Differences of Opinion: Coming Out

I was reading the “Taming Your Mammoth” article that Spork posted in the Articles section a couple years ago (here it is https://waitbutwhy.com/2014/06/taming-mammoth-let-peoples-opinions-run-life.html if you don’t want to click over to that area) and it really got me thinking about something that is bothering me in my life.

I get nervous about the hows and what ifs of actually telling people but at this point I am pretty much willing to be “out” to anyone. Yesterday I started a new job and I came out right away during introductions (not in a creepy TMI let me tell you all about my alternative lifestyle way, but just as part of the “fun fact” icebreaker). It seems a little silly, but I just feel a lot better starting a job knowing that I don’t have to self-censor.

My kids don’t necessarily have the words for my relationship with Ponytail, but we hide nothing from them. We hold hands, kiss....it doesn’t phase my kids to come into my room and find Ponytail in bed with me just as it doesn’t phase them when their dad is in bed with me.

Anyway, the point is, Ponytail isn’t out to his parents about us. He’s out to a few close friends and we hang out together....and he’s out to people in the kink community....but when we hang out with his parents, I am just a friend. I don’t see his parents often, but he lives with them, so I run into them occasionally.

Right away when I first met them, he said he didn’t want to have to explain my wedding ring to his mom and so we never hid the fact that I was married. Since then, his parents have met my children on several occasions. They seem to be savvy to the fact that something is up — he usually stays the night at my house once a week, when we went out of town for the weekend they asked if he was going with me, etc. They have never met Glasses but that’s just because of Glasses not being interested in coming over, not because he’s never been invited to Ponytail’s house.

It’s important to know that Ponytail never lies to his parents. He just doesn’t elaborate and/or says that a question is personal and refuses to answer. When they are around we don’t hold hands or kiss or say I love you — although the last time I was over we kissed at a time when it would have been totally possible for one of his parents to walk in on us.

So I guess what I am getting at is, is it normal that it makes me so uncomfortable that he isn’t “out” to his parents about us? Is that just my monogamist view, wanting acknowledgement and acceptance of our relationship? Wanting his parents’ “blessing”? Do I need to just let it go rather than feel like I am waiting for this milestone?
 
For me the line is whether or not I am around people as to whether I expect my partners to be out to them. I have never / will never meet Artist’s father and stepmother but don’t want to, they aren’t close and Artist prefers to tell them as little as possible. (He even plans not to explain when his wife’s partner moves in with them, which I find a bit wild but whatever. ) I’m fine with this. He’s out at work, though, and has taken me to a work party and introduced me to his sister when she was visiting from across the country.

For my part, I promised him I’d never ask him to be around someone that I wasn’t out to - so he hasn’t met my in laws (I suppose he could now) but we’re affectionate around MiniMe, etc.

Long story short, for me I’d have a hard time hiding so I wouldn’t want to be around his parents unless he was out.
 
As a rule of thumb, I prefer to be honest, direct and true to myself in my relationships and dealings with other people, and expect the same in return. That said, I don't believe everyone needs to know every single thing about me, especially when it doesn't concern them or isn't going to impact their own lives.

In an ideal world, if one happens to be poly (or gay, or bi, etc etc) coming out should be a matter of course, and the healthiest option, because it allows the person to be true to themselves and others, and honours any relationship they are in.

However, I recognise that we live in an imperfect world, and many people have troubled relationships with parents, in-laws or other family members for various reasons; often reasons that would result in a great deal of angst and drama should they decide to be completely honest about the kinds of intimate relationships in which they're involved.

In such cases, the person has to weigh up the pros and cons of "coming out" to a reception that's likely to be antagonistic, unaccepting and highly judgemental of their choices, their partner/s, and to themselves as a person, as the negative attitude can spill over and cause a great deal of drama for all concerned.

My girlfriend is not yet out to anyone in her sphere, and there are good reasons for this. I don't blame her, as not very long ago I was in the same boat. I've decided to be patient and wait till the time is right (there'll never be a time when the announcement won't cause ripples, but that time is most definitely not right now due to her living situation). It is quite likely, I may never come out to my own parents, though almost everyone else knows, but that decision is pending.
 
I don't see why this is an "either/or" binary choice for so many people.

Me, I've never been particularly closeted about any part of my life. But I really cannot see myself laying out my personal life at work. Presently, there are some co-workers who know of my polyness, & I'm happy to discuss it if asked.

On the other hand, I don't go waving banners in their faces, either. The NEED to do such strikes me as a display of insecurity, NOT pride.

There's a rather large chasm between "skulking in the shadows" & "being cool with it." And there are people, groups, & social situations in which it's fine as an open topic, & others where it'd be ill-advised & trouble-seeking.

And I don't think it's at all emotionally healthy to shame lovers or partners for not being willing/able to put in the "poly speedo" & prance around in public.

If that wasn't an explicit rule, spelled out at the very beginning of the relationship, then (like any other major mid-course change) the contract can be ripped up, the relationship ended & restarted with a new set of rules & expectations -- including ending the relationship entirely.

If the demander is expecting anything less, then the demander is being entirely unreasonable.
 
Hi MsEmotional,

Can I ask, has Ponytail said what his reasons were for not coming out to his parents? Based on your description they seem unjudgmental enough for now, but maybe they have an underside that hasn't shown up yet.

As for me, I would just as soon be out to the "whole world," yet, my two poly companions are very opposed to outing ourselves. I don't agree with their position and have tried to talk about my reasoning with them, but, as long as they don't want to come out, I will respect their preference.

Regards,
Kevin T.
 
Hi MsEmotional,

Can I ask, has Ponytail said what his reasons were for not coming out to his parents? Based on your description they seem unjudgmental enough for now, but maybe they have an underside that hasn't shown up yet.

As for me, I would just as soon be out to the "whole world," yet, my two poly companions are very opposed to outing ourselves. I don't agree with their position and have tried to talk about my reasoning with them, but, as long as they don't want to come out, I will respect their preference.

Regards,
Kevin T.

I think he just doesn’t know how to predict his mom’s reaction — which I get, because Glasses’s parents reacted in a totally different way than I would have expected. His mom is more religious than I had realized — the last time I was over she was all excited to show me a devotional book that she had. (I don’t even know what a devotional book is...) I had always assumed that she would be fine with it because she seems to like me, but now I am wondering whether she would be not so cool with me if she was confronted with the reality of my relationship with her son.

I think it is possible that Ponytail just feels like wherever the chips fall, he would prefer that his mom know and like me before she judges our relationship. And so he is just hoping that with more time and exposure, she will just figure it out and be okay with it....or figure it out, not be okay with it, but not say anything because she doesn’t have proof.

Ponytail avoids confrontation like the plague. I once gave him a communication style inventory. It measured your communication style on two axes: direct vs indirect and willing to display emotions vs not willing to display emotions. His willingness to display emotions was absolute zero — his dot was barely on the chart. He was more in the middle when it comes to direct/indirect communication. I think what it comes down to is that he is very direct when it comes to communication that doesn’t have the possibility of emotional distress, and very indirect when it comes to communication that has the potential for feelings....
 
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very indirect when it comes to communication that has the potential for feelings....
Then this is likely also true for at least one of his parents. I'm sure you can see how that would make an overt coming out uncomfortable for all involved.

What is it exactly about being closeted around them that bothers you?
 
Then this is likely also true for at least one of his parents. I'm sure you can see how that would make an overt coming out uncomfortable for all involved.

What is it exactly about being closeted around them that bothers you?

That’s a really good point about one or more of his parents being more indirect too.

I think what bothers me is that I just don’t feel like I can be myself. His mom will make strange remarks to me that make me feel like she is either trying to assess whether my relationship with my husband is on the rocks, or (simultaneously) ask me to help her son find a wife. I just want to be able to relate to her honestly.

Plus, there’s the fact that we just went through this pregnancy and loss. I look at his mom now and think, “I could have been carrying your grandchild....and you don’t even know that I am in love with your son.” It’s just kind of unnerving. What would have happened if the pregnancy had continued and we found out that the baby was Ponytail’s? Would he have told his parents that he’s poly, oh and MsEmotional is his girlfriend so those two kids of hers and her husband are now kind of part of his family,, oh, and she’s pregnant with his kid. Isn’t that a little much? Wouldn’t it be easier to tell them *something* now, in an effort to reduce the load later on when we might move in together or get married or something else big?
 
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I can somewhat relate. Hubby has asked that I stay "in the closet" as far as his family is concerned, because he doesn't want to deal with the potential fallout if his conservative parents and other relatives find out that I'm poly. I tend to be as honest as possible, and if someone asks me how things are going for me, it's hard not to mention my other partners because they're a big part of my life. So around Hubby's family, I refer to my other partners as friends, which is true in a way but isn't the whole truth. Not being able to tell the whole truth is painful for me, so I pretty much avoid Hubby's family at this point. (Which no one really seems to mind; I'm very different from them in personality and other ways, so it works better for us not to have much contact, though we get along all right when we are together.)

Other than the adult offspring of one of my partners, who lives with said partner, I haven't met any family members of my current partners, and don't expect to. That isn't how these relationships work. One of my two current partners hasn't even met Hubby or my offspring (though he has met my other partner).
 
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It would bother me in that I couldn't just be myself. I do not, nor have ever, had a need to be validated by someone's parents. I also have no need for my family to validate my relationships. Nor do I need anyone's approval. I've also never had a job in which my love life would be of any interest to my employer.
 
It would bother me in that I couldn't just be myself. I do not, nor have ever, had a need to be validated by someone's parents. I also have no need for my family to validate my relationships. Nor do I need anyone's approval. I've also never had a job in which my love life would be of any interest to my employer.

This is great for YOU (no sarcasm) but not everyone is in this position.

Put yourself in the place of the many polyamorous who work in management positions in the corporate sector or for large organisations, with the Big Boss breathing down their necks, surrounded by gossip hungry colleagues, competitors or clients who may be very conservative or want to project a particular image for the company.

Or perhaps you grew up in a Christian (or Muslim or whatever) family. In such instances, to come out as poly may risk being fired, disowned or losing the respect and even love of close family members.

You may wish to risk it for the sake of being true to yourself (a worthy stance) but so many couldn't bear the thought, or cannot afford to do so, literally.

And at risk of generalising, I think it may somewhat easier, socially, for a middle-aged, single/solo-poly guy to not have to explain himself in detail even if people figure out he's dating several women at once, because to a large sector of society, that dating behaviour simply reads as "playing the field", "dating around", having casual sex, etc. Even in this day and age, it's way more socially acceptable for a seemingly unattached male to have several lovers "on the go" than it would be for, say, a 30 year old mother to openly tell family and workmates that she has two husbands... or a husband at home and several lovers and FWBs elsewhere.
 
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Plus, there’s the fact that we just went through this pregnancy and loss. I look at his mom now and think, “I could have been carrying your grandchild....and you don’t even know that I am in love with your son.” It’s just kind of unnerving. What would have happened if the pregnancy had continued and we found out that the baby was Ponytail’s? Would he have told his parents that he’s poly, oh and MsEmotional is his girlfriend so those two kids of hers and her husband are now kind of part of his family,, oh, and she’s pregnant with his kid. Isn’t that a little much? Wouldn’t it be easier to tell them *something* now, in an effort to reduce the load later on when we might move in together or get married or something else big?
Well these are good points to discuss with Ponytail. Did you talk about how coming out would look like if you had the child? Would he have that big conversation, would he break down instead, would he just say he has a child and let them in the dark on details of the relationship arrangement?

But. You have a loss to process. The what-if thoughts seem to be a part or that. You can have the conversation with Ponytail. But I'd certainly wait with conversations and other changes/upheavals untill you are both more stable.
 
But if my family disowned me over something like that, well, they aren't much of a family, are they? I might reconsider if there was huge sums of money involved...lol.

I do get that there are some jobs that require discretion. Sprite was a teacher. I'm sure most people wouldn't care, but there is always that one asshat parent. But as far as corporations go, I wouldn't be working for something that conservative anyway. Fortunately, I am in a business where I can call my own shots.

I'm sure you are right about solo poly. When I was married, most work people just assumed I was cheating on my wife. When things went south with my business partner, he called up my wife and told her I was sleeping with someone. Her response was "Yeah...and?" LOL. And he knew we were poly. He just could never wrap his head around it.

I guess I am fortunate, though I suspect that some people are overestimating the fallout.
 
Yeah, I am a teacher, so I am not “out” to the kids for fear of what would happen if they told their parents. I endeavor to be honest about myself with the adults in my life, though, including those at work. It’s not so much that it is any of their business, it’s more that I don’t want to have to explain myself later. As Lunabunny said, it’s a lot easier for an unmarried middle aged man to keep his private life private and for people to not make assumptions. As a married mom of two young children, people will make assumptions about my relationship style and will get super confused when those assumptions are challenged. If I mention my husband one time and then talk about my boyfriend the next, it will create a litany of questions that I would prefer to just deal with in advance, if possible. Moms, in particular, have no qualms about questioning other mothers about their personal lives.
 
Well these are good points to discuss with Ponytail. Did you talk about how coming out would look like if you had the child? Would he have that big conversation, would he break down instead, would he just say he has a child and let them in the dark on details of the relationship arrangement?

But. You have a loss to process. The what-if thoughts seem to be a part or that. You can have the conversation with Ponytail. But I'd certainly wait with conversations and other changes/upheavals untill you are both more stable.

Ponytail and I never had the conversation about what would have happened As far as telling his parents about the baby. He was very much of the mindset that there is no point in stressing about something until we are sure it is happening. He wanted to wait until he knew for sure that he was the father before worrying about exactly what his steps would be with his parents.

I have expressed that I would really like him to talk to his parents and he understands my feelings and says he’s working on it. On the one hand, I feel like I should choose to avoid contact with his parents until he tells them, so that I don’t have to worry about my feelings of awkwardness....on the other, I want to hang out with his parents more so that they will like me and (hopefully?) be happy whenever he actually does tell them.

I do know that he *wants* them to know eventually. When we first got together he expressed that being open with his family was important to him. I just have a hard time understanding what he hopes to gain by drawing out the process. I think, in particular, because waiting until Glasses’s parents “figured it out on their own” was such a disaster, I am getting more and more anxious the longer that Ponytail’s parents have to draw their own conclusions.
 
If it's helpful... I actually waited until my family had met my partner a few times before coming out and letting them know that we are poly and that he was married. I did it because I wanted them to like him first and make it harder for them to make stupid assumptions like "he's just using you and he's awful" because it would go against what they experienced by knowing him already.

BUT that being said.... my family had met him like.... 3 times? And we were at the point where he was being invited to family get togethers on holidays and I had to excuse him not being there even though all of his family lived far away.

You've already met Ponytails parents though.... so they either like you or they don't. Dragging it out to the point where they are suspicious of you and think you're a cheater and hurting your family isn't going to actually make them like you, it's going to make them hate you. So there's a turning point where waiting until they get to know you more stops working for you and starts working against you. Sounds to me like you're THERE and he needs to step up and just open up already.

Normally I'd say that it's everyone's own personal business if they want to be out or not, but in this case, if you LIVE with your parents and you want to be able to have your poly partners over, then I personally don't think that you get the luxury of expecting your partners to lie about their lives and keep secrets for you, unless maybe they're willing to do so for those first few encounters when someone is meeting a person before that initial opening up.... and even that is still just a nice thing that a partner can do, but shouldn't be an expectation.
 
If it's helpful... I actually waited until my family had met my partner a few times before coming out and letting them know that we are poly and that he was married. I did it because I wanted them to like him first and make it harder for them to make stupid assumptions like "he's just using you and he's awful" because it would go against what they experienced by knowing him already.

BUT that being said.... my family had met him like.... 3 times? And we were at the point where he was being invited to family get togethers on holidays and I had to excuse him not being there even though all of his family lived far away.

Can you give me a little more info on the situation that you were in? I don't know your backstory well.... Did you present the partner as a "friend" and then come out about the relationship? Or did you present the partner as a partner and then come out about the fact that it was a non-mono relationship? Were you "single" except for this partner, or did your family know you were already seeing someone else?

Thanks!
 
I would compare my situation to being more like in Ponytail's place... But not quite. So I was "single" though I was poly and dating other people but I just don't really talk a ton about my dating life. So I presented my partner to my mother, brother, etc as the person that I was dating, but just didn't tell them that he was married already and that we both dated other people.

It's not fully the same setup that you have, but the point was that they met my partner without the misconceptions of poly in place so they just got to make a decision about liking him based on his actual personality instead of also having to process a big lifestyle change they didn't know about.

In Ponytail's case, they know you as a friend of his that is nice and kind and they can get to like you... And then it's like "well glad you like her cause we are dating and are consensual non-monogamous and I actually get along will with her husband and kids!“ ta da! Lol
 
Oh man, if only there was one coming out, or one way to be out.

I had more of a dilemma over this on coming out about being a big ol' queer. My parents are very Christian. Ultimately, I ended up being outed anyway.

I also know some people for whom it isn't safe for them to be out. One is a wheelchair user who lives with her extremely conservative parents. Another depends on their parents for shelter. People who have contentious relationships with a coparent, who could lose custody of their kid(s), it might not be safe for them to be out. People who could lose the job they need to support their families. Safety first.

As for me, my personal decision on being out is that I'm not going to treat my sexuality and other relationships like a dirty little secret, because they're not. And people look to you for how you treat yourself. So I'm going to live my truth like it's normal and hope I don't become a discrimination statistic. I wear my gay flag lapel pin at work and I'm not closeted about being poly, even though it only comes up when I'm inviting work friends to personal events. I deserve to live my truth as much as any straight white person with two and a half kids.

At this point, I won't date anyone who isn't out. I'm not going to be someone's dirty secret. If you want to rest on your married, straight privilege, that's your call, but I'm not the partner for you.
 
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