My situation that I struggle with

Roose

New member
I posted this in the introductions, but was advised I might get more comments in this forum.


I'm a male in my late 30s. My wife and I have been together since out mid teens. We have been married for 11 years this October. After the birth of our second child our sex life became rather stagnant. Of course there was less sex while he was super young, but we never seemed to recapture the mood. She says she's lost her spark for me.

About 5 years ago, during a drunken night with friends we fooled around with another couple. Nothing too adult, just a lot of kissing and groping. It was exciting for us both as we had only been with each other. That night after falling asleep, my wife and the other male involved hooked up, and maintained a 5 year relationship in secret. 3 Years ago, they broke up (for one year), and my wife used a co worker to try to forget him for another year relationship. When this relationship fell apart after 1 year she went back to her original love, my good friend. About 2 years ago she joined AshleyMadision and currently has at least 5 or 6 partners from that site.
During this 5 year period, I would estimate she and I have had sex a total of about 10 times. None in 2016. I had attributed to a low libido on her part, and felt her frustration with me suggesting sex too often. So I just pleasured myself on our own. The rest of our marriage was very happy. We don't fight, she is my best friend.

She doesn't know that I know any of this. I still need to have the talk. I am afraid of where it will go. Clearly, she needs variety that I can't offer. I know she will not stop cheating just because I confront her. I am wondering if there is any salvaging this through a poly relationship. Do they work if they are one sided? Sadly, I don't have a ton of desire to have other lovers. But I feel I could be happy if she were intimate with me again, even if she had lovers on the side.

I have no idea what to do. I'm very sad. In therapy, and now medicated...



I want to make it clear that while I am hurt, and somewhat angry, I am not looking to end our relationship. Nor do I put all the blame on her. I want her to be happy, and to be happy with me specifically.

I don't know what to do, I need advice.
 
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Marriage counseling should be first and foremost.

Polyamory is like throwing water on a grease fire to a broken marriage. Poly will not in anyway shape or form fix your relationship.
 
Every single poly relationship I have heard of, both online and from personal friends, that began with cheating and lies has ended terribly.

Polyamory is not a fix for marital issues, particularly if one party enters into it unwillingly or is coerced into it for fear of losing the existing relationship.

I'm with Dagferi: you need to tell your wife that you know about her affairs, and you two should seek professional help if you want to try to salvage your relationship. Polyamory doesn't need to be off the table, but it definitely shouldn't be used as superglue for your marriage, and it's not possible (or ethical, IMO) to enter into it without open, honest communication.
 
I want to try to say something positive, because I don't think your situation is completely untenable. Although she has been cheating and lying, you sound like you could actually be happy in a poly situation. Don't be phased by the fact that you don't have desire for others: many couples work quite successfully with one half being more open than the other, and also you might find that your perspective changes over time if you happen to meet someone you want to get to know better. The key thing is to bring all of this out into the open, and that might include confessions about how you 'discovered' her dating profile and who she has contacted. Try not to fall into the blame game. You sound sad that this has happened, but not angry, and that's a good place to come to the table to start the discussion from.

There are legitimate problems that you and she need to be able to work through though. Currently, YOUR sexual needs are not being met, and she also needs to understand that from now on she needs to be honest about her other relationships. But I do see some hope here. One thing that I noticed when my partner and I opened our relationship was that by virtue of being able to talk about our 'taboo' fantasies (i.e. sex with other people) with each other, we got a lot closer both emotionally and sexually as a couple. Being free to express our wanton desires to one another really did reignite a fire in the bedroom, so to speak. I think if this can all be talked about calmly, then you guys could make some real progress here and begin to heal some of the betrayal. Hopefully she will be able to see you in a new light, and being able to be open about her crushes and attraction will bring you closer together as a couple too. Often when we are stuck in a cycle of deceit with a loved one, we shut down on lots of emotional levels so as to avoid giving ourselves away. If that veil of secrecy is lifted, there might be a chance to reconnect in a new and deeper way.

tl/dr: If you are right and your wife's libido requires variety, then this could work for both of you. If she's addicted to the clandestine aspects however, then that's more of an issue. Talk to her gently, and see how she responds. Hopefully she will feel relief that you now know, and then you guys can start working out how to go about this in a way that looks after both of your wants and boundaries.
 
Hi Roose,

I tend to agree with tenK, it is okay to be hopeful and just talk with her. You'll need to start by telling her that you know about her affairs, and I don't know how that part will go. If she gets angry, you might want to put the conversation on hold and give her some time to calm down. And if she doesn't calm down, maybe that's the time to start thinking about breaking up. But the truth needs to come out.

Polyamory is conceivable for you, even if it's just on her side. Just that that would be the next conversation, or the next part of the first conversation if it's going well. I think that your wife will probably agree to that part, but the question is, can you trust her to be honest with you in the future?

Keep us posted on the forum; as more information trickles in, we'll be able to give more advice.

Sincerely,
Kevin T.
 
I am sorry you struggle.

The rest of our marriage was very happy. We don't fight, she is my best friend.

You don't sound happy with the cheating part of it. So have the talk. She either stops cheating and/or you disband some agreements so there aren't any agreements to cheat on.

You can then focus on being actual friends.

Because cheating to me doesn't sound like friendly behavior toward you. You seem to be in a deep depression over the lack of sex and the lack of communication/honesty in this marriage. Yet in not speaking up, you yourself are contributing to that lack of communication/honesty. :(

Clearly, she needs variety that I can't offer.

Could talk about that. Could she meet her need for variety though honest polyamory? Or some other honest Open model? If so, then maybe you guys could try a different relationship model. Perhaps in time you also date. Or not. It's ok for it to be Open only on her side if that is something you both agree to, and you have the ability to Open your side later if you want to.

But if the problem is that she gets off on the cheating-ness? Then changing models may not help any since she may keep cheating on her Open/poly agreements also. It isn't like Open/poly is "cheat-proof. "

None of that address this other problem:

But I feel I could be happy if she were intimate with me again, even if she had lovers on the side.

You sound lonely. You still want to be her lover. It seems she no longer wants to be your lover. Going poly or Opening the marriage won't solve either of that. You cannot force her to be your lover.

Could talk that out and lay it plain on the table: Does she still want to be your lover? Or is she no longer interested? Rather than it being unspoken but "slowly dying the vine."

I strongly suggest you see a counselor and get your thoughts in order. Then have some open honest conversation about what you each want.

You cannot stay like this forever. You seem pretty unhappy. Sort it out. Figure out the toggles switches. One at a time.

You two are...

  • Married. Yes/no
  • Communicating open and honestly? Yes/no
  • Lovers. Yes/no
  • Dating partners. Yes/no
  • Open? yes / no
    • If yes Open, which model(s) do you practice together? (ex: swinging, FWB, poly, something else, mix and match, etc)
  • Free of cheating? Yes/no
  • Friends. Yes/no


Because right now, from your post it sounds like this to me.

  • Married. Yes
  • Communicating open and honestly? no
  • Lovers. no
  • Dating partners. no
  • Open? no.
  • Free of cheating? no
  • Friends. No. (Cheating is not friendly or respectful.)

:(


I want to make it clear that while I am hurt, and somewhat angry, I am not looking to end our relationship. Nor do I put all the blame on her. I want her to be happy, and to be happy with me specifically. I don't know what to do, I need advice.

I see 3 wants.

  • I want us to stay together.
  • I want her to be happy.
  • I want her to be happy with me specifically.

You could ask her if she is willing to go to marriage counseling with you to work on changing those red toggles to green. With a shared goal of being together better than you are together right now. Even if it means changing from a (Closed marriage) model to a different model. But whatever model -- no more cheating.

If she is NOT willing to work on changing those toggles to green? Or talk about stopping the cheating? You may have to accept that you won't get 3 out of 3. Maybe only 2 out of 3.

  • I want us to stay together.
  • I want her to be happy.
  • I want her to be happy with me specifically.

And you accept that she might be happy divorced from you.

And happy with you specifically because you participated in a smooth, peaceful, respectful divorce. Which helps in you two becoming (good exes and friends) instead of remaining (cheating /cheated on spouses.)

I'm sorry I cannot think of anything else. :(


Galagirl
 
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Thank you for your comments and honesty, even though some of it hurts.
I'm in a bad place, and very sad. I opened communication with my wife on the weekend and for two nights we talked about our lack of intimacy and what we could work on to change that. Unfortunately, those same nights she still sexts care free with her lovers.


During our chats, I asked her if she wanted to leave me, she said now. I also asked if she would want to leave once the kids are grown, and she said no again.
But still...I'm so scared. I can't imagine life without her.

Actually, as honest as you were, Im more devastated than before, and breaking down.
I need to wait until friday to confront her (I have one more therapist appointment Thursday, and i need to go through that first).
 
I'm so sorry. I wish I had some wisdom to offer.
I'm hoping for a positive outcome for you.
 
I am sorry you are hurting. :(

I am glad you were able to see that I meant those words kindly even if they were hard to hear.

Perhaps this brings you some comfort --

“For a seed to achieve its greatest expression, it must come completely undone. The shell cracks, its insides come out and everything changes. To someone who doesn't understand growth, it would look like complete destruction.”

― Cynthia Occelli

I think you sound like you are depressed and shriveling up in your present marriage situation. I don't think this is what you signed up for when you got married.

So if the marriage has to come completely undone in order for you both to move forward together in a new model that DOES work better? Open, poly or whatever?

Or if the marriage has to come undone for both to become more honest with each other and become more willing to move forward as separate individuals so both can be more healthy and stop the shriveling?

Then I think it's probably a good thing that things come a bit undone. Cry, clear the air, lay it all on the table. Express what needs expressing. Even fear of the future. You cannot imagine what that is like so it is scary. But staying like this is killing you --- so cannot stay like this either. One should not have to medicate just to endure their marriage.

Lean on your therapist as you face this new change. That is what they are there for -- to give you support in a hard time and help you find your bearings.

I don't think you want to be stagnant like this forever. Some things have to end so new things can begin. So be willing to change and end the "not saying anything" and go ahead and speak all your truths bravely if even at a whisper.

I'm not sure what she gets out of the present marriage situation. But if you are getting nothing out of it? That's a one way street draining you dry and affecting your health. Sooner or later you need to say STOP. Living under duress is making you literally ILL. :(

I hope your therapist appointment goes well on Thursday and then you lay your cards on the table PLAIN with wife.

Get your stuff sorted so you can begin to heal rather than continue to shrivel up.

The healing place is a better place in which to linger. Certainly better than this no man's land you have been enduring. :(

I wish you well.

Galagirl
 
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I'm just going to say this, and you can take it for what it's worth.

Cheating is deceit. Cheating is lying. It honestly doesn't matter what the lie is about, she is choosing to be dishonest with you. You may be perfectly alright with her sleeping with others, but you know she's not being truthful. So how will you be able to trust anything else she tells you?

Sex aside, a marriage is a partnership where each person needs to feel safe & have trust in their partner(s).
 
The wife and I have spoken a bit. Still not about her affairs, but we have more open communication. We have bonded more, though not been intimate. Its hard, because I know that despite this struggle, she still has plans for an affair meet up Thursday night. My plan was to talk to her Friday, but we have a date night planned, so maybe I'll see where that goes. The weekend looks kinda full in general.

@CTF I get that cheating is deceit, but I do understand why she needed the variety after 20 years with only one person (one sexual partner for her whole life). It hurts, but I understand it. And not everyone is strong enough to present that to their husband first, so she cheats. I've read her texts (deceitful) and she justifies it as saving the marriage. I've read her more recent texts where she discusses our recent conversations about intimacy. She seems more conflicted. The problem is unless I can make her find me desirable, none of this will mean anything.
 
Glad you have started to talk and have a date night coming up.

I hope you continue the talk and get the cheating out in the open.

I don't think her cheating is saving the marriage any. You are depressed and sad about the state of the marriage. If she has to cheat to endure it, and you have to medicate to endure it... you guys could sort all this out. This is not a situation that can go on indefinitely without damages being incurred.

I think you will feel better once it is out in the open and the cheating stops. You change to an Open model of some sort or you both disband and are friends instead of spouses.

Galagirl
 
I guess I am torn on whether I should postpone the cheating talk until we have a chance to be intimate. To see if she can find anything desirable in me. Or bring it up first, which I fear will eliminate any chance of that.
I don't want to separate from her. I don't want a life without her. When I focus on this at night, my thoughts turn very dark and I consider I would not go on living if it comes to that..
 
I get that. You are lonely and you hope to share sex with your wife since it's been so long. But whether you try to share sex first or not, do talk about the cheating and don't keep avoiding it. You are miserable.

Maybe not this week, but set a firm date in your mind and tell her you want to make an appointment for a serious talk. If you want your therapist is present to help you stay on track in the conversation, you could arrange than and ask your wife to come to an appointment with you.

I don't want to separate from her. I don't want a life without her. When I focus on this at night, my thoughts turn very dark and I consider I would not go on living if it comes to that..

If you are suicidal, please call your therapist and/or a suicide hotline.

I am concerned you are not well and staying in this situation is only making it worse. :(

Galagirl
 
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I guess I am torn on whether I should postpone the cheating talk until we have a chance to be intimate. To see if she can find anything desirable in me. Or bring it up first, which I fear will eliminate any chance of that.
Some people have an easier time to do this, but I can't imagine doing any real intimacy if I had such a big thing to discuss.
Yes, having the talk might ruin your chances of that for a few weeks at least, and that might be healthy.
But the talk will change your relationship anyway. Whether you manage to get sex before it or not, only after the storm starts to settle down, you will see if there is any atraction to be worked on.

I also have a slightly - ok, more then slightly - uneasy feeling that you keep following her conversations to such a great detail. I get that it is comforting to "stay informed", know what she doesn't tell you but tells others... but it is still an invasion of privacy. You already know she is cheating (I don't know when you found out), maybe that could be enough. Finding out is one thing, following every word is another - and although she has done "more wrong", she will likely be mad about that. Also, I don't believe that knowing all the detail is really making you feel better - you just worry about her Thursday date. Ultimately you want to get to a place where you communicate honestly again, and she can tell you herself that she is conflicted. Ultimatelly, if you rebuild, you will have to stop checking her mail (however your doing it now), and trust her. You could stop now, or after you have the conversation, and give her a chance to communicate with you directly again.

I hope variety is really her main problem. I wish you luck.
 
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@GalaGirl I had set a firm date for Friday. I abandoned all hope for being intimate first because I was a wreck. The medication helps some, but I'm still a rollercoaster of good days and really bad days. But she made some pretty nice plans for us Friday, and I don't want to ruin that. Then we have a pretty full Saturday of family plans with another close couple. Sunday is an option....
Also, I don't think I qualify as suicidal. Even if this all goes in the worst possible way, I still have kids to live for. Its just never in my life have I even thought about suicide. And now it drifts into my mind just about every night when I am at my worst.


@Tinwen You're right, I don't think I can really go through with the intimacy with this on my shoulders. Chances are I would have a break down, which would be worse than not attempting at all.
My reading of her texts is not good either, but I justify it that it has only really happened three times. Once, when I first confirmed it (Wednesday the 14th of Sept.) I was suspicious of her sexting and was blown away by what I saw. It was too much to take in, just that she had lots, and lots of partners and was on AM. And was meeting up at least once a week (her work sends her out of town enough, or she has a 'girls night's etc). The following day, I had to look again to get a better sense of what is going on. I did just that, but also found out when it all started. With one my my best friends, 5 years ago. So I read a lot of the messages between them, which was probably not for the best, but I needed to know.

Then I swore it off, saying I would not look anymore. And I did not, until the weekend after our chats about intimacy. I wanted to see if it would affect her plans at all. She did talk about it with her lovers, but it did not have as much of an affect as I would have liked.
I am done reading her messages. I know what she is doing.
 
Why in the name of God's little green apples would you want to be intimate with her? What if she is not protecting her, and in a way your, sexual health? She could bring you something really nasty from her cheating.

Have a grown up straightforward conversation about EVERYTHING. Stop searching for scraps and stand up for yourself.
 
It seems as if you are internalizing the blame, and finding yourself deficient in some way for your wife. You have not done anything wrong. While you may not choose to "blame" her or be angry, don't beat YOURSELF up. It is not YOUR fault that SHE cheated and lied. It's like the old thinking that if a husband had an affair, it was the wife's fault for not keeping him satisfied enough not to stray. Don't do that to yourself.

YOU have worth, and you deserve an open, honest relationship.
 
Why in the name of God's little green apples would you want to be intimate with her? What if she is not protecting her, and in a way your, sexual health? She could bring you something really nasty from her cheating.

Have a grown up straightforward conversation about EVERYTHING. Stop searching for scraps and stand up for yourself.

I do know that she's been safe. And that she was cleanly tested by our family Dr.
 
It seems as if you are internalizing the blame, and finding yourself deficient in some way for your wife. You have not done anything wrong. While you may not choose to "blame" her or be angry, don't beat YOURSELF up. It is not YOUR fault that SHE cheated and lied. It's like the old thinking that if a husband had an affair, it was the wife's fault for not keeping him satisfied enough not to stray. Don't do that to yourself.

YOU have worth, and you deserve an open, honest relationship.

I let her feel undesired for years. Sex became a struggle. I was certain my dead bedroom situation stemmed from the fact that I had a low libido partner. I was wrong.
 
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