More in love with secondary right now

I am going to be quite frank. This is better ended now than dragging it out. In my opinion if this relationship cannot function like a well oiled machine where EVERYONE is being respected ( wife's wishes included) then it should not be done at all. This is essentially cheating, be it trouble from his wive's duress or not, this is not poly in my opinion. Poly is about all partners concerned being respected, happy, cared for and included in my opinion. Regardless of how 'in love' you are, this in the end is not going to flow, it's going to crash and sink. and what about your DH? do not undervalue a loving steady relationship, I myself have issues sometimes between my partners being better matched and well suited and I can see where insecurities and big flares can happen if they are not communicated, but that is my own SELF work and I would never dream of mistreating either of them with my inner troubles or telling them ' go find someone to screw, but don't tell me because reasons!' or as a relationship fix all tape. I can also see how painful it would be if he ever learned how he was perceived, I do hope this changes and you can see him for the man you fell in love with and care deeply for, in the end this matters most when we have nothing left. The wife is not being honest with herself and they very well may have agreed to open their 'relationship' as a save all option. Forgive me if I sound rude, but being blunt and honest is far better than sugar coating and beating around the bush.
 
we feel like we need to be together more than she's allowing

The long term answer will never be found in shaking your fist at "her" demands or by asking "him" to have more of a backbone than he has or by vowing to "bring no frozen or refrigerated foods into this house," as TruckerPete's article so astutely discusses. The long term answer lies only in your asking yourself why you're so incredibly attracted to this situation and what you are going to do about it to make your life a good place to be. You are the conductor in this orchestra.
 
The trouble is she started seeing how close we were and even though she was close with my husband as well it wasnt enough for her. She wanted exactly what him and I had. If he sent me 5 text messages he had to send her 10. If he called me once he had to call her 5 times. If he liked something of mine on facebook he had to post love quotes to her. Her and my husband have really high sex drives and neither of us though we did, that is until we met each other. We had to lie to our spouses about how many times we had sex because they would have freaked out if they knew. Due to her controlling and jealousy issues she called off our foursome and we are no longer allowed to be together, which is heartbreaking to me. We are not supposed to have any contact whatsoever but he calls me at work everyday still. I know it is wrong to lie but we do genuinely love each other and we dont want to be apart. I cant see a life without him and he feels the same way about me. Neither of us want to break up families and we have not met up in secret (but I cant say that eventually we wont). I think this is a downside to poly relationships. If you enter into them when your own relationships are not in a good place and you end up falling in love with someone else and the sex is amazing it really messes with your head. I am no longer sexually attracted to my husband however he still has a very high sex drive (something she used to be able to take some of the stress off of my shoulders). Now I am not seeing him and having sex with my husband even on times when I dont want to. I miss him very much and I dont know where to go from here. You are not alone.

For starters does anyone know what happened to LUvxx. How her story ended ?

SoConfused : you say she ( other wife) saw what you and her husband had and she wanted that too....are you saying she wanted that with your husband or with her husband ???

Do you know if they ( other couple ) had rules about how far relationships could go. It sounds like expectations were x and y was happening and maybe she was being fed words when what she was seeing and feeling told her the opposite. IMO that's going to feed the controlling and jealousy issues.

Sounds to me like both spouses needed to hear the truth as painful as it may have been. Everyone talks about honesty being cornerstone of poly except when it comes to this stuff....everyone lies. The big lie is sex is just different.

Not everyone no matter how crazy their " drive " is is going to be first string.

Also I think telling him the truth might take some of it off your shoulders.....it might dampen his desire a little.

I'd suggest you have both the other wife and your husband read these posts ....that should start the conversation.

To me this looks like a lot of settling and cobbling ...for all those concerned not just you and your BF. If I was your husband and learned the truth I doubt I'd beating down a door to have sex with you...he might feel he's being pathetic/ settling too at that point. And omg the other wife sounds like a bag of insecure fun .
 
Hi dingedheat:

When I said she ( other wife) saw what you and her husband had and she wanted that too....I was saying she wanted that with my husband as well as with her husband. She wanted it with both of them. Their marriage has been struggling for years, they both have admitted it to my husband and myself and they both have to pretend to be someone they are not in order for their marriage to survive.

In the beginning we had rules....Feeling were not supposed to be involved however I knew the second I met my other guy that I was in big trouble. I pretty much fell for him the second I met him however I never said anything about it to anyone. I knew my husband and his wife had a very strong connection as well and I asked my husband a few weeks into our exclusive relationship to tell me if the L word was ever mentioned by her or if he started to feel it. I could see it in both of them. Turns out they had said it to each other, her first. I was a little thrown off by it but didnt make a big deal of it because I knew I felt the same way about her husband but had not admitted it. After we all admitted to loving each other the rules about how far the relationship could go was up in the air. We (her and my husband and her husband and I exchanged rings). I'm not sure what you mean by "It sounds like expectations were x and y was happening and maybe she was being fed words when what she was seeing and feeling told her the opposite." The control and jealously issues started about 6 months in. I am more of a shy personality and she was very outgoing. There were things I had to accept and be ok with when I wasnt. Things like me sitting on the couch by myself while my husband and her went and took a shower together and then had sex while I was by myself on the couch (her husband had gone out to run an errand). I dealt with it and accepted that I had to be ok with things like that, however if her husband and I ever dared to leave one of them alone (my husband or her) for us to go off alone and have sex it would cause a fight. But him and I dealt with it. We accepted that in the foursome there were things they had to be allowed to do even if we couldnt. We didnt want any fights and we didnt want our foursome to end so we dealt with it.

You would think both spouses hearing the truth would have been a good idea however the foursome would not have lasted almost 2 and a half years if that had of happened. Had I admitted that I enjoyed sex with my opposite more it would not have gone over very well and had he even hinted to his wife then she would have lost her s**t. Yes I have heard everyone talking about the cornerstone of poly is honesty and props to anyone who can have a long term relationship with full honesty. In our case it was not possible.

"Also I think telling him the truth might take some of it off your shoulders.....it might dampen his desire a little." Telling who the truth, my husband? Telling him the truth about what?

Having both the other wife and my husband read these posts isnt possible. Her and I are no longer communicating with each other and my husband would be beyond pissed that I posted online about any of this. Hes a very smart man, I had admitted to the group at one point that I was more in love with my opposite than I was with my own husband. Before anyone judges me on that, there is a history between my husband and I that would be far too long to get into here but I disconnected from him emotionally for about a year.... when my Mom because ill and almost passed and I was expected to keep everything normal at home while dealing with it. When I admitted I was more in love with my opposite at the time she knew he was too and she said that she knew and as long as he didnt say it outloud then she would deal with it. I knew she was more in love with my husband than she was with her own....the only issue for her was my husband was not more in love with her than he was with me. And its not that I was more in love with her husband in every way than I was with mine. My husband is my best friend, he is the father to my babies and there are so many ways I was more in love with him than with my opposite however there were things like my opposite not expecting things from me.....sex, attention, affection, text messages, picture messages. Sure we had sex but it was not an expectation, it was something that happened naturally. Same with attention and affection. We (my opposite and I ) could sit and watch a movie and cuddle and be perfectly content with that however with me and my husband and him with his wife there was so much more expected. The stage had to be set...it has to be so romantic all of the time for them. Make out sessions were expected. I mean my God we have all been married for over 10 years and sometimes you just want to watch a movie and cuddle.

My husband actually knows how I feel about sex. Its usually the only thing we fight about to be honest. The first 14 years of our relationship I had no idea how high his sex drive was, we had sex 2-3 times per week and I thought that was good..I thought that was normal. Then we enter into a poly relationship where he is having sex with me 2-3 times per week, then having sex with her 10-15 times per week. When he stated getting it that much he discovered just how high his sex drive was (and so did she), it became an expectation in our marriages as well. And I am sorry to say and I dont know why they didnt get it but I work full time and I come home and I am a mom to two beautiful kids....having sex 10 times during the week isnt high on my priority list, but it was an expectation. Well maybe not 10-15 times expected but if he had his way we would have sex every night, several times per night and we would wake up and have sex first thing in the morning. I dont think my husband is pathetic or settling, at least I hope he never feels that way. The other wife appears to be the most confident fun loving person you could ever meet...and that is how she appeared when we first met....then the true self came out and insecure only begins to describe her. Her first marriage failed because she was beyond controlling and her ex couldnt take it any longer. My boyfriend to me is a saint to be able to deal with the amount of control she has over his life. She checks his personal and work phones on a daily basis. She checks his web history on his ipad (its linked to his phone). She checks his emails on a daily basis. He isnt even allowed to watch porn anymore unless its with her. He has no friends outside of their relationship - she made sure of that. Anyhoo that is my rant for today.
 
Hi SoConfused,

That is a frustrating situation you are in. I almost want to say the other husband should divorce his wife, but that might make things worse because if she disappeared, then you'd be stuck with a husband who wants much more sex than you do. In any case, that is a decision for the other husband to make, and my guess is that he won't make it. He'll avoid that decision. Just keep things the way they are. Possibly sneak around on his wife, which is its own set of problems. But, if she's so controlling, I can't blame him.

Sympathetically,
Kevin T.
 
Hi kdt26417,

Yes it is a very frustrating situation to be in. I think everyone should try and make their marriages work but to what extent? They had called it quits about a month ago and even put their house up for sale (which it has now sold) and they were almost done, then they told their kids (her two kids from her previous marriage but he loves them as if they were his own). One is 18 and the other is 16. The 18 year old no longer lives with them because of all of the drama in the house. They both cried and were heartbroken when they found out about them splitting up and they decided to stay together because of it. I dont want to be the other woman in any relationship and I dont want any families to break up but the though of losing this man out of my life is devastating. I cry so much now. The though of splitting up my family which I love is devastating. I dont know what to do. I just want things to go back to they way they were when our foursome was good and his wife wasnt so jealous. My daughter broke her heart crying a few nights ago and I asked what was wrong and she said she missed her (the other woman, they had an amazing bond as well). This is all just so sad. The other woman is now out of our lives so she isnt helping with the sex with my husband any longer. My guess is her husband wont make the decision either, he never does make any decisions for himself, I dont expect him to now. Her last marriage ended because of her controling ways and her husband ended up sneaking around. Funny thing is her first husband is now happily married to the woman he was sneaking around with and has been for years, so I guess that part of the story turned out good at least. I cant see him (my other man, yes I still refer to him as that) sneaking around on her. How would he? She watches his every move.
 
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Hi dingedheat:

When I said she ( other wife) saw what you and her husband had and she wanted that too....I was saying she wanted that with my husband as well as with her husband. She wanted it with both of them.

Do you think that was something they lost in their marriage or never really had ?
If so talk about unrealistic expectations. The latter comparison situation seems like a common source of problems. Would you describe your husband and other wife as type A people.


In the beginning we had rules....Feeling were not supposed to be involved however I knew the second I met my other guy that I was in big trouble. I pretty much fell for him the second I met him however I never said anything about it to anyone. I knew my husband and his wife had a very strong connection as well and I asked my husband a few weeks into our exclusive relationship to tell me if the L word was ever mentioned by her or if he started to feel it. I could see it in both of them..... We (her and my husband and her husband and I exchanged rings). I'm not sure what you mean by "It sounds like expectations were x and y was happening and maybe she was being fed words when what she was seeing and feeling told her the opposite."

What I was trying to say was maybe the same rules that you and your husband had along with less than honest answers by her husband as to the depth of his feelings might have fueled her insecurity. :D

How soon was this ring exchange and who's idea was it and was it a group discussion or did it come from one side which forced the other side ? Rings and ceremonies/ gestures all have subjective meaning. Was this all discussed individually as well as a group ?


There were things I had to accept and be ok with when I wasnt. Things like me sitting on the couch by myself while my husband and her went and took a shower together and then had sex while I was by myself on the couch (her husband had gone out to run an errand). I dealt with it and accepted that I had to be ok with things like that, however if her husband and I ever dared to leave one of them alone (my husband or her) for us to go off alone and have sex it would cause a fight. But him and I dealt with it. We accepted that in the foursome there were things they had to be allowed to do even if we couldnt. We didnt want any fights and we didnt want our foursome to end so we dealt with it.

2 sets of rules. I'd see that being a really short fight. Hypocrite or hypocrites. Was that always the implied or direct threat ....our rules or this ends figuring you had more to lose.

Were they both equally guilty of this ?


You would think both spouses hearing the truth would have been a good idea however the foursome would not have lasted almost 2 and a half years if that had of happened. Had I admitted that I enjoyed sex with my opposite more it would not have gone over very well and had he even hinted to his wife then she would have lost her s**t. Yes I have heard everyone talking about the cornerstone of poly is honesty and props to anyone who can have a long term relationship with full honesty. In our case it was not possible.

Im not sure hearing the truth would have been a good idea.....being able to handle the truth or open to the truth was more the point.

Had you admitted you enjoy sex more with your opposite. I'd assume that topic in that dynamic is avoided. Was it ever asked ....and did your opposite have to lie ? Did your husband volunteer how he rated his opposite ?


"Also I think telling him the truth might take some of it off your shoulders.....it might dampen his desire a little." Telling who the truth, my husband? Telling him the truth about what?

You said she and her sex drive help take some of pressure / burden off your shoulders. That coupled with the fact you prefer sex with your opposite and the loss of that makes sex all the more a hot topic issue.

I'm suggesting if you told him the truth now ....after the fact in general here's what's going on and why way. The loss of this other relationship has deeply effected me and sex is one of them.


Hes a very smart man, I had admitted to the group at one point that I was more in love with my opposite than I was with my own husband.

So you're saying everyone really knew/ knows in general about the being " in " love.


You mentioned your daughter in your last post where you all out to your kids/ families ? is your daughter the only one having a rough time with the break up.
 
Do you think that was something they lost in their marriage or never really had ? If so talk about unrealistic expectations. The latter comparison situation seems like a common source of problems. Would you describe your husband and other wife as type A people.

They never had it in their marriage. They both admitted it. We all said in the beginning that we give each other things that our own spouses were not able to and that is why it worked so well in the beginning. Then later jealously reared its ugly head and she started to resent me because of what her and her husband shared. She also seen that my relationship with my own husband was good and that is also something she wanted or should i say NEEDED as well. My husband and I rarely fought and we are really good with seeing each others side of things and compromising (other than with the sex topic). Her and her husband never had that, every and when she seen it in my husband and I she needed it as well. He always did his best to do as she needed, to change himself but he struggled. She wanted her husband to be more like my husband. She wanted her husband to do exactly the same for her as he was doing for me and then some. The difference my relationship had with her husband was I didnt have all of the high expectations of him, he wasnt required to text me ALL of the time during work, he wasnt expected to send me love quotes, he wasnt expected to go above and beyond for me. I loved him the way he was and just how he was. He didnt need to pretend to be someone he wasnt for me. If we were together on a weekend and we were tired and didnt want to have sex and would just rather cuddle and fall asleep in each others arms we were both good with that, but with her and my husband they seen it as an issue for them.


What I was trying to say was maybe the same rules that you and your husband had along with less than honest answers by her husband as to the depth of his feelings might have fueled her insecurity.

In the beginning we were all trying to not admit that we had fallen in love. It was new territory for all of us. Once she said it to my husband and he said it to her, my opposite and I were free to admit it as well. She actually set the time and place for it to happen so she could be there when it did.

How soon was this ring exchange and who's idea was it and was it a group discussion or did it come from one side which forced the other side ? Rings and ceremonies/ gestures all have subjective meaning. Was this all discussed individually as well as a group ?

The ring exchange was a discussion that she brought forward to me. She said she would love to have a ring from my husband. She had mentioned to my husband in private before our discussion that she would love to have a ring from him on her finger. Both men discussed it and purchased the rings. That discussion happened roughly 6-7 months in. We agreed to exchange them a few months after that. My husband gave hers to her first and later that night (in private) she gave him his. She arranged for her husband to give me mine in front of everyone a week later and I gave him his right after (in front of them).



2 sets of rules. I'd see that being a really short fight. Hypocrite or hypocrites. Was that always the implied or direct threat ....our rules or this ends figuring you had more to lose.

Were they both equally guilty of this ?

It was both of them that would threaten the foursome because they knew that was a way to "reign us in" and to get us to be ok with everything, and it worked. Even when we were not comfortable with certain things we would just go with it regardless. In the end of the relationship it wasnt my husband so much, it was her. My husband was scared that our marriage would end if he broke up the foursome to he backed away a bit, but at that point we were letting them do whatever it was to keep them happy.



Im not sure hearing the truth would have been a good idea.....being able to handle the truth or open to the truth was more the point.

Had you admitted you enjoy sex more with your opposite. I'd assume that topic in that dynamic is avoided. Was it ever asked ....and did your opposite have to lie ? Did your husband volunteer how he rated his opposite ?

No, I have never admitted to her or my husband that I enjoyed sex more with my opposite and he never did either. We both knew what the repercussion would be if we did. Sex has always been good with my husband but i have never in my life been so into someone that just by them looking at me had an effect on me, I had that with my opposite and so did he. Both my husband and her would comment on a regular basis about how good the sex was with each other, how often they had it....etc. My opposite and her would have sex once..twice at the max even when they first got together and the same with my husband and I. And it was almost like she would brag that my husband was able to keep going and going and going with her, I am not sure if it affected her own husband or not with her talking like that. In the beginning (the first year or so) when they were driving home she would go into detail about how the sex was with my husband, and then would ask him to give all of the details about ours. I was upset about it when I found out that she knew everything that happened behind closed doors, I was ok with her knowing to some extent but she wanted all of the details. My husband and I never spoke about our closed doors encounters with each other, it wasnt something we needed to know. Even with text messages. She would take her husbands phone every night and scroll through our text messages to see what we were saying to each other. And even with all of this lack of privacy and intimate moments that we could not have with each other our connection was still stronger.


Yes her sex drive definitely took a lot of the pressure off of me. But I still felt like I had a quota to meet each week in order to see my opposite on the weekend. He had the same quota to see me. Telling my husband the truth would not go well at all. He would expect the same from me as what i had with my opposite, and as much as I would love to be able to give him that I cannot. I have tried, I really really have tried really hard but I dont have the same connection and desire as I had with my opposite.


So you're saying everyone really knew/ knows in general about the being " in " love.

The four of us knew we were all in love with each other, my husband knows I was/am more in love with my opposite and she knows he is as well (and is ok as long as he never admits it to her or anyone).


No, we were not all out to our families. Our kids didnt know, they just loved the both of them like they were part of the family. My two best friends and my husbands best friend who dont live near us know about us, but no one else in my family or my husbands know. Her Dad had always known they were swingers, all of their friends are from the swinging community. She told her sister and her sisters boyfriend about all of us shortly after we all got together because she wanted to tell her about how amazing it was to be in love with two men. She was pretty open with her co workers as well. His son their oldest knew all along but we didnt know until we all ended. He came out and told them that he knew all along and was ok with it. He had caught his dad and I kissing once. Her oldest son found out when we were all on a trip at a cottage. A bunch of us from our families decided to go away for the weekend, which looking back was a major mistake when you are hiding this type of relationship. To be with someone you love an not being able to give them any attention. I had my husbands and her back to they could sneak off and have a quick kiss. Later that day she was supposed to have ours so we could as well. Turns out she didnt have our backs as much as we though because her middle son caught us kissing. He though we were cheating but was confused because she was in the cottage with us. Pure stupidity on our parts. That is when their oldest son told the middle son that we were all ok with it and no one was cheating. Needless to say it didnt go over so well and the weekend went to hell. We somehow managed to somewhat salvage some of our relationship, not letting her family know that we were still seeing each other and from there it all went down hill :-(

My daughter is stuffing with the loss of two people who were in her live for two and a half years, her and his wife were really close. She was kinda like a second mom to her and then all of a sudden that is gone. My son doesnt seem to be bothered by it, he is younger. I dont want the choices my husband and I made to affect her life choices, or my sons so we decided not to tell them about our foursome. Maybe one day when she is older I can explain it to her.....
 
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Something else I should say... my husband is probably the who ended up getting what he didnt deserve. He is an amazing man and I know I dont deserve him, i dont know what he see's in me. We have two amazing kids and a very good life together, he is my best friend but he ended up with a wife who is more in love with another man, a woman that is more sexually attracted to another man. Then the other woman in his life ended the foursome and he lost her as well. For a man that is a good as he is he ended up with the shit end of the stick :-( I am trying to find my way back to him but it wont be like it was before, and even if we can get back to where it was before it wont be what I had with the other man - and deep down I know it is always what I will miss. I am sure there are others out there like me, I cant be the only messed up person in this world, at least I hope I am not.
 
They never had it in their marriage. They both admitted it. She also seen that my relationship with my own husband was good and that is also something she wanted or should i say NEEDED as well.

Yeah not too nuts. Never had it in her marriage but after opening up its some how magically will appear. Did she ever flat out tell you this and why she thought it was realistic ???


In the beginning we were all trying to not admit that we had fallen in love. It was new territory for all of us. Once she said it to my husband and he said it to her, my opposite and I were free to admit it as well. She actually set the time and place for it to happen so she could be there when it did.

Have we very looked up the term narcissist ?

Nothing like letting such an expression happen organically.

Did you guys do an ok job exchanging I loves you's ??? Or did the queen demand a retake.






The ring exchange was a discussion that she brought forward to me. She said she would love to have a ring from my husband. She had mentioned to my husband in private before our discussion that she would love to have a ring from him on her finger. Both men discussed it and purchased the rings. That discussion happened roughly 6-7 months in. We agreed to exchange them a few months after that. My husband gave hers to her first and later that night (in private) she gave him his. She arranged for her husband to give me mine in front of everyone a week later and I gave him his right after (in front of them).
I'm beginning to see a pattern :D.

So by the timeline things had started going down hill because of her issues. Do you think she thought the rings where something to make her feel better about the situation / add that layer of formality onto the situation




No, I have never admitted to her or my husband that I enjoyed sex more with my opposite and he never did either. We both knew what the repercussion would be if we did.

...and he never did either is BF ?...or husband.


Both my husband and her would comment on a regular basis about how good the sex was with each other, how often they had it....etc. My opposite and her would have sex once..twice at the max even when they first got together and the same with my husband and I. And it was almost like she would brag that my husband was able to keep going and going and going with her, I am not sure if it affected her own husband or not with her talking like that. In the beginning (the first year or so) when they were driving home she would go into detail about how the sex was with my husband, and then would ask him to give all of the details about ours.

Do you think the comments and bragging was meant as a jabs back for not having that special " it " quality that you had ?

You said you didn't know how it affected your BF hearing what a great lover your husband was ('IMO it had to have some effect ...can't imagine it being a positive one either) . How did you take their comments.


Yes her sex drive definitely took a lot of the pressure off of me. But I still felt like I had a quota to meet each week in order to see my opposite on the weekend. He had the same quota to see me. Telling my husband the truth would not go well at all. He would expect the same from me as what i had with my opposite, and as much as I would love to be able to give him that I cannot. I have tried, I really really have tried really hard but I dont have the same connection and desire as I had with my opposite.

I had this very different picture in my head. This was my impression Your husband and the other wife, because of their high sex drives pushed the 2 of you into swinging or jumped at the chance if it was suggested by one of you. Quota seems backwards in that scenario because this is something they both really really want.

He would expect the same?? I'm not sure I understand. We're talking about the intangible chemistry of sexual attraction and connection. If you didn't have that for your entire marriage how and you now have it with someone else how he assume it could be transferred ??? Or are you talking about new practices ....length of sessions ...positions, etc etc ??


The four of us knew we were all in love with each other, my husband knows I was/am more in love with my opposite and she knows he is as well (and is ok as long as he never admits it to her or anyone).

You mean was ok with for a while. Then became not so ok with it.



No, we were not all out to our families. Our kids didnt know, they just loved the both of them like they were part of the family.

How old are Your kids ? And what did you tell your daughter was the reason they're not around anymore ??.

And getting busted on the camping trip was the trigger to the death blow to the quad ??
 
I wish you'd choose nicknames for all the players here.

You're in love with a man who is married to a very very controlling wife. I don't know how you stood it so long, the lack of privacy! Demanding you and her husband exchange I love yous and rings in front of her! Going through all your ("private messages") texts and emails! Demanding graphic sexual details! And your bf goes along with all of this.

Excuse me, but I'd have a hard time respecting, and therefore loving, a man who kowtowed to his wife in such a way. It's disrespectful of you. You may be new to poly and quads, and think things are "supposed" to be this way. Let me tell you, they aren't. Poly people draw boundaries about privacy.

Also, your husband demanding you give him an exactly equal amount of sex compared to what you give your bf, is unrealistic.

There is a lot of unmanaged jealousy here.

Also, look up NRE. It's very common to want very frequent sex in the first year or so of a relationship (NRE lasts 3 months to 3 years), and then to have things cool down some. Hormones get really stirred up by new relationship energy/infatuation. I know, you may have never had the same sexual chemistry for your h as you do for your bf. Perhaps you've changed. Or it's just the guy. But for your h to demand you give him X amount of sex sessions to make things fair and balanced is silly.

Most experienced polys understand their partner will have NRE and frequent sex with a new person. It's just how our bodies work. And sometimes the NRE will spill over to our established partner, like it did with your husband, who suddenly wanted 10 sex sessions a week from you (and 10 from her?) when he used to be content with 2 or 3.

I know you've ended this relationship. It's sad you fell in love with a man who was so whipped by his wife. And your husband fell for this controlling woman! Dingedheart mentioned narcissism. Narcs can be so very charming at first, charismatic, giving, "loving." But once they start to get bored, watch out. They start treating the formerly idealised lovers like shit. They "triangulate," playing one against the other.

Try reading at the website Psychopath Free, for more insight.

I hope you've learned from this messed up situation and can apply new insight should you continue to pursue polyamory. Best wishes.
 
First off let me say sorry for not knowing how to use the quote feature haha.

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Yeah not too nuts. Never had it in her marriage but after opening up its some how magically will appear. Did she ever flat out tell you this and why she thought it was realistic ???

Yes she thought it would magically appear. I mean in her eyes she seen that he had it in him to treat me a certain way so he should have been able to do the same for her. And maybe he should have been able to but I dont believe in forcing things. I mean anyone can pretend but if its not naturally there then eventually you falter and the true person you are with someone will come out, which is what was happening. She told all of us on a regular basis that its what she expected and needed.


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Have we very looked up the term narcissist ?

Yes narcissist would describe her perfectly.

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Nothing like letting such an expression happen organically.

Nothing was ever able to happen naturally with him and I unless it was behind closed doors. We used to do this thing, we had a look. No matter where we were we would look across a room and find each other and kinda get lost in each others eyes. You could actually feel the love and strength of the connection from the look. That became an issue and we were both told we could no longer do that anymore, so we stopped :-(

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Did you guys do an ok job exchanging I loves you's ??? Or did the queen demand a retake.
We did do an ok job exchanging the i love you's, it was awkward doing it in from of them but when we were alone it was much better. We did a retake on our own - in private.




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I'm beginning to see a pattern .

So by the timeline things had started going down hill because of her issues. Do you think she thought the rings where something to make her feel better about the situation / add that layer of formality onto the situation

Yes, things did start going down hill because of her issues. I dont know what she was thinking in regards to the exchange of the rings. I think maybe she thought it would magically make her connection with my husband stronger.


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...and he never did either is BF ?...or husband.

BF, never did admit it to her. If he had of the foursome would have ended then and there.


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Do you think the comments and bragging was meant as a jabs back for not having that special " it " quality that you had ?

I think in the long run yes it was a jab back at my BF for not having the special " it " quality, but what she didnt know was the sex between my BF and me was just as good, I will dare to say better than what she and my husband had.

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You said you didn't know how it affected your BF hearing what a great lover your husband was ('IMO it had to have some effect ...can't imagine it being a positive one either) . How did you take their comments.

When I found out they were discussing this I was upset. Nothing was private. I am no a put it all out there type of person, I never have been and I never will be however it was who I was expected to be. My husband and I never discussed their sex lives (hers and his), it was from when she spoke about it quite openly. My husband and I both knew it was not a good thing to do and knew it would affect our own sex lives so we didnt talk about it. Its the same reason we didnt read each others text messages.


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I had this very different picture in my head. This was my impression Your husband and the other wife, because of their high sex drives pushed the 2 of you into swinging or jumped at the chance if it was suggested by one of you. Quota seems backwards in that scenario because this is something they both really really want.

Yes, swinging was not my idea, it is something I went along with because I felt my husband needed it. At first it was exciting, going to swing clubs and the atmosphere itself. It was also her idea in their relationship. Once we did get into a quad relationship with them everything changed. Not in the beginning of course, everything was peachy in the beginning. But once it was seen that we had connected on a different level things went downhill. Had our own spouses known about the sex it would have went downhill a lot faster.


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He would expect the same?? I'm not sure I understand. We're talking about the intangible chemistry of sexual attraction and connection. If you didn't have that for your entire marriage how and you now have it with someone else how he assume it could be transferred ??? Or are you talking about new practices ....length of sessions ...positions, etc etc ??

Yes my husband would expect the same and so would she. The Intangible chemistry of sexual attraction and connection was never considered. It was more of a "if you have this in you for someone else then you can have it in you for me". Yes it was assumed it could be transferred. I was also speaking to practices....length of sessions...positions. If they knew we tried something new then we had to also do it with our own spouses. Example: Morning sex. Not something we ever did with our own spouses but did with each other. Once they found out we were having morning sex (they were in the next room and as hard as we tried to not make any noise so they wouldnt know, they heard us and expected the same thing from the both of us).


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You mean was ok with for a while. Then became not so ok with it.

No, it was never ok with her, even though she admitted she was more in love with my husband and then back tracked and said she never did say it (even though it was in front of all of us. When my husband didnt say the same thing back she back tracked).



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How old are Your kids ? And what did you tell your daughter was the reason they're not around anymore ??.

My kids are 10 and 6. I told my daughter that the other couple had issues in their marriage and they were focusing on each other. That they needed space so they could make them good again. I also told her that we all wanted to spend more time with our own families.

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And getting busted on the camping trip was the trigger to the death blow to the quad ??

Yes, getting busted on the camping trip was definitely the last blow and was the death blow to the quad. We did try to work on it after that. We decided to meet up again one last time to say goodbye, they spent the night and we were all so miserable when it came to them leaving the next day. We had ended it there but we were texting in a group and decided we needed each other in our lives. Decided to give each other space, focus on our families and only see each other once a month. We spend one last weekend together after that and it was a great weekend, although I could still feel the resentment she had towards me. After that we texted once per week and then one day she posted to our group that she was done and that she needed this to end. We got into an argument and she told me that if I didnt let him go then I was cheating. She went to his parents and family and told them everything (they hadnt known anything at that point about our relationship). She painted me out to be a homewrecker. Her sister even sent me a message saying I was. She said I should be ashamed of myself. It was a pretty nasty message and it hurt a lot :-(
 
I wish you'd choose nicknames for all the players here.

To make things easier I will call my husband Bill. I will call her Jane and I will call my boyfriend John.

Yes I am in love with a man who is married to a very very VERY controlling wife. I dont know how I stood it for so long, the lack of privacy was beyond anything I was used to. Yes. John went along with all of it. To keep her happy, he has been doing this for years for her. He will always be doing that to keep her happy. Which is sad.


Excuse me, but I'd have a hard time respecting, and therefore loving, a man who kowtowed to his wife in such a way. It's disrespectful of you. You may be new to poly and quads, and think things are "supposed" to be this way. Let me tell you, they aren't. Poly people draw boundaries about privacy.

It was very disrespectful and I tried very hard to respect jane and her wishes. Did a lot of things that I was not comfortable with. I was very new to poly and quads, we all were new to that however they had years of swinging experience under their belt and were used to things that we werent. We were newbies when we met them. Had been with one other couple twice and one other experience that was horrible. When Bill found Jane and John online I wasnt even interested in meeting them because our last swinging experience had left such a bad taste in my mouth but bill and jane had a connection over messages so I said I would give it one more go and then the second I met John I knew I wanted to be with him. I knew I wanted it to work. It was an instant connection. Being so new to this lifestyle I didnt know any different and thought things were supposed to be that way. Jane was the primary and I felt like she wanted me to be nothing more than a bedroom f**k for John.

Also, your husband demanding you give him an exactly equal amount of sex compared to what you give your bf, is unrealistic.

Believe it or not my husband is not as demanding as jane is with john, her expectations are much higher of john. But because Jane and Bill would have indept conversations about our marriages Bills expectations of me did become higher.

There is a lot of unmanaged jealousy here.

Yes, I agree and there is nothing anyone could do about it. Her first husband had enough and he left her for another woman. John is probably in for life, I dont know who he will manage but maybe he is so used to it he doesnt even realize it?

Also, look up NRE. It's very common to want very frequent sex in the first year or so of a relationship (NRE lasts 3 months to 3 years), and then to have things cool down some. Hormones get really stirred up by new relationship energy/infatuation. I know, you may have never had the same sexual chemistry for your h as you do for your bf. Perhaps you've changed. Or it's just the guy. But for your h to demand you give him X amount of sex sessions to make things fair and balanced is silly.

Actually in the beginning as much as john and I knew we had a connection like we never had before we didnt have NRE. That took months. We were both very hesitant on giving in but when we did it was intense. Nothing ever did cool down between us however with Jane and Bill it did, and that is when jealousy reared its ugly head. I have never had the same sexual chemistry for any other man as I had for John.

Most experienced polys understand their partner will have NRE and frequent sex with a new person. It's just how our bodies work. And sometimes the NRE will spill over to our established partner, like it did with your husband, who suddenly wanted 10 sex sessions a week from you (and 10 from her?) when he used to be content with 2 or 3.

I dont even know if Bill would know what NRE stands for lol. I only found out what it was when I started googling. We knew everything was so intense as it was in the beginning because it was new and thats when everything was running smoothly. John and I knew life happens and the newness wears off and we grew with that. I didnt expect the same about of text messages later in the relationship when the NRE started to wear off whereas Jane did. She needed the NRE with John and with Bill. When she wasnt getting it it got messy.

I know you've ended this relationship. It's sad you fell in love with a man who was so whipped by his wife. And your husband fell for this controlling woman! Dingedheart mentioned narcissism. Narcs can be so very charming at first, charismatic, giving, "loving." But once they start to get bored, watch out. They start treating the formerly idealised lovers like shit. They "triangulate," playing one against the other.


Yes the relationship has ended. I had a voicemail on my work phone this morning from John saying he couldnt do this anymore. They had broken up and put their house up for sale. They sat their boys (teenagers) down to tell them and they were both so upset they decided to give their marriage another go of it. We were still talking on the phone up until now, and I know its wrong to do that and yes I understand it is considered cheating but two people (Bill and Jane) were happen enough to walk away from each other and we were not. Turns out so is John now. Had I known up front that he was so whipped by Jane I would have not let it go as far as it had gone. Yes Bill fell for her too however he started to see her true colors about a year in and that is when he started to back away from her slightly which didnt make her happy. Your statement "Narcs can be so very charming at first, charismatic, giving, "loving." But once they start to get bored, watch out. They start treating the formerly idealised lovers like shit. They "triangulate," playing one against the other." fits Jane to a tee. She was so sweet and loving and charming, giving, loving at first and then she started to resent me big time. The harder I tried the more she seemed to resent me. We were all pitted against each other on numerous occasions. She tried to cause tension and fights between Bill and I whenever we planned an alone night together.


Try reading at the website Psychopath Free, for more insight.

I will check out this site right after I post this message, thanks.

I hope you've learned from this messed up situation and can apply new insight should you continue to pursue polyamory. Best wishes.

I have learned from this messed up situation. I have learned that I will never EVER go down this path again. Too much drama, too much tension, too much hate, too much heartbreak.
 
I have learned from this messed up situation. I have learned that I will never EVER go down this path again. Too much drama, too much tension, too much hate, too much heartbreak.

I hope you got some validation and healing, reading on Psychopath Free. I also was in a relationship with a narc. for 2 1/2 years. Not a quad situation, but there were many similarities, including saying something and later denying he said it, until confronted with my sharp memory of the event and what he said. This attempt at confusing you is called "gaslighting." He also seduced my anchor partner (a woman) and after a few months, triangulated us. (She and I will never attempt to "share" a partner again.) He also finally started dating a new to poly MF couple, and triangulated them against each other, and them against me! It was truly sick and villanous, and he got such a kick out of it! I was gobsmacked wondering where the man had gone that was initially so focused on me, so loving, so sexy, so adventurous and kind and calm. It was all an act!

If you and your husband are polyamorists at heart, you won't be able to resist the lure of others. Maybe you'll let crushes die. I am sure this wound will take a long time to heal. I am very poly, but I didn't date anyone for 6 months after breaking up with the Don Juan narcissist.

However, if you read around here, you will find dating individually goes much more easily than attempting quads or triads. Swingers often make the mistake of assuming quads are what poly is. Swap spouses and tada! All is well. But your type of messed up situation is much more common.

Long time couples seems to want to "do this together," which means, find another MF couple (so all is "equal") and have 4way sex, or sex in the same room with each others' spouses (you need to keep an eye on them!), or just having sex in adjoining rooms (where, as you saw, hearing each other just increased the jealousy and suspicion and competition).

Add in being way too blabby about who did what kind of sex how often with whom, is a really big mistake.

So, there's a bad way to do poly, and there are good ways to do poly. Even if you don't attempt finding other loves for a long long time, if ever, reading the book Opening Up, and the book and website More Than Two, should help in the healing process.
 
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