not-quite-poly: lovers & friends w/ benefits

Had my date with Married Open Relationship Guy and I think it went well. He is genuinely nice, very intelligent, and we seemed to be hitting it off. There was some touching going on and very obvious mutual attraction between us.

We talked about his agreements with his wife and how they approach non-monogamy. Basically, he and his wife are very new to being Open. They've been married a long time and opened up after having emerged from a difficult year repairing their marriage after some cheating happened. They worked through a lot of issues, regained each other's trust, became closer, and felt like non-monogamy is something they could do well without losing sight of their priorities. In fact, his wife found my profile first on OKC and showed it to him. She has one steady lover and another one she just started to see. He has a lover he sees about every few weeks, I think.

I asked him about his rules regarding how often he can see someone and what that means in terms of level of involvement, and how it makes me feel like I'm not in control of my own relationship if someone else is calling the shots about how often I can see him. He said he totally understood my perspective and that it was really more of a guideline than a rule.

I asked him what he meant when he wrote to me about avoiding "intense emotions." He said that perhaps he overstated some things, really, and we talked about how sometimes what you're looking for has to be strongly worded on a dating site to make sure that anyone who is looking for the One and Only, or even a second "husband" type of relationship really gets that that's not what you're about. The stuff about "no intense emotions" is something that he feels will help him not make a foolish mistake like the "stupid and selfish" things he did when he fell in love with someone and cheated, which naturally really hurt his wife, their marriage, and the woman he was seeing, and he doesn't want to go down that path again. I get that. He's still a little skittish and scared of what could happen if he loses "control" and falls in love.

I did tell him that, although I wasn't looking to fall in love or asking him to change his rules, I would not avoid whatever feelings come up. I let him know that if I get involved with someone on a fairly casual level and any deeper feelings develop, that I would not expect the parameters of the relationship to change, and that I see my feelings are my own responsibility. I told him what I envision for myself (my poly dream of having four lovers while being independent) and he thought it was great.

He also told me how different and freeing it feels to be with someone else other than his wife when there is consent and openness, versus sneaking around which felt like shit when he was having that affair, and how much he is really enjoying getting to know people whose history is not so familiar to him, as his wife's is - in other words, it's been an adventure. He really wants what I want -- an ongoing thing with a friend whose company he enjoys, with whom he can have interesting conversations, enjoy doing stuff together, and be affectionate and have sex with.

I gotta say, he certainly did not come across like someone who was going to avoid any kind of emotions coming up. He is very open and honest, and let me see his vulnerable side, which is always appealing. He's super smart, witty, and affectionate. At the bar, he touched me, even blushed a few times (!), stroked my leg, and we held hands for a bit. He seemed really into me, really attracted to me, and wants to see me again when he gets back in town after a trip he needs to take for his work. Outside the bar, he kissed me sweetly and pulled me in close to him. It felt great. I texted him after I got home, and he texted back. He said he really had a great time and is looking forward to getting together again.

I like him. I am still cautious, but my sense is that this could work for an easy, casual relationship.
 
Awesome! Yay for good dates!
 
Whoo hoo!
 
I will be bookmarking this thread for updates.
I do wonder whatever happened to the actor and the Sassy Pants. :D
 
So glad to hear this, NYCindie! It sounds like he and his wife have legitimate and thoughtful reasons for their approach to non-monogamy.

I sympathize with this guy for his "won't develop intense emotions" statement in his OKC profile. As you yourself surely know, it can be VERY hard to word what you're looking for when it's not One True Love (nor Several True Loves/Poly Spouses), but also not meaningless sex. I stumbled through multiple attempts at wording my profile. My initial goal was to keep away people like my ex, whom I had loved like a brother/best friend but who did not value any type of sexual friendship or intense platonic friendship if it wasn't a "real girlfriend."

At first I had language on my profile that was off-putting (similar to "no intense emotions!") and sounded coldly casual, when really all I meant was that I wanted a fun, caring friendship with no expectation of serious romance. Lately I have been using terms like "relationship anarchy," which work mostly for people who already know what they mean. I have moved away from calling it "not quite poly" to embracing it as "my type of autonomous poly."

The result has been that I now feel quite centered, happy and confident in my approach to dating, even though my approach has not yielded anyone new lately. I still have my same steady lover-friend of 3+ years now...a connection that continues to grow in unexpected ways despite the fact that we still eschew the terms boyfriend and girlfriend to describe our relationship. But that's another story I guess!
 
So glad to hear this, NYCindie!
Thanks!

It sounds like he and his wife have legitimate and thoughtful reasons for their approach to non-monogamy.
I guess so, yeah. They definitely went for "opening up" with their eyes wide open. I still think their approach a bit too fear-based, but I guess I can't fault him for that. I think he's carrying a lot of guilt around after cheating, and it will take a while to get over that.

I sympathize with this guy for his "won't develop intense emotions" statement in his OKC profile. As you yourself surely know, it can be VERY hard to word what you're looking for when it's not One True Love (nor Several True Loves/Poly Spouses), but also not meaningless sex. I stumbled through multiple attempts at wording my profile . . . all I meant was that I wanted a fun, caring friendship with no expectation of serious romance.
Yes, it is tricky! I've also rewritten mine numerous times, and am still not sure it conveys what my brand of lover-friendship means to me. However, Married Open Relationship Guy (MORG?), said that what I'd written resonated with him, and he seemed to understand very well what I am looking for. I get no messages for weeks and weeks, though. Still, that's okay if the ones who do send a message actually get me.

Lately I have been using terms like "relationship anarchy," which work mostly for people who already know what they mean. I have moved away from calling it "not quite poly" to embracing it as "my type of autonomous poly."
I like a lot of what I have learned about relationship anarchy, but I don't think I'm there yet, as far as saying that is what I am striving for. I guess I still feel like I don't know enough about RA to claim it as what I am doing.

The result has been that I now feel quite centered, happy and confident in my approach to dating, even though my approach has not yielded anyone new lately. I still have my same steady lover-friend of 3+ years now...a connection that continues to grow in unexpected ways despite the fact that we still eschew the terms boyfriend and girlfriend to describe our relationship. But that's another story I guess!
Centered, happy, and confident is pretty damn good! Yay, you!:D
 
This has been a very educational conversation and one that is helping me consider what types of relationships I am looking for and could be comfortable with. My first "poly" relationship was weird when his main squeeze/girlfriend admitted she really didn't like poly at our first get together and he disappeared on me after that caused their relationship to implode. He came back around last week after I sent him a message on an unrelated note but I don't know if my comfort level can recover from his disappearing - which he said he did not do with his friends.

I am in an almost mentor like situation with a married man that identifies as poly, kinky and a few other 'labels'. We had coffee a few times and several text and phone conversations as I explore new lifestyles and see what may fit. Any play with him will be limited and I feel it is more like a FWB situation. I've been invited to join a group his wife has and one of the reasons I kept talking with him is his care of his wife and openness with her when she has called when we were out. Apart from that - have been to a couple of poly events with a local group and am having some conversations with men on OKC. One of them has suggested the something more than FWB and less than a girlfriend. Which brought me to this conversation! I really appreciate the sharing here and the education it provides.

Would love to know how NYCindie's potential developed out and Meera - will stalk for details :D
 
Would love to know how NYCindie's potential developed . . .
Hi there. I am not sure if I posted an update anywhere, but the married poly guy and I did have a second date. I guess that was sometime in May. We had a very pleasant time - had lunch and made out. :D He asked if we could go back to my apartment and I said no, because I wasn't feeling ready for that. Even though the parameters are supposed to be casual, I still didn't want to jump in bed with him right away. Yes, I liked him and enjoyed kissing him, but was not prepared mentally to bring him home that day. Plus my apartment was a mess, LOL. So, we hung out a little while longer and then parted company.

I thought the date ended on a good note. He texted me to say he enjoyed himself. About a week or two later, we emailed about trying to schedule something. Then he told me that his summer was going to be very busy due to a work project and he didn't think he'd have time to see me over the summer after all. He sounded like he sincerely regretted that, but who knows. I told him no worries, to just let me know if he becomes available and I said something like, "If schedules open up and we really want to get together, we'll make it work." He appreciated my flexibility and understanding.

We touched base maybe twice through the summer and I haven't heard from him since. I really don't know if he was making an excuse or what, but it doesn't really bother me. He is a really nice guy, and I know he was into me, but anything could've happened since May - he and his wife might not even be open anymore, I dunno. If he gets in touch, he gets in touch. I was thinking about reaching out to him this coming week just to say hello. So, we'll see.

Meantime, there are two other guys I met while out socially. One is a pilot who doesn't live here but flies private planes in and out of NYC every now and then. I told him to get in touch when next he knows he will be here and I'll make time for him. He is what I would call a spitfire - lots of fun and upbeat energy. So, I'm looking forward to hearing from him. The other guy is someone with whom I feel there is potential for something ongoing in a more steady or frequent way, but still as a FWB. He is my age, handsome, smart, funny, successful, and sexy. There is definitely chemistry between us and I plan on getting in touch with him this week to see if we can schedule something.
 
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Whatever happened to the theater guy that you knew from your past and you wearing your "Sassy Pants"?
I love the update and hearing about your experiences.
 
Some of what is described in this thread souds to me like relationship anarchy.
To me, polyamory is about romantic love - not even just once, but two times or more. There are grey areas between one night stands and romantically comitted relationships, but I have a hard time calling having lovers poly.

I have friends who have sex with their friends, for instance a close friend who keeps having sex with his ex, that also has a sort of half best friend status in his life. Some wonder how to label them. Sometimes even he wonders how to label the relation. I regard them as close friends, regardless of them having sex or not. I think that makes most sense, as they don't seem smitten but seem to care for each other.

If someone I knew was seeing someone sexually that wasn't really a friendship as well, I am sure I would be very bored hearing about it. Not because I don't care about people's experience, but because others' sexlife is boring, but their social life is interesting. Their experience is interesting to the degree that this person has an impact and to the degree that we can meet them and get to know them. Some person I don't know gave you an orgasm once or perhaps you see them twice a year? I am not 20 anymore, I think that is very boring to hear about. If they really know you and have the status in your life on the level of a friend, on the other hand, they become interesting.
 
Some of what is described in this thread souds to me like relationship anarchy.
Yeah, so? What's your point?

Some person I don't know gave you an orgasm once or perhaps you see them twice a year? I am not 20 anymore, I think that is very boring to hear about.
Well, it's a good thing, then, that the people posting in this thread aren't conducting their love lives to give you a good story and keep you entertained! Was your only reason for posting here to criticize and put down people who enjoy having casual lovers and mostly sexual relationships with friends? Now doing that is boring!
 
Ugh, Norwegianpoly, comments like yours were EXACTLY the reason I started this thread 4 years ago!

NYCIndie beat me to it...what is your point? It sounds like you are saying that people who "have lovers" are, by your definition, not really poly; and it is implied that being "not really poly" is somehow worse or lesser than being truly poly. Can you not see that this idea has a lot of bizarre judgment attached to it?

I find people's romantic lives as boring as you find people's sex lives. I know a very happy poly person who is often exclaiming about her "new partner" or "new significant other" whom she just met a week or two ago. In my opinion it is very silly to have a serious romance only a few weeks in; but really it's just out of my experience because I just don't (and don't want to) experience love this way. So I would never tell this poly person that she's being silly or doing poly wrong because she's obviously doing things the way that things work for her.
 
The word "lover" has "love" in it... so how is it not poly? Friendship is a lighter form of love, in my opinion. I have friends about whom I care more deeply and with whom I have a much deeper connection than I've had with past partners to whom I said, "I love you" and heard it back from them.

Not everyone sees it that way, of course, but to me, if you have a deep affection for someone and care about them, and you're in a sexual relationship with them, it doesn't matter whether you're calling it a relationship or "being in love" or friends with benefits. It still falls under the poly umbrella, in my opinion. If you're having sex with someone who isn't a *close* friend, or who's only a fuck buddy (i.e. you only see them to have sex and don't spend time with them in any other context), you might make the argument that that isn't polyamory... but that doesn't mean neither of the people involved isn't polyamorous, just that it isn't necessarily a polyamorous relationship construct.

If you get bored hearing about friends' sex lives, ask them to stop telling you. But your boredom isn't a reason for them not to have the lives they have, nor is it a reason why their interactions aren't polyamorous. It's solely a reason for you to ask them not to talk to you about their sex lives. You live your way. Let others live theirs.
 
If you're having sex with someone who isn't a *close* friend, or who's only a fuck buddy (i.e. you only see them to have sex and don't spend time with them in any other context), you might make the argument that that isn't polyamory... but that doesn't mean neither of the people involved isn't polyamorous, just that it isn't necessarily a polyamorous relationship construct.
True. relationship structure and how people are wired are not the same. I was making a point about relationship structure.
 
I have friends about whom I care more deeply and with whom I have a much deeper connection than I've had with past partners to whom I said, "I love you" and heard it back from them.
I am getting confused as to why you use these kind of love affections for people you only care medium about. Maybe the language is confusing me. At least in my language, you only say "I love you" or the equivalent if you care deeply about the person, so I simply would not say that unless I meant to convey that I experienced our connection as being very deep.

True, sometimes platonic frienship relationships are very profound. I have friends that I feel almost "in love" with. The asexual communty are very exiting these days, elevating the status of close frienship and figuring out all kinds of words for those connections. Friendships are very important in most people's lives. But they are also not romantic love, which is the basis for polyamory.
 
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The way I look at it is that I have several relationships and they are all in different phases. And some are more serious than others. I don't think that makes me "not poly".
 
Was your only reason for posting here to criticize and put down people who enjoy having casual lovers and mostly sexual relationships with friends?
My reason was to say that if a person have casual lovers and mostly sexual relationship with friends, that is not polyamory. Or monogamy. It may be something very interesting that the asexual/aromantic folks have words for, if you have a close connection to a friend and sprinkle sex on top of it - people might even want to live with a friend and stil not be partners. But then it is something different and amazing that is not romantic love.
 
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