Seeking advice: "Butterfly hunter" and anxiety

Mina

New member
Hello everyone,

I'm new to this forum in order to start talking to others about certain situations or problems that arise in a polyamorous way of living. Maybe I can give some contribution myself and share my experiences as well.

Right now I could use some advice about the topic of needs.

About my situation:
I'm in a long-term relationship (4.5 years) with the man who first introduced me to the concept of polyamory.
At the time we met he had a lovely partner and they both showed me the positiv aspects of beeing poly and that it filled something that I missed: The possibility to express your love for different people without the feeling of being "ill-intentioned" - like I used to feel in monogamous relationships whenever I developed feelings for another person.
Sadly their relationship ended really bad and we both started focusing on each other.
That went well for a while but we both got to the point that we wanted to express our feelings for others again and started dating.

He is someone I would call a "butterfly hunter" - someone who is drawing his feelings of self-worth mostly from "new" short-term relationships. Of course I can understand that the excitement of a new partner is thrilling and that it makes you feel desirable.

But the point is that I feel that my needs are getting neglected - especially the physical ones like sex.
We only have sex on special occasions like a threesome with a new partner of him, play parties or if I "complain enough".
I tried to tell him many times that I feel neglected and that over this time I got anxious about getting close to him because I feel like I'm forcing him to do something he otherwise wouldn't want to.
I'm more and more feeling like the "everyday wife" - something you take for granted and that is not special in any way. He even supported this feeling by telling me that I'm someone he's accostumed to.

Every now and then I'm feeling this anxiety that I'm not worthy of getting my needs fit in this relationship which I know is very unhealthy.

But right now I don't know what to do...
I love this man and I want to gift him so much - but on the other side I'm getting exhausted of this anxiety and rejection of the things I want to give to him as well as my needs...

I would like to know if someone experienced a similar situation and maybe could give me some advice.

(I apologize in advance for my English - I'm not a native speaker ;) )
 
Some ideas

Hi,

That sounds like a tough situation. My partner suggested that we open up our (at the time) 7-year relationship. I found that she was happier and had more energy overall, including when she was spending time with me. I personally feel that when I meet someone new, I am happier and offer that positive energy to my partner as well. Part of opening up was learning more about relationships and making sure to be present for partners. Maybe if you are looking for partners, part of your selection should include seeing if they are good at being present for you.

On the flip side, although I am looking for very intimate relationships, the people I connect with seem to prefer casual. That's OK too. Everyone is allowed to set their own boundaries. To make sure that my needs are met, I bounce around between partners so that none of them feel that I am too "high maintenance". This works out well for me, my partners, and everyone's needs are being met.

So ideas for you (if you think they can work):
1) Ask your current partner for time in which he is present for you. Schedule dates and put them in your shared calendar. Talk with your partner about what your concerns are and brainstorm solutions together. Avoid the blame game.
2) If he is not willing to be present for you, consider whether you want to keep dating him or not (a partner who is not willing to engage in solution finding may not be the best fit for you).
3) Date other partners who are willing to be present with you (and of course, keep dating this guy you love too if you like!)

Hope this helps and good luck!
 
I think it's normal for NRE to kind of make a partner drift away a bit. However, if it is pointed out to them and they continue, that is a problem. If the above suggestions don't work you will have to decide if you want to stick around.

I wonder if this was some of the problem with his last relationship.
 
He is someone I would call a "butterfly hunter" - someone who is drawing his feelings of self-worth mostly from "new" short-term relationships.

Mature, consensual, casual sex is one thing, but steadily sourcing women to feed self esteem is in and of itself is a big problem and a huge indication that your BF has serious emotional limitations. Much as an addict turns to his substance for relief from inner turmoil, your BF looks to the rush of a new person to fill the gaping void in himself. It's love and sex addiction defined. Call it NRE and wrap it all up in "poly" with any color ribbon, it's still sex and love addiction with his serious and deep fears driving the search for more and more and more. Of course he gets tired of you, he's an addict and he's had you plenty. You can't "gift" him enough to love him out of his addiction to new women and you can't have enough "talks" with him to ease your queasiness. Sure, a talk now and then will temporarily soothe you, but your emotions are spot on and they are telling you loud and clear that this man is just not emotionally available - not in the way that you need a partner to be. And for goodness sake, don't turn to additional partners in an effort to make up for his douchebaggery or to try and distract yourself. Adding more dating partners to this won't solve what is fundamentally wrong.

You're in love with someone who treats women, however "willing" they seem to be, like disposable sex toys. If NRE is involved, even worse, for that means that these women have feelings for him and the sex is not just casual for them. Is this someone who has the emotional fortitude to be what you need in a mate? He may very well have the potential, but he does not have the ability right now. Your anxiety is giving you a clear, precise and relentless message. Why are you not respecting what your intuition is communicating?
 
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I got anxious about getting close to him because I feel like I'm forcing him to do something he otherwise wouldn't want to.

In my world, this is a very real concern that I try to keep at the forefront of my mind. I want people to interact with me in the way that is natural for them, and I interact however is natural for me, where there is healthy overlap - this is the relationship.

If I'm having to ask someone to behave in a certain way, that means that my expectations are not lined up with reality. The only thing I am doing by making these requests is hindering any chance of an authentic association.

But right now I don't know what to do...
I love this man and I want to gift him so much - but on the other side I'm getting exhausted of this anxiety and rejection of the things I want to give to him as well as my needs...

Your exhaustion is related (at least in part) to chasing around the idea of a relationship that doesn't exist.

For me, it's not a bad thing that my sex life with a particular partner changes. I don't require a certain amount of sex (or any sex at all) to love someone and to have a meaningful relationship with them.
 
Hi Mina,

You seem to be torn between your love for this man and the fact that he is wearing you out with his lack of interest in you. As hard as it is to contemplate, my suggestion is to give some serious thought to the possibility of breaking up with him. Maybe it could even be a friendly breakup, and you could still love him from afar? I'm just saying, your needs don't seem to be getting met in this relationship, and it doesn't seem to be likely that he will change. I could be wrong of course.

I hope you're able to work things out somehow.
Sincerely,
Kevin T.
 
I'm sorry you struggle. I mean all this kindly, ok? :eek:

I tried to tell him many times that I feel neglected and that over this time I got anxious about getting close to him because I feel like I'm forcing him to do something he otherwise wouldn't want to.

Sounds like you have made him aware and requested that he pay more attention more than once. He isn't willing to do it and you are getting tired of asking. He just gives you intermittent attention once in a while. You do not think his heart is really into it. Just that he wants to quiet the complaints.

That doesn't sound like it is not enough attention or best quality attention so you can feel happy here. You are actually NOT happy here.

Could accept this is not deeply compatible. Fun for a short time, but it isn't going to be a long term thing.

It's a bummer, but not everyone you date is going to be a long term thing.

Every now and then I'm feeling this anxiety that I'm not worthy of getting my needs fit in this relationship which I know is very unhealthy.

You ARE worthy of getting your needs met. You just aren't going to meet your own needs by staying with a guy who doesn't meet your personal standards.

You need a certain amount of time and attention. He doesn't make the cut. You asked him to step it up. He doesn't want to.

You seem to know he's a "butterfly hunter." You are no longer the "new and shiny" butterfly. I would wonder if that's why his previous relationship fizzled. She became "old butterfly" and at that time you were the new shiny one. Now time has moved on and now you are the old butterfly and whoever the new one is the new one.

You seem to want a long term thing. A "butterfly hunter" does not provide that. You could let this one go and seek someone who IS more compatible for something longer term.

Neither way of dating is right or wrong... just that they don't match together.

I love this man and I want to gift him so much - but on the other side I'm getting exhausted of this anxiety and rejection of the things I want to give to him as well as my needs...

If you are run down and tired? Stop trying to push a rock up hill. Stop putting energy into this.

Could part ways so you can be free FROM discomfort of not getting needs met. Free from exhaustion, anxiety, etc.

He can be free TO move on to the next butterfly.

Could decide to love him from a distance rather than "up close." Because trying to love him up close is no longer pleasure for you. Now it causes pain.

You don't have to stay in something that hurts you. You can put some distance between you.

The feelings are probably not fun to FEEL. But the actions seems straight forward: You aren't getting what you need here. Already asked for changes in behavior. No changes will be forthcoming.

So why stay? Sunk cost fallacy? You expect him to turn into something he is not? :confused:

Galagirl
 
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Let me clarify... I'm counting from the last relationship shape change. Some of the cast of the players might be the same, but the relationship shape they practice together is not.

  • First, Mina entered a poly thing and the three were practicing a "V." It went well but ended badly when hinge and meta broke up.

  • Mina was then practicing a "Closed" thing with the former hinge which went well. But that's ended.

  • Now Mina is in an Open thing with the former hinge and finding it unsatisfactory. Not been 4.5 years there.

If this relationship model/partner isn't meeting needs any more? They want incompatible things or have grown apart? One doesn't have to stay going with it just to keep it going. Like "going through the motions." Eventually I think that's going to start feeling all "hollow."

Galagirl
 
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True, the relationship models have changed, but the "butterfly hunter" (or however euphemistically we're calling this obsessive sourcing of new women to feed self esteem) is an addiction that presumably has been active throughout the span of the 4+ years - and very likely pre-dates it. This is an addiction that will render attempts at intimacy fruitless. It's not just another harmless valid dating choice. The purpose these women are sourced and the effects this sourcing has on the primary relationship clearly show that this man is not engaging in mature, conscious, clean casual sex. I know several couples who embrace this kind of dating and it does not eat away at their intimacy, it enhances it because it's a conscious, sex-positive choice for them and for the casual sex partners. Respect for the partners' comfort is the highest priority, not getting one's "needs" met. What the OP is describing is sex addiction*, plain and simple, and there is no real intimacy possible in the primary relationship unless the BF deals with the underlying issues that drive it. It's great to be the new and shiny partner, but that one always becomes the old partner soon enough and is kept around while he goes on the hunt for another new and shiny. This is the kind of disrespectful, callow "dating style" that gives polyamory a bad name. Whether the cycles are a few years or a few months, it's still an addiction that serves to distract him from massive internal pain.

*Not a physician's diagnosis, just the opinion of a random internet stranger.
 
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Suggestion to avoid mind-reading

It can be pretty easy to try to mind read or to pathologize behaviour we don't understand. Consider how homosexuality and polyamory are/have been pathologized, even though we can agree there is nothing wrong or unhealthy about the related behaviours.

This man may or may not be an addict, he may or may not have self-esteem issues, we simply do not know. I would like to interpret this behaviour (lots of dating) in the most charitable way:

Dating new people is a lot of fun, and can be really distracting!

Even if he is using dating for self-esteem building, you still may love him, stay with him, and seek from other partners what he isn't able to provide for you. If you think he is not reliable, then you can you decide on your boundaries that keep you safe and/or break up with him.
 
It's not just another harmless valid dating choice. The purpose these women are sourced and the effects this sourcing has on the primary relationship clearly show that this man is not engaging in mature, conscious, clean casual sex.

I'm not sure he has sex addiction or not based on what's been posted so far. Anything is possible, but at this point in time I'm not sure it is sex addiction.

That's all stuff about him. I rather put my attention on Mina than him. Mina is the one asking for help and posting.

However it is that makes this guy behave this way? Her needs are just not met here. She's not happy. She could expect more of same if she stays -- needs still not met. Still not happy. She's already done what she can do. Ask for changes. The answer is that none will be forthcoming.

So I think continuing unhappy here would stink. Breaking up might also stink. But when there's no "win or lose" kind of choice? It is more like "all the choices stink?" In that situation I would pick the least stinky choice then. To me that is breaking up. Because then the misery has an end point and one can move on to the healing place. Not linger in the stinky place with no end in sight.

I think Mina could hope to thrive in her relationships. Not merely survive them.

Mina, I'm sorry you are going through all this. I cannot imagine it is fun to feel. You have my sympathies. :(

Galagirl
 
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She could expect more of same if she stays...

This is the key point, I agree.



It can be pretty easy to try to mind read or to pathologize behaviour we don't understand. Consider how homosexuality and polyamory are/have been pathologized, even though we can agree there is nothing wrong or unhealthy about the related behaviours.

I'm actually not pathologizing because love addiction and sex addiction aren't medically recognized pathologies in any of the DSMs. Love addiction is a colloquial term used to describe a particular kind of unhealthy relationship pattern and there is help available for this, based on the pattern of the constant pursuit of new relationships for the purpose of self-esteem bolstering. I make my comments based on what the OP has written about her experience of being the non-new partner. It's important to know when a parter is in an addiction pattern because typical efforts at communication and reasoning do not apply. Understanding an addiction pattern can help the partner make educated choices and move away from repeatedly hoping that things will get better and not knowing why they don't. If my experience doesn't help Mina, then it doesn't help, but it may help someone else who recognizes this pattern in their partner. It may help explain why no amount of asking for needs to be met (AKA communication) will improve the relationship. It may explain why the partner feels so much anxiety.

"Addiction can be defined in a general way as a compulsive (repeated action without choice) and chronic (ongoing over time) pattern of using a substance or behavior for soothing, comforting and/or arousal as a means of medicating uncomfortable feelings..... Love addiction is a compulsive, chronic craving and/or pursuit of romantic love in an effort to get our sense of security and worth from another person."

Far from judging behavior I don't understand, I mentioned that I know several couples who incorporate casual and serious dating in their polyamorous and swinging relationships. I do know what respectful, nurturing, healthy, fun nonmongamous dating looks like and based on what Mina has written, this is not healthy, fun, nurturing dating. It is very far from respectful.
 
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