Sex positive/sex negative

Sex positive practices and philosophies

It seems there's a bit of interest around this, so some people thought it might be a good idea to start a new thread with a more focused discussion.

Later this week, I'll be getting certified to teach a sexuality education curriculum for 12-18 year olds. One of the reasons I want to do this is to really promote sex positive ideals in our youth. I've also found as a teacher of autistic kids, being sex positive can be very important and can manifest in some unexpected ways.

One odd way I work to keep a sex positive philosophy has to do with the teenaged boys I work with. Most of these boys are severely autistic and do not understand the difference between public and private. So when they get aroused, they will often just take it out and play with it whenever the fancy strikes. And believe me, the fancy strikes them pretty often, being teenaged boys and all!

It's important that the adults who work with them don't say "no" to them when they do this, because we don't want to teach them that these feelings are wrong. They just need to learn that it's not appropriate in public. So we will always deliberately say "not now" rather than "no" (along with some really focused work on "public" and "private". It's amazing how detailed it can get.)

So there's a little odd way I put sex positive philosophies into practice.

There's a lot more out there. So who wants to talk about sex positive practices, recognizing sex positive attitudes and how to promote more sex positive ideals in society?
 
*puts his hand in the air*
Me! Me!

Seriously, though - I would like to know more about sex-positive practices and behaviours - I think that society, especially US society, is incredibly prudish when it comes to aspects of sexuality, including such things as mixing nudity with sex, depiction of loving relationships on TV, etc.

Someone on a forum I used to be on had a sig line that said something like "We live in a country where it's ok for tv to show someone being kicked in the balls in prime-time, but it's not ok to show someone being kissed on the balls."

I am a firm believer in allowing the individual to explore their own sexuality, within the realms of consensual and safe, believing that neither gender nor sexuality are discrete phenomena. I would love to hear a discussion of the issues at hand and learn.

I find sexuality beautiful and violence abhorrant and feel that we have reversed those values when it comes to "what is acceptable".

Thank you Ceoli and redpepper for bring up this subject and I look forward to the discussion.
 
Ceoli-we use that concept at home.
Little ones (2-4 year olds) often play with themselves. We always tell them, if you want to play with yourself that way it's ok, but it's a bathtub thing, not a livingroom thing to do.
Likewise-playing with a soccer ball is,
it's ok to play with the soccer ball but that's a yard thing to do-not an in the house thing to do.

So the response is the same as if they were playing in ANY way-but addressing appropriate setting.

(in case anyone wonders, the kids sometimes shared bedrooms, that's why we specified the bathtime, we kept that not shared).
 
Yay! A new thread... I find it interesting what you say about your autistic folks Ceoli as we work in similar fields. Well they cross over I guess. We tell our peeps to keep bedroom stuff for the bedroom or keep it for later and for private.

I really find it all very fascinating the sexuality of my clients.. they really are into it in ways that others aren't. I would say more, but perhaps it's too much???? i don't know. I love talking about it... my co-workers say I should of made it my specialty with the population I work with. I love helping them out with it. Quite often they get neglected in terms of sex education. At least here. No one to show them how to use a condom, a vibrator, to masturbate etc. Or how to keep safe with other people sexually, how to say no and to strategize around situations they may be in. I do it all on the fly and have had several people come to me with questions. It is actually the most favorite part of my job. I think that our clients needs in this area are lacking for sure with those more constrained by physical disabilities as they are not able to relieve themselves... this is a huge debate for us in my field and not necessarily for here, but in my world I would be hiring sex trade workers to help out.... and the sex trade would be legal.

As for violence I actually find some circles of sex positive to be rather violent. I am not sure that is the term I would use, but I find the objectification of women to be violent and often there is a blurr between what is empowering to women and what we have been fed by men to believe is empowering but really it is all for them.

I will cut and paste what I wrote on the other thread in case anyone has a comment as I was surprised and disappointed that I got no response. Not that anyone has to, but just in case someone wants to add..
 
post #26 from the sexpositive/sex negative thread

So to get back to sex...

I don't know which way I would fall if I were to identify. So I choose not to at this point. I understand sex positive to mean that expressing ones sexuality is good for everyone and healthy. I understand sex negative to mean that not all porn stars are lovin' the life, that people are exploited because of the pervasive view that our modern sex culture is geared towards male fantasy.

I think that there has been a lot of sex positive stuff out there that has contributed greatly to sex being acceptable to talk about, teach and to practice more freely. Authors such as Carol Queen come to mind.

Sex positive feminists come to mind also such as Susie Bright. She rocks! There is also the fact that sex positive beliefs have made natural child birth and breastfeeding to transgenderism more tolerable in the mainstream and continue to be more so. There is a debate about what sex positive really is amongst feminists that both authors and others examine.

There is some stuff that worries me also such as the development of "raunch culture" or "slut culture." This is where I tend to identify with sex negative. Some sex negative definitions seem very Victorian and old school in terms of sexual expression but some of the beliefs really jive with me. Sex can empower women for sure, but also disempower them. In "raunch culture," women are more objectified and oppressed because the sexuality of women is geared more toward male fantasy than around what female sexual energy and power is... in this way women are not more liberated, rather they are more free to shake their booty for men to see and take advantage of. That to me isn't liberation and we preach this attitude to young girls in advertising, magazines EVERYWHERE in the media and sometimes in their own home and friend environments. Hugh Hefner would not agree with me or sex negative feminists on this one!

It was the definition or "raunch culture" and sex negative attitudes in this way that made me decide not to swing anymore. It went against my kind of feminism. I felt used and ashamed of myself for allowing myself to believe that I had been empowered. I realize that I was in a situation whereby I was not empowered as a woman and that is not every swinging situation... just to clarify, but it had been my experience. It has also been my reading of "raunch culture" that has made me feel a need to be more dominant in my BDSM life. I think I have a need to bring back to myself what I have lost... also to choose a more polyfi relationship with my men and to accept the bounds of that in terms of allowing good men to remind me to remember that my body is sacred and a gift. Not that they own it, but that I should choose carefully who I show it to and share it with. It is precious and should not be shared with everyone, but of whom I choose and for ME as much as them...

I try to remember all this when deciding which events to go to, what situations to be in, who I spend my intimate time with and how I behave in sexually charged social situations and with my loves. I have a very high standard of relationship now, not because I am sex negative or sex positive identified, but because a culmination of the two means they cancel each other out somehow for me. The definitions of them mix together for me. I have taken what I need from each understanding of both.
 
So clearly, my thoughts need to go in this thread. I asked about how your partners' relationships affect you and the more I type over there, the more I realize that a lot of what's bugging me is related to sex and a residual fear of it.

A part of me - the University academic, social justice part of me - wants to wave a flag and celebrate sex positivity.

The other part of me digs my heels into the ground and thinks fearfully that sex should always be done safely and lovingly.

I know that this has gotten me into trouble. Especially because I feel so awful after having casual sex, I end up either avoiding sleeping with people or I end up "falling in love" with people I don't actually want to be in relationship with.

Casual sex feels like an assault to my body. I know this sounds extreme. I look in wonder at people who enjoy sex and don't get all hung up about it and I would love to be like them.

So, I will explore all the juicy pieces of education about sex positivity and hope that maybe I can embody some of them.
 
Casual sex feels like an assault to my body. I know this sounds extreme. I look in wonder at people who enjoy sex and don't get all hung up about it and I would love to be like them.

I tried casual sex and found it lifeless and without meaning or purpose. I also used to look at others who could engage in friendly or random sex and actually got mad at myself for not being able to enjoy it the way they did. I thought I had a problem in not being able to consider it a simple physical activity to be shared and enjoyed with who ever.

Then I realized there was nothing wrong with how it felt for me just like there was nothing wrong for how it felt for them. I don't have "hang ups" or insecurities. I am not abnormal or prudish...I am just me and my approach to sex is just as valid and healthy as everyone else's. It's just different and so I let that go.

How does that affect me in certain situations? A little discomfort in seeing others engage in open sexual activities...it's not my thing for the most part although I have no problem with public nudity at BDSM events and am challenging myself to increase that as it seems to be the environment I have found myself.

It does affect who I would have a relationship with for sure. What my partner does, does have an affect on me. Nothing wrong with that.

Do I judge a little?....sure, I admit that. But I keep it to myself and recognize that judging healthy behaviour is more a product of social conditioning than anything fundamental to my beliefs.

I used to have a much more casual approach to the idea of sex when I was in my marriage and would have heated debates with my ex about how I saw no problem with our daughter experiencing sexuality with who ever and how many others she chose as long as she was in control and healthy.
My opinion changed after my separation and a long journey of self discovery and counselling. My relationship with Redpepper has also changed my relationship with sex and what it means to me personally.
I have become more guarded of my own sexuality for sure. I don't share myself easily.

Am I sex positive?

I accept any healthy practice of sexuality regardless of how different it is from my own. I don't feel the need to understand it or even look at it if I don't want to. I reserve the right to ignore things and people as well as long as my ignorance doesn't impede the rights of others. I accept that others will probably judge me, ignore my own behaviors and in fact ignore me if they chose.

Am I sex positive?

You be the judge...I seriously don't care.
 
A part of me - the University academic, social justice part of me - wants to wave a flag and celebrate sex positivity.

The other part of me digs my heels into the ground and thinks fearfully that sex should always be done safely and lovingly.

I think it's important to note that most sex positive practices and philosophies don't see these things as opposed to each other. I think the key is in what constitutes safe and loving in this context. Many people have different ideas about what that means. So I guess this has me wondering: In the context of sex, what does safe and loving mean to you?
 
There is some stuff that worries me also such as the development of "raunch culture" or "slut culture." This is where I tend to identify with sex negative. Some sex negative definitions seem very Victorian and old school in terms of sexual expression but some of the beliefs really jive with me. Sex can empower women for sure, but also disempower them. In "raunch culture," women are more objectified and oppressed because the sexuality of women is geared more toward male fantasy than around what female sexual energy and power is... in this way women are not more liberated, rather they are more free to shake their booty for men to see and take advantage of. That to me isn't liberation and we preach this attitude to young girls in advertising, magazines EVERYWHERE in the media and sometimes in their own home and friend environments. Hugh Hefner would not agree with me or sex negative feminists on this one!


I don't think many people would say that having issues with raunch culture or slut culture is necessarily sex negative. Sex positivity isn't about saying it's great the everyone can have sex willy-nilly. It's about understanding that sexuality and expressing that sexuality is healthy and that there are a variety of ways to express that sexuality. I've noticed that more and more young women feel that in order to have value, they need to accept being sexually objectified in this culture. Attaching their self-worth to their sexual attractiveness isn't terribly sex positive.

I think swinging runs the gambit on that spectrum. I've seen swing communities and parties that are about embracing sexuality within an open, friendly and accepting atmosphere. These people gather on a set of shared values that bond them together. I've really enjoyed my time in such settings.

I've also been to parties where the atmosphere was misogynistic and pretty unhealthy. One of them was a gathering of the self-professed "sexual elite". As if sexuality was something only reserved for people of a certain size and level of attractiveness according to the magazines. I also found the sex there to be pretty boring and unexciting. And I found a lot of it was about putting on a show...particularly for the women. There are lots of arguments that could be made for saying such a party contains lots of sex-negative elements.

Either way, the practice of swinging isn't sex positive or sex negative in and of itself, it's more about how it's applied in each situation.

The same can be said for any sexual practice, whether it be casual sex, sex within a long term committed relationship, BDSM, pornography, erotica, and the numerous other ways we sexually express ourselves.
 
Either way, the practice of swinging isn't sex positive or sex negative in and of itself, it's more about how it's applied in each situation.

The same can be said for any sexual practice, whether it be casual sex, sex within a long term committed relationship, BDSM, pornography, erotica, and the numerous other ways we sexually express ourselves.
I love this. Very powerful statement that I can totally get behind. It's not the activity itself, per se, that is the problem, but how it is practiced.

Would you agree, Ceoli and others, that although the above holds, certain types of sexual relating are more prone to sex-negativity than others, or do you feel that it is equally prevalent across the board of all types of sexual activity?
 
Would you agree, Ceoli and others, that although the above holds, certain types of sexual relating are more prone to sex-negativity than others, or do you feel that it is equally prevalent across the board of all types of sexual activity?

Hard to say really. I don't have enough info to make that kind of assessment. From what I've seen myself, I've seen that every practice is just as likely to be applied in a sex negative manner as it is likely to be applied in a sex positive manner. I have not noticed certain types of relating to be more prone to sex negativity than others, but my perspective is pretty limited to my own experience.
 
I think the energy and intent of an environment can dictate whether a sexual interaction of almost any nature can be sex positive or sex negative.

It would be hard to point a finger at one activity as opposed to another when considering if certain environments can be more prone to negativity. The sweetest relationship could in fact be the most abusive where as a garish display of BDSM may appear to be more easily manipulated in a negative way simply because of optics.
 
I think the energy and intent of an environment can dictate whether a sexual interaction of almost any nature can be sex positive or sex negative.

Or more importantly, the energy and intent of the people involved.
 
Or more importantly, the energy and intent of the people involved.

Exactly! Eight people could be in the same room and it could actually be a sex positive thing for some and a sex negative thing for others because of the intent of who is interacting....like getting feedback on the same party from two different people. One may have had a great time because it suited their needs whereas the other may have experienced it very differently.
So the qustion in that case becomes one of identifying the essential elements to what constitutes a "good party". Does this seem right or am I babbling?
 
So the qustion in that case becomes one of identifying the essential elements to what constitutes a "good party". Does this seem right or am I babbling?

I don't think that's babbling at all.

Though rather than identifying the essential elements of what makes a "good party" (whether that's referring to an event or a person or group of people), I think it's generally more useful to first recognize one's own needs and attitudes towards sex and then to set forth one's own ideals for how to sexually express themselves and relate to others in a healthy way.

Once those ideals are clarified in one's self, it then becomes pretty easy to recognize the people or events that will contribute to those ideals.
 
I think it's important to note that most sex positive practices and philosophies don't see these things as opposed to each other.

This is very refreshing!!


In the context of sex, what does safe and loving mean to you?

Oh goodie. Well, safe as I define it means using a condom, (unless all people are clean, tested and have agreements with each other, etc), being recently tested, having a discussion about previous sexual encounters.

Safe also means emotionally safe. This is where it gets a little complicated.

One of the things I've learned in NVC is to describe things that are "doable". Saying something like, "feeling safe means having a sense of trust that the person respects me" is not doable and therefore hazy.

The man I slept with who introduced me to poly provided that sense of trust, but I lost it when certain events unfolded. So now, looking back, I no longer feel safe and the sexual experiences he and I had leave a bad taste in my mouth.

Feeling safe and loving does not necessarily exclude spontaneous, one-time encounters either. So, it's not like there are steps one can take to reach a level of trust and care before engaging in sex.

I spent the night with a guy years ago who I didn't know at all and it was a very positive experience. Yet, I feel bad about the sex I had with people I knew for much longer and had a relationship with.


mono said:
I tried casual sex and found it lifeless and without meaning or purpose.

Thanks for expressing this Mono. I'm glad to see you're in a comfortable place in yourself around sex and that you don't care about the labels...

I have very strong ties between sex and spirituality. Sex is often sacred for me. When I'm actually really enjoying sex, I'm completely open. To me, sex is a means of communication. It's a way for me to reach into someone and experience them on a very deep, spiritual, physical, emotional, sensual level....

So, when there isn't that, I feel empty. I don't necessarily need to know the person well. If there's a connection, I go with it.

BUT! But, if and when I later discover something in them that I feel resistance to, I suddenly feel like I've hurt myself by sleeping with them.

Hmm, I'm answering my own question here. LOL!

What I discover in them is probably what needs exploring in me. Which is why I feel grossed out afterwards... hmm...
 
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Hard to say really. I don't have enough info to make that kind of assessment. From what I've seen myself, I've seen that every practice is just as likely to be applied in a sex negative manner as it is likely to be applied in a sex positive manner. I have not noticed certain types of relating to be more prone to sex negativity than others, but my perspective is pretty limited to my own experience.

Yes, I would say it's hard to say too. That is why I struggle to define myself in terms of one or the other. It's also a word thing for me too. Sex negative sounds well,.... negative. I am not liking the word. It sounds too extreme. Very Victorian as I mentioned in my last post.

I guess I would say that a lot of what I have experienced about being open and swinging to me was sex negative. Mostly in what was going on for those in their lives that were involved... feelings of not getting their needs met in their own relationships, feelings of lack of self worth, feelings of instant gratification regardless of who they were with and what was going on for them. Some people come out okay with that... they say it works for them... I don't and it doesn't for me.

I find that a lot of sex based activities are based on a quick and dirty release for some people. Lets fuck and get off no matter what the cost to anyone else around us or ourselves... to prove something somehow. It stands to reason as our culture has become so fast at dealing with everything these days and I see this as no different. I think our culture misses a lot of subtlties because it moves too fast.

I just wonder what kind of toll it has on youth. Maybe I am just a slow old lady that hasn't caught up with the times, or maybe there are reprocussions for some and not others... or maybe none at all. I just have noticed in my own life the rise of younger people with sedintary lives who stay at home rather than go out and hang with friends, of people with social anxiety, much more on-line life rather than real life. All this to me is taking a toll on people in some way. It kind of seems to glamorize some and separates them from others while not taking care of useful skills such as getting to know someone or a group(social skills), learning how to communicate in real life (when I say real life I am referring to face time... I realize to some on-line life is real life), taking care of oneself (going inward to get our needs met), appreciating our bodies and others as sacred rather than objectivying them or others and being down on them when they are not perfection. It's like the divide between healthy and not is widening somehow.

Really it is all individual. What happens for one person in any situation is different from another persons perspective. It's the same as any situation in life. The difference for me is that sexual activity is quite often very powerful in ways we don't realize until after or during. Having someone enter my body is very powerful, having them see intimate details about my body and how I present myself in an aroused situation is very powerful. I am concerned about this because I think that often this power is scoffed at, covered up with alcohol and drugs at different events and the meaning behind sexual encounters is lost until later when our bodies remind us or we repeat back in our head some of the emotional content on being entered both literally and figuratively... (I'm speaking from a female perspective as it's the only one I know. I wonder if men feel differently?) I would suggest that for some there is some trauma sometimes in the form of feelings of self worth... then on top of it we are preached to by media etc.. that we should suck it up and that what we did was nothing.

I think I'm off on a tangent. Please bear with me,,, this is a big topic for me and I get very excited about it... :) in a good way that is... so much juice to it.

Also bear with the fact that i have no spell check on this computer and my spelling skills suck... will edit later.
 
Once those ideals are clarified in one's self, it then becomes pretty easy to recognize the people or events that will contribute to those ideals.

Very important! I can't stress that enough either! Still, one has to start somewhere and then sork back sometimes.
 
Exactly! Eight people could be in the same room and it could actually be a sex positive thing for some and a sex negative thing for others because of the intent of who is interacting....like getting feedback on the same party from two different people. One may have had a great time because it suited their needs whereas the other may have experienced it very differently.
So the qustion in that case becomes one of identifying the essential elements to what constitutes a "good party". Does this seem right or am I babbling?

With any and all due respect, you are "babbling". If you hadn't explicitly mentioned that, I'd have simply thought you were "digressing".

Identifying what constitutes a "good party" is well beyond the scope of whether something is "sex-positive" or not.
 
With any and all due respect, you are "babbling". If you hadn't explicitly mentioned that, I'd have simply thought you were "digressing".

Identifying what constitutes a "good party" is well beyond the scope of whether something is "sex-positive" or not.

Interesting take..I'll file that away :)
 
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