrived, he wasn't home. A few minutes later, he texted me to ask when I was going to "stop by" and I told him I was sitting in his driveway. He was out running a few errands; he came back, picked me up, and took me out to dinner before finishing his errands, which was nice.

But it felt off, like I said. Hard to explain, but it isn't like him to forget things like what time I'm supposed to show up at his house. And the "stop by" thing still gets to me even though I know it's his manner of phrasing and not meant to imply that it's just a casual visit.

I had almost decided not to even go to his place because I had such a strong sense of "something isn't right here." I'm glad I went; I did manage to enjoy most of the time with him. But I haven't been able to shake that sense, even now.

It sounds stupid as I type it, but I've gotten it stuck in my head, based on a few things, that he's either found someone else he plans to start seeing or is now actively looking for someone else. I'm probably way off; it's probably depression fucking with me again. But as I said, the belief is based on a few external factors, not just me sitting here thinking it.

Our agreement is that if he sees someone else, he tells me. He doesn't have unprotected sex with anyone else until sexual health has been established, and he doesn't EVER cancel plans with me to see someone else. The way he's talked about the possibility or not of seeing others ever since he had that one date back in September implies that he considers me his primary.

All well and good, I guess... but when I really stop and think about it, I don't know if I'd be able to handle him seeing someone else. It's completely fear-based.

He can't tell anyone at work, or most of his friends or family members, the whole truth about our relationship. His workplace is ultra-conservative, and while they couldn't fire him solely because of his involvement with me, they could keep it in mind as a factor in considering his "job performance." He worries that his friends wouldn't understand, and he's already dealing with family drama because of his wife coming out as a lesbian, and he doesn't want to add fuel to the fire. Many of his friends, and the family members he speaks to most frequently, do know he's seeing me, but only one friend knows the whole situation, i.e. the fact that I'm married and polyamorous.

I'm afraid if he started seeing someone else, she would be single, and would therefore be someone he could talk about, and even introduce, to his friends and family.

And because of the relationship status, I'm also afraid if he started seeing someone else and she was single, that he would decide he wants exclusivity with her because that's something she would be able to give him, whereas I can't. I can be closed with him and Hubby, but I can't be with only S2.

I have talked to him about that latter fear, and he's said that right now, he doesn't want complete exclusivity, but people and their wants and needs change over time. Despite what he's said when I've brought it up, I'm still afraid that once his emotional wounds from his divorce have healed, he'll decide he wants to be monogamous again.

I'm well aware of my mental health issues. Even though I've so far managed to mostly keep them quiet and controlled around S2 (that's pretty much the only benefit of only being able to see him 2-3 times a week), he has seen me at a low point. I'm afraid if he started seeing someone else, she wouldn't be as fucked up as I am and would be easier for him to deal with, so he wouldn't want to be with me anymore.

And, along with all that... If he starts seeing someone else, I'm afraid she might turn out to be a cowgirl. S2 and I aren't in a deeply committed relationship, but a lot of the women I know (who are on the site S2 would be likely to meet someone else through) wouldn't be very happy or tolerant for long of being "one of two" in a guy's life. S2 has a good sense of people, and he isn't ignorant or oblivious by a long shot, so I doubt he would be easily manipulated. But anything's possible.

Because of my issues and my past, it is very hard for me to trust anyone fully. It's hard for me to trust most people at all, to be honest. And because of everything, for me it isn't so much a matter of wondering *if* I'll get hurt by someone in my life; it's a matter of wondering *when*. Because everyone in my life whom I've trusted to the extent of letting them past the friendship line and into my heart has hurt me. I want to believe S2 won't. He hasn't done anything so far that gives me a reason to believe he will. But I'm still just bracing myself and waiting for him to hurt me.

Ugh. My brain is a really shitty place to live sometimes...
 
Last night was an S2 night, so I talked to him about the fears and concerns I mentioned in my last post.

He told me that he's been checking out profiles on the dating site because he's "soul-searching," trying to figure out what he wants his long-term big picture to be. But he said he isn't looking to get involved with anyone else right now, and when I asked, he promised that if he decides to look, he will tell me. I told him I need that so I don't feel blind-sided if he starts seeing someone else; if I know he's looking, I'll have time to mentally prepare for the possibility of him finding someone.

He also said that right now, he thinks he needs to be alone for a while, meaning not living with anyone else, not having an exclusive relationship that could lead to living together or that would mean he's entirely "responsible" for his partner's needs, well-being, etc. (I'm phrasing that poorly, but it's like... in a relationship, you have certain responsibilities to your partner, that might include things like supporting them financially and emotionally, helping them out when they're sick, etc. S2 doesn't want to be the *only* one with those responsibilities to someone.)

He told me that what we have is very definitely working for him right now, and that's in large part because I have someone else in my life. It's less pressure on S2, because I live with Hubby, who supports me financially, and the emotional support and other aspects of a relationship are, in theory, halved for each of them because I have both of them. And he said that he doesn't care about whether he can tell his friends and family the whole truth about a relationship; that wouldn't be a factor at all in who he's involved with. He said the only person he really wants to tell about me who he hasn't yet is his mother, and he is trying to decide how to explain it to her. And he's been researching polyamory online, to understand all the ways it can work as well as to find out how people handle coming out, hiding it or not at work, etc. (I told him if he stumbles on this forum, to warn me, because there are some things in this blog thread that for obvious reasons, I'd rather he not read...)

And then he made me feel really awesome... First, he had to call his ex to coordinate Christmas with Spikes and Beads, as well as sort out their holiday break from school. Apparently she asked him about taking the boys New Year's Eve, and he told her he was going out that night. After he got off the phone, I said, "So you're not going to be home New Year's Eve?" and he said, "No, because we're going to that party." Our chat group is having a NYE party, which he'd originally said he would take me to, but last week he said he wasn't sure he wanted to go. So it made me really happy that he'd decided to go with me.

The second really awesome was even better. He's on vacation from work for the next two weeks, partly because he had a ton of vacation time he needed to use before the end of the year and partly because it's been one hell of a rough year for him, and he didn't want to cope with holidays plus work. Last night, he told me that the week of Christmas is going to be a little crazy, especially with coordinating time with the boys, and that the following week, as he put it, "I want to just relax, decompress, and not deal with other people at all. Except you." I felt so special when he said that...

I was kind of proud of myself for talking to him about my concerns--even though I apologized several times for doing so--and I was very relieved by what he said. I feel a lot better; more confident and secure in the relationship because I know that, for the next while at least, things are going to be what they are. And since he promised to tell me if he decides to start looking for someone else, I can let go of my worries about that unless/until he says he's doing so.
 
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I fucked up... it isn't a huge fuck-up, but still.

When I started seeing S2, meaning I had a partner with whom I would be having sex regularly, Hubby asked me to keep one particular sexual position exclusive between him and me. I agreed, because it isn't a position any of my previous partners had ever tried or suggested, so I didn't think there was much chance of S2 thinking of it.

Lately I'd realized that with S2, sex had become kind of "paint by numbers". Touch here, kiss there, fondle here, suck there, fall on bed with him on top, penetration. Just about every time. He almost never does anything differently, which I think in large part is due to him having been involved with his ex-wife for at least 16-17 years. They probably kind of got into a routine, and whether they did or not, after that amount of time S2 is kind of out of practice with sexual variety...

I wanted to change things up, but I have a very hard time asking for or suggesting anything sexual; the voices from my past telling me that sex is bad and wrong and I'm bad and wrong for wanting it or asking for it get very loud whenever I try to be aggressive or even assertive sexually.

Unfortunately, Hubby's voice is one of those. He never told me I was bad or wrong, but in the early part of our relationship, any time I suggested something new (car sex, outdoor sex, using toys, etc.) he would make extremely judgy comments like "Only people without beds do that" or "That's just for teenagers" or "Why would anyone want to do something like that?" which led me to *believe* there was something wrong with the idea and therefore something wrong with me for thinking of it.

I confronted Hubby about that a little while back. He apologized and said that what he'd meant was that *he* didn't want to do those things, and part of him felt like there was something wrong with him for *not* wanting to, so he responded from that and was judgy instead of just saying "I'd rather not do that." He also told me I should have told him back then to stop being an asshole, but I pointed out that at that time, he was the only template I had for what was okay or not okay sexually, and so I was going by his words and reactions.

Before I met him, I'd corrected a lot of the bullshit I had in my head about sex, but then after I got involved with Hubby, he undid most of the work I'd done, and put me back where I was when I left my ex-husband. And even though Hubby has said he regrets doing that and wishes he could fix it... apologies don't fix things, and that shit is still in my head making me afraid to even talk to a partner--in this case, S2--about our sex life, because "What if he thinks I'm bad?"

So anyway...

I talked a little with my friend Speed about the situation. He suggested some positions and such. Some of them were positions S2 and I had tried that didn't work for one reason or another (mainly because I"m physically awkward as hell). I wasn't willing to suggest anything that hasn't been tried, because suggesting. And then Speed said I should get lingerie, which pissed me off because to me, lingerie is a waste of money. I believe I look disgusting and hideous in it, and Hubby also thinks it's a waste because he doesn't like it, he just wants it off so he can fuck. Knowing S2, I had a feeling he would think the same way.

So Thursday, I brought up the lingerie thing to S2--who responded exactly the way I'd predicted he would. Segued from that into talking about trying different things, but of course he asked me what I wanted to try and I froze, because I had no fucking clue. And then he said if I couldn't talk about it, I could just do what I wanted, but that was completely not okay with me because not only would I freeze, but to me, that treads way too closely to nonconsent, because he can't consent to me doing something he doesn't know I'm going to do.

So he did take some initiative to try a couple of different positions. Unfortunately, one of them was the one I'd promised Hubby I wouldn't do with anyone else. And even realizing that, I let S2 do it...

So now I've broken a promise, and I'm really angry with myself for it. I don't break promises generally. That isn't who I am.

And I don't know what if anything to do about it... If I tell Hubby, he'll be upset, rightly so. If I tell S2 that I shouldn't have done that position, he'll be upset that I wasn't honest with him about it at the time. I did tell him that I don't want to do that position again, but I said it was because it was physically painful and made it almost impossible for me to breathe, which was true.

If I keep it to myself, I'll know I fucked up and will make more of an effort not to do it again...
 
Ouch - that sucks. But it did happen and now you have to deal with it the best you can.:cool:

I'm going to offer my opinion as to what I think would be the best course of action - which you are completely free to IGNORE!

(As a preamble - we don't have any agreements about when/where/what can happen during sex with our other partners - other than protection agreements. There are certain sex acts that I, personally, won't perform and that I specifically DON'T want to hear about if they happen with other partners. Not that I need any details anyway...)

I have screwed up on occasion ... BIG TIME x 1 (read blog for details) but a few other times that were more along the lines of where you are at. My advise is come clean ASAP. You screwed up, you know it. Yes, hubs will likely be upset - but it might not, now, be as huge of deal as it was when you made the agreement (i.e. he may find that it doesn't bother him as much as he thought it would). BUT, the longer you go without telling him the worse it will be and that will only re-enforce your "sex=bad" issue.

Now you can preface you disclosure by asking him to be gentle with you - and bring up your past experiences where his response was harmful to you and he regretted it later. "Hubs, I need to talk to you, but it is REALLY hard for me because, in the past, when I've talked to you about sex stuff you said things that harmed me, that you later regretted."

Once he has processed that you give him the "bare bones" objective version of what happened. Leave out the whys and wherefores unless he asks. "The other night I broke a promise to you, and I feel terrible about it. We had agreed that I wouldn't do X position with anyone else - and I did."

Then you let him respond - keeping in mind that his initial response may be more vehement than his later, calmed down/thinking about it, response will be.

Then the two of you hash it out and deal with it. (Taking breaks as necessary!)

Once things have been worked out with Hubs, I would also clear the air with S2. "Dude, I'm sorry to involve you in this, but I think that you need to know that I screwed up the other day. When we did X, I was breaking a promise that I had made to Hubs - we've talked about it and he is a.) totally freaked, b.) upset but forgiving, c.) unconcerned (whatever applies)."

Once he has processed that - "I want you to know that you did NOT do anything wrong, you didn't know that I had that agreement with Hubs (although in hind-sight I probably should have told you that so that you could help me keep my agreements). I'm sorry."

Then the two of you hash it out and deal with it. (Taking breaks as necessary!)

You make your confession, you take your licks, you (internally) resolve to never put you (or them) in that position again - then you DO it.

You are not responsible for their reactions - only for your actions.

The alternative - not telling either of them about it and taking the secret to your grave while beating yourself up over a mistake? Non-ideal - will always be a barrier to intimacy in your own mind ("They think they love me but if they knew THIS...blah-blah-blah") Being honest and owning your mistake at least opens the possibility of forgiveness - as scary of a prospect as that is.

Jane("my-two-cents")Q
 
Thanks for your input, Jane :)

I think I've decided to keep it to myself this time and chalk it up as "I fucked up and now I will learn from it." I had the beginnings of a discussion with Hubby last night, in which he was actually supportive, but I stopped short of being able to tell him what I'd done.

I deal a whole lot better with guilt than with fear. I'm used to feeling both emotions, but guilt within myself is better than fear of Hubby or S2, and I would be pretty much terrified if I tried to talk to either of them about the situation. I don't mean just "I'm afraid they're going to be angry"... I mean I start envisioning Hubby kicking me out of the house, someone screaming at me, calling me names, throwing things, etc. And even though I know that isn't a rational fear with either of these guys, it was an almost daily occurrence--usually without any specific reason--with my ex-husband, and having lived with over 14 years of it, I can't always reason my way out of fearing that type of reaction or behavior from Hubby or S2. PTSD and anxiety disorder are NOT rational...

Additionally, Hubby does not like to discuss things. At all. Getting him to sit down and actually discuss an issue is like persuading a cat to walk a tightrope, and the effort and energy I have to put into getting him to agree to even have a discussion fuels my anxiety and anger, which puts me in completely the opposite of the frame of mind I need to be able to talk calmly and rationally.

S2... I don't know about his discussion habits. I'm still learning; until recently, as detailed in this blog, I didn't even know for sure whether I could discuss our relationship with him. And he's told me that he doesn't do confrontation or conflict; according to him, during his entire 14+ years with his ex-wife, they never argued. And this situation with me would definitely be conflict.

I know that sounds like chickening out. I admit that it is. But this time, I think the better course is to keep the mistake to myself, especially since I've told S2 I won't do that position again.
 
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Of course, after I typed the last post, I ended up coming clean to Hubby.

I prefaced it by saying I was prepared for him to be angry with me, and that I'd screwed up twice. Then I told him about letting S2 do the position Hubby had asked to be exclusively his, and made sure he understood that it was entirely my fault because S2 didn't know the position was supposed to be exclusively Hubby's. And of course I cried, because I do that...

Hubby paused, then said, "What was the other screw up?"

I said, "We were just talking about this yesterday, and I should have told you the truth then."

Hubby put his arms around me and said, "I'm not happy about this, but I'm not angry with you. You made a mistake, and you've probably punished yourself for it worse than I ever would. If you do it again, I'm not going to respond very well, but this time, I'm willing to let it go."

And then this morning, he had sex with me in that position to reassert his ownership of it. (Which is cool within the boundaries of our relationship.)

I still think I probably won't tell S2 that it was supposed to be exclusively Hubby's position. I've made it clear to S2 that I won't let him have sex with me that way again, and I think that might be sufficient. But we'll see.
 
Christmas... is over, thank god.

Alt and Country liked their presents. We did the household Christmas, and presents with Hubby's parents, last Monday, since it was my ex's year to have Country for the Christmas break from school. Alt decided to go as well, because she and I've been mightily getting on each other's nerves lately, so she felt it would be good for us to have a break from each other. They gave me a gorgeous pair of silver earrings as a gift. Hubby's parents gave me a department store gift card, which is awesome because I'd been coveting a pair of shoes at that store, and now I can get them. My parents gave us money for a new living room set, and Best Friend gave me a streaming stick so I can watch Netflix, Hulu, or whatever on my TV instead of my computer.

Hubby gave me a card with $20. And told me that initially, he wasn't even going to give me the money, because he "gives you all my money anyway." He only gave me the cash because when he *said* he shouldn't have to give me anything because I get all his money, I pointed out that the money "I" get is actually money for groceries, bills, stuff the girls need, etc. I can't actually spend any of it on myself, unless you count buying groceries as spending it on myself. So he gave me twenty bucks. The same amount he gave everyone else on his list.

That made me feel like shit, because to me, it felt like him saying I didn't matter enough to put any thought into a gift, and that I'm a financial drain on him so didn't deserve anything anyway. When I expressed that to him a couple days later, he did apologize and said that wasn't what he meant, but it still stings, and I haven't forgiven him. A few friends said I should be glad he gave me anything at all, but to me that's bullshit; if you love someone, you put thought into it. I would have been happier with a pair of earrings from the dollar store, because at least it would have been something personal that Hubby bought because he thought I would like it, instead of just "I don't feel like figuring out what anyone wants this year," which is what he said when he told me he was just giving people cards and money.

And he's still at it. Yesterday I told him I was buying a $35 hand-held vacuum to keep the cat hair off our new couch and loveseat, and he told me I "couldn't" buy it because "we already have a vacuum." Which we do--an upright floor vac with a broken belt, that's too heavy for me to move into the living room and doesn't have enough suction to clean up the cat hair. I bought the hand vac anyway, and then he told me we spend too much money...even though *I* am the one in charge of the household budget, *I* am the one who keeps track of what's in the bank, and *he* has said repeatedly that he doesn't want to deal with finances beyond bringing in the paychecks. And he claims he trusts me with our finances--but it's pretty fucking obvious he's lying about that if he stands there and says we spend too much, when he doesn't even know what we spend or what things cost or how much our monthly bills are.

Money is a massive trigger for me, because nearly all of the fights I heard between my parents as a child were about money, and the worst of the emotional and verbal abuse from my ex was about money. And when I was a kid, my parents made it abundantly clear to me that I was nothing more than a drain on their bank account, to the extent that when I was 8 years old, I went job hunting. Now Hubby's pulling the same shit on me, or at least that's how it feels to me. I'm a drain, it's *his* money and I'm lucky he lets me pay the bills with it, etc. And now, job hunting isn't an option for me because of my health issues. (That's according to health care professionals, not according to me.)

Two years ago, I was right on the verge of divorcing Hubby. And that was after two years of fighting to keep things together for Alt and Country's sakes. In other words, out of the six and a half years we've been together, five and a half actually *living* together, I've wanted out for 4 years now. We got marriage counseling two years ago, which failed because the counselor told me I was expecting too much by wanting Hubby to actually spend time with my kids and me. The man actually said, "You should just be glad he brings in the money to keep a roof over your head, and stop asking him for anything more." That was our third and final counseling session. A few months later, we opened the marriage, and that boosted our communication enough to help for a while, until he lied to me about Betty and did something else to me, involving another guy, that was completely out of line and took away any power or choice on my part.

And now, with him constantly going at me about money and acting more and more like my ex on the subject, I'm pretty much done. Last night when I was trying to talk to him about the hand vac thing, I was holding onto my wedding ring, right on the verge of taking it off. I am not going to live with someone else who throws my lack of value and complete uselessness in my face, and lately that's what he's doing.

The only thing that's kept me from telling him I want out for the past couple of years is the promise I made to Country, which is that I will stay with Hubby at least until she graduates high school so she won't have to change schools (if I left, she would have to live with her dad in another state, because I wouldn't have anywhere to go). And now, in addition, there's the knowledge that the main reason S2 is with me is because I'm married to someone else, so he doesn't have the pressure of having to take care of me, or of me possibly wanting to move the relationship to another level, or whatever. In other words, if I leave Hubby, I leave S2 as well.

I did try to talk to Hubby yesterday about how I'm feeling (not about wanting to leave, but how upset and frustrated and hurt I am by the things he's been saying), because if I'm stuck here for at least another year and a half, I'd like it to a least be a tolerable year and a half. He said he didn't want to hear about it because he's tired of seeing me upset about things.

He's also gotten back into the online role-play game he was--by his own admission--addicted to until about a year after my kids and I moved in with him, and the fact that he's been glued to his computer until three or four every morning despite having to be at work at 8 indicates to me that he's still addicted. And I'm not dealing with that again either; as he put it himself, he prioritized the game over me and my kids for well over a year, and I'm already seeing him doing that again.

Meanwhile, as a Christmas gift, S2 gave me a gift certificate for half the cost of a massage at a local salon/spa, because he knows how much my back and shoulders bother me and he wanted me to have the experience of a professional massage. (The place is expensive; he couldn't afford the entire cost, which I completely understand.) After Hubby apologized about the $20 thing, he gave me the money to make up the cost of the massage.

But I'm having a massive anxiety attack just thinking about having the massage done. The money that I have from Hubby, I could use for more important things, like buying an item of clothing that I desperately need or paying one of my credit card payments for the month. Because even though he tells me he's going to make sure I have the money for those things, I don't believe him. He'll either find a reason not to give it to me at all (which will probably be "Well, I gave you that money at Christmas, you should have held onto it"), or he'll give it to me but hold it against me. Plus the thought of lying on a table and having a complete stranger put their hands on me makes me want to vomit.

But if I don't get the massage, S2 will have spent fifty dollars for nothing, because the only services I could get done at that spa for $50 or less are a manicure OR a pedicure (not both), and on the rare occasions when I get those things done, I go to a nail salon that I've been going to for three years now. I'd rather not change where I get my nails done just because of a gift certificate. And if i don't get the massage, I'll feel guilty because S2 was trying to do something nice for me.
 
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I'm sorry.

I was intending to cut-and-quote your post but I am overwhelmed:rolleyes:.

I both earn the money AND pay the bills...and I don't think the boys even understand how that plays out. If someone earns the $ and the other pays the bills...I can't comprehend how that even plays out in conflict. The boys each get an "allowance" to spend, however they see fit (including on presents for me!)

But...if you are only staying with Hubby because of a promise to Country...Ouch.

We don't "do" presents. Not one of my "love languages" - I prefer "acts of service".

I have so much more to say...but that might be better reserved for my own blog.
 
Sorry, Jane. I got wordier than I intended to. lol

Hubby considers himself incapable of paying the bills. He doesn't stick to budgets, can't figure out how to spread out a bill payment over several weeks instead of trying to come up with the amount all at once, etc. Or, rather... he could figure it out if he chose, given that he's in charge of most of the bookkeeping at work nowadays, but he doesn't WANT to.

Meanwhile, I'm not capable of working to earn money (other than writing my books, which brings in a hundred or so bucks a month if I'm lucky), but I'm very good at budgeting, paying bills, tracking spending, etc. I'm also a major control freak when it comes to finances, given my past experiences, so I prefer to be in charge of making sure the money goes where it's supposed to go.

I suppose you could say I get an allowance; about $65 a week from Hubby's paycheck goes into my personal account. That money just barely covers my monthly credit card payments. It doesn't leave me anything to spend on myself. If it's a good month royalty-wise, I might be able to spend a bit out of my writing income, but usually that isn't possible either. Hubby doesn't earn enough to give me any more money than he gives; his primary job, for his father, doesn't even net enough income to cover our bills and basic expenses (even if that additional $65 was added into the household budget), which is why he works a second job during the off season.

Hubby and I have not always had an easy go of it. We strongly believe he has Asperger's, based on comparing his behavior etc. with Country, who is diagnosed Aspie. Hubby doesn't comprehend basic things like why telling me I look hideous in a dress, instead of something like "That dress might not be the best choice", hurts my feelings. Then there was the gaming addiction; the lies and inappropriate behavior after we opened the marriage; and a number of other issues. As I said, we were in marriage counseling briefly two years ago, and most of the issues that led us there remain.

So yeah... I do love him, don't get me wrong, but there are definitely times when the only reasons I don't walk away are the promise to Country and the fact that I don't have anywhere to go.

I talked to him last night when he got home from work, while he cooked supper. After an hour of discussion, we reached a point of agreement. He said he's been worried about money and he's been getting on my case about it because he's trying to "problem-solve"; I told him if I need his help solving the problem, I'll tell him, but meanwhile him going at me about "spending too much" when he has no understanding or knowledge of our budget or expenses is CAUSING problems, not solving them. Especially when his lack of understanding and knowledge is by HIS choice; I've tried repeatedly to get him to sit down with me and see where the money goes and why, and he consistently refuses.

I told him he can't have it both ways. Either he works WITH me on the finances, which means sitting down with me, or he leaves me alone and lets me deal with it unless I ask him to help me figure something out. He said he would back off, that he does trust me but worries about us spending more than he brings in; I pointed out that the problem isn't overspending, it's underearning, and that isn't anything he can change since his father's already paying him the maximum the company can afford.

I've seen other people mentioning "love language" on here, and I have no clue what that even is... can you elaborate or give me a link or something?
 
Either he works WITH me on the finances, which means sitting down with me, or he leaves me alone and lets me deal with it unless I ask him to help me figure something out. He said he would back off...

...

I've seen other people mentioning "love language" on here, and I have no clue what that even is... can you elaborate or give me a link or something?

I'm glad he said he would back off. These really are the only two solutions to money problems in relationships. You either learn how to do it all together, or you pick one person, set a budget and the non-involved person keeps out of it. I deal with people and their finances every day, and I've seen both work (though I favour the "one person/keep out of it" model for my own finances).

There are five languages (or more, depending on who you talk to, but Gary Chapman's original idea is five). Here is his website: http://www.5lovelanguages.com/
 
Thanks :) We've had the one person/keep out of it model of finances since my kids and I moved in with Hubby, which is another reason it threw me off so much when he started getting on my case.

Checking the link now.
 
I don't know that I agree with the "love language" concept in general (I'm not going to argue about it; something about it just rings "off" to me). But according to the link, receiving gifts is my top thing, followed (1 point off) by acts of service.

Spent New Year's Eve with S2. Hubby had to work and isn't really interested in going out in general anyway, so he was completely cool with me going with S2 to our chat group's NYE party.

It turned out to be a VERY small party; other than us, only 4 other couples, including Best Friend and Star, and one single woman showed up. But it was fun, because other than one couple I hadn't met yet, they were all people I know and get along with.

S2 was very physically affectionate toward me, which made me feel really good. He tends to be pretty reserved in public usually, but most of the night, if we were sitting together, he was holding my hand or had his arm around me, or I had my arm around him and he didn't seem to mind. I liked that he was willing to show everyone there that he and I are together, which is what it felt like he was doing.

The single woman has a "thing" for S2. She likes his sense of humor, and they joke/flirt in the chat room. He just likes to joke and flirt; I'm not entirely sure she realizes that he isn't interested, but he's told me he has absolutely zero interest in her as anything other than someone entertaining in the chat room. After a few drinks, she was asking me a ton of questions about how my situation works. She seemed completely astonished that S2 and I have met each other's kids... and when I said that S2, Hubby, and I all went out to dinner together at one point, she immediately said, "Ooh, did you have a threesome? Do you want to?"

Um... first, none of your business... second, no we didn't and no we don't.

She was being friendly enough to me at the party, but when I saw her in the chat room the next day, she didn't even say hi to me, and kept typing things like "sigh" and "oh, again" each time I mentioned S2. (I was talking to a friend in there about the NYE party.) But... not my problem if she's jealous or whatever about S2 and me being together. I don't control him; he makes his own choices, and he's choosing right now to be exclusive with me. and he's pretty picky about who he's interested in anyway.
 
I was feeling very discouraged/depressed today. Country came home from her dad's in a fighting mood and picked two arguments with me last night within three hours. I hate arguing with her, especially because she knows the buttons to push to make me feel like a shitty mother. Added to that, I'm dealing with some writing career upheaval, and people are pushing me to do things that I don't feel capable of doing and don't really have time to do, and I feel like I should be capable and make time...even though that isn't possible.

I texted S2 and Hubby to ask for some positive words... Hubby sent me a pic he took at the shore nearby and told me someday we'd have a house with that view (which didn't help... we'll never have the money to buy a house anywhere, let alone with an ocean view).

S2 said, "You are by far one of the most interesting and thought provoking people I've met this millennium." Followed a few minutes later by "Your eyes are like fire and your nipples are rather nifty too."

I told him it's a good thing my nipples aren't like fire, or he might burn his mouth...
 
It was a very up-and-down week. Among other things, I think I need to talk to my doctor about increasing the dosage of my antidepressant...I'm on the lowest possible dose and have been for about a year now, and I think it isn't quite working anymore.

I did have some positive things this week. I got two new publishing contracts! That really helped after the issues with my writing last week.

But I started feeling scared and depressed about relationships again...realizing that despite everything S2 has done that's proven he's trustworthy, I still don't trust him completely hurt. I WANT to trust him. And it isn't fair to him that I don't (though I don't *tell* him that I feel that way). I do trust him to an extent, but there are bits of distrust there that I wish would go away. It's because of past experiences with others, and I know this, but thoughts are a lot easier to change than emotions.

Yesterday I was about ready to just call it off, because I do feel that I'm being unfair to him, and because I checked his profile on the site where he and I met and noticed that he's added a couple more things he's looking for. (I told him last night that I need to stop checking his profile...) I look at his profile because it makes me happy to see that the narrative part includes "I am involved in a polyamorous relationship, which is awesome" and his relationship status is "attached", but seeing some of the other things makes me feel insecure and like I'm not really what he wants.

Added to that, I was in the chat room yesterday and my friend Ash brought up my ex-boyfriend Guy and some of the things he said to her after things fell apart between him and me. (They were friends; he hooked up with her a few times during a break he and I took from each other about a month after we met.) According to her, he told her he didn't know what he'd done wrong or why I "hated" him, and he tried to hook up with her again, because he didn't know that I'd already told her what had happened.

I've been thinking about Guy a lot lately anyway--no idea why--and having Ash tell me that just really stabbed me in the heart. And reminded me of WHY I find it so hard to trust S2... Until things between Guy and me fell apart, I trusted Guy more than I'd ever trusted anyone, even Hubby. And the way things ended was a huge betrayal of my trust.

Thank goodness for Hubby yesterday. I told him how I was feeling, and that I was seriously considering breaking up with S2 because I felt like it would be better for all concerned. S2 and I had plans for last night, and I was going to cancel those. Hubby talked me into keeping the plans, and then when I was nearing S2's house and couldn't get myself together because of all the bullshit circulating in my brain, I called Hubby and said that I didn't understand why he was trying to talk me into keeping the plans with S2 and not breaking up with him. Not long ago, Hubby told me that he wishes sometimes that we were back to just him and me, no other partners.

I pointed that out to him and said that if I broke up with S2, it would benefit Hubby... and Hubby said, "I'm happy with how things are now. Please go talk to him and straighten this out."

Which I did, though I didn't tell S2 *everything* that was on my mind. I told him why I think I should stop looking at his profile, as well as why I *do* look at it, and I told him about the conversation with Ash. And then I was teasing him about his profile and said, "You know, since your profile says you're attached, there are probably a lot of women on that site who are deciding not to contact you."

He said, "That's just fine with me; I'm not looking for anyone to contact me."

We spent the evening at his place; he'd been considering going to see a band that a couple of his friends are in, but they were playing an hour and a half away, and S2 and I were both exhausted, plus some of the roads were icing up. So we stayed home and just talked for hours, then went to bed. And woke up... er, in a very nice way this morning.

Fighting depression seriously sucks. I'm thankful that I *recognize* when it's depression making me think negative things and that I can usually talk myself through it, and I'm even more thankful that when I struggle to talk myself through it, I have people in my life who care enough to help me.

But I'm definitely going to be talking to my doctor this week.
 
According to my doctor, I'm on the highest available dosage of my current antidepressant. After explaining to three different people that I'm not suicidal or in danger of harming anyone including myself, and that I don't need a psychiatrist or a hospital but just a functional medication, my doctor set me up with a counselor in his practice and gave me a couple of med options to research. I tend to have very unpredictable reactions to meds, so I won't take anything until I've thoroughly researched all the possible side effects.

Since Monday, though, it's been a good week. I'm apparently on an upswing, and I'm definitely not complaining about that. Things are good with Hubby and with S2, my kids are being more helpful and cooperative, and I have two books coming out next month.

S2 said something about giving me a Valentine's present... which reminded me that I have to actually figure out what to give him and Hubby for Valentine's Day.
 
And the upswing comes to an end, courtesy of my reactions to a couple of Hubby's foot-in-mouth comments. He knows I'm hyper-sensitive about how my body looks. 10 years ago, I lost 98 pounds...and was left with about 10-15 pounds of loose skin just kinda hanging off my body. The only way to get rid of it is surgery, which is not covered by insurance, so I just have to deal with it.

Over the past four years, because of health issues, I've regained about 45 pounds of those 98. So now I'm fat AND still have the skin hanging off me. (When I started complaining about the weight gain, Hubby's response was "Look at it this way, if you get fat again, the skin won't hang so much." Just to give you an example of how far down his throat he shoves his foot sometimes.)

This weekend, it was about lingerie, spawned by him gushing and drooling over his online gaming character and her "linger-armor." I pointed out that I've mentioned more than once wearing lingerie, and he always says it would be a waste of time because he doesn't like it. To which he said, "Well, yeah, I wouldn't like you to wear it." Then today, I had to go out to buy a couple of new bras and texted him about a cute one I'd found... and he responded with some wiseass comment I won't even dignify by typing.

Yesterday after the lingerie BS, he tried to tell me that he loves how my body looks and is still attracted to me, and asked why I never believe him when he says that. I said, "Maybe because I asked you a few years ago how you would feel if I ever gained back the weight I'd lost, and you said you would still love me but you wouldn't find me attractive. Or maybe because for years, you gushed about how sexy 'little cute women' are."

Today I responded to his wiseass comment by saying I hope someday I smarten up and stop bothering to ask his opinion.

He doesn't understand that he's torn down my self-esteem so badly since we've been together that I've lost nearly everything I gained during the time between leaving my first marriage and meeting Hubby. He doesn't understand that I can't believe any of the positive things he says because of all the times he's said negative things and told me he was "just being honest."

And I just finished a crying spell that happened because I'd sent S2 an email on the dating site we're on that he hadn't answered even though it shows him online, and I sent him the same text about the bra as I sent Hubby, and S2 hadn't answered it (three hours later). But just as I was about to give up and go to bed to shake the mood, S2 texted back and said he'd just gotten my bra text, and said something flirty/teasing/encouraging about it, so at least that boosted me a bit.

Sometimes I fish for compliments from S2 because I know I'm not going to get them from Hubby... and that's wrong. First of all, I shouldn't need validation from either of them, but since I do like to hear good things about myself from time to time, I shouldn't have to hint around to one of them to get compliments, and know that even hinting around wouldn't do any good with the other.

Ugh.
 
"shouldn't need validation" ... stop right there :rolleyes:. Yes, ideally we would all be fonts of our own self-esteem - we are strong, capable, intelligent, sexy, attractive, beautiful women! (Yes, we ARE!) And then we run ourselves down saying that we "shouldn't" need the validation of those whose opinions we care about...Oh, the conundrum!

Yes, my husband finds me more physically attractive when I am 30# lighter than I am now. So do I! And then, my boyfriend tells me I am "sexy" when I haven't showered in 3 days, have hairy legs, and bad breath. I don't believe him! BUT, they both LOVE me - 30 extra pounds, hairy legs and all.:eek:

We are awesome...and we have faults. So be it. Know what? Your boys aren't perfect either (and neither are mine!). They can be tactless and inconsiderate (and insecure themselves). And we love them, in spite of themselves.

So we do the best we can, and muddle through somehow. I've learned to NOT ask questions that I don't want the honest answers to. I don't want to put them in a position of being honest vs. being kind. I DON'T ask "Do these jeans make me look fat?" (Because the ineveitable invariable answer, in our house, would be - "No, your fat ass makes those jeans look fat!" - which is teasing but painful.) Instead I ask: "Which outfit do you like better - x or y?". So they can say, "Actually I find z to be more flattering to your figure."
 
Thanks, Jane... When I was in counseling, my counselor always said, "Don't should on yourself". Good advice to remember. lol

I don't mind getting *honest* answers when I ask for my guys' opinions. I only ask if I want honesty. But Hubby has consistently shown an inability to distinguish between "honest" and "brutal"... For example, if I ask him about a dress, he *could* say, "That dress isn't the best choice for you", but instead, he's likely to say, "How could you even think about wearing that? Can't you see how much it makes your gut stick out?"

That's one of the several factors that makes me believe he has Asperger's (because my Aspie daughter has been known to make comments like that as well)... The difference between Hubby and my daughter is that Country is willing to listen when someone tells her she's hurting feelings, and is willing to learn more positive, less hurtful ways of phrasing things, whereas Hubby says, "Why shouldn't I say it if it's true? I don't understand why you're hurt if I'm telling the truth."

I've been trying for a while now to give him specific phrases to use to be *gently* honest rather than brutal, but he still doesn't get it...

Meanwhile, I actually need S2 to be *more* honest when I ask his opinion; he knows enough about my past to know that I need to hear positive things about myself, and sometimes he'll give me a positive that isn't exactly truthful so he won't hurt my feelings. He's getting better about that, though, because he *does* get the difference between being gently honest and being brutally honest.
 
I had a conflict with Country yesterday. She was taking a college placement test for some classes that are available as a dual enrollment option, a cooperative thing between her high school and the adjacent community college. I showed up to pick her up at the agreed-on time, and she told me she'd decided to retake a placement test she'd done poorly on before.

I could have been more careful with my words... I reminded her that just the day before, when I picked her up from her dad, he and I had talked to her about being more considerate when she makes or changes plans that involve other people, and said I wished she'd let me know before I drove out to get her that she would be doing the additional test. I also reminded her that it was Tuesday, and I have standing plans with S2 on Tuesdays. And then I told her to go ahead and take the test.

Fifteen minutes later, she came back and said, "There. We can leave now. I hope you're happy." She had completely bombed the test, getting less than half her previous score--and when I told her she could have taken her time, she said, "No, you were rushing me so you could go see your precious S2. So let's go."

After a silent half-hour drive home, I sat her down and apologized for making her feel rushed, but I also pointed out that she hadn't hurt *me* by bombing the test, only herself. To which she replied, "Aren't you going to take responsibility for rushing me? Because that's why I bombed the test."

Asperger's... teenager... ugh.

I told her I love her and she's important to me, and then left for S2's. I considered staying home... but then she would have gotten her way.

On the way to S2's, I called her dad to fill him in, mainly because of Country bringing up S2. When I was married to her dad, he constantly accused me of cheating on him (I never did... not even close, not even flirtation), and even told Alt and Country that I cheated on him with the one friend I had--a man my ex insisted was gay. Because yeah, accusing me of cheating on him with a GAY man made total sense to him... So I wanted him to hear about the issue from me, as well as from Country if she chose to talk to him about it, so he would know about the test and so I could remind him that, as I've explained to him and to Country, S2 is my friend who helps me with writing, is teaching me bass guitar, and gives me a place to hang out so I can be myself for a while. Which, oddly, my ex is actually in favor of, now that I'm married to someone else...

Anyway, he and I actually had a decent talk, but he's freaking out about Country taking the college class, and he was ranting about her disrespect, so I felt pretty emotionally drained by the time I got to S2's. I started telling him about the conflict... and then started crying, even though I was trying like crazy not to.

He held me, and when I managed to settle a bit, I said, "I'm sorry for crying on you again. I really do try to come over here not a complete mess, but sometimes I fail."

He said, "No worries. This is your happy safe place."

Which definitely made me happy. And amused me a bit... those are the exact words Hubby uses when he's helping me through a panic attack or PTSD trigger, or when I'm just feeling overwhelmed.
 
"Aren't you going to take responsibility for rushing me? Because that's why I bombed the test."

Asperger's... teenager... ugh.

Mine was borderline - but yeah, sounds familiar.

"No, you bombed the test because you either didn't know the material or couldn't be bothered to take care of business. It doesn't hurt me one bit if you have to take an extra class or two, it's not my class."

It may not sink in now, but it might next year or a few years later. I actually got in writing "Mom, I should have listened to you and worked harder in English class", after the kid joined the Army.
 
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