Dealing with Asymmetry?

polyrhythmic

New member
Pardon the info dump, but here goes:

I've been married for about six years, together with my wife--let's call her A--for about ten years. We recently opened up our marriage and are exploring polyamory. We're in something of an FWB situation with another couple that we met through a dating app (I say "something of an..." because I'm not sure if it's going to morph into more of a dating relationship, but everyone is romantically/sexually into everyone else, so we'll see how that evolves) and we're also starting to meet other people individually. We're both bi, so we're getting in touch with both men and women, though it's primarily women at this point for both of us.

Prior to this experience, A and I have rarely been apart. We do the same activities, have pretty much all the same interests, have a lot of the same friends (though we haven't lived in this city long, and I feel like the friends are "hers" and I just tag along) etc...we were joined at the hip. Now that we're exploring polyamory, we're spending more time apart, and probably will spend even MORE time apart as we each develop individual relationships. That's exciting, but also scary because we've been defined by each other for so long. Yay, mono relationships.

The problem is, she has so far been way more successful at meeting and connecting with people than I have. I'm a little more introverted than she is, and she's also had the help of a platonic friends app designed specifically for female friendship, so she's been able to build up a me-independent network while I'm still wallowing at home most of the time. Both of us have struggled through depression in the past, but her depressed period was a few years before mine, so she has had time to pull herself out of it and build a life for herself, whereas I just got my depression under control about six months ago and am still dealing with the aftereffects.

I don't want our relationship to devolve into notch counting (how many "dates" we have or matches or whatever), but at the same time I feel a little worthless at times because she seems to be swimming in people who like her and want to be with her, while I have a hard time keeping a single e-conversation going. I think some of it has to do with gender dynamics (women seem to text/communicate more freely with each other, and I think men (rightfully) have to demonstrate that they're not shitbags and/or creeps before women open up to them), and some of it has to do with my own habits.

I know I need to spend some time on myself, but I can't help feeling a little left in the dust, particularly because I helped her through her depression in the past before descending into my own. Now she's free and clear and this meeting-people-and-forging-a-connection stuff seems to come easily to her (and I often forget that it took her years, with a lot of help from me, to get to this point) while I'm struggling to keep up.

So, any advice on dealing with this feeling of asymmetry? Is there any way to deal with it other than self-improvement and time (which I know I need to do anyway)?
 
I just want to offer my sympathy. It sounds hard on you, and kind of sad.

Do you feel support from your wife?
It's understandable that you feel a little lonely when she's away, but in the time you two have together, is she present enough with you?
 
I am sorry you struggle. I hope you feel better for the vent.

You seem very articulate and you know what you need -- self improvement and time to work on skills you didn't develop before.

she has had time to pull herself out of it and build a life for herself, whereas I just got my depression under control about six months ago and am still dealing with the aftereffects.

So... why did you guys Open at this point in time? Rather than you spending some time preparing/healing from depression more first? :confused:

Because the load from just Opening is load enough. Without also adding "Depression recovery" load on top.

Is it that things are going too fast? Is it possible to consider it more like "a series of Openings" rather than just "Open?" Could that help you?

Would she be willing to have some pauses?

Like if we were dating. In this first opening, I developed a steady GF. I would not stop seeing her just because you needed a pause from the flurry of activity and how it affects our shared household.

But I could take a break from dating and not be adding MORE partners. I would make sure I an attentive to you and GF. Not behaving like "kid in a candy store." Then after a few weeks break, we can have another Opening where we can date. Then a pause. Then date. Like stair step? Eventually you each have to date without these pauses and be ok having your separate dating processes be what they are. But if you were pretty much joined at the hip -- that could take a transition.

I feel a little worthless at times because she seems to be swimming in people who like her and want to be with her, while I have a hard time keeping a single e-conversation going.

So what do you think before you feel worthless? What kind of comparison are you making? Are you able to catch yourself comparing so you can stop that thinking behavior?

I can't help feeling a little left in the dust.... while I'm struggling to keep up.

Why do you have to "keep up?" What's that mean? Are you also trying to compete with her and not just comparing?

You are not willing for your story to unfold however it does? And be ok that it is different than her story? :confused:

I know depression is not jogging. But if it were? It almost sounds like you are going "I just started job 6 months ago. I'm working toward my first 5K. My partner started jogging years ago. She's done 5ks and 10ks and is working on a half marathon. I cannot keep up with her in a half marathon!"

Well... why would you even expect yourself to do a 13.1 miler when you just started jogging? :confused:

It's sort of like that here. If you are recently out of depression, and are just now learning how to deal with that, build up a friend network, and exercise social skills that weren't strengths for you in the first place. So what's with these unrealistic expectations you put on yourself to be like you partner who has those skills already? :confused:

You don't want to give yourself any transition time? :confused:

I think you could be kinder to yourself .

Galagirl
 
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Thanks for the kind responses, everyone.

Do you feel support from your wife?
It's understandable that you feel a little lonely when she's away, but in the time you two have together, is she present enough with you?

Yes, I do feel a good deal of support from her. We talk a lot about our issues and our feelings about what's going on. I let her know when I'm feeling left out or jealous (which is happening less and less often) and we look at ways to alleviate that. But I don't want to put her in a position where she feels responsible for my emotions, and I want her to be able to share her excited, crush emotions with me without fear of me shutting down or feeling bad, you know?

So... why did you guys Open at this point in time? Rather than you spending some time preparing/healing from depression more first?

It just kind of happened. We had been talking about it for a few years (some of it WHILE I was depressed, so we worked through that fear of being replaced etc. pretty early on), and finally decided to take the plunge because she had a friend (who she actually met through the platonic friends app) who was really into her, and I gave them my consent. That particular relationship didn't work out for unrelated reasons, but we kind of went in head first from there.

Would she be willing to have some pauses?

We actually did pause for a little while, forgoing our individual prospects in favor of focusing on our relationship with the couple (we'll call them J&S, in case they come up again). But she is developing a relationship with S over text (not sure if it's romantic or platonic at this point, though there's sex involved with all four of us), and it felt a little unfair that she could hang out with S individually but I couldn't get together with any of my potential individual matches, so we nixed that.

But I could take a break from dating and not be adding MORE partners. I would make sure I an attentive to you and GF. Not behaving like "kid in a candy store." Then after a few weeks break, we can have another Opening where we can date. Then a pause. Then date. Like stair step? Eventually you each have to date without these pauses and be ok having your separate dating processes be what they are. But if you were pretty much joined at the hip -- that could take a transition.

That makes sense, we could try that. And it HAS been a transition, but I feel like I'm spending more time processing and thinking and talking and she's spending time just DOING. I feel like it's going to catch up to her at some point, that I'm going to do something that she previously thought was OK, but it's going to make her hit an emotional brick wall when it actually happens.

So what do you think before you feel worthless? What kind of comparison are you making? Are you able to catch yourself comparing so you can stop that thinking behavior?

The comparison comes in when I look at the amount of attention she's receiving vs. the amount I receive. It sounds really, really petty when I put it that way. What helps me is thinking that the number of people doesn't matter, it's the quality of the people...and also that PEOPLE ARE NOT THINGS. You can't just compare them and rank them, they're not trophies, they're not need-meeting machines. I know these things intellectually, but the 'ol heart has a little trouble keeping up sometimes. So when she's sitting next to me on the couch texting fun, pretty, activist women (you know, the kind I'd like to date too) and I'm just watching Top Chef in silence, it just feels bad. At the same time, I don't own her, and I want her to have fun in her relationships without having to babysit me. Hello, guilt cycle.

Why do you have to "keep up?" What's that mean? Are you also trying to compete with her and not just comparing?

You touched the root of the problem there. I know I'm trying to compete, to "keep up", and that that's not a healthy model for relationships, but I keep doing it anyway. Things would be much easier if we were all robots, I think.
 
Hi polyrhythmic,

It sounds a bit like it would help you to get out there and just socialize a little, make some new friends, without pressuring yourself that you have to date. Maybe there's a club that's centered around something you're interested in. This would be something you would do on your own so you didn't have to be sitting by A all the time losing the "fun texting" contest.

That's one possibility anyway.
Sincerely,
Kevin T.
 
The comparison comes in when I look at the amount of attention she's receiving vs. the amount I receive. It sounds really, really petty when I put it that way.
Actually, no, it doesn't sound petty to me. I sounds like you would like more attention. So you are envious of that. I think it's ok to want attention.
 
It may sound persnickety, but you might want to stop using "feel" interchangeable for "think." Leave "feel" for actual emotions. And "think" for your thgouhts. See if that helps bring you more clarity. And if that lightens your load any.

I take the liberty of changing it here.

That makes sense, we could try that.

And it HAS been a transition, but I feel like THINK I'm spending more time processing and thinking and talking and she's spending time just DOING. I feel like THINK it's going to catch up to her at some point. That I'm going to do something that she previously thought was OK, but it's going to make her hit an emotional brick wall when it actually happens.

Give it a try then and see if it helps some. For the other part...

Isn't her emotional management her job? Why are you not willing for her to deal with it and have her learning process?

A moment ago you were saying...

But I don't want to put her in a position where she feels responsible for my emotions, and I want her to be able to share her excited, crush emotions with me without fear of me shutting down or feeling bad, you know?

You do not want to make her responsible for doing your emotional management. So why are you taking responsibility for her emotional management? :confused:

I think if you guys had a habit in the recent past of being "joined at the hip" with no clear boundaries, putting them back in place now IS going to be a transition. These things are your job, your responsibility. These things are her job, her responsibilities. These things are "our job, our shared responsibilities." Take the time to figure those out.

Trust her to carry her own load and trust her to ask for help if she needs it. Don't pre-worry for her in advance when nobody has asked you to. Letting that load go might help you feel better. It is not your job carry all the baggage in the world. Only do your fair share. If you try to carry it all --- well, burn out is not going to help depression!

So when she's sitting next to me on the couch texting fun, pretty, activist women (you know, the kind I'd like to date too) and I'm just watching Top Chef in silence, it just feels bad.

So it isn't so much jealousy but envy.

  • jealousy: I have something I am afraid others will take away
  • envy: others have something that I want for myself.

Coupled with time management/being present maybe?

It's ok that she gets more attention right now. You will get attention as your skills grow to. And as you say -- it's not the quantity but the quality for you.... so don't sweat it.

With the time management/being present? You could ask her to do her texting stuff in another room. If she's going to watch TV with you, be present and not off elsewhere via her phone. You could speak up more about that rather than sit around feeling bad.

At the same time, I don't own her, and I want her to have fun in her relationships without having to babysit me. Hello, guilt cycle.

She can keep having her fun. But if she said she was going to watch TV with you, she could follow through on that. Or don't promise to hang out watching TV in the first place. That's not "babysitting you." That's her being a person of her Word.

Or if no promise was made and you find her phone thing distracting? Speak up. She's not a mind reader.

Tell her you find her phone fiddling distracting, you want to watch your show, and ask if she'd mind doing it elsewhere. Or you get up and watch TV elsewhere -- on your computer or something. But be more assertive and less passive about meeting your need for distraction free TV time.

See if that helps lighten your load.

You touched the root of the problem there. I know I'm trying to compete, to "keep up", and that that's not a healthy model for relationships, but I keep doing it anyway. Things would be much easier if we were all robots, I think.

Why would you want to be a robot? Some feelings are fun to feel. Some are not. All of them pass.

Growth happens at the edges of the comfort zone. If one stays inside the comfort zone, one does not grow. It's not supposed to feel comfortable. More like "comfortably uncomfortable" ... when one deliberately chooses to grow a skill. You pay the price of admission (reasonable discomfort) in order to gain the skill.

If you took up jogging, you would expect some acceptable workout soreness as you build up. You could ease that discomfort by planning workings that build -- 20 min workout, then 30 min, then 40. Not go from zero workouts to clocking 3 hour workouts right off the bat! That would be UNCOMFORTABLE uncomfortable and you risk serious injury. That's why I suggested the dating pauses -- ramp it up. Not just leap in.

You sound like you are able to notice when you are having "compete" urges. Maybe that's enough for this week. Just note when they happen. Next week try to do something different, instead of "doing it anyway." See if over time they pop up less. And see if over time you find other ways to cope with the urge.

Why do you keep competing anyway? Is it that you are afraid you will be left behind or something? :confused:

Galagirl
 
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She may have more opportunities than you, and so can be more actively engaging with others, but these interactions may eventually be unsatisfying if they turn out to me more about sex and not about love. This problem could balance out as she becomes more discerning, and you meet more people.

I would have more of an issue with the amount of TIME a partner spends elsewhere, if I don't have options to spend similar "quality" time with someone as well. I enjoy relationships because of the pleasant time we spend together - if that is significantly reduced, leaving me with a lot more time alone than before, then it probably wouldn't work for me long-term. If poly is about loving more, and I'm loving less because of it, then something needs to change - at least from my perspective.
 
Thanks again for your insights, folks. I'm glad I stumbled upon a space with such supportive and emotionally-sensitive people.

I agree with kdt and everyone else that I do need to work on myself. Focus on doing the things I like to do and finding like-minded people to do them with rather than trying to start something romantic out of thin air. I'm working on strategies for getting out and doing this more, but it's hard to do alone. I'm the type that's more comfortable being invisible and observing rather than putting myself out there, and I much prefer listening to people than being the center of attention; I guess that has to change a little.

GalaGirl: It may sound persnickety, but you might want to stop using "feel" interchangeable for "think." Leave "feel" for actual emotions. And "think" for your thgouhts. See if that helps bring you more clarity. And if that lightens your load any.

I THINK this is good advice. Thanks again, GalaGirl: you are crushin' it in this thread, and other threads I've read.

You do not want to make her responsible for doing your emotional management. So why are you taking responsibility for her emotional management?

Because that's what I do, and another thing I'm working on. I get so focused on other people's pleasure and happiness that I forget my own sometimes.

You could ask her to do her texting stuff in another room. If she's going to watch TV with you, be present and not off elsewhere via her phone. You could speak up more about that rather than sit around feeling bad.

Yeah, I should do that. I need to stop telling myself that things *shouldn't* be such and such way, like that I *shouldn't* feel bad about simple text messages, and instead allow myself to feel the feelings and process them. I think forbidding her from texting around me is a bit of overkill, and won't actually help the problem, but instead will just kick the can down the road.

If you took up jogging, you would expect some acceptable workout soreness as you build up. You could ease that discomfort by planning workings that build -- 20 min workout, then 30 min, then 40. Not go from zero workouts to clocking 3 hour workouts right off the bat! That would be UNCOMFORTABLE uncomfortable and you risk serious injury. That's why I suggested the dating pauses -- ramp it up. Not just leap in.

Thank you again, that's a great analogy. I have to keep reminding myself that this conquering-depression stuff is hard work, and that it wasn't exactly easy for her either. She's just had more time and space to get through it.

Why do you keep competing anyway? Is it that you are afraid you will be left behind or something?

Deep down, I think so. I know she's not going to leave, she's assured me of that repeatedly. And vice versa. That should be good enough (there I go again, with the *should*), but things just seem so easy for her that I can picture myself slowly fading into the background of our relationship. I think that's just my irrational fear, though.

central: She may have more opportunities than you, and so can be more actively engaging with others, but these interactions may eventually be unsatisfying if they turn out to me more about sex and not about love. This problem could balance out as she becomes more discerning, and you meet more people.

Yeah, I think that's very true. I have heard that, in general, poly women have an easier time starting relationships, but that poly men have an easier time finding good poly relationships. Does that hold with your experience?

I've seen that in my own short experience. I deleted my Tinder account because the men all wanted sex immediately (not my bag) and the women were mostly looking for LTRs with single, non-poly people. She's got about 10-15 matches and about 6 ongoing conversations, but she hasn't really met with anyone yet. Now I'm on OK Cupid and having much more luck with finding and talking to people, but she hasn't moved over to that platform yet.

TL;DR: Put some friends in my own eye before I gripe about the potential lovers in A's eye. Or something.
 
Focus on doing the things I like to do and finding like-minded people to do them with rather than trying to start something romantic out of thin air. I'm working on strategies for getting out and doing this more, but it's hard to do alone. I'm the type that's more comfortable being invisible and observing rather than putting myself out there, and I much prefer listening to people than being the center of attention; I guess that has to change a little.

Work with what you like. You don't have to change your whole persona -- there are other introverts in the world. Seek them out. Go see movies and plays in small venus, cozy concerts or open mic nights. Book clubs or lectures. Take a ceramics class. Smaller, quieter activities that attracts similar personalities.

NOT the big rah-rah stuff in huge spaces -- like football games and tailgate parties.

Why do you keep competing anyway? Is it that you are afraid you will be left behind or something?

Deep down, I think so. I know she's not going to leave, she's assured me of that repeatedly. And vice versa. That should be good enough (there I go again, with the *should*), but things just seem so easy for her that I can picture myself slowly fading into the background of our relationship. I think that's just my irrational fear, though.

I noticed you use a lot of "should" and "should not" talk. I am glad to see you are aware of that habit. How about working on changing it to "could" and "could not" instead? Might lighten the load some mentally/depression wise. If you have a therapist, talk to them about that stuff. If you don't have a therapist, seek one.

Could face the fear head on. Say she does leave. How would you cope? Break ups mean not living together. Where would you move to and live? Break ups are sad, so how would you deal with those feelings and help yourself heal?

I think when you are confident in your coping skills and your ability to figure stuff out and make a plan to deal with the unexpected? Then you don't have to sweat her leaving or not leaving. You can know deep down that either way YOU CAN HANDLE IT and whatever Life throws your way. You might have a preference for her to stay, and want her to stay. But not the end of the the world is she does not.

Then you might be more able to relax mentally. Not be plagued by all these thoughts about competing, comparing, envy, etc. that seem to stem from fueling the fear.

If you are going to be fueling stuff in your head, I suggest you stop fueling "fearfulness" and start fueling "coping-ness" instead.

Galagirl
 
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Oh, an additional wrinkle that I forgot to mention: A and I got married very young (thanks Christian upbringing), in our early 20's. We were each others' first sexual partner (well, for PIV at least; I had had a couple of girlfriends before I met her). I think that's part of why this has been something of a struggle: neither of us has any experience dating!
 
neither of us has any experience dating!
Yah, totally with you there. I didn't have a girlfriend until I went off to college, got involved with a sophomore, five years later was dumped just after I met the woman I remained with for almost 13 years, got divorced. Suddenly, I was turning 36, single for the first time in my adult life, & had never actually learned how to date. :eek:

And yes, it DOES suck getting established as a poly male. Whether talking poly or nudism or swinging or even just plain vanilla social gatherings, it's always women that will find it easiest to get invited -- in fact, more than a few really wish that more people would leave them the hell alone & stop the "hit me with a shovel" demands for attention.

Then again, when word got around that our marriage was openly poly, I got a LOT of flirtations (believe me, I ain't handsome ;)), & a few of these led to steady relationships when they realised we were totally for real. Some of the aforementioned women, tired of everyone chasing, realized there was no way I was going to demand a fulltime relationship much less exclusivity, & sorta came after me -- matter of fact, my marriage's stability reassured a few husbands & boyfriends as well. No affairs, no secrets, no games.

And IME, having a wife & a girlfriend got me MORE attention. At one point, & without really trying (I had fulltime college AND a job, after all), I had more steady lovers than any of my lovers did.

Desperation is NOT attractive... but calm confidence IS. :)
 
Calm (very, VERY calm) confidence describes my personal interactions just about perfectly, so I'm set.

After stewing on this whole thing for a while, I think I've come to the conclusion that patience is the key thing. A and I are different; of course our approach to dating and meeting people is going to be different. Once I start actually, physically meeting people, I think this asymmetry thing will either become a non-issue or fade away on its own. We just started this whole poly experiment in such a rush, it was easy to get swept up in the flurry and worry about never "catching up". But there's really no such thing.

But thank you, everyone, for hearing me out and offering your incredibly helpful, insightful opinions on this. I have a therapist, and she's great, but it also helps to get other insights from everyday people who have been in similar situations.
 
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