Hello from New York...

It's been a new mind set for me to think I don't need my partner's agreement for everything that I want to do or that I actually do.

I understand the old mindset that makes this (living with autonomy within a partnership) a new one. When you're living through it, it is possible to believe that this is what a relationship takes, that this is the "hard work" that people talk about. That to be a good partner is to put the other person first. And to adhere to certain gender roles. And all this without a particularly unhealthy upbringing. My mother was probably very confused to see her strong headed, on-her-own-terms daughter wilting at that early attempt at a live-in relationship.

I have felt responsible for how they feel about things, instead of making them responsible for how they feel about things.

Combine this with a partner who doesn't have the skills to be responsible for their own feelings (addicts, especially) and you've got a match made in hell.

The OP was afraid that any advice board would give the advice to break up. The "permission to do..." thing is, imo, a completely valid reason for such advice to be given. It is extraordinarily unhealthy to be in this space*. It takes a lot of time to rebuild your autonomy and capability to function independently after you have given away your power to someone who needs it to allay their own insecurities. You have his wellbeing forefront. He doesn't have yours. And it is really hard to get your power back within the relationship that is now, simply, dysfunctional.

Branches, whether leaving or staying, you need to address this power dynamic that has been created when your bf moved to that space of controlling your behaviour. It's not OK.





*outside of consensual P/E relationships.
 
I think it might be easy, after bringing up the subject of polyamory or anything sensitive, to then fall into a sort of guilty "I have to do everything/anything to make him/her feel better" mode. It's like, after you assert a need that separates you from your partner, you try to restitch the relationship back together the way it was (impossible) by turning yourself inside-out to be acquiescent. At least I have found myself doing that, but it's not sustainable. I know I'd get resentful (not to mention exhausted) eventually.

It's only over time--as I've been feeling more confident about what I'm doing and my husband is more secure about our relationship--that I've been able to stop trying so damn hard all the time. I mean, I'm still working really hard on my marriage and focusing on my husband's well being, but that's because I feel happy and whole and grateful and it comes from a generous impulse, not because I feel guilty.
 
Wow, I didn't realize that there were so many responses to this thread.

Things have changed a bit since I originally posted, and Writer and I are working on finding more of a balance. When I first mentioned polyamory, he had told me that he was okay with me identifying as polyamorous, but that he needed time to adjust to the idea. One of the things he wanted was for me to ask him before I was to do anything with anyone else, and I had promised to go as slow as he needed me to. Both of these things lead to a lot of depression on either side, because he felt I was pressuring him to move faster whenever I asked, and I felt trapped because I now felt like I had to ask for permission to do things I would have done without so much as a thought before (like making a phone call). He was no longer comfortable with me talking to other men, and that affected my platonic relationships as well.

He then told me that I didn't need to ask for permission anymore, but when I would inform him (i.e. "I'm getting coffee with a friend today"), he would get extremely upset and I would end up feeling guilty, which lead back to me feeling like I needed to ask for permission first.

For a while things really snowballed and we hit some pretty low points. But we are getting better. Communication is very difficult for us, because I thrive on talking about emotions, and he despises it. When I can tell he's depressed, he does NOT want to talk about it (mostly because he says he doesn't know how to describe it). I am trying extremely hard not to feel pressured into asking for permission, and I am giving him plenty of heads up when I make plans with anyone. Unfortunately, I still feel as if it's "unacceptable" to do things at the spur of the moment (such as answering a phone call), because of how much it seems to bother him.

I know it sounds gloomy, but we are getting better, slowly.
 
I understand exactly what he is saying OR what you said he said...

First post I felt compelled to, register, and reply.

I am going to give you some background so you can understand my perserctive.

OK, I understand EXACTLY what the Writer is going through. My wife earlier this fall all the sudden decided she was going to date other people weather or not I was ok with it because 5 years ago I told her it was ok to explore her sexual needs desires and wants. I am not saying 5 years ago I would have been ok with it in actuality, but it came out of the blue this year. It caught me completely flat footed. Also our relationship was having a fair amount of problems that we had let go to their own devices and they had compounded in our neglect.

Now I have a tendency to have the mentality that sex is sex it doesn't mean anything other than a good time (that’s not to say it isn't special it just doesn't have to be tied to love). This is the swinger mentality I have and operate from. I would rather just pay for sex and not deal with the emotional upkeep needed in a relationship (I am not really poly). The Wifey however cannot let someone touch her unless she feels comfortable with some one after a couple of dates. This bothered the living hell out of me in the beginning. Until I figured out she is poly and I am, not I am more of a swinger. We were at odds until I learned what poly is and that there are words to describe. Having a name for it and a set of terms that WE agree upon (me and her, the rest of the world can argue about definitions until they are blue in the face). So that when we have a conversation we are speaking the same language. I had a real hard time in the beginning, dealing with jealousy, envy, and separation anxiety. She had a real hard time communicating her wants/needs and managing her/our time.

I knew I had a real me problem with the jealousy, I was jealous that I wasn't getting to spend time with her and she didn't want to spend her free time with me. It was later that I realized I was also envious that she got to go on dates with other people and I didn't (not that I really had the desire to, but I didn't even get the option) I was also envious of her dates because we didn't go on dates together. I really need her to reassure me that she still loves me and wants to be with me and I am still her primary and that she isn’t replacing me. However until we learned that I needed this reassurance I was probably a bit too aggressive in my sticking my nose into her business and wanting to be informed of involved with things, it made me feel like I had control of the things that were affecting me. When in reality it was probably just making me an annoying ass. During an exceptionally bad anxiety spell I went on a walk and I had all the thoughts of well I need to put limits on how many times she can see a person or how many times a week she can go out and who she was chatting with on OKC. I realized before i even made it back home from my anxiety walk that most of those things wouldn't work and were not any of my business. And no amount of rules and protocols are going to do a damn thing except point out where we failed. I am still curious about who she chats with on OKC as I am trying to figure out her "type" and what she finds attractive or at least what she is bothering to go after but I try to ask only after she is obviously texting someone new. Is this any of my business, probably not but it is a huge source of curiosity (its a me problem).

She did help me work on my “me” problems, by going on dates and making me face my jealousy and envy, and helping me by reassuring me and talking through what was going on in my head. We know now that She is after "Secondaries" (friends with benefits) and that I get very annoyed if she goes on more than 2 dates a week. We also figured out she gets ragged if she goes on more than 2 dates in a week and that puts a strain on all relationships. We also both know that she still wants to spend 6-7 days a week with me. I still have a problem when she is texting incessantly, I don't care whom with but I get more annoyed when it is with her OKC friends. I still feel she has a problem texting too much.

I really want her to go on dates and what not, but I know I am a bit closed off after she spends time with other people, some times for a day or so. I feel a bit pushed away so I push away, I am trying to be better about it but I am human with 30+ years of habits.



So let me now give you some pointed advice. If what I have said made any sense already…

Don't ask permission, per se. You have wants/needs/desires too Say something like I am going to go for coffee this week probably Thursday, unless there is something WE need or want to do that day. Be assertive but not demanding and don't coddle his negative behavior it only makes it worse. Like wise it is rude to say to anybody who you/they have assumed will be spending time together due to ingrained patterns or unchecked assertions that, oh by the way I am going to fuck off for a couple of hours to have coffee with someone (no matter who it is paramour, mother, the pope). You are the nexus point of several relationships it is your new job to manage your and their time, energy and effort. You need to be a bit better about making plans and less spontaneous at least until you get the hang of your relationships and what they need.

You need to be clear with your paramours that if you don't feel its right to answer the phone that they should leave a message and you will get back to them. If you wouldn't answer the phone if your mom or a bff were calling because it isn't the right thing to do, then don't answer your paramours call either... be phone courteous. If you know it bothers him be polite and don't answer it like wise if you wouldn't answer one of those calls in front of your mother don't answer it in front of him. At least until he has dealt with or is better dealing with his “me” problems.

MAKE HIM DEAL WITH HIS “ME” PROBLEMS. It is real damn easy to hide from them and let them fester. Tell him to describe what he is feeling or thinking as if he was describing it to a 5 year old. This will make him use his base language set and he can cobble words to get his feelings across. Jealousy and envy thrive in solitude, communication destroys solitude. Deal with the discomfort of communicating or deal with a break up (several probably). He isn't communicating. Ask him what are his wants/needs/desires that come from your relationship. I am guessing he needs/wants more of your time and attention.

Learn the difference between triggers and motivations, for example I am triggered by the wife going on dates or becoming too focused on her phone. I am really jealous of those things, nope, what I am jealous of the lack of attention to me (or possibly just annoyed that she isn't respecting us time and spending too much time on the phone, it can be both)

Talk about how much time is ok for you to be together vs being apart in a given period of time. You know what talk about everything communication is the key. You need to be a vast resource of communication, that isn’t so say you have to tell him everything all the time but you need to be very open with the information he needs to know, and forthcoming with the information he asks that is appropriate to give him.

Does he need a hobby? I know I will get yelled at or at leas looked down upon for saying this but yes in some small way I view the wive's dating as a hobby it helps me deal with it in a form that isn't threatening to me. I decided that I needed to work on a hobby while she is dating; it helps me not to let the darkness in. I can love her and photography; she can love her paramours and me. Likewise if you view it from the point of view hobby time you might understand how it can be annoying to him that you spend so much time on your hobby. (I know it might not be what some people consider an appropriate perspective but it is how I can better relate, and I see so much of myself in what she has described writer as)

I really want to suggest you and he listen to this podcast http://www.lifeontheswingset.com/22...e-entitlement-the-gentleperverts-social-club/
Listen to it separately then listen to it together and discuss. They bring up a lot of really good points and perspectives.

I feel that being poly or mono is really a part of who we are as people just like gay or straight, bi… It is also the descriptor for a style of relationship. At the end of the day we, like our relationships, are all unique. Only in retrospective can we describe them perfectly until then we have to constantly reevaluate them and redefine them in a constantly changing way. Good luck and Have him join or relay messages to us we are here to help BOTH of you.

I can't tell if it posted so second attempt.
 
Last edited:
First of all, thank you for responded! It’s a long and well thought out post.

So let me now give you some pointed advice. If what I have said made any sense already…

Don't ask permission, per se. You have wants/needs/desires too Say something like I am going to go for coffee this week probably Thursday, unless there is something WE need or want to do that day. Be assertive but not demanding and don't coddle his negative behavior it only makes it worse. Like wise it is rude to say to anybody who you/they have assumed will be spending time together due to ingrained patterns or unchecked assertions that, oh by the way I am going to fuck off for a couple of hours to have coffee with someone (no matter who it is paramour, mother, the pope). You are the nexus point of several relationships it is your new job to manage your and their time, energy and effort. You need to be a bit better about making plans and less spontaneous at least until you get the hang of your relationships and what they need.

At this point, I haven’t been doing anything. I have gone on two “dates” in the past four months with one ‘paramour,’ and both I gave Writer several days notice. One was coffee for about an hour and a half, the other was more of an actual ‘date,’ where we spent about twelve hours together just talking and catching up, eating dinner, and having drinks. I haven’t so much as kissed anyone else.

The bigger problem was that he no longer wanted me to spend time with my completely platonic friends, either. For instance, once I was at work and wanted to get coffee with an old out of town friend that I hadn’t seen in years. He was just in town for a few days, and it was probably the only time I’d get to see him. I texted writer to say, “Hey, Allen is in town, I’d like to get coffee with him - I haven’t seen him in ten years and he’s only available tonight,” and Writer would text back “I’m not okay with that.” So, at that point, I either give up my only chance to see a friend I hadn’t seen in ten years, or Writer and I have big fight later that night. (I chose the fight, but I hope he saw my point. He would have never had an issue with that in the first three years of our relationship).

You need to be clear with your paramours that if you don't feel its right to answer the phone that they should leave a message and you will get back to them. If you wouldn't answer the phone if your mom or a bff were calling because it isn't the right thing to do, then don't answer your paramours call either... be phone courteous. If you know it bothers him be polite and don't answer it like wise if you wouldn't answer one of those calls in front of your mother don't answer it in front of him. At least until he has dealt with or is better dealing with his “me” problems.

I don’t answer the phone if Writer is around. Not even if it’s my mom. If I want to make a phone call, to anyone, I have to leave the house.

MAKE HIM DEAL WITH HIS “ME” PROBLEMS. It is real damn easy to hide from them and let them fester. Tell him to describe what he is feeling or thinking as if he was describing it to a 5 year old. This will make him use his base language set and he can cobble words to get his feelings across. Jealousy and envy thrive in solitude, communication destroys solitude. Deal with the discomfort of communicating or deal with a break up (several probably). He isn't communicating. Ask him what are his wants/needs/desires that come from your relationship. I am guessing he needs/wants more of your time and attention.

I’m trying at this one, I really am. But he does not like to talk about his feelings, so when I ask him to describe what he is thinking or feeling, he pretty much says ‘no.’ He thinks that communicating feelings causes problems. I’m trying really, really hard to get him to talk to me about his thoughts and reactions. As for time and attention, right now we spend about 5-6 hours together every night. Like I said, I haven’t been seeing paramours or even friends, but hopefully things are moving in a better direction.

Learn the difference between triggers and motivations, for example I am triggered by the wife going on dates or becoming too focused on her phone. I am really jealous of those things, nope, what I am jealous of the lack of attention to me (or possibly just annoyed that she isn't respecting us time and spending too much time on the phone, it can be both)

Talk about how much time is ok for you to be together vs being apart in a given period of time. You know what talk about everything communication is the key. You need to be a vast resource of communication, that isn’t so say you have to tell him everything all the time but you need to be very open with the information he needs to know, and forthcoming with the information he asks that is appropriate to give him.

I do think that my using my phone for texting, or anything really, is a trigger for him. It has been since the beginning of our relationship three years ago. But the thing is, he doesn’t give me any time to myself. Like I said, we spend about 5-6 hours a night together, cooking, playing board games or video games, or watching movies and television together. He doesn’t even like me to shower by myself, he wants to shower with me. So, it’s really difficult to have private time where I can just relax and be by myself. So, sometimes I like to play stupid games on my phone while we watch TV.

What I am really hoping for in the future is that he will give me one day a week to see a paramour, or friend of choice. 1. I don’t think that’s too insane to ask...

Does he need a hobby? I know I will get yelled at or at leas looked down upon for saying this but yes in some small way I view the wive's dating as a hobby it helps me deal with it in a form that isn't threatening to me. I decided that I needed to work on a hobby while she is dating; it helps me not to let the darkness in. I can love her and photography; she can love her paramours and me. Likewise if you view it from the point of view hobby time you might understand how it can be annoying to him that you spend so much time on your hobby. (I know it might not be what some people consider an appropriate perspective but it is how I can better relate, and I see so much of myself in what she has described writer as)

When I first started dating him, he told me how much he loved music. He has a full sized keyboard, had a guitar (which was damaged), and he went to school for singing. But in the three years we dated, he rarely, if ever, pursued any of these things.

I got him a new guitar in December. I’ve encouraged him to get back into playing. At first he really dragged his feet about it, but in the past week, he’s been playing a little bit every day, and has bought some accessories relating to it. I’m really happy with his improvement here, and I think it will help him to deal with my “hobby” of connecting with other people. I do agree with you, I think it can be seen as a hobby in a way.

And thank you for the podcast, I will check it out.

I feel that being poly or mono is really a part of who we are as people just like gay or straight, bi… It is also the descriptor for a style of relationship. At the end of the day we, like our relationships, are all unique. Only in retrospective can we describe them perfectly until then we have to constantly reevaluate them and redefine them in a constantly changing way. Good luck and Have him join or relay messages to us we are here to help BOTH of you..

I’ve encouraged him to join support groups or become a part of the forum, but at this point he is against the idea. I will continue to gently urge him, and we’ll see what happens. =) In the mean time, I usually just read to him what comes up if I find it relevant or interesting.
 
Re (from branches):
"Unfortunately, I still feel as if it's 'unacceptable' to do things at the spur of the moment (such as answering a phone call), because of how much it seems to bother him."

You can't even answer the phone? :eek:

Re (from branches):
"I don't answer the phone if Writer is around. Not even if it's my mom. If I want to make a phone call, to anyone, I have to leave the house."

:confused: Jeeezh.

Re:
"What I am really hoping for in the future is that he will give me one day a week to see a paramour, or friend of choice. I don't think that's too insane to ask ..."

Not insane at all, IMO.
 
Re (from branches):


You can't even answer the phone? :eek:

To be fair, he is not longer TELLING me that I can't answer the phone. I simply do not feel comfortable enough to answer it, when he's sitting there listening to every word that I say. I had a previous boyfriend that would do the same thing, and eventually started hitting me because he would come up with things he 'thought' he heard during my conversations. There was a point where Writer didn't want me to make or take calls, but now he says it's fine, but I no longer feel comfortable with it.
 
I’m trying at this one, I really am. But he does not like to talk about his feelings, so when I ask him to describe what he is thinking or feeling, he pretty much says ‘no.’ He thinks that communicating feelings causes problems. I’m trying really, really hard to get him to talk to me about his thoughts and reactions.

This was me in the beginning, I also shut down a lot too.
 
I haven’t so much as kissed anyone else.

The bigger problem was that he no longer wanted me to spend time with my completely platonic friends, either. For instance, once I was at work and wanted to get coffee with an old out of town friend that I hadn’t seen in years. He was just in town for a few days, and it was probably the only time I’d get to see him. I texted writer to say, “Hey, Allen is in town, I’d like to get coffee with him - I haven’t seen him in ten years and he’s only available tonight,” and Writer would text back “I’m not okay with that.” So, at that point, I either give up my only chance to see a friend I hadn’t seen in ten years, or Writer and I have big fight later that night. (I chose the fight, but I hope he saw my point. He would have never had an issue with that in the first three years of our relationship).

I don’t answer the phone if Writer is around. Not even if it’s my mom. If I want to make a phone call, to anyone, I have to leave the house.

. . . I haven’t been seeing paramours or even friends, but hopefully things are moving in a better direction.

I do think that my using my phone for texting, or anything really, is a trigger for him. It has been since the beginning of our relationship three years ago. But the thing is, he doesn’t give me any time to myself. Like I said, we spend about 5-6 hours a night together, cooking, playing board games or video games, or watching movies and television together. He doesn’t even like me to shower by myself, he wants to shower with me. So, it’s really difficult to have private time where I can just relax and be by myself. So, sometimes I like to play stupid games on my phone while we watch TV.

What I am really hoping for in the future is that he will give me one day a week to see a paramour, or friend of choice.

Please please PLEASE read the parts I bolded and realize you are willingly staying in an abusive situation. It is horrible that you have no time alone, horrible that you cannot make calls to friends, horrible that you cannot take calls by anyone, even relatives. All the above is absolutely heart-wrenching to read.

YOU HAVE GIVEN HIM COMPLETE CONTROL OF YOUR LIFE AND YOU ARE IN A PRISON! GET OUT! Why do you accept all of this nonsense and "let him not let you" do anything that is rather basic and normal? You have a choice. You need to save yourself. PLEASE create an escape plan.
 
Last edited:
Please please PLEASE read the parts I bolded and realize you are willingly staying in an abusive situation. It is horrible that you have no time alone, horrible that you cannot make calls to friends, horrible that you cannot take calls by anyone, even relatives. All the above is absolutely heart-wrenching to read.

As I was responding to TomSmith's post specifically, I went into a little deeper of the past. Things have definitely moved in a better direction, even when I wrote that. As I said in an earlier post, the phone thing is also somewhat by my fault, as I simply do not feel comfortable talking on the phone when he is in the apartment (walls are super thin here).

It sounds a lot worse in words because you can't see the flexibility of the situation. Things have already been changing for the better, because we are working on it together. I've been in an abusive relationship before, and I make an escape plan, and I DID flee... but I don't feel like that's necessary in this situation. Things kind of suck at times, but we are actively working on it together, and they are slowly changing. I don't think he realizes how controlling he is at times, because to him it feels as if he's being loving. We are working on it.
 
I don't think he realizes how controlling he is at times, because to him it feels as if he's being loving.
Well, you have to let him know! Instead of making excuses for him!

What would you say to a friend or coworker who told you she was in a situation like yours? Wouldn't you want to shake some sense into her?
 
Well, you have to let him know! Instead of making excuses for him!

What would you say to a friend or coworker who told you she was in a situation like yours? Wouldn't you want to shake some sense into her?

I do let him know... Hence the "we're working on it and things are changing," part of my last reply.
 
I Agree

I can relate I can totally relate that your polyamory strengthens your core relationship. I have found that to be the case for me. I cannot wait to enjoy the next phase of this life
 
Back
Top